Pierce's patience running out / #5 pick

k1037

Prospect
It sounds like the Celtics are fairly desperate. What are the chances that Ainge would bite on a trade involving Bibby, Artest, or even Miller?

Also of interest is the note about Yi.

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Pierce's patience running out

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
June 25, 2007


As much as Boston Celtics general manager Danny Ainge wanted a bigger return for Al Jefferson and the No. 5 pick in the flat-lined, four-team blockbuster trade proposal that died on Monday, little was done for the franchise's trampled image when Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal turned out to be one more star privately disclosing disdain over the prospects of playing for the Celtics.

First, it was Phoenix's Shawn Marion insisting that he didn't want to go to Boston.

Then it was Minnesota's Kevin Garnett.

And now it's O'Neal.

Here's the problem for Ainge: According to a league executive, Paul Pierce has finally told team management that unless the Celtics come out of this week with a talented veteran co-star for him, they should expect him to make a public declaration soon after Thursday's draft that he wants a trade.

"Danny is under tremendous pressure, from inside and outside, to get a deal for someone done this week," one league executive said.

As hard as the Celtics, Pacers, Timberwolves and Lakers worked on the collapsed deal that would've sent Kevin Garnett to Los Angeles, Boston and Indiana couldn't come to terms with what they were to receive. The Pacers were uncomfortable with Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom without minimally the Lakers' pick at 19, just as the Celtics believed they had to get more back for sending Jefferson, the emerging forward, and the fifth pick to Minnesota.

There was some belief that Pierce was going to demand a trade upon his return from a wrist injury during the regular season, when the bottom fell out of Boston's season with 17 straight losses. He didn't do it.

Ainge and Doc Rivers traveled to Phoenix on Monday night for a shared workout with the Suns that included Florida's Joakim Noah and Corey Brewer and Georgetown's Jeff Green on Tuesday. If Ainge has to pick one of those players – never mind China's Yi Jianlian – it appears that Pierce will soon let him know that he's not interested in the painstaking process of watching the kid develop beside him.

THREE'S TOO MUCH FOR CONLEY
In a lot of ways, the NBA draft doesn't start until the Atlanta Hawks make their choice at No. 3. Whatever the public pressure to take a point guard, rest assured this: They won't be drafting Mike Conley Jr. that high.

After watching him toss brick after brick in Monday's workout with Al Horford and Noah, Atlanta officials had no reason to re-visit a decision they made weeks ago. It isn't that they're not intrigued with Conley, but forget making him the third overall selection. In fact, the Hawks are hoping that if Conley slips past Memphis at No. 4 and Minnesota at No. 7, he will drop down to them at No. 11.

If Conley doesn't make it that far, several league sources said Billy Knight's infatuation with Luke Ridnour will result with the 11th pick being traded to Seattle for the Sonics point guard.

"A lot of the staff there likes Acie Law," one rival executive said, "but Billy has never been sold."

For now, Horford, the 6-foot-10 forward, is expected to be Atlanta's choice at No. 3, but the Hawks will be entertaining trade offers through Thursday's draft. One trade possibility that was discussed but never came together, two league sources said, was Golden State's suggestion that point guard Monta Ellis could be available in a package for the third overall choice.

The Warriors are believed to be intrigued with drafting Yi and are still running scenarios past lottery teams with the hopes of moving up from No. 19.

MORE PREDRAFT CHATTER
• The Chicago Bulls are bringing 7-footer Spencer Hawes back to Chicago on Tuesday for a second visit, two league sources said, inspiring belief that they're committed to taking him with the ninth pick. Hawes is a back-to-the-basket center with offensive skills who complements the Bulls' vast perimeter talent. Still, it will be hard to pass up Noah if he's still available at No. 9 for Chicago. "That kid was born to play for Skiles," one Eastern Conference executive said.

New Orleans Hornets general manager Jeff Bower has spent a great deal of time researching Georgia Tech freshman Thaddeus Young and could be a surprise pick over USC's Nick Young at No. 13.

