Promise/Potential

[Prime13]

I'd like to go through each player on the Kings and share my evaluations. I'm not seeing these two terms that most of the fans like to toss out there. I feel there's a few too many "Positive Dave's" out there.

Tyreke Evans- I'm really confused on Tyreke. There seems to be a regression with him. He still fades on every jumper. I think he forces the issue at times, but has to with the lack of talent around him. He seems like a front-runner to me, when the shots are going early and he's getting his plays....you see the Defense and all around game increase. If not, he pouts doesn't hustle, jacks up trash and becomes a liability. He needs a coach to discipline the hell out of him. I think he could be a really good 3rd option on a very good team, 2nd option on a decent team. Not high enough basketball IQ and skills to be a franchise player

Jason Thompson- No touch, No basketball IQ, still thinks hes never committed a foul. Maybe a 4th big on a decent team. Tries hard, but can't overcome his glaring lack of talent

Donte Greene- Gotta be a reason why this guy is always one of the last off the bench his whole career. Waste of potential. He seems way past the point of suddenly figuring it out

John Salmons- Horrendous. Can't shoot, won't pass, and suddenly can't defend. Body language of a zombie, here to cash checks

Francisco Garcia- Should be a cheerleader, he loves hugging the other team and butt slapping the officials. One of Petrie's awful extensions.

JJ Hickson- The Cavs front office is just as bad as the Kings for not trading this guy for Amare Stoudamire. Good energy guy off the bench, nowhere near a starter in this league. Has horrible hands, a below average jumper....however very good leaper

IT- Should be a solid backup PG in the league. Great feel for the game for a rookie, I'd like to see him definitely stick around

Travis Outlaw- Has completely lost his game, kind of speechless at what he's become his last couple years

Jimmer- I'm confused on him as well. He's a seasoned player who is limited athletically. So I feel he can't get much better on Defense. He's average at creating for himself and others. He needs to be ran off more screens. I don't ever see him being more than a 9-12 pt guy a night.

Chuck Hayes- Is 100 percent NOT a starter in this league. He's a 20 minute guy off the bench to guard the best teams big. He's a really good role player and sticks to what he knows best. Rebound, cover and hustle.

Marcus Thornton- He's a really good scorer when he's on. Not a playmaker for others. Loves having the ball in the clutch. Hopefully he can evolve his game a little more.

Tyler Honeycutt- Incomplete, maybe a 9th or 10th guy.

Demarcus Cousins- Big body, good natural instinct for rebounding. Needs dramatic help in his attitude and post moves. He has no opposite hand, and gets his shot blocked way too much for how wide and long he is. I don't think you can build a franchise around him, but you could definitely run a lot of offense through him with his above average passing and mid range game.


So for long term quality starters you have Tyreke and Cousins
Sixth Man-Thornton
Role Players- IT, Jimmer, Hayes, and maybe Hickson
Guys who should be working at the snack bar- Garcia, JT, Donte, Outlaw, Salmons, Honeycutt


Overall, I just don't see any hope for this team until they change ownership and can go out and spend some money. Most of these guys flat out just don't have any game. No game and no heart, leads to 11 losses already by 13 or more points

 

[IfAt1st]

Careful.

Pointing out how this team lacks quality NBA starters is "not worth responding to", "shows how little you know about the NBA", and is considered to be nothing more than a troll, regardless of how many observations about each player you include.

 

[SacTownKid]

Here's the tricky thing about "role" players that if you don't know from the get you'll never understand. Their value to a team or the interpretation as to whether or not they are a "starter" in this league depends entirely on who they are there to flank and what your needs are based around your best players. If it were not the case, guys like Udonis Haslem, Robert Horry, Bruce Bowen, and many, many more wouldn't have started on championship teams.

 

[UK_King]

Got to give it time, haven't been able to watch the last few games, but i expected some ugly defeats.

Just got a new coach, hardly any true coaching time, team wide shooting slumps, old habits die hard.

Gonna have to just wait it out... again.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Careful.

