Question about the draft pick we owe Cleveland...

[Anthony1]

For the Kings to keep their 2013 draft pick, what is the lowest that the Kings could select and still keep their pick ?


For example, if we are top 12 protected (I can't remember what it is for 2013), then could we offer a trade to another team for our first round pick, but have them know that they ONLY get the pick if we are in the top 12, and if we aren't in the top 12, that pick goes to Cleveland, and they get nothing.


Obviously, it would be taking a huge risk, but you have to think that many teams around the league would expect the Kings to still be drafting in the first 12 picks next year.

 

[Gilles]

Yes, it's acceptable to give the other part of pick protection to another team. It's just not done for the same reason there is protection in the first place.

 

[Section 101]

Yes, it's acceptable to give the other part of pick protection to another team. It's just not done for the same reason there is protection in the first place.

Incorrect. You cannot trade #1 picks 2 years in a row. So as long as there is a chance the pick goes to Cleveland the next year than this years cannot be traded.

 

[bajaden]

Incorrect. You cannot trade #1 picks 2 years in a row. So as long as there is a chance the pick goes to Cleveland the next year than this years cannot be traded.

Thats my understanding of the rule as well. The Kings are sort of stuck as to trading 1st round picks until the pick they owe Cleveland is resolved. I believe the pick is top 13 protected next year. Now if the Kings were to aquire another first round pick, they could just go ahead and let Cleveland use the pick if they wanted to.

 

[IfAt1st]

This whole scenario rankles me still.

It's baffling to me (and scary) that the Kings can give up (not only) a first-round draft pick, but also (at the time) still a promising young player, for a guy who chose to simply not play hard here - someone who obviously has some skills but chose to just dog it every game until the Kings had to waive him.

But to make it extra baffling - this conditional draft pick (which sounded good at the time, providing some protection to the Kings) turns out to be a straightjacket, restricting trade movement to the franchise for YEARS to come.

Whoever the hell was involved in that trade needs to be gone from trading for the Kings forever.

Smeagol : "Leave... and never come back!"

 

[King Baller]

Yes Omri is soooo promising C'mon the Kings kept their pick this year and will every year until the deal with Cleveland is fulfilled. The way I look at is the Kings will keep drafting until they are good, then Cleveland gets the pick.

Still, like you I wish the deal was never done. I just don't think it matters much at this point.

KB

 

[Gilles]

Incorrect. You cannot trade #1 picks 2 years in a row. So as long as there is a chance the pick goes to Cleveland the next year than this years cannot be traded.

Yeah, you're right. Didn't think of that scenario.

 

[bajaden]

This whole scenario rankles me still.

It's baffling to me (and scary) that the Kings can give up (not only) a first-round draft pick, but also (at the time) still a promising young player, for a guy who chose to simply not play hard here - someone who obviously has some skills but chose to just dog it every game until the Kings had to waive him.

But to make it extra baffling - this conditional draft pick (which sounded good at the time, providing some protection to the Kings) turns out to be a straightjacket, restricting trade movement to the franchise for YEARS to come.

Whoever the hell was involved in that trade needs to be gone from trading for the Kings forever.

Smeagol : "Leave... and never come back!"

My precious, I want my precious!

 

[Dreadnought]

It was a bad trade in retrospect, but to be fully honest, it becomes a 2nd round draft pick in 2017, and the pessimist in me doesn't see us making the playoffs until then anyway.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It was a bad trade in retrospect, but to be fully honest, it becomes a 2nd round draft pick in 2017, and the pessimist in me doesn't see us making the playoffs until then anyway.

If we go another five seasons without making the playoffs given the core that we've built, we'll have a lot more problems than keeping a first-round draft pick will be able to solve.

 

[Dreadnought]

If we go another five seasons without making the playoffs given the core that we've built, we'll have a lot more problems than keeping a first-round draft pick will be able to solve.

I'm not sure this core can get it done. If we are doing the OKC type of rebuild, Durant and Westbrook were stars by now. I'm as stoked as anyone that Demarcus is improving, but by this time, Durant won his first scoring championship. Just not feeling this crew

 

[IfAt1st]

I'm not sure this core can get it done. If we are doing the OKC type of rebuild, Durant and Westbrook were stars by now. I'm as stoked as anyone that Demarcus is improving, but by this time, Durant won his first scoring championship. Just not feeling this crew

LOL

Yeah, I'd really expect the OKC comparisons/projections/patterning to stop this year. It's becoming laughable.

