It's one thing to identify that the team needs Fox to reach that next level, it's another to help him do it. 'Holding Fox accountable' via press conference may have reassured some fans that Brown gets it, that he is the right coach, but that, combined with whatever else Brown was doing behind the scenes, did not equal on court improvement. I'm not really in a pro Fox mood, but Brown got fired and his star player took a nap.
Poll: Coach Brown's firing
- Thread starter RoyalDiva
- Start date
Siranthony
Starter
What it looks like to me is our best player has been corrupted. Threw games at his agents direction. So the front office did exactly what they wanted and fired the coach. Bring back Brown and show them they can't get away with corrupting the game.
reptilexcq2
Bench
Wow, Brown got fired? LOL. I haven't been watching the Kings for a few weeks now...just because they're hard to watch and the things I see on the court is disappointing, make me want to turn off the TV...players giving up basket too easy on the other end. It doesn't seem like a Mike Brown team that play defense. Do I think firing Mike Brown is justified? If I known that the Kings would fire Mike Brown, I would have kept Jordi Fernandez and will make him the head coach. As I said before awhile ago, Mike Brown sucks at substitution. I don't question his coaching and his desire to bring the best out of the players...IT'S THE BEST. But it's the substitution, knowing when and at which situation to put in players on the court to give the team the best chance to win and I think he's horrible at that. It's a like a chess match but Mike Brown doesn't seem to play chess...he likes to gamble, take risk with small lineups, ect., (I guess he inherited from the time he's with Golden States). But you can't do it with this Kings lineup. They just don't have the players to play defense...they're weak at multiple positions. But still there are times, he could have played chess and put in the best players on the court to be successful at crucial juncture in the game. The reason I mentioned Jordi is that at one time he get to coach the team due to Mike Brown being ill...I get a glimpse of his substitution and I was like wow, this guy really don't give the other team a chance to chill...holy crap, that's WHAT I wanted as a head coach! That's the difference between him and Brown...Brown will probably sub out players that play well after we're up by double digits or rest them longer time than need to be...or didn't put a particular player in to nullify what the other team put in...it's just things like that that bother me. Also, I don't agree that Monk should be in the starting lineup...he doesn't play defense and thus make the team overall defense weaker. Sure, he provide another offensive weapon, but there is just one ball to go around and we already have so much option to play with...having him come off the bench give us a better offensive weapon to play with than to burn one in the starting lineup. I think starting Monk is just a desperate attempt by Brown to make things work. But again, I just don't think he is good at substitution.
Not to put everything on Brown, but I think the players is the ultimate responsible for the losing streaks. It doesn't help that we have multiple players injured and disrupt the flow of winning at the beginning of the season and it kind of snow ball after that. There are players on this team..as talented as they are...also NOT SMART. What do I mean by that? They would make the dumbest foul at the most crucial time when we need a stop and instead they would foul them and put them at the line to allow them to either tie or take the lead. If you're smart player, you would know...okay we have 30 seconds, we're in foul trouble...so we can't foul them and just need a stop and if we do that, we can win...but these players DON'T THINK...they even play aggressive as if they didn't know the team is in foul trouble...how stupid is that? I am talking about talented players like FOX and Monk.
Not to put everything on Brown, but I think the players is the ultimate responsible for the losing streaks. It doesn't help that we have multiple players injured and disrupt the flow of winning at the beginning of the season and it kind of snow ball after that. There are players on this team..as talented as they are...also NOT SMART. What do I mean by that? They would make the dumbest foul at the most crucial time when we need a stop and instead they would foul them and put them at the line to allow them to either tie or take the lead. If you're smart player, you would know...okay we have 30 seconds, we're in foul trouble...so we can't foul them and just need a stop and if we do that, we can win...but these players DON'T THINK...they even play aggressive as if they didn't know the team is in foul trouble...how stupid is that? I am talking about talented players like FOX and Monk.
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Vinny Basketballerino
Starter
I give him credit for that, and always have. He changed the culture.
He was not capable of taking a team to those elite levels. It's a hard job.