Pointing out how this team lacks quality NBA starters is "not worth responding to", "shows how little you know about the NBA", and is considered to be nothing more than a troll, regardless of how many observations about each player you include.

Haha, so true. It's pretty much the case on this forum that if you don't perpetuate the delusions of others, you'll be promptly "put in your place".

The reason for that is that we have a lot of what I call “false positives” around here. They’re false positives because if they were truly positive, they wouldn’t be so easily upset by dissenting views. If they were really secure in their outlook, they wouldn’t be so easily threatened by those who criticize the team.

Basically, they don’t want you clouding their rose colored glasses because then they’d have to face the same stark reality that the rest of us see. They’re content to ignore that the Kings are nowhere near being a playoff team in the foreseeable future, haven’t had an all star in nearly a decade, haven’t had a true franchise player since Webber, haven’t had a real coach since Adlemen, have five or six guys getting significant minutes on the team who literally would be garbage time players on a good team, etc. etc. and they don't want you reminding them of those things.

 

[Arkitect]

First of all there is a huge difference between "Blank is terrible and should not be in the NBA" vs. "Blank has these problems with their game". One is an inaccurate exaggeration and the other is constructive criticism. I have been around here a while and have noticed that the posters in group A are the ones who tend to be put in their place while the posters in group B tend to be treated just fine since they are not being intentionally inflammatory. And that is all I am going to say about that.


Anyway, I agree with most of OP's assessment and in particular with our role players. One of our biggest problems is that we don't have decent ones. If one of our main guys gets hurt or has a bad game, no one is there to fill the void. Also, without 2 of our main 3 averaging 20 points a game with the 3rd one in the high teens we are not going to win many games. Our main guys will at some point need to step up for us to be competitive.

I do disagree with the idea that DMC and Reke are never going to get better. They are not going to fundamentally alter who they are as players, but they can certainly improve the skills they have. DMC is already miles ahead of where every other big man currently in the league was at this point in their career. He is better offensively and as a rebounder than either Gasol, Bynum, and Dwight compared to those guys at 22. Which is why I think he can be a franchise guy once he matures a little bit more.

Evans is a little more difficult to evaluate. He has some obvious weaknesses(shooting, hardly uses the left) but he also improved in many areas(running the break, passing off the dribble drive, man defense). He would not be the first NBA player to vastly improve his shooting and ability to use the left around the rim. Players add that kind of thing constantly. It may not happen as quickly as we would like, but their is no reason to think he won't improve those areas of his game in the near future.

 

[JoMama]

Team DOES have too many role players starting. Cousins has great potential as a legit starter in the NBA. Tyreke is a legit starter but not a leader or close to a franchise player. Every time he shoots from 15 feet and beyond I want to scream "NO!" Usually I'm right. Lately, he's misses more layups than my Aunt Gertie. His basketball IQ is below 50. He defends well and can rebound when he wants.
Hayes, Thornton, Salmons and JT are role players on a decent team. All should be trade bait. Keep Jimmer (off-the-bench instant offense) and Thomas (decent backup point guard with quickness).
Petrie needs to rearrange the furniture a bit or hit the road. This team is a major embarrassment - even at home. Last night was pathetic.

 

[Section 101]

Jason Thompson- No touch, No basketball IQ, still thinks hes never committed a foul. Maybe a 4th big on a decent team. Tries hard, but can't overcome his glaring lack of talent

Donte Greene- Gotta be a reason why this guy is always one of the last off the bench his whole career. Waste of potential. He seems way past the point of suddenly figuring it out

Demarcus Cousins- Big body, good natural instinct for rebounding. Needs dramatic help in his attitude and post moves. He has no opposite hand, and gets his shot blocked way too much for how wide and long he is. I don't think you can build a franchise around him, but you could definitely run a lot of offense through him with his above average passing and mid range game.

JT has really improved around the basket this year. He's slowed down not rushing his moves and now he's making them a lot more. He is still best suited as a big off the bench getting 20-30 mins.