• The New Jersey Nets are thinking long and hard about the baggage of Boston College's Sean Williams, the shot-blocking center with a history as a headcase. Remember, Nets executive Rod Thorn was an assistant coach on the Nets' ABA championship team with B.C. coach Al Skinner as a young point guard. Skinner, a straight shooter, will give Thorn his honest appraisal of the junior he threw off the team last season. The Nets are considering Glen "Big Baby" Davis but aren't sure there's enough upside with him to justify choosing Davis over Williams or Duke's Josh McRoberts.

• Javaris Crittenton, the freshman out of Georgia Tech, has impressed with his athleticism and long point guard frame at 6-5, but said one Western Conference G.M.: "Like a lot of young point guards, he dribbles way too much never really going anywhere." Still, Crittenton could go as high as No. 14 to the Los Angeles Clippers, who need to start thinking past the shredded knee of Shaun Livingston.

Adrian Wojnarowski is the national NBA columnist for Yahoo! Sports. Send Adrian a question or comment for potential use in a future column or webcast.

 
Oh, poor Pauly Pierce wants a trade. Maybe he and Kobe and the other malcontents can form their own league. Only 14 guys a year get a ring. The rest, no matter how good they are, just have to stand there and watch... and sometimes watch for their entire careers like John Stockton.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Paul Pierces of the NBA. They're living a life less than 100 people A YEAR get a chance at (meaning the number of new players coming into the league) to begin with. And they're paid obscene amounts of money to play a bleeping game.

Shut up and play, Pierce.
 
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Nice to see you're still nursing that grudge, nbrans. Using special fertilizer, are you?

:rolleyes:
 
It sounds like the Celtics are fairly desperate. What are the chances that Ainge would bite on a trade involving Bibby, Artest, or even Miller?

Also of interest is the note about Yi.

------------

Pierce's patience running out

By Adrian Wojnarowski, Yahoo! Sports
June 25, 2007





As much as Boston Celtics general manager Danny Ainge wanted a bigger return for Al Jefferson and the No. 5 pick in the flat-lined, four-team blockbuster trade proposal that died on Monday, little was done for the franchise's trampled image when Indiana's Jermaine O'Neal turned out to be one more star privately disclosing disdain over the prospects of playing for the Celtics.

First, it was Phoenix's Shawn Marion insisting that he didn't want to go to Boston.

Then it was Minnesota's Kevin Garnett.

And now it's O'Neal.

Here's the problem for Ainge: According to a league executive, Paul Pierce has finally told team management that unless the Celtics come out of this week with a talented veteran co-star for him, they should expect him to make a public declaration soon after Thursday's draft that he wants a trade.

"Danny is under tremendous pressure, from inside and outside, to get a deal for someone done this week," one league executive said.

As hard as the Celtics, Pacers, Timberwolves and Lakers worked on the collapsed deal that would've sent Kevin Garnett to Los Angeles, Boston and Indiana couldn't come to terms with what they were to receive. The Pacers were uncomfortable with Andrew Bynum and Lamar Odom without minimally the Lakers' pick at 19, just as the Celtics believed they had to get more back for sending Jefferson, the emerging forward, and the fifth pick to Minnesota.

There was some belief that Pierce was going to demand a trade upon his return from a wrist injury during the regular season, when the bottom fell out of Boston's season with 17 straight losses. He didn't do it.

Ainge and Doc Rivers traveled to Phoenix on Monday night for a shared workout with the Suns that included Florida's Joakim Noah and Corey Brewer and Georgetown's Jeff Green on Tuesday. If Ainge has to pick one of those players – never mind China's Yi Jianlian – it appears that Pierce will soon let him know that he's not interested in the painstaking process of watching the kid develop beside him.

THREE'S TOO MUCH FOR CONLEY
In a lot of ways, the NBA draft doesn't start until the Atlanta Hawks make their choice at No. 3. Whatever the public pressure to take a point guard, rest assured this: They won't be drafting Mike Conley Jr. that high.

After watching him toss brick after brick in Monday's workout with Al Horford and Noah, Atlanta officials had no reason to re-visit a decision they made weeks ago. It isn't that they're not intrigued with Conley, but forget making him the third overall selection. In fact, the Hawks are hoping that if Conley slips past Memphis at No. 4 and Minnesota at No. 7, he will drop down to them at No. 11.

