Our Complete Lack of Offense/Movement, in Pictures

[rainmaker]

This is something I think many should look at. Both Reke and Cousins get a ton of criticism around here for not creating enough. Some think fixing our offense is as simply as trading Evans for a more pure pg, as names such as Augustin and Andre Miller have been thrown around as trade targets for Reke(WTF?).

Well, our problem is a complete lack of an offensive system, with practically zero off the ball movement, and even less of that is what I'd call "smart" off the ball movement, meaning a positive movement to create a passing lane, or effectively help create space for the guy with the ball.

What some seem to ignore, is that even if we had a pg with eyes in back of his head, he still needs to be surrounded by four guys who know how to move, cut, and create the correct passing lanes off the ball. We have none of that. Reke is extremely poor at it. So is Thornton. Salmons and JJ are the worst. JT is regularly is the wrong place. Our youngsters haven't been taught how to move and space the floor effectively, and our vets, namely Salmons and JJ(if he qualifies as a vet), have got to be two of the lowest IQ players in the league for the experience they have.

Anyway, I recommend taking the time and looking through this. It's early, very early in Smarts tenure, but the problems you'll see are almost a carbon copy of the problems we had under Westy.

http://www.sactownroyalty.com/2012/...fense-not-the-talent-now-in-pictures#comments

I hope some will look at this, and realize it's not that Cousins is incredibly selfish and doesn't want to pass, or that Reke can't create, eventhough he does time and time again, but that when either has the ball, the other four guys are doing more harm than good. Reke can drive and draw another defender repeatedly, but it means crap if the other guys don't know how to create a passing lane for Reke to pass out of the congestion. You can blame Cousins for making poor passes, and forcing perimeter shots, but that's ignoring that his teammates don't cut, or create passing lanes when he has the ball, so there isn't another option for him.

Good read. Very early, but rings true.

 

[Vlade4GM]

That's what happens when you put together a team full of one-on-one gunners.

 

[Bricklayer]

Really everybody should look at those sequences, but should also remember that this was the Magic game, at which point we had basiclaly had 1 practice with Smart's new offense. I doubt he was able to put in too much more than you stand here, you stand there, to try to create spacing, and then those basic pick and rolls, which none of our guys had probably run since college given Westphal's aversion to them.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

This was always going to be the problem when we switched coaches in this lockout season.

 

[jpsls]

This was always going to be the problem when we switched coaches in this lockout season.

This was happening before Smart

 

[Glenn]

This was happening before Smart

The only difference I see is that they push the ball up the court periodically and maybe Reke handles the ball more. In any case, this is a style of basketball that depends totally on the 1 on 1 ability of its players as it seems all they do is pass it around until someone wants to go 1 v 1. The coach is adding nothing unless preventing mayhem in the locker room is his contribution. I didn't expect more because of all the reasons we all know but this season may not give us any information on whether we should have Smart another season. The players can't do anything more than they are told and at that I don't even think we have a great idea of what skills our players have or don't have. It's a lost year so far.

 

[rainmaker]

This was always going to be the problem when we switched coaches in this lockout season.

Kind of disagree.

Players don't forget how to create passing lanes, or how to cut off the ball, because of a coaching change. These screen shots are pretty elementary. Can't tell me that with all the coaches Salmons has played for, he still can't rotate to the elbow extended to create a simple passing lane. Very similar to the shell drill, working against a zone defense in high school. You move to an open spot, where you have a clear lane to the passer, and the passer has a clear lane to you, and really create off the gaps in the defense, and learn how t move into those gaps.

You are a soccer fan. It's similar to soccer. A good winger doesn't all the sudden forget which space he should push into, and that his main job is to spread the field, push the lines, and send in crosses because of a coaching change.

What I think all this does show, is that in the 2+ years Westy was coach, not a single player learned the most elementary basics of creating passing lines, cutting, or not occupying the same area as a teammate. We constantly have guys is a position on offense where one defender can guard two of our guys, without moving. I mean, that's one of the most elementary no-no's in basketball. I don't blame Smart for this. He's in a very tough situation. Practically a no win situation.

 

[Npliam]

As a Jazz fan I have been shocked at just how bad the Kings offense has been. There is no ball movement, no player movement off the ball or any real desirre prom any of the players to make back cuts or set effective screens. It is kind of a joke.

One thing I am sure of is that if Jerry Sloan ever agreed to coach the Kings the would be some key players upset with his offense.

 

[Glenn]

As a Jazz fan I have been shocked at just how bad the Kings offense has been. There is no ball movement, no player movement off the ball or any real desirre prom any of the players to make back cuts or set effective screens. It is kind of a joke.