Donte is not even close to past the point. He is 23 years old. He's played 3 years in the league. If he played 4 years in college this would be his rookie year. This is also the same point that Gerald Wallace moved on to the Bobcats. It still took him 2 more years of getting consistent play time to become the player he is now.

If you can't see the improvement in Cuz then I don't know what to say. He has improved tremendously with his attitude. His post moves will come in time. It takes big men 4+ years to get their moves down. He is well ahead of the curve. And once again he is 21 years old and already a top center in the league.

 

[VF21]

Careful.

Pointing out how this team lacks quality NBA starters is "not worth responding to", "shows how little you know about the NBA", and is considered to be nothing more than a troll, regardless of how many observations about each player you include.

Grow up. The OP has brought up some interesting points without insults, sarcasm, etc. You stirring the pot is what could be considered trollish, not his post.

 

[ESP47]

I don't know where people get the notion that Cousins is a great passer. The guy has made a few great passes mixed in with a ton of bad ones. That doesn't make you a great passer. Anyone can get lucky with some sweet moves once in a while. Hell, I'm a terrible basketball player myself but even I make some crazy stuff once in a while. I'm not saying he'll never be a good passer but he hasn't even shown any signs of being one.

Thompson is a 3rd or 4th big but he's definitely not hurting our team. He's not even close to being our problem.

Donte is a terrible shooter, yet half his shots are 3 pointers. There is a problem there. I've seen him go to work in the post on rare occassion and the crazy thing is, he looked great. Had decent moves and a nice touch at the basket. Too bad he's tried to emulate his game around Cisco.

The problem is movement. If we pass the ball around 5 times on one possession and everyone is covered, that means they are all just standing in the same spot. There's a reason why no one on this team is ever open. They just have no idea what to do when they don't have the ball.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

First of all there is a huge difference between "Blank is terrible and should not be in the NBA" vs. "Blank has these problems with their game". One is an inaccurate exaggeration and the other is constructive criticism. I have been around here a while and have noticed that the posters in group A are the ones who tend to be put in their place while the posters in group B tend to be treated just fine since they are not being intentionally inflammatory. And that is all I am going to say about that.

Yes. In other words, it's not the message, it's the messenger. Evaluate the following statements, both of which deliver the same message:

I'm afraid I have some bad news for you - it appears that your mother has passed away.

Hey, jerk! I was supposed to tell you your mom just keeled over. What are you going to do, cry about it? Sheesh! I told you LAST YEAR the old biddy was on her way out. Yep, looks like I was right again, sucker! I don't understand why you're getting angry at me! What, I'm not allowed to deliver you news? It's your mother, after all.

It's quite obvious to us all that this team needs fixing. We've done plenty of discussing and even arguing about it in the vein of the former with no issues. It's the latter that is causing the issues by being intentionally provocative.

 

[Gilles]

Regarding Tyreke and his struggles I refer you to the career of Kyle Lowry. By his 3rd year he's started to look like a bust. No improvement in game or production whatsoever. He got traded and continued to suck that season and then another. He was still offered a full MLE by Cleveland and Houston matched. I don't know whether he decided to work really hard the summer before last or not but he came and started hitting those 3s. Now he's flirting with TD every night. Lowry came into this league after sophomore season in college, not freshman. Lowry had to work for more playing time and to have any future in the League but to Tyreke everything was given right from the start and without any accountability. Now there seems to be both accountability and desire to work on his game. Just give him time at least till the end of his rookie contract.

 

[JB_kings]

Not for nothing... but this year is just not the greatest year to be a very young team with bare minimum practice time and an in-season change of the coach. Sure the front office made some blunders on trades and the Maloofs look they Check Into Cash's best customer. The losses have been frequent, huge and frustrating.

Most similar situations you would want to take a sledge to the panic button. But just ride this out because I think we have a good coach who is trying to instill the right environment to win. The pieces aren't matching, but there is some talent there and it's not a complete blow up situation. The crazy road schedule has taken a big toll here on the team.

Promise and Potential need another P word to see some payoff - Patience.