If Conley doesn't make it that far, several league sources said Billy Knight's infatuation with Luke Ridnour will result with the 11th pick being traded to Seattle for the Sonics point guard.

"A lot of the staff there likes Acie Law," one rival executive said, "but Billy has never been sold."

For now, Horford, the 6-foot-10 forward, is expected to be Atlanta's choice at No. 3, but the Hawks will be entertaining trade offers through Thursday's draft. One trade possibility that was discussed but never came together, two league sources said, was Golden State's suggestion that point guard Monta Ellis could be available in a package for the third overall choice.

The Warriors are believed to be intrigued with drafting Yi and are still running scenarios past lottery teams with the hopes of moving up from No. 19.

This substantiates everything I've been saying about Ainge and the Celts. Yi does not do it for them. Ainge desperately wants a vet.

Atlanta entertaining offers for #3? They don't want the pick. No freaking way are they going to trade that #3 for Monta Ellis and the #19. Petrie - WHERE ARE YOU? Ridnour for the 11th pick? Petrie - WHERE ARE YOU?

From what I can tell, it would be behoove the Kings if this mega deal fell apart. Then we might be able to trade Artest to either Minni or Boston to appease the respective stars. So far, there's not enough on the table for Minni - a #5 and Jefferson.
 
We can obviously go over the utterly asinine inclusion of Webber on a list of franchise cornerstones demanding trades. Been covered before. Philly got what they deserved, even what they wanted.


And as an aside, do not mind Pierce's stance nearly so much. Done quietly. He's in a similar spot to KG. Aging, and saddled year after year after year with an inept ex-Celtic front office man. He's put in his time. Its similar to the Mitch Richmond debacle here at the end. Admirable? No. But not completely unreasonable flailing ala a Kobe, who's younger, already has 3 rings, and has had to endure all of three years of it, 2 of which he still made the playoffs. Poor dear.

Also as an aside does keep our chances open for that pick, although I think Ainge wants/will be trying to dig up more exciting ofers than what we can offer. Chicago maybe taking Hawes, and Milwaulkee maybe taking Green are both strong developments as well, if they hold. And if Atlanta is seriously pondering shipping out their #11 for Luke bleeping Ridnour, still thinkl there should be hoe on that front too (although that sounds like Billy King jhust being an idiot once more and developing a man crush on one player rather than the general #11 for a vet PG concept).
 
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Oh, poor Pauly Pierce wants a trade. Maybe he and Kobe and the other malcontents can form their own league. Only 14 guys a year get a ring. The rest, no matter how good they are, just have to stand there and watch... and sometimes watch for their entire careers like John Stockton.

I have no sympathy whatsoever for the Paul Pierces of the NBA. They're living a life less than 100 people A YEAR get a chance at (meaning the number of new players coming into the league) to begin with. And they're paid obscene amounts of money to play a bleeping game.

Shut up and play, Pierce.


Couldn't agree more...
I hate this demanding trade **** we hear every other day...
 
We can obviously go over the utterly asinine inclusion of Webber on a list of franchise cornerstones demanding trades. Been covered before. Philly got what they deserved, even what they wanted.


And as an aside, do not mind Pierce's stance nearly so much. Done quietly. He's in a similar spot to KG. Aging, and saddled year after year after year with an inept ex-Celtic front office man. He's put in his time. Its similaar to the Mitch richmond debacle here at the end. Admirable? No. But not completely unreasonable flailing ala a Kobe, who's younger, already has 3 rings, and has had to endure all of three years of it, 2 of which he still made the playoffs. Poor dear.

Also as an aside does keep our chances open for that pick, although I think Ainge wants/will be trying to dig up more exciting ofers than what we can offer. Chicago maybe taking Hawes, and Milwaulkee maybe taking Green are both strong developments as well, if they hold. And if Atlanta is seriously pondering shipping out their #11 for Luke bleeping Ridnour, still thinkl there should be hoe on that front too (although that sounds like Billy King jhust being an idiot once more and developing a man crush on one player rather than the general #11 for a vet PG concept).