One thing I am sure of is that if Jerry Sloan ever agreed to coach the Kings the would be some key players upset with his offense.

I think most players would be greatful for the offense.

 

[Bricklayer]

I think most players would be greatful for the offense.

Perhaps. I think Sloan though would be a mistake frankly given he just got chased out of the league by Deron Williams and now would be staring down DeMarcus Cousins.

This was actually talked about for years under Westpahl though, other teams saying we were actually kind of hard to prepare for because there were no plays. Wish I had access to some of Smart's games with G.S. last year so I couild see what his final product is supposed to look like.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Kind of disagree.

Players don't forget how to create passing lanes, or how to cut off the ball, because of a coaching change. These screen shots are pretty elementary. Can't tell me that with all the coaches Salmons has played for, he still can't rotate to the elbow extended to create a simple passing lane. Very similar to the shell drill, working against a zone defense in high school. You move to an open spot, where you have a clear lane to the passer, and the passer has a clear lane to you, and really create off the gaps in the defense, and learn how t move into those gaps.

You are a soccer fan. It's similar to soccer. A good winger doesn't all the sudden forget which space he should push into, and that his main job is to spread the field, push the lines, and send in crosses because of a coaching change.

What I think all this does show, is that in the 2+ years Westy was coach, not a single player learned the most elementary basics of creating passing lines, cutting, or not occupying the same area as a teammate. We constantly have guys is a position on offense where one defender can guard two of our guys, without moving. I mean, that's one of the most elementary no-no's in basketball. I don't blame Smart for this. He's in a very tough situation. Practically a no win situation.

But that's what it comes down to, this team had no cohesive offense under Westy. For 2/3rds of our top players, plus the rooks, this is all they know in the NBA. Smart can't come in and implement a real offense with limited practice and time off. So everyone is going to resort to one on one and trying to win with individual skill.

Smart has a tough road cut out for him. Those who thought that ditching Westy was going to be the easy fix are in for a rough stretch.

 

[Gary]

My favorite was "Salmons and Evans are literally trying to occupy the same space on the floor."

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Another good one was "Evans positioning is conducive to NBA basketball."

 

[bluntsnbball]

Totally agree with this post, but im not going to blame this entirely on a new coach and limited practice time. Im no coach, but it seems to me that any coach with half a brain should be able to get some form of consistent movement from the players. Unless Smart is just copying Westphals system, then some changes should be visible right now.

 

[Bricklayer]

Totally agree with this post, but im not going to blame this entirely on a new coach and limited practice time. Im no coach, but it seems to me that any coach with half a brain should be able to get some form of consistent movement from the players. Unless Smart is just copying Westphals system, then some changes should be visible right now.

There actually have been some, or at least were before last night. The slides above were from Oralndo though, which was the 2nd game of Smart's tenure, and the first one with any practice time.

Unfortunately for both us and Smart, this whole season is setting up as a "we come on at the end and fall short " sort of deal. That's not always bad, as its precisely what OKC did when it turned the corner a couple of years back. But its dicey because our guys are going to have to keep their heads into it, the front office is going to need to avoid panicking, despite the arena thing still out there too, and Coach Smart is going to be walking a tightrope for getting his option year picked up -- will realy need to make a charge late. But with a coaching change, in a shortened season, some things that look like flat screwups by the fonrt office in the offseason, an injury to our supposed defensive captian, and a schedule much tougher to start than to end the season...its all set up for "young team struggles early, comes together under new coach, makes a little run, but falls short due to youth and inexperience" storyline.

 

[rainmaker]

My favorite was "Salmons and Evans are literally trying to occupy the same space on the floor."

------------------------------------------------

Another good one was "Evans positioning is conducive to NBA basketball."

Why am I not the least bit surprised.

Must have been like a little kid flipping through a picture book for you, pointing and laughing when you see Tyreke, and saying "it's all his fault".

Also not surprised you didn't comment on the breakdown of the offense . I'm wondering, and asking, can you point to a single post of yours from this season where you actually commented on our system, the effects it has on our players, that our players aren't being used to their strengths, and what these same players can do in systems run by other teams around the league?

All I see from you is Reke sucks, can't play point, and trade him for just about any other pg in the league. Yet, I;ve heard nothing from you on our system, and that another pg, even the purest you can dream of, doesn't work in a system with zero off the ball movement. You seem to think if other pg's penetrate with our offense, all these passing lanes will magically appear. I also have yet to see you comment on all the times Reke penetrates, sets guys up, and they continuously brick shots.

