[Rumor] Raptors interested in Malik Monk

Capt. Factorial said:
Sure, but he's a step down from Domas.

At any rate, I think I've been pretty consistent on this but I'll say it again: trading Domas means FULL TEARDOWN AND REBUILD. There is no "suddenly we're a playoff team", and there is no "let's try for the play-in", it's full tank full time.

And in that case, Poeltl doesn't really do much for us other than fill a spot in the starting lineup for a year before he opts out of Basketball Hell. All we really have left is the supporting cast for a good team (Keegan, Keon, maybe Carter) and good luck on keeping those guys until we're relevant again.

We'd get the #9 this year, where the can't-miss guys are already gone and we'd really be looking to get a solid-rotation-maybe-starter type. That's not even that great of a pick! Then two more picks that end up probably being junk because we made the Raptors good. This is digging a hole for the sake of digging a hole.

My strong preference, especially since we have time on his deal, is to take another shot at building around Domas, who is the best player we've had in a very long time. See if Perry/Doug can figure it out. Look at Domas as the anchor and Zach as the sparkplug, trade Monk and DDR to build a defensive core around them, figure out how to get one more offensive piece (maybe that's Keegan Unleashed, maybe there's another route) and see if it works. If it doesn't, fine, we can still trade Domas and get...get that much back two years from now.

But if we're dead set on trading Domas, we absolutely need a better package than that. I know a lot of people don't want to hear it, but in terms of impact Domas was a top-10 player in the league last year and he's under contract at a decent price for three years. That's a damn goldmine, and if we're full tank, we need to get like two very good young controllable players and 4-5 picks that could hit. We need the kind of package OKC can give us, not the kind of package Toronto can give us. Because if we're going to tank, we need to set ourselves up to rise again, not set ourselves up to keep on tankin'.
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We also might not want to hear it but Domas more than likely isn't getting superstar packages either. The chatter has even come up about it. He's a center who doesn't anchor a defense which is already going to mean for a lot of teams he's a non starter trade wise. If they could get that kind of pick haul and some serviceable players that's a pretty good deal in the end. I agree though, starting over around LaVine and Domas or running it back to see what a training camp does is a decent option. Augmenting the team that includes rebuild value going out is still too risky.
 
iowamcnabb said:
I just don’t get why Ham is completely ready to write off Carter after 30 games that he barely played in. That whole crew is guilty of that actually. Pitch and moan about defense for the last few years and then want to ship out one of the few guys that could be elite on that end
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The rookies on this team have been scapegoat for awhile now. They've been conditioned by Sacramento constantly ruining almost any and all potential the last 15 years or so. I still think people should venture over to youtube and check out Papa G. He's a man now, and looks like a rotation NBA player to me. They ditched him before he even worked off his baby fat. He was a freaking kid.
 
See_Hanks said:
Why? Why are people always wanting to rebuild the entire core. We don't need to do that. Domas is very adaptable to whatever we do. Why couldn't he play with a new slough of players while remaining as part of the core? I don't get why people always want to rebuild everything. If we rebuild we will have at least 3 seasons of 20-30 wins unless we get lucky like San Antonio.

Right now if we keep Domas and LaVine we have two pieces that can shoot, rebound and pass the ball (and hit 3pt shots over 40%). Why trade that away for picks or players that are inferior?
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The question isn't as much that as it is whether he's amenable to whatever they do. It might have sounded like more than it is, but Domas is now questioning the organization and if he becomes Fox pt. 2 with demands on how they shape the roster then this could get sticky. He's not the level of someone you do that with. Not if Fox wasn't. And thank goodness they didn't do that. Fox wanted Monte to dump more youth and picks to get a "wing".
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Yes, we may have at least 3 seasons of 20-30 wins if we rebuild. But, if we rebuild right, we will follow those 3 seasons of 20-30 wins with many more seasons of 50-60 wins.

The path we're currently on right now may never lead us to more than maybe 2-3 seasons of 50-60 wins before we're all back here talking about what needs to be done to improve the roster.
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The team won't have any money to compete in this scenario when the arena is less than half full for the 3 seasons.
 
SacTownKid said:
We also might not want to hear it but Domas more than likely isn't getting superstar packages either. The chatter has even come up about it. He's a center who doesn't anchor a defense which is already going to mean for a lot of teams he's a non starter trade wise. If they could get that kind of pick haul and some serviceable players that's a pretty good deal in the end. I agree though, starting over around LaVine and Domas or running it back to see what a training camp does is a decent option. Augmenting the team that includes rebuild value going out is still too risky.
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Here's another point, Domas makes too much to not get valued players in return. You cant just trade him for picks so the team would still be in the same boat floating with the play in.
 