I think - HOPE - that I'm keeping my expectations in check with respect to Petrie and the draft. But if someone sends Atlanta for a sub-Bibby veteran guard for either their #3 or #11, I might lose it!:D
 
I'm just saying... Pierce didn't even go to the media, this is all innuendo. Webber went to the media saying stuff like "I'm not going to play like this anymore," and "I don't like this role. So, you can take that however you want" and dogging it. Not exactly the stuff of "shut up and play."

I'm just pointing out the ever-present double-standard on Kings(andwebber)fans.com. It's hardly fair to call out Paul Pierce when Chris Webber was at the very least guilty of more than him. It admittedly may be unfair to lump Webber in with Kobe and Mourning and the rest, but hardly fair to lump Paul Pierce in with Kobe.
 
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I'm just saying... Pierce didn't even go to the media, this is all innuendo. Webber went to the media saying stuff like "I'm not going to play like this anymore," and "I don't like this role. So, you can take that however you want" and dogging it. Not exactly the stuff of "shut up and play."

I'm just pointing out the ever-present double-standard on Kings(andwebber)fans.com. It's hardly fair to call out Paul Pierce when Chris Webber was at the very least guilty of more than him. It admittedly may be unfair to lump Webber in with Kobe and Mourning and the rest, but hardly fair to lump Paul Pierce in with Kobe.

Define fair in a pragmatic definition.
 
All these "demands" - from Kobe, Pierce, Garnett - sure make for a lot of trading opportunities. A lot of meat out there for a hungry wolf.... Petrie, sharpen those incisors!:D
 
All these "demands" - from Kobe, Pierce, Garnett - sure make for a lot of trading opportunities. A lot of meat out there for a hungry wolf.... Petrie, sharpen those incisors!:D
Um I hate to ste the obvious but these guys are all demanding trades BECEAUSE they are on loosing teams... not sure what incentive there is to play for the Kings at this point.
 
Fair: Being in accordance with relative merit or significance. Usage: "It would be fair to say that you are wrong about Yi Jianlian."


Who defines fairness though? It's fair to say the jury is still out on Yi being a good or bad NBA player, therefore I'm just as wrong (or right) as you are at this point on our evaluations of him.
 
I have little to no interest in Bryant/Garnett/Pierce at this point but it appears that there may be deals to be had out there including one for #5 pick that Boston holds. I'd at least have to find out if I was management simply because of all the talk that they don't want more young talent and are looking for a vet or 2.
 
All these "demands" - from Kobe, Pierce, Garnett - sure make for a lot of trading opportunities. A lot of meat out there for a hungry wolf.... Petrie, sharpen those incisors!:D
Garnett hasn't demanded a trade. Neither has Pierce

Garnett has hinted at opting out, and Pierce, according to the above article, is only threatening to demand a trade
 
I'm telling you, Bibby for Rondo and Szcerbiak. Pierce will be happy cause he gets a veteran without having to give up Al Jefferson and they still have the #5 pick. That's a good trade for everyone.
 
I'm telling you, Bibby for Rondo and Szcerbiak. Pierce will be happy cause he gets a veteran without having to give up Al Jefferson and they still have the #5 pick. That's a good trade for everyone.


A good deal for everyone except us of course. ;)

Rondo might be a nice backup PG. You don't trade Mike Bibby away for him, and take on Wally's crap contract to boot, form a player for whom we have no use. There have to be better deals for Mike than that out there.
 
^I agree. I'd be hard-pressed to be too excited about Bibby for Ratliff/Rondo, let alone taking on Wally's deal.
 
A good deal for everyone except us of course. ;)

Rondo might be a nice backup PG. You don't trade Mike Bibby away for him, and take on Wally's crap contract to boot, form a player for whom we have no use. There have to be better deals for Mike than that out there.

I think Rondo is definitely starting PG material, wouldn't mind getting him at all.
 
A good deal for everyone except us of course. ;)

Rondo might be a nice backup PG. You don't trade Mike Bibby away for him, and take on Wally's crap contract to boot, form a player for whom we have no use. There have to be better deals for Mike than that out there.

If Boston would bite on Rondo and Ratliff for Bibby, even better. But I'm not sure they would because they've seen him play up close for a whole year. Bibby might not be enough to get them over the top, and then they've given up their PG of the future. I know nothing I say is going to convince you, but Rondo is much better than a nice backup.
 