I'm guessing since you're so anti Reke, you've actually explained all your reasons for it, and taken into account our lack of a system, and complete lack of coaching. Do you mind posting those posts so I can better understand where you're coming from?

Edit: Not related, and I can't speak for anyone else who likes Reke, but I like Rubio as well. He's a damn good player, on both ends. I think you don't need to refer to the Reke backers as "idiots", and act as if it's either/or. Why in your mind does someone have to like Reke or Rubio? They're both damn good players.

 

[IfAt1st]

I REALLY wish that more fans, the coaches, and the management watched this kind of thread.
I wish there were video clips instead of screen captures to show the abysmal movement and spacing we're treated to on a nightly basis.

I've rewound-and-replayed countless sets the past 2 years, and been baffled by the inexplicable absurdities I've seen.

This in no way remotely resembles a professional offense (or defense much of the time).

The fact that the Kings have tried so few pick-and-rolls for the past 2+ years is a complete indictment of the coaching, AND front office. They can not escape blame here - the coaches work for the organization, and when they have proven incapable of running competent sets year in and year out, they are to blame for keeping those coaches in.

**** "stability" - yes, I am rejecting this (recent) notion that a team just have "stability" in coaching and lineups.
I'm already sick of Keith Smart saying that he wants to have a "stable" lineup - if Salmons (or anyone else) is proving game in and game out that they have no business on the court, than take them out and damn the "stability"!

You know what I like better than "stability"?
Competence.
The Kings showing the basics, the fundamentals of professional ball is the LEAST we should expect.
If Keith Smart can't get them to start showing even accidental flickers of it, than yank his *** and get someone in there that... I don't know... has PROVEN they can on a professional level for years and years?

BTW - what I would LOVE to know is - with all of the Kings multi-million dollar video equipment that they supposedly use for players/coaches to "break down the film", what do they DO during these coaching sessions?
How can they possibly NOT KNOW how embarrassing these plays are, and how can they continue night after night with NO improvement? What explains Tyreke, Salmons and/or Hickson standing still on the court, players standing next to each other, no backdoor cuts, no p-n-r, no screens, etc?

 

[Bricklayer]

I REALLY wish that more fans, the coaches, and the management watched this kind of thread.
I wish there were video clips instead of screen captures to show the abysmal movement and spacing we're treated to on a nightly basis.

I've rewound-and-replayed countless sets the past 2 years, and been baffled by the inexplicable absurdities I've seen.

This in no way remotely resembles a professional offense (or defense much of the time).

The fact that the Kings have tried so few pick-and-rolls for the past 2+ years is a complete indictment of the coaching, AND front office. They can not escape blame here - the coaches work for the organization, and when they have proven incapable of running competent sets year in and year out, they are to blame for keeping those coaches in.

**** "stability" - yes, I am rejecting this (recent) notion that a team just have "stability" in coaching and lineups.
I'm already sick of Keith Smart saying that he wants to have a "stable" lineup - if Salmons (or anyone else) is proving game in and game out that they have no business on the court, than take them out and damn the "stability"!

You know what I like better than "stability"?
Competence.
The Kings showing the basics, the fundamentals of professional ball is the LEAST we should expect.
If Keith Smart can't get them to start showing even accidental flickers of it, than yank his *** and get someone in there that... I don't know... has PROVEN they can on a professional level for years and years?

BTW - what I would LOVE to know is - with all of the Kings multi-million dollar video equipment that they supposedly use for players/coaches to "break down the film", what do they DO during these coaching sessions?
How can they possibly NOT KNOW how embarrassing these plays are, and how can they continue night after night with NO improvement? What explains Tyreke, Salmons and/or Hickson standing still on the court, players standing next to each other, no backdoor cuts, no p-n-r, no screens, etc?

Well the thing with the SF situation is unfortunately who HAS been stable there? Its not like basically anybody but Reke/Thronton/Cousins has made an argument for himself this year. I like the idea of Donte there, but there certainly hasn't been anything approaching a no brainer solution there presenting itself. Other than that guy in Russia who hurt us by choosing to stay home.

Meanwhile an offense clearly predicated around the talents of our 3 young stars has had to function without Thornton, who was replaced by a freefalling Jimmer. That was a loss of about 12-15ppgt a night, and basically none of our roleplayers stepped up to fill in those numbers. Then Cousins gets sick apparently, so HE's not himself. Throw in no practices...

Its kind of like cooking. Sometimes a huge key is letting something marinate or simmer long enough that the flavors begin to smooth out and blend. Coach Smart is trying not to keep on throwing in more ingredients, but he hasn't been helped by timing or health. We just need to be able to trot out our three main guys, uninterrupted, for a few weeks, and see where we are then.