For a comparison to be remotely valid, there has to be SOME similarity between the teams (including coaching and FO).

 

[bajaden]

I'm not sure this core can get it done. If we are doing the OKC type of rebuild, Durant and Westbrook were stars by now. I'm as stoked as anyone that Demarcus is improving, but by this time, Durant won his first scoring championship. Just not feeling this crew

Not to nic pic, but Durant didn't win the scoring title until his third year in the league, averaging 30 pts a game. Cousins just finished his second season. However, Durant did win rookie of the year. What made his scoring title a little different, is that he was the youngest player in the NBA to ever win the scoring title.

One could also argue that Cousins and Tyreke have reached semi-star status. You have to glow a little brighter to be noticed in Sacramento. Put either of them in LA or New York, and you'd be amazed how much better they'd be. The other way to be recognized as a star, is for your team to win. Something that the Thunder have accomplished.

 

[kingjatt]

Not to nic pic, but Durant didn't win the scoring title until his third year in the league, averaging 30 pts a game. Cousins just finished his second season. However, Durant did win rookie of the year. What made his scoring title a little different, is that he was the youngest player in the NBA to ever win the scoring title.

One could also argue that Cousins and Tyreke have reached semi-star status. You have to glow a little brighter to be noticed in Sacramento. Put either of them in LA or New York, and you'd be amazed how much better they'd be. The other way to be recognized as a star, is for your team to win. Something that the Thunder have accomplished.

I wouldnt go that far just yet, they just have the best individual skill set on a mostly terrible roster, yeah they would get more play in LA or NYC but durant and westbrook were/are shining in a much smaller market in OKC.

 

[Section 101]

Not to nic pic, but Durant didn't win the scoring title until his third year in the league, averaging 30 pts a game. Cousins just finished his second season. However, Durant did win rookie of the year. What made his scoring title a little different, is that he was the youngest player in the NBA to ever win the scoring title.

One could also argue that Cousins and Tyreke have reached semi-star status. You have to glow a little brighter to be noticed in Sacramento. Put either of them in LA or New York, and you'd be amazed how much better they'd be. The other way to be recognized as a star, is for your team to win. Something that the Thunder have accomplished.

Cuz has Evans hasn't. I know alot don't like PER. But consider it the NFL passer rating of the NBA. Ya the stats may not mean much, but the better players are always at the top. First step at least get a season with a PER over 20.

 

[bajaden]

Cuz has Evans hasn't. I know alot don't like PER. But consider it the NFL passer rating of the NBA. Ya the stats may not mean much, but the better players are always at the top. First step at least get a season with a PER over 20.

Which is why I use the term, semi-stars. Not quite there yet. What I fiind interesting is how people have this entirely different perception of Westbrook than I do. His scoring averages are almost similar to Tyreke's, and in many ways, both are similar players in how they score the ball. The defining difference is Westbrooks mid-range game, which is excellent. But he's a lousy 3pt shooter just like Tyreke is. You can argue that he logs more assists than Tyreke, but I could argue that he has better scorers to pass to. Of course none of this really matters. The Thunder are the better team, and they have more talent. And thats the bottom line.

 

[Gilles]

People get caught in team situation and ignore the fact that Tyreke has the same skillset as Westbrook except he doesn't have any sort of mid-range game or perimeter game of Durant next to him to open up the middle.

 

[DesertFox]

People get caught in team situation and ignore the fact that Tyreke has the same skillset as Westbrook except he doesn't have any sort of mid-range game or perimeter game of Durant next to him to open up the middle.

Tyreke is a terrible outside shooter who has stopped taking 3's. Westbrook was a terrible outside shooter, but has turned himself into a mediocre one.
Evans also doesn't get to the line at the rate he once did, so Westbrook has him on that too.

Evans has a size advantage that he should be able to utilize, but now that he's not going to see time at the 1 it's a moot point anyway. Westbrook is a couple notches above Reke at this stage, and it's hard to see that changing much with the way the Kings are handling this roster.

 

[bajaden]

Tyreke is a terrible outside shooter who has stopped taking 3's. Westbrook was a terrible outside shooter, but has turned himself into a mediocre one.
Evans also doesn't get to the line at the rate he once did, so Westbrook has him on that too.

