Ricky Rubio --- FIBA

L

LookingAround

G-League
#1
#1
I don't know how to explain for non-Europeans the meaning of a games between Real Barcelona.

Saying like Kings vs Lakers won't be enough. Because politics involved here (the Spanish - Catalan issue), the sport in Europe taken more siriously and less as a show, each game more important because of the system, in Europe there are a few (4-5) powerhouses and Real and Barca are two of them.

Anyway, Ricky gave a performance this evening at Madrid. It was so pleasure to watch!
Here a summery from the ACB official site:
http://acbtv.acb.com/video/2362

So different kind of player from Evens.
 
Tetsujin

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#2
#2
Wow. It was hard to focus on the highlights with that music in the background. In another mundane note, that has got to be among the worst color schemes for a jersey of all time. Red, blue, and yellow make for eye vomit. I didn't think it was possible to make our "Royal Gold" jerseys look good but apparently I was wrong.

This Rubio kid looks pretty good. Since Evans is a scrub we should cut our losses and package him with K-Mart, Greene, our 1st for next year, Omri, JT, any future draft picks we have in the coming decade, and Paul Westphal and send them all to Minni for Rubio and Reggie Theus since we all know that a real point guard is all we need to succeed and since we didn't give Reggie a fair shake the first time around. I'm not sure but I think that the cash works out pretty fair.

In all seriousness, it's nice to see that Ricky finally had a reasonably good game to (kinda) silence the critics. I'm still not sure how well he'd be able to play defense or contribute in the NBA however.
 
L

LookingAround

G-League
#3
#3
He is having a good season also before this game. He just usually don't score so much as he has so many grate scorers around him and he is there first of all to organize the game and make the passes, what he does very well.
He is the first PG at the best team at Europe- the best defense and the best offence, that by now crashes almost every big opponent including at the road games.
 
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drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#4
#4
What critics? Critics from his stats are really really ridiculous, FIBA has different rules the lack of 3s rule in D is another world in scoring stats, assists are counted more strictly.

He's being very solid this season and he had an incredible game yesterday. 18 points in FIBA is like around 36 in the NBA. And I think this Barcelona can easily beat a lot of mid-level NBA teams right now.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#5
#5
drboiffard said:
What critics? Critics from his stats are really really ridiculous, FIBA has different rules the lack of 3s rule in D is another world in scoring stats, assists are counted more strictly.

He's being very solid this season and he had an incredible game yesterday. 18 points in FIBA is like around 36 in the NBA. And I think this Barcelona can easily beat a lot of mid-level NBA teams right now.
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WHOP Whop whop wowowow. You sir are giving FAR TOO MUCH credit to international basketball.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#6
#6
Pre-emptive warning: I can see where this thread is headed. Here's the deal:

KEEP IT CIVIL!!! If you want to argue the merits of FIBA vs. NBA basketball, feel free to do so but KEEP IT CIVIL!!! At the first sign of problems, name-calling, insults, personal attacks, sarcasm, etc. - something we had to experience once before and will not allow to be repeated - the thread is going to be closed.

This is hopefully a word to the wise.
 
drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#7
#7
You sir are giving FAR TOO MUCH credit to international basketball.
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Well, I don't want to make a big discussion here, but if you think the best team in Europe can't beat some NBA teams I think it's you who are overrating NBA level. There's more on rules difference than on real quality difference. We're not in the early 90's anymore....
 
L

LookingAround

G-League
#8
#8
drboiffard said:
Well, I don't want to make a big discussion here, but if you think the best team in Europe can't beat some NBA teams I think it's you who are overrating NBA level. There's more on rules difference than on real quality difference. We're not in the early 90's anymore....
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Now this off-topic, but if we both agree about what you say here, why do you want Sergio to stay at the NBA??

Wouldn't you want to have Sergio at Estodiantes at least for the next game? ;)
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#9
#9
drboiffard said:
Well, I don't want to make a big discussion here, but if you think the best team in Europe can't beat some NBA teams I think it's you who are overrating NBA level. There's more on rules difference than on real quality difference. We're not in the early 90's anymore....
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IMHO, The best Euroleague teams can beat even solid NBA teams UNDER Fiba rules. I remember that CSKA just destroyed the Clippers with Kaman, Davis, Maggette, Brand couple years ago in Moscow (the game was played under FIBA rules) and after that they loss to the 76ers badly in Köln (the game was played under NBA rules). So, I am with drboiffard on that.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#12
#12
drboiffard said:
Well, I don't want to make a big discussion here, but if you think the best team in Europe can't beat some NBA teams I think it's you who are overrating NBA level. There's more on rules difference than on real quality difference. We're not in the early 90's anymore....
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It isnt the early 90's. Its 2010, almost. The world has gotten better, much better. Be that as it may there is still a large gap.
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#13
#13
Chupacabra said:
It isnt the early 90's. Its 2010, almost. The world has gotten better, much better. Be that as it may there is still a large gap.
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5-8 years ago the US with all its superstars could not beat many European countries in basketball. So, a large gap is a very muddy definition. I do not think we can actually measure it now.
 
drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#15
#15
I think not. He surely supports Tenerife, the most important team in Canary Islands, where he comes from. And he wrote in his last post in his blog some good words for Pedrito, who is from Canary Islands like him and plays in Barcelona. He played in Estudiantes, where the anti-madrididism (WTF translation) is almost as big as in Barcelona. I don't think he cares about Real Madrid. But I don't know surely
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#16
#16
drboiffard said:
I think not. He surely supports Tenerife, the most important team in Canary Islands, where he comes from. And he wrote in his last post in his blog some good words for Pedrito, who is from Canary Islands like him and plays in Barcelona. He played in Estudiantes, where the anti-madrididism (WTF translation) is almost as big as in Barcelona. I don't think he cares about Real Madrid. But I don't know surely
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Anti-madrididis?? :) ... Estudiantes is located in Madrid, isn't it?
 
drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#17
#17
Yeah we hate Real Madrid as the big, dirty and rich team that everyone supports only because wins a lot, because it's a easy team to support. And they win a lot because of having more money than anyone. It's like hating the Lakers being a Clippers or even a Kings fan.

In Basketball is even worse, because they have a lot of money from the soccer.Estudiantes started as a school team, is the club in the area who has a lot of junior categories and develops the players... Real Madrid uses money from soccer to pick up stars and even with incredible teams they usually don't have many people supporting them in the court. In the other hand we develop young players and support basketball from junior categories. Sergio debuted with 17 here, there are always people with really low age in the roster..

Every Real Madrid - Estudiantes is like David vs. Goliath.
 
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drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#18
#18
In Barcelona is more of the same, DKV Jouventut (where Ricky and Rudy were developed) usually puts the talent development and Barcelona gets the money from soccer to buy it... But Even Barcelona has better basketball junior teams than Real Madrid. Real Madrid hasn't basketball culture, they only spend money earned in the soccer to have a competitive ACB team. True basketball fans usually support DKV and Estudiantes in Barcelona and Madrid, Barça and Real Madrid fans are usually soccer fans that also likes basketball.
 
L

LookingAround

G-League
#19
#19
drboiffard said:
In Barcelona is more of the same, DKV Jouventut (where Ricky and Rudy were developed) usually puts the talent development and Barcelona gets the money from soccer to buy it... But Even Barcelona has better basketball junior teams than Real Madrid. Real Madrid hasn't basketball culture, they only spend money earned in the soccer to have a competitive ACB team. True basketball fans usually support DKV and Estudiantes in Barcelona and Madrid, Barça and Real Madrid fans are usually soccer fans that also likes basketball.
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Why "even Barcelona"?
Barcelona has a descent junior club in any standards. The Gasols grown there, at the last Spanish U20 team Rabaceda and the center that I forgot his name where from Barcelona's junior club.
In football most of Brcelona's stars have grown at the junior club (and even on Israeli young player has grown there)
 
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BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#20
#20
Honestly, I almost want to puke when I hear serenades about how Barcelona is a good honest club that relies on its local guys and compete against rich and powerful Real "the dark side of the force" Madrid.

Yes, now Barcelona has a lot of home-grown guys but they have also many expensive foreign superstars including their best best player who is not a home-grown boy.

And just several years ago, Barcelona had more Dutch players than Ajax and their 2 home-grown boys were auxiliary players. Everybody criticized them because they were so anti-Spanish and Real Madrid with Vicente del Bosque was a patriotic example.
 
drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#21
#21
I don't agree, Messi is relatively home-grown, he was picked up as a kid and played in junior categories from Barca. He wasn't bought as a superstar. Both teams buy expensive players from outside, of course, but Barcelona cares a lot more about giving players opportunities. I don't remember when was the last kid from a younger team was upped into the first team. In Barcelona they let minutes to Bojan, Pedrito... while Real Madrid sends Granero to Sevilla after recovering him only a couple of weeks in summer. And well, if we talk about basketball...it's worse.

BTW Estudiantes beat Real Madrid. One of the best matches I've seen at Madrid Arena. A 3-pointer from 9m to the time-out, a 3-pointer to win the match. Amazing
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#22
#22
Yes, Messi is not an outsider but still he is a questionable home-grown boy .. 50/50 I would say.

And again, now Barca has a lot of local talent but it is not in their nature. BUT, as I said, just several years ago that team was a foreign corporation in Catalonia with no local flavor AT ALL!!!! and somehow Barca fans do not wanna talk about that.

At least Real Madrid relied on Spanish players more.
 
drboiffard

drboiffard

Bench
#23
#23
Of course, I'm not telling this always have been like this. But during the last 10 years Real Madrid hasn't put any confidence in young players from their lower teams, they always try to upgrade the team with mediatic players. Iker Casillas is the last great player from the RM school, and he debuted 10 years ago. That's exactly the oppositte that Barcelona has done, developing and giving confidence to people like Xavi, Iniesta, Pique, Pujol, Bojan...

Anyway, I don't see it as if they were oppossite philosophies, they're not as different: they both have insane quantities of money and they use it.
 
N

Nikefutbolero

Guest
#24
#24
drboiffard said:
I don't dislike Tyreke and that was a joke. It'd be beautiful to see "competing" Omri and Tyreke for #1, anyway.