 

[Npliam]

Perhaps. I think Sloan though would be a mistake frankly given he just got chased out of the league by Deron Williams and now would be staring down DeMarcus Cousins.

I think that depends on what you mean by "chased out of the league". Nobody in the Jazz organization wanted Sloan to go. They all knew Derron was gone with or without Sloan. I believe Sloan just lost his fire and knew he it. He is an old man and didn't want to live the lifestyle of an NBA coach anymore.

 

[Npliam]

I think most players would be greatful for the offense.

I don't. I think Evans and Thorton in particular wouldn't like being able to shoot whatever shot they wanted whenever they wanted to. I think the other players would like it though.

 

[Sac.1989]

It depends on the player and their demenour really. I read about Kobe today and how when he met mike brown he told him early on to be as hard on him as anyone else in the team. I dont think Evans or Thornton are selfish players who simply want to take their shots. They just need to be furthered in a system. Coach Smart summed it up by saying we have alot of iso players and that really is what Evans and Thorntons strengths are

 

[IfAt1st]

Coach Smart ... hasn't been helped by timing or health. We just need to be able to trot out our three main guys, uninterrupted, for a few weeks, and see where we are then.

Well, I agree he has not been helped by the injuries/sicknesses. Hayes being out has basically punched a whole in the defense, and MT being out blew up the offense (since he's the only one who can shoot from outside this year).

To be clearer about my patience level : I'm giving Smart 1 1/2 months for these Kings to show SOME semblance of an ability to run some set plays which demonstrate a true break from Westphal's proven-disastrous free-flow drive-and-kick, no-movement bull****.

If the Kings don't start running screens, pick-and-rolls, and backcuts, etc I'm going to start openly advocating throwing him out and considering him a failure at what THIS team NEEDS. None of those things are alien to these players - they are professional athletes who have been doing these plays their entire adolescent and adult careers.
Hell, I think it's rather amazing that the Kings don't do ANY of the things that other teams do (even high-school teams!) - I mean, how could you break YEARS of habits as soon as they get on the Kings?
IT ran 2 p-n-r's with DMC the other game, and it apparently was accidental cause we haven't seen it since.

We simply don't have the luxury of allowing a coach who can't get these players to run a basic NBA offense to run the show unchallenged anymore. You think it would take Sloan 2 months to get a team of professionals to run a pick-and-roll?

And a word about Sloan - it would be extreme folly to overlook this legend, if he was remotely interested in coaching the Kings.
Brick, you keep insinuating that he was run out of Utah, and others have said he isn't interested.
Well, I'd like to hear it from the horse's mouth, and AFAIK Sloan hasn't said one official word about whether he's interested in coaching again.
So until I hear ANYthing from Sloan, I'm assuming he's remotely available, which means the FO should be doing EVERYthing they can to get him in here, regardless of having Keith Smart on the roster. I GUARANTEE he'd get these Kings players running set plays, with screens to free up shooters, and pick-and-rolls to force the defense into giving them some clearer shots, within 2 months.

 

[est.1999]

Why am I not the least bit surprised.

Must have been like a little kid flipping through a picture book for you, pointing and laughing when you see Tyreke, and saying "it's all his fault".

Also not surprised you didn't comment on the breakdown of the offense . I'm wondering, and asking, can you point to a single post of yours from this season where you actually commented on our system, the effects it has on our players, that our players aren't being used to their strengths, and what these same players can do in systems run by other teams around the league?

All I see from you is Reke sucks, can't play point, and trade him for just about any other pg in the league. Yet, I;ve heard nothing from you on our system, and that another pg, even the purest you can dream of, doesn't work in a system with zero off the ball movement. You seem to think if other pg's penetrate with our offense, all these passing lanes will magically appear. I also have yet to see you comment on all the times Reke penetrates, sets guys up, and they continuously brick shots.

I'm guessing since you're so anti Reke, you've actually explained all your reasons for it, and taken into account our lack of a system, and complete lack of coaching. Do you mind posting those posts so I can better understand where you're coming from?

Edit: Not related, and I can't speak for anyone else who likes Reke, but I like Rubio as well. He's a damn good player, on both ends. I think you don't need to refer to the Reke backers as "idiots", and act as if it's either/or. Why in your mind does someone have to like Reke or Rubio? They're both damn good players.

Ownage at its finest.

 

[The_Jamal]

I don't blame Smart in the slightest. He's had what, 3-4 practices with these guys? Throw in us being the youngest team in the NBA and you have a recipe for disaster.


