NBA Playoffs, Round One

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Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I think that the non-Blazer fan Lillard fans who'd like to see Lillard win a ring before he retires aren't as philosophically opposed to the formation of "superteams" as people who live in Portland, or other places where they know that nobody would ever want to go to form a "superteam."
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I'm a huge Dame fan. He's my favorite non-KINGS player.

I am vehemently opposed to super-teams. And front running.

I'm glad Dame is too.

Rooting for a franchise that isn't considered "en vogue" doesn't change my opinion on that.

I'm a lifelong Dodgers fan. And while they have signed some big name free agents over the years, they largely haven't gone the "Yankees" route of using small market teams as their own personal farm system.

The team they've got now is largely built upon home grown talent from their farm system. Like all franchises should, they've added via trade and free agency where they can. But the core of the engine is their own.

I'd hate it if they bought all the best players and formed a super team in that way.

I'd hate it if the KINGS were ever able to do the same.
 
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steelevt said:
Dame carries the team through the 4th and OT...blazers decide to let everyone else shoot and they in turn brick and turn it over
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Yeah, Dame was let down big time whenever he created shots for his teammates tonight. Whereas anytime Jokic passed to an open teammate, they made the shot more often than not.

Watching the game tonight, I became more and more frustrated with all blatant traveling Jokic gets away with. It's disgusting.
I swear, most times he touched the ball late 4th quarter and though out OT he was traveling in some fashion.

I counted 3 times where he picked up the dribble, established a pivot foot then proceeded to lift that pivot foot and take a shot off the opposite foot.
So many other times he shuffles and slides his feet while making moves. It often appears as if he's on skates.

My wife and I often rewind to make sure we saw what we thought we saw and it's often even worse than we thought!

I get it. Jokic is a talented player. But sheesh -- he goes from a really good player to something unguardable because he doesn't have to obey basic rules of player movement. Less so than most other players.

As you can clearly tell, I really hate it.

Circling back to Dame ---- wow. Just wow.
 
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KingsFanSince85 said:
Yeah, Dame was let down big time whenever he created shots for his teammates tonight. Whereas anytime Jokic passed to an open teammate, they made the shot more often than not.

Watching the game tonight, I became more and more frustrated with all blatant traveling Jokic gets away with. It's disgusting.
I swear, most times he touched the ball late 4th quarter and though out OT he was traveling in some fashion.

I counted 3 times where he picked up the dribble, established a pivot foot then proceeded to lift that pivot foot and take a shot off the opposite foot.
So many other times he shuffles and slides his feet while making moves. It often appears as if he's on skates.

My wife and I often rewind to make sure we saw what we thought we saw and it's often even worse than we thought!

I get it. Jokic is a talented player. But sheesh -- he goes from a really good player to something unguardable because he doesn't have to obey basic rules of player movement. Less so than most other players.

As you can clearly tell, I really hate it.

Circling back to Dame ---- wow. Just wow.
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I have always respected you on this board, but finding out you are a Dodgers fan really has me rethinking that opinion.
Go Giants!
 
Telemachus said:
I have always respected you on this board, but finding out you are a Dodgers fan really has me rethinking that opinion.
Go Giants!
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Can’t believe you didn’t already know! I haven’t kept it a secret.

All I can tell you is, in the mid-to-late 1970’s, the lame ass Giants weren’t good enough to be on TV. Just like the 49ers in football. So as a young 6,7 year old I didn’t see them or know of them for a while.

First game I recall seeing was Dodgers-Yankees in 1977. I didn’t like the Yankees and picked the Dodgers.

Blame it on the era. As a NorCal kid born and raised, none of the teams I grew up watching were local.

The KINGS and SHARKS are the only locals for me. But they both arrived late to the scene.
Sac State Hornets football are my 2nd college team.
 
Tetsujin said:
It is hilarious to me that the guy who is the least injury prone of all the superstar bigs in the league now is the one who looks like he eats a pint of ice cream after every game (Jokic)
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Well, when he is allowed to move as he does — he probably doesn’t have as much pressure or tork on his knees, ankles, whatever.

Meanwhile Embiid and other bigs actually try to make legit basketball moves. ;)
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Can’t believe you didn’t already know! I haven’t kept it a secret.

All I can tell you is, in the mid-to-late 1970’s, the lame ass Giants weren’t good enough to be on TV. Just like the 49ers in football. So as a young 6,7 year old I didn’t see them or know of them for a while.