He can't shoot. At all. This poses a problem in a sport where points are recorded when you actually put the ball in the basket.

He did the same close the garbagetime of the season with a rush thing that Travis Outlaw did, Cisco, Justin Williams, Marty Conlon etc., and that's always intriguing. Woudln't mind having him at all. Certainly thought we should have drafted him instead of a guy like Douby. But not for Mike Bibby.
 
He can't shoot. At all. This poses a problem in a sport where points are recorded when you actually put the ball in the basket.

He did the same close the garbagetime of the season with a rush thing that Travis Outlaw did, Cisco, Justin Williams, Marty Conlon etc., and that's always intriguing. Woudln't mind having him at all. Certainly thought we should have drafted him instead of a guy like Douby. But not for Mike Bibby.

As a starter:

25 g, 35 mpg, 47 fg%, 10.6 ppg, 5.8 apg, 5.4 rpg, 2.4 spg

For a rookie, that's really impressive to me. I'm not saying I'd definitely trade Bibby for him but he's not just a backup PG. He has very good starter potential IMO.
 
As a starter:

25 g, 35 mpg, 47 fg%, 10.6 ppg, 5.8 apg, 5.4 rpg, 2.4 spg

For a rookie, that's really impressive to me. I'm not saying I'd definitely trade Bibby for him but he's not just a backup PG. He has very good starter potential IMO.


That was all in the last month. And again, in the last month I can post stats suggesting that Rondo, Collins, Outlaw, Webster, Cisco and Justin williams would win the title. The guy shoots sub-40% for the entire season, and then that wacky time of the year pops up, and all of a sudden its 54%? No. Numbers are suspect. Like everything else he brings. Tough player. But there is no starter there until the numebrs become legit.

For comparison: Mardy Collins numbers as a starter (also mostly April): 14.8ppg 6.7reb 5.8ast 2.0stl. And yes, I noted that and am intrigued there too. But I'm not trading Mike Bibby for him head up. Sorts of guys that if you can get them thrown into a bigger deal, sure. But they can't be the centerpiece off of nothing more. Your strikeout percentage is goign to be huge.
 
Yeah but those numbers didn't come out of nowhere. He was similarly great in the summer league and pre-season last year when he got minutes. Just looking at his track record, his rebounding and defense stand out as All-Star level everywhere he's played. He also had 31 assists in a high school game. He also had 57 points in a high school game. Yes everyone knows he can't shoot. The point is, he can play.

Here are some career highlights from Wikipedia--
  • On March 17, 2007 Rondo pulled down a career-high 14 rebounds in a victory against the San Antonio Spurs.
  • Rondo has had six 4-steal games.
  • Rondo ended his rookie campaign by being named to the NBA's All-Rookie Second Team.
  • Rondo led the NBA in steals per 48 minutes with 3.36.
  • Rondo was 10th in the NBA with 128 steals in 06-07 despite playing just 23.5 minutes per game.
  • Rondo ranked 4th in the NBA in steals per turnover with 0.93
Leading the league in steals per 48 mins as a rookie is pretty significant. And he was 10th in the league in steals so that's not a statistical anomally. Any PG having a 14 rebound game is pretty significant. This is a 6-1 PG who led his college team in rebounding. He was also on the same high school team as Josh Smith, and he was the more celebrated player. Josh Smith turned into a pretty decent NBA player himself. You're right he hasn't proved much in the NBA yet, but neither had Deron Williams before this year. The track record is there. Everything about this guy says he is going to be a defensive terror, a great rebounder at his position, and a more than decent playmaker. That's starter material in my book, even if he can't shoot. On offense we just need him to pass Kevin the ball.
 
Um I hate to ste the obvious but these guys are all demanding trades BECEAUSE they are on loosing teams... not sure what incentive there is to play for the Kings at this point.

You're on point. But my point, which I failed to mention, is that the Kings could be involved in a 3-team trade with these teams. Also, if the deals do not go down, these teams will want to bring in good *vets* to appease their dissapointed stars, who are seeking instant gratification. Those vets could be Artest and Bibby.
 
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