Section 101 said:
Here's another point, Domas makes too much to not get valued players in return. You cant just trade him for picks so the team would still be in the same boat floating with the play in.
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This isn’t true if you’re selling off domas you only have Lavine as a viable creator we’d be bottom five with how difficult the west is. Sabonis for a Toronto or Portland package doesn’t keep us in the same position assuming you’d send RJ to a third team.
 
Joshyjosh31 said:
This isn’t true if you’re selling off domas you only have Lavine as a viable creator we’d be bottom five with how difficult the west is. Sabonis for a Toronto or Portland package doesn’t keep us in the same position assuming you’d send RJ to a third team.
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We are more or less bottom five in the west right now. The problem is the East is so freaking bad that means nothing in terms of draft unless you win the lotto. At least Domas (currently) is a good culture guy. It's important to have that if you are trying to build your young guys. Fox on a bad team is a bad culture guy. Domas showed up and instantly things changed. Unfortunately we decided to give the keys to the bad culture guy and when things didn't look so rosey he bailed on us.

I don't know that I believe the reports that Domas is now poison. They seem to come from Fox favoring people. If it's actually true and he doesn't want to build something here I am far more amenable to shipping him.
 
Section 101 said:
The team won't have any money to compete in this scenario when the arena is less than half full for the 3 seasons.
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I'm sure they'll be fine for 3 seasons once they realize how much will be coming in once the arena is close to, if not at or over, capacity over the 5+ seasons that will follow.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
I'm sure they'll be fine for 3 seasons once they realize how much will be coming in once the arena is close to, if not at or over, capacity over the 5+ seasons that will follow.
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I'm not privy to NBA books but the money to operate the team I am pretty sure comes from TV revenue. anything generated from attendance probably goes to the ownership, but I would be they make a nice chunk of change even at 3/4 capacity.

All of that said, for all Vivek's faults, I think he wants to build a winner here. It's just harder than expected. It's too bad the beam team excitement couldn't have lasted 4-5 years so that he could actually see when it ended the benefits to quickly resetting. In my heart of hearts I still feel like we had a chance to build on something and blew it.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
I'm not privy to NBA books but the money to operate the team I am pretty sure comes from TV revenue. anything generated from attendance probably goes to the ownership, but I would be they make a nice chunk of change even at 3/4 capacity.

All of that said, for all Vivek's faults, I think he wants to build a winner here. It's just harder than expected. It's too bad the beam team excitement couldn't have lasted 4-5 years so that he could actually see when it ended the benefits to quickly resetting. In my heart of hearts I still feel like we had a chance to build on something and blew it.
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That was kind of what I was trying to get at, but indirectly...The fact that we'll be fine even if G1C operates at 3/4 capacity on average. It will still bring in enough revenue to keep the engines rolling for the foreseeable future.

To your last point, yes, I agree, we had something special going on and we did blow it. The least we can ask for and hope for is that Vivek has learned from his mistakes and won't make any of them again. Until he actually shows that he has, though, at least when speaking for myself, I am going to assume that the guy hasn't learned squat.

But, as I've said in the past, and let me reiterate that this might be somewhat of a biased approach seeing that I, myself, am Indian, I am willing to give Vivek a chance to prove me wrong.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
That was kind of what I was trying to get at, but indirectly...The fact that we'll be fine even if G1C operates at 3/4 capacity on average. It will still bring in enough revenue to keep the engines rolling for the foreseeable future.

To your last point, yes, I agree, we had something special going on and we did blow it. The least we can ask for and hope for is that Vivek has learned from his mistakes and won't make any of them again. Until he actually shows that he has, though, at least when speaking for myself, I am going to assume that the guy hasn't learned squat.

But, as I've said in the past, and let me reiterate that this might be somewhat of a biased approach seeing that I, myself, am Indian, I am willing to give Vivek a chance to prove me wrong.
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To the extent that Vivek is too involved I still blame Monte for the dip from season one to season two. Deebo, Zach, if he drove those it was already too late.