First game I recall seeing was Dodgers-Yankees in 1977. I didn’t like the Yankees and picked the Dodgers.

Blame it on the era. As a NorCal kid born and raised, none of the teams I grew up watching were local.

The KINGS and SHARKS are the only locals for me. But they both arrived late to the scene.
Sac State Hornets football are my 2nd college team.
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I grew up listening to games on the radio. Only ever made it to see a game once. It was a double-header against the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1979 (the Pirates won the WS that year). The Giants lost both games with Kent Tekulve getting the save in both games. I was 8 years old at the time.
 
kingsboi said:
plenty of players that have never won a ring are in the hall of fame and the same will happen with the current crop of players that have yet to win a ring or their time is running out.
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To the extent that this is true, how many of them were drafted after Jordan's second (1998) retirement?

Cultures come and go. players start new trends. Bron, Wade and Bosh made it cool to create superteams. it doesn't necessarily mean every player will want to go out and do the same.
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I think you may have misspelled Pierce, Garnett and Allen? And we should be okay with it, because this culture is a monster of our own creation: if we, as consumers, hadn't spent every day since Jordan retired telling these players that their careers are zero sum, without a ring, maybe they wouldn't feel the burden of winning a ring, no matter what?

Lillard and Giannis are two players I can think of that aren't a part of that chirade.
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So you say. I don't believe that, for a second. If anything, I believe, to the contrary, that they want to be part of a "superteam," just as much as those other guys, they just (a) don't want to go somewhere else to form a "superteam," and (b) want to be able to say that they were "the guy," no matter what. If Damian Lillard thought that he could get Giannis Antetokounmpo to come to Portland, and defer to him, he'd be trying to recruit him, right now. I think that Lillard totally wants to be on a "superteam," he just doesn't want to be thought of as the guy who had to "ring chase." If he could get people to come to him, he would. In my opinion, the only difference between a guy like Lillard and a guy like Harden is that Harden doesn't care if we think that he's "weak" or "soft," for going to "chase" a ring. Lillard is just as "weak" as Harden is, he just doesn't want us to think that.

Westbrook during all his years in OKC playing with Durant couldn't get it done and he accepted it.
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Right. He accepted it. That's why he's still in Oklahoma City.

Strong personality has everything to do with Sports Psychology and if you think that doesn't factor into all this, then I have nothing else to say and I'll bow out gracefully
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Yeah, you'll never convince me on the myth of the "strong personality" in sports, so I guess I'll have to do that thing I hate, and agree to disagree.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
I'm glad Dame is too.
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Again, so you say. As I intimated in my reply to @kingsboi, I don't believe in that "I guess I'm just built different" stuff. Never have, never will. What I believe is that Damian Lillard is simply more image conscious than most of his peers. I don't think that Damian Lillard the man, or Damian Lillard the basketball player, has any problems whatsoever with "superteams." But, Damian Lillard™ knows that that wouldn't play well with the people who consume his brand. So he keeps that to himself.
 
Maybe he just likes Portland and wants to make it work here?

He was a small college player too. I believe people in all walks (and I can say this for myself) will take less $$$, accolades, etc. to be someplace/doing something they really like/love.

But I also have to imagine he's getting frustrated with the ceiling here and might move on if something doesn't change.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Maybe he just likes Portland and wants to make it work here?
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I'm sure that your location has nothing to do with that particular theory? :p

He was a small college player too. I believe people in all walks (and I can say this for myself) will take less $$$, accolades, etc. to be someplace/doing something they really like/love.
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To the first statement, that's a little misleading: he went to a small school. I wouldn't say that that makes him a "small college player," but others might say that's splitting hairs. My only point is that I don't think that anyone believes that Weber State was his first choice. To the second statement, that, in itself, is a level of privilege. Privilege that Damian Lillard has, mind you, but I reserve the right to remain cynical, regarding whether or not he actually feels fulfilled, playing in Portland, with no chance of winning.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
I'm sure that your location has nothing to do with that particular theory? :p
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Well tbh, I've been ready to move on for a few years now. Only things that keep me here are my kiddo and because if I can hang on until 55 I'll be eligible for 2/3rds of my pension and could probably do part time consulting in my field and travel the rest of the time.