Westphal basically threw this team into the ****ter and cost us years of development. The talent level is certainly there as we've seen on several occasions of the season. The problem is the lack of structure which is leading to all the one-on-one offense that we have

 

[pshn80]

Recent games and last night were so very bad that one reason I have for hope is that such bad play can't last. Impossible. So what can we expect to see to help straighten it out?

 

[Gary]

Why am I not the least bit surprised.

Must have been like a little kid flipping through a picture book for you, pointing and laughing when you see Tyreke, and saying "it's all his fault".

Also not surprised you didn't comment on the breakdown of the offense . I'm wondering, and asking, can you point to a single post of yours from this season where you actually commented on our system, the effects it has on our players, that our players aren't being used to their strengths, and what these same players can do in systems run by other teams around the league?

All I see from you is Reke sucks, can't play point, and trade him for just about any other pg in the league. Yet, I;ve heard nothing from you on our system, and that another pg, even the purest you can dream of, doesn't work in a system with zero off the ball movement. You seem to think if other pg's penetrate with our offense, all these passing lanes will magically appear. I also have yet to see you comment on all the times Reke penetrates, sets guys up, and they continuously brick shots.

I'm guessing since you're so anti Reke, you've actually explained all your reasons for it, and taken into account our lack of a system, and complete lack of coaching. Do you mind posting those posts so I can better understand where you're coming from?

Edit: Not related, and I can't speak for anyone else who likes Reke, but I like Rubio as well. He's a damn good player, on both ends. I think you don't need to refer to the Reke backers as "idiots", and act as if it's either/or. Why in your mind does someone have to like Reke or Rubio? They're both damn good players.

Season tickets homie.. Can't post as much when the schedule is so truncated. Seems like all I do is work and go to games. This road trip is a blessing in disguise.. Have had time to play my SWTOR. I was a little kid with those pictures.. The comments made me laugh.

The comments I have made regarding our offense is basically what others have said. Movement and good passing creates easy shots. We are the ONLY team in the league (last I checked) that is averaging more turnovers than assists. It's about as basic as that. If they would accept their roles the team would be much better, but Evans seems to have it in his mind that he needs to carry the team. Salmons is disinterested, Thorton has been cold lately, Hickson cant do it all by himself but he does hustle, and Cousins is acting like a crybaby.

From watching the bench when the starters are out I have a feeling a lot of them don't get along in real life, and Salmons is here to collect a paycheck. He hardly ever talks to anyone.

I think the team as a whole would do much better if we had a good base, meaning we don't try to force players into positions they cannot play. I watched virtually every Memphis game the year Tyreke was there. My dad is a graduate from Memphis. Even he knew this was going to be a bad fit if they tried to force Tyreke to play PG. He's not good enough to be the primary ball handler. Why? Because when you have a primary handler you need to be good enough to take the team on your back, and you need to be good enough to pass it out when you don't have a shot. Evans cannot do either on a consistent basis. Coaching? Maybe....

Evans is a better 1 on 1 player than Rubio every day of the week but I would have rather just built the team like a traditional team wither players that play specific positions and then see what we had to work with from there. It's much better than drafting a bunch of out of position players who are good 1 on 1 and telling them to get the whole team involved.

 

[The_Jamal]

Recent games and last night were so very bad that one reason I have for hope is that such bad play can't last. Impossible. So what can we expect to see to help straighten it out?

Just Time. We've spent the last 3 years to build this core together and now it's time to start building some chemistry and learning how to play with one another. We aren't the Celtics, Spurs, Lakers, OKC, Mavericks who have been together for 3+ years. We've played 13 games, had a head coaching change, and have no offensive system put in place. It's going to take time to get this team to work together

 

[swisshh]

I wouldn't be surprised if the team's offense is the way it is precisely due to the type of players the team has. Whether Smart plans to or is able to correct this is a guessing game.

The logic or the lack of logic in roster moves of the past couple of years shows a disregard for the sort of players or balance that would help fix the situation. If the top of organization shows itself to be a mess, it is often true that the resulting product on the floor is a mess. You need great coaching to overcome such a disadvantage, but bad FOs rarely get great coaches.

 

[Gary]

Ownage at its finest.

hahah sure... I didn't even take is as a jab, so obviously you misunderstood something... Now your posts... HAH! pure fail.

 

[Larry89]

There will be movement soon, as the fanbase dwindles as a cold wind comes across the caverns of the empty wallets of the maloofs, the team will move.. move somewhere

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

There will be movement soon, as the fanbase dwindles as a cold wind comes across the caverns of the empty wallets of the maloofs, the team will move.. move somewhere

Has there been a press release that they're not building a new arena that I missed or something? I've been seeing a lot of the "they're moving" crap again lately.