Should have fired him sooner so we could have gotten Fernandez, but in reality probably were not able to for political and perception reasons, this start gave them the justification.
Christie seems like he could be a really interesting option. My guess is he'll finish out the season and we'll take it from there.
This is the SECOND time Brown has been fired a year (ish) after winning COY... that's a pattern.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Who knows what Doug does but from day 1, anybody making bets on a rookie Devin Carter playing big minutes for Brown likely loses. Not with that history.
GWD
Bench
Generally agree but it was odd and out of character to put as much trust in Keegan as he showed in his and Keegan's first season together It continued the second and third season as well. Quite the exception.
Caccia
Starter
"That team has plenty of talent," one source with knowledge of the team said. "The roster is fine. They had to make a change."
I agree with that assessment. And as we all know, the coach is usually the first to go.
The roster, I thought, was fine but as the season goes on, you see the deficiencies in certain matchups. Getting asses kicked by the Lakers who are big and outphysical us. Maybe this team is better suited to beat, say long teams now with Derozan but they have no shot against big physical.
I did mention in another thread, I think the rift was between Monte and Brown and Monte trying to tell him who to play.
1. I refuse to believe Brown lost the team
2. I still think Klutch is/was a problem
3. Monte did Brown dirty by firing him AND how he fired him
4. Just like when Malone got fired, Its going to take me awhile to get back on board because both coaches are good and our GM ****ed it up
5. Still think Fox needs to go….not a leader, heck of a player when he wants to be but for $60M per, that is a hard no
6. I’m now siding with the Monte has to go crowd
7. Christie literally needs to become our version of Kerr( I despise him but he won) but Fox doesn’t have a killer instinct….its a problem
8. Vivek is not clear of this, he signed off on this. He’s adverse to stability.
9. Pray that Carter is special because dealing Fox would bring the most assets in a retool, not a rebuild, but a retooling of roster
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Dwayne Casey won a COY and literally got crapcanned like a week later. the Raptors then went on to win a ring the next season with Nick freaking Nurse as their head coach.
Dude, Brown has been relatively successful for 2 years and then 30 games into this year, amid struggles, that’s enough to go into a different direction? I don’t get it at all. Dumb.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
Had we just not witnessed the last month of Mike Brown floundering with different lineups and complaining about the team not doing what he wanted them in every single press conference, I’d absolutely agree with you but by somewhere around the end of the first Lakers loss in the homestand it felt pretty clear to me that Mike had lost the team
!Anne that how you feel but not everyone feels that way
He (and some of the players) have flat out said the players weren't doing what they were asked.
I like Mike Brown. No coach survives this start except Pop and Jackson. Maybe Spoelstra under Riley (ok I guess him too? And sure Red while I name the GOATs, but that never happened to my knowledge).
I like Mike Brown. No coach survives this start except Pop and Jackson. Maybe Spoelstra under Riley (ok I guess him too? And sure Red while I name the GOATs, but that never happened to my knowledge).
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
They don't win without trading for a prime Kawhi Leonard. The head coach had next to nothing to do with it
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It's possible to have plenty of talent in general, but not enough size, talent, and iQ in the right places to gel a winning roster
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
Lou Williams says he heard Brown asking DeRozan to come off the bench was a catalyst.
Williams and DeMar are close friends so I suspect that his source is likely DeRozan himself or somebody in their circle.
Fox re-tweeted the video and while not directly confirming that this was a big reason, he almost seemed to present it as vindication that he had nothing to do with Brown’s firing.
That’s unfortunate because I really think the final shakeup the Kings can make that will give us a different look is bringing DeMar off the bench but this seems to suggest that this if off the table with extreme prejudice.
Williams and DeMar are close friends so I suspect that his source is likely DeRozan himself or somebody in their circle.
Fox re-tweeted the video and while not directly confirming that this was a big reason, he almost seemed to present it as vindication that he had nothing to do with Brown’s firing.
That’s unfortunate because I really think the final shakeup the Kings can make that will give us a different look is bringing DeMar off the bench but this seems to suggest that this if off the table with extreme prejudice.