I won't talk for other europeans here, but although I like NBA a lot, I don't buy the NBA starsystem and my devotion to the franchise player isn't almost religious as many fans. I'll never understand it at Tyreke's team, I'll understand it as the Kings. In FIBA basketball there are no starsystem and I personally don't like it very much in the NBA. I like it more seing Brockman giving it all than seeing Kobe making 30 points by throwing every ball in every possesion.
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Lol, "starsystem" in FIBA..They need to to have stars in order to have a "starsystem"..
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#26
#26
Nikefutbolero said:
Lol, "starsystem" in FIBA..They need to to have stars in order to have a "starsystem"..
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It is not what he said .. you can always make "stars" on any roster and allow them to be the players. He said that European teams are not build around one or two players marketing-wise or stardom-wise, no matter how good they are. Of course, every team has players that are better but nobody worship them as gods. You do not see stuff like "no fouls for Kobes or LeBrons", "only superstar must have your last shot just because he is a superstar", "star players are bigger than coaches".

And about a starsystem ... A big group of mega-superstars from Team USA had so many problems against the Spaniards last time in China .. so I guess it means that either Team USA had no stars or there are some good players on the other side also.
 
N

Nikefutbolero

Guest
#27
#27
BritishColumbia said:
It is not what he said .. you can always make "stars" on any roster and allow them to be the players. He said that European teams are not build around one or two players marketing-wise or stardom-wise, no matter how good they are. Of course, every team has players that are better but nobody worship them as gods. You do not see stuff like "no fouls for Kobes or LeBrons", "only superstar must have your last shot just because he is a superstar", "star players are bigger than coaches".

And about a starsystem ... A big group of mega-superstars from Team USA had so many problems against the Spaniards last time in China .. so I guess it means that either Team USA had no stars or there are some good players on the other side also.
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Of course they don't build around one or two players on Eurpoean teams because they don't have superstar quality basketball players. You mean to tell me that if some european team had a player like Lebron or Kobe they wouldn't build a team around them and treat them like gods? Come on, be real. The reason it doesn't happen is because they don't have that type of players.

As far as your second paragraph is concerned, the most valuable players on that team play in the NBA. Don't turn this into USA vs. Spain. We're talking about NBA and Euro basketball.
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#28
#28
Nikefutbolero said:
Of course they don't build around one or two players on Eurpoean teams because they don't have superstar quality basketball players. You mean to tell me that if some european team had a player like Lebron or Kobe they wouldn't build a team around them and treat them like gods? Come on, be real. The reason it doesn't happen is because they don't have that type of players.
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Europe has its own superstars, at least by European standards. I do not know whether you really follow European basketball or not but if you do, you should remember many teams with very good players that we were above everybody else. For example, Jugoplastika with Kukoc and Radja. May be they were not mega stars by NBA standards, but in Europe they were like Kobe or LeBron. They were great individually but they played the system and did not have any "special Gretzky treatment".

Nikefutbolero said:
As far as your second paragraph is concerned, the most valuable players on that team play in the NBA. Don't turn this into USA vs. Spain. We're talking about NBA and Euro basketball.
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Yes, because many members of that team play in Europe. I guess you forgot that only Gasol was a legitimate NBAer on that team. Navarro was on his way back to Europe and Calderon did not play.
 
Chupacabra

Chupacabra

Starter
#29
#29
BritishColumbia said:
5-8 years ago the US with all its superstars could not beat many European countries in basketball. So, a large gap is a very muddy definition. I do not think we can actually measure it now.
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It is a sizeable amount of space that separates USA basketball from the rest of the world. Case in point, USA's best players beat the rest of the worlds best players by 27.5 points each game on average During the 2008 olympics. That includes pummeling Greece by 23, Spain by 37, and Argentina by 20. The closest any team came to beating the USA was Spain, who lost by 11. Team USA never lost nor did they allow any team within double digits. That my international friend is called being head and shoulders better than everyone else.
 
BritishColumbia

BritishColumbia

Bench
#30
#30
Chupacabra said:
It is a sizeable amount of space that separates USA basketball from the rest of the world. Case in point, USA's best players beat the rest of the worlds best players by 27.5 points each game on average During the 2008 olympics. That includes pummeling Greece by 23, Spain by 37, and Argentina by 20. The closest any team came to beating the USA was Spain, who lost by 11. Team USA never lost nor did they allow any team within double digits. That my international friend is called being head and shoulders better than everyone else.
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And how about WC 2004, WC 2006, Olympics 2004, my international friend??

Team USA is the best team, no doubts .. but there is no "head and shoulders better than everyone else" difference anymore. It was 15 years ago; not anymore. That's why we can see so many non-American players playing in NBA. And you can say the same about NBA. Even though most Europeans stars play in NBA, Euro league teams are capable of beating NBA ones and we can see it almost every year during exhibition games series. Is NBA better? Of course. That much better? Not anymore. I am 100% sure that CSKA or Panathinaikos could have beaten the Kings last year (under FIBA rules). The Lakers can beat any team in Europe by 50 points but mediocre and bad NBA teams can be beaten by best Euro clubs.
 
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