The biggest knock that the anti-Vivek people have is that Vivek is too cheap to pay Siakam and that's why we moved on but I am pretty sure it was Siakam that said flat out he would not re-sign at any cost.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
To the extent that Vivek is too involved I still blame Monte for the dip from season one to season two.
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I think an argument could be made we really didn’t take a dip year 2. We had way more injuries at critical times, missed a ton of critical free throws down the stretch and played in an even tougher conference than the year before. All that resulted in 2 less wins. I’d say we panicked, changed the offense, changed the defense, replaced a spacer with an iso guy ( I was in favor of bringing in Deebo so I was wrong as well) and then everything fell apart after that. We also started year three as one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league while simultaneously being the worst 3 point defensive team. One of the biggest problems is Monte didn’t really have enough assets to make a move, at least not one that would have made a big difference (and he has to shoulder some or most of the blame for that)

So the question is, what would have happened if we had just been patient? I don’t know
 
What position would Monk play in Toronto? I am looking at their current roster, and it seems they need both a starting point guard (if Quickly is traded) and a starting shooting guard. The current backup SG is Ja'Kobe Walker, a rookie who only played 52 games, while the current backup PG is Jamal Snead, also a rookie, drafted at 42 a year ago.
 
Caccia said:
What position would Monk play in Toronto? I am looking at their current roster, and it seems they need both a starting point guard (if Quickly is traded) and a starting shooting guard. The current backup SG is Ja'Kobe Walker, a rookie who only played 52 games, while the current backup PG is Jamal Snead, also a rookie, drafted at 42 a year ago.
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I assume they see him as the super sub type guy he was in his first two years with us. Not sure what they would be willing to give up in a trade for that though.
 
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iowamcnabb said:
I assume they see him as the super sub type guy he was in his first two years with us. Not sure what they would be willing to give up in a trade for that though.
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The thing is, neither of the guys I mentioned is a superlative starter at this early point in his career. Gradey Dick might start at shooting guard, instead. Toronto would do better starting a veteran like Monk at point guard to complement Brandon Ingram. I think it differs from team to team what they need. Valančiūnas would no doubt love to return to Toronto, perhaps even finish his career there.
 
Caccia said:
The thing is, neither of the guys I mentioned is a superlative starter at this early point in his career. Gradey Dick might start at shooting guard, instead. Toronto would do better starting a veteran like Monk at point guard to complement Brandon Ingram. I think it differs from team to team what they need. Valančiūnas would no doubt love to return to Toronto, perhaps even finish his career there.
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Well I assume IQ is the starting point guard unless you are suggesting he is coming back in a Monk deal.
 
iowamcnabb said:
I think an argument could be made we really didn’t take a dip year 2. We had way more injuries at critical times, missed a ton of critical free throws down the stretch and played in an even tougher conference than the year before. All that resulted in 2 less wins. I’d say we panicked, changed the offense, changed the defense, replaced a spacer with an iso guy ( I was in favor of bringing in Deebo so I was wrong as well) and then everything fell apart after that. We also started year three as one of the worst 3 point shooting teams in the league while simultaneously being the worst 3 point defensive team. One of the biggest problems is Monte didn’t really have enough assets to make a move, at least not one that would have made a big difference (and he has to shoulder some or most of the blame for that)

So the question is, what would have happened if we had just been patient? I don’t know
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I'll concede all of that so maybe "dip" isn't the right word but holy hell, 2022-23 we were fun to watch win or lose. Watching games in year 2 was a slog. And stuff like that Portland game after Christmas was just unacceptable, I am pretty sure we were healthy for that. For all of the good under Brown the team never held home court like they should have either.

I guess what I really meant was we should have added meaningfully to the team, I was rooting for Sasha, but the other pickups we made in Y2 were lateral moves at best and arguably downgrades. I was fine to re-sign HB on a value renewal but everybody knew that was probably a point of emphasis along with having a legitimate backup for Domas. We never got the upgrade on HB and eventually forced Keegan there, emphasizing our weakness in the paint, and never got the reliable backup for Domas until JV. JV certainly had to have been available in some form or another for months.

In my mind, our failure to upgrade meaningfully was either Monte's alone or Monte + Brown. I'll concede Vivek may drive the decision to bring in name players that he thinks can sell tickets, but I would be shocked if he's making the calls on bench players or even who the 5th starter is.
 
QWERTYLICIOUS said:
Yes, we may have at least 3 seasons of 20-30 wins if we rebuild. But, if we rebuild right, we will follow those 3 seasons of 20-30 wins with many more seasons of 50-60 wins.

The path we're currently on right now may never lead us to more than maybe 2-3 seasons of 50-60 wins before we're all back here talking about what needs to be done to improve the roster.
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You really think this group could go ~20 games over .500 because that is what a 50 win team needs to do. In an west with OKC, Houston, Denver, GoldenState, Lakers, Minnesota, Dallas, San Antonio ……

It’s hard to imagine us with a significant winning record against that group. This team is locked into the 9-10 spot for at least next year.
 
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