Evans has a size advantage that he should be able to utilize, but now that he's not going to see time at the 1 it's a moot point anyway. Westbrook is a couple notches above Reke at this stage, and it's hard to see that changing much with the way the Kings are handling this roster.

Once again, not to nic pic, but Westbrook has some very good 3pt shooters on his team that open up the floor for him. I guess your idea of mediocre and mine are a little different. Westbrook shot around 31% from the three, which in my mind is poor. Mediocre to me is more around 34 to 35 percent. Decent is around 37 to 38 percent, and good is anything at or above 40%. So at this point, I'd call Tyreke lousy, and Westbrook poor.

However, Tyreke took less 3pt'ers last season, averaging around 1.5 a game, with the rest of his offense being at the basket, and mid-range. His overall shooting percentage is almost identical as Westbrooks. He only averaged 1 less assist a game than Westbrook, and averaged 16 pts a game. If everyone's opinion wasn't being filtered through his rookie season, most would think he had a good season despite the changing of positions, a new headcoach, etc.

The main thing that seperates Westbrook from Tyreke is his mid-range game, which is one of the best in the league. If Tyreke can come in this year with a good mid-range game, there really won't be a lot of difference between the two, other than the teammates that surround them.

 

[Dreadnought]

Not to nic pic, but Durant didn't win the scoring title until his third year in the league, averaging 30 pts a game. Cousins just finished his second season. However, Durant did win rookie of the year. What made his scoring title a little different, is that he was the youngest player in the NBA to ever win the scoring title.

One could also argue that Cousins and Tyreke have reached semi-star status. You have to glow a little brighter to be noticed in Sacramento. Put either of them in LA or New York, and you'd be amazed how much better they'd be. The other way to be recognized as a star, is for your team to win. Something that the Thunder have accomplished.

Completely agree, and all your points are backed up by sound facts.

But we're still a really terrible team that I don't see making the playoffs in the near future.

 

[King Baller]

Once again, not to nic pic, but Westbrook has some very good 3pt shooters on his team that open up the floor for him. I guess your idea of mediocre and mine are a little different. Westbrook shot around 31% from the three, which in my mind is poor. Mediocre to me is more around 34 to 35 percent. Decent is around 37 to 38 percent, and good is anything at or above 40%. So at this point, I'd call Tyreke lousy, and Westbrook poor.

However, Tyreke took less 3pt'ers last season, averaging around 1.5 a game, with the rest of his offense being at the basket, and mid-range. His overall shooting percentage is almost identical as Westbrooks. He only averaged 1 less assist a game than Westbrook, and averaged 16 pts a game. If everyone's opinion wasn't being filtered through his rookie season, most would think he had a good season despite the changing of positions, a new headcoach, etc.

The main thing that seperates Westbrook from Tyreke is his mid-range game, which is one of the best in the league. If Tyreke can come in this year with a good mid-range game, there really won't be a lot of difference between the two, other than the teammates that surround them.

Are you suggesting that Kevin Durant and James Harden make their team mates better?

KB

 

[King Baller]

Once again, not to nic pic, but Westbrook has some very good 3pt shooters on his team that open up the floor for him. I guess your idea of mediocre and mine are a little different. Westbrook shot around 31% from the three, which in my mind is poor. Mediocre to me is more around 34 to 35 percent. Decent is around 37 to 38 percent, and good is anything at or above 40%. So at this point, I'd call Tyreke lousy, and Westbrook poor.

However, Tyreke took less 3pt'ers last season, averaging around 1.5 a game, with the rest of his offense being at the basket, and mid-range. His overall shooting percentage is almost identical as Westbrooks. He only averaged 1 less assist a game than Westbrook, and averaged 16 pts a game. If everyone's opinion wasn't being filtered through his rookie season, most would think he had a good season despite the changing of positions, a new headcoach, etc.

The main thing that seperates Westbrook from Tyreke is his mid-range game, which is one of the best in the league. If Tyreke can come in this year with a good mid-range game, there really won't be a lot of difference between the two, other than the teammates that surround them.

I have to agree that Tyreke being successful as a starting 2 guard can make a incredible difference in the Kings. If he can score reliably out to mid-range that opens up the court. Also starting Tyreke at the 2 and JJ at the 3 improves the defense of the starting unit. I have high hopes of the Kings improving to a .500 record.

KB