I mean we still haven't tried putting the low USG, elite shooting, elite defending SG for 30+ minutes with our starters consistently either. And while the 5-man data is small, it's overwhelmingly dominant in those minutes.
The problem we likely have now though is that by pulling the Monk starting lever, does that create ANOTHER problem is Christie goes to Keon and Monk back to the bench?
Just an absolute mess. I think if Christie really wanted to stand out though, he'd fully invest playing time in our younger guys (Keon/Carter/I Jones/Icraw) as potential defensive role players to put around the offensive hubs. Would take some serious conviction from him though to get those guys in over Huerter/Lyles/Monk (not playing time demotion, just back to bench for Monk) though. Would he gamble potentially his only opportunity at a NBA HC gig on it?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And Kings fans know what this is. It's exacly that, floundering. Regardless of the cause. When you start rolling out those magic 8 ball rotations you're toast. It just is what it is.
Nurse's TLC was just what the doctor ordered.
1) The NBA is chock full of guys with too much ego to put the good of the team ahead of the desires of the player
2) We have to deal with the world we live in, not the world we wish we lived in
3) We had a rare (for us) opportunity to add a [talent + ego] combo, and decided (probably correctly) the addition was a net positive
4) We broke down and allowed a high-ego player who had been coming off the bench to start, setting a precedent we now can't break
5) Now we have four must-start players, and the consequence of starting all four is that we are small at all four of those positions - i.e. we can't bring in a full-size SF and move DDR to the SG where he would be of appropriate size because we can't move Monk off
6) Welp.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Where is the idea coming from that Monk can't be moved back to his 6th man role? Why would those who decide not be willing to do that, if they thought the team would be better for it?
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
I think they can easily push Monk back to the bench. I still think the issue is more so the minutes increase and playing him at the end of games honestly. Not necessarily just because of him, but because of the team makeup. The Kings problems this year weren't the starts, it was the finish. Prior to Monk starting I think the Kings were putting up around 30 ppg in first quarters. It's being 28th-30th in the clutch that's killing them this year. That and the 3 point defense of course which plays into it when you look at teams putting up some of these 7-11 from 3 type shooting numbers in 4th quarters.
If there was a thing that made the team wonky with DeRozan it was that finishing lineup. The Kings now have 4 mouths to feed at the end of the game, 3 players needing to run pick and roll, and only 1 person out there for defensive purposes. It wasn't going to matter who Brown pushed to the bench, or brought off, we know who the final 5 in games was always going to be. That's why putting Monk in there as a starter did nothing and why perhaps his minutes getting a boost is an overall negative. The stats show Monk with the other 4 is a bigger negative than both Huerter and Keon for the 2nd year in a row. Now, that's not to say with a change in approach that can't flip, or even in smaller sample outlooks it doesn't from time to time, but at some point, you can either defend or not. It looks like the Kings indeed need that or at least should be looking at it as an answer. Monk gambles as much on defense as he does on offense and when it goes bad, it goes BAD. The West is too tough to be gambling like that. In theory you could find defenders to put next to Monk but then it's a question of who is a more prime talent, Monk or DeRozan? I think the answer is pretty clear on that one.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
It's why I posted before the season started, that I would close with Keon over Monk sometimes, depending on situation and score.
Sometimes politics and making decisions based on contracts, or which guy is going to bark the loudest if he's not happy, hurts your win/loss record
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And the truth is, that might have not made a difference, but yeah, why not try? The Kings simply might not have the chemistry, talent, health, etc. to be in that top tier. One things for sure though, Brown went all offense in those clutch moments and went out preaching offense after the Kings were smashed on defense.
sactowndog
All-Star
This highlights the problem. The roster is not fine. The are small and lack and ability to defend longer players. The fact they insist it is is why I voted no.
The problem is the GM not the coach.
Maybe Vivek will retire and let his daughter run the team. It can’t get worse.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
or not retire and make his daughter the GM,....who then hires Lindsay Harding as head coach. The ultimate series of popcorn moves
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