But I do see how Dame fits in here, he's a hero, his hip hop side-career is very well supported here. I can see why someone would hang onto that vs. taking a ton of money to go play for the Clippers or some wannabe superteam and how that pans out if you don't win it all. Look at all the delight the LeBron bashing crowd is having right now. I tend to agree that based on his on-court play he probably isn't satisfied being on a team with no chance to ever win it all, but he could be comfortable and not want to risk the good thing he has if the payoff isn't 10x larger.

How many rings did LeBron guarantee to Miami. The fact he got two is pretty nice being a Sacramento fan, but I feel like he was talking 5+.
 
Telemachus said:
I grew up listening to games on the radio. Only ever made it to see a game once. It was a double-header against the Pittsburgh Pirates in 1979 (the Pirates won the WS that year). The Giants lost both games with Kent Tekulve getting the save in both games. I was 8 years old at the time.
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Sounds like we’re the same age.

Funny, but my first game at Candlestick was with my little league team and we also saw the Pirates. In 77 or 78. Don’t recall exactly.

My first NFL game was 1979. Dolphins-Raiders on MNF. I recently discovered the full game on youtube. Totally awesome.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
Again, so you say. As I intimated in my reply to @kingsboi, I don't believe in that "I guess I'm just built different" stuff. Never have, never will. What I believe is that Damian Lillard is simply more image conscious than most of his peers. I don't think that Damian Lillard the man, or Damian Lillard the basketball player, has any problems whatsoever with "superteams." But, Damian Lillard™ knows that that wouldn't play well with the people who consume his brand. So he keeps that to himself.
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Well, you can choose to believe whatever you want.

I just don’t share the same cynical POV.

I’ve never met and clearly don’t know Damian Lillard. But he’s given me no reason not to take him at his word.

Would you have the same POV if it was one of your WNBA stars saying the same? Would you essentially call them a liar too?

For me, I can tell with my own eyes that Dame Lillard is just a different breed of cat. He’s got a cold blooded confidence in him that the other 99.9% just doesn’t have.

If anyone is going to be confident enough to not feel good about a manufactured title — I’m betting my money on Dame being that guy. His actions with regard to remaining in Portland and not actively trying to team up with 2 or 3 other top 10 players further strengthens the point.
 
Mr. S£im Citrus said:
To the extent that this is true, how many of them were drafted after Jordan's second (1998) retirement?

I think you may have misspelled Pierce, Garnett and Allen? And we should be okay with it, because this culture is a monster of our own creation: if we, as consumers, hadn't spent every day since Jordan retired telling these players that their careers are zero sum, without a ring, maybe they wouldn't feel the burden of winning a ring, no matter what?


So you say. I don't believe that, for a second. If anything, I believe, to the contrary, that they want to be part of a "superteam," just as much as those other guys, they just (a) don't want to go somewhere else to form a "superteam," and (b) want to be able to say that they were "the guy," no matter what. If Damian Lillard thought that he could get Giannis Antetokounmpo to come to Portland, and defer to him, he'd be trying to recruit him, right now. I think that Lillard totally wants to be on a "superteam," he just doesn't want to be thought of as the guy who had to "ring chase." If he could get people to come to him, he would. In my opinion, the only difference between a guy like Lillard and a guy like Harden is that Harden doesn't care if we think that he's "weak" or "soft," for going to "chase" a ring. Lillard is just as "weak" as Harden is, he just doesn't want us to think that.


Right. He accepted it. That's why he's still in Oklahoma City.


Yeah, you'll never convince me on the myth of the "strong personality" in sports, so I guess I'll have to do that thing I hate, and agree to disagree.
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So on one side we have the Portland fans who don't want to see their superstar chase a ring by joining a superteam AND the player himself who prefers to be seen as a guy who does not chase rings by joining a superteam so he chooses to not do that as the best course of action for him . On the other side we have fans of the said player who want to see him win the ring and think he can only do that by leaving Portland and joining forces with other stars.

So to answer your question from post 343 as to why the Portland fans supersede the other group of fans, its because what they want aligns with the course of action the player in question has chosen for themselves. As an advocate of players and players rights (as opposed to team/fan demands), you should understand that.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Well, you can choose to believe whatever you want.

I just don’t share the same cynical POV.

I’ve never met and clearly don’t know Damian Lillard. But he’s given me no reason not to take him at his word.

Would you have the same POV if it was one of your WNBA stars saying the same? Would you essentially call them a liar too?

For me, I can tell with my own eyes that Dame Lillard is just a different breed of cat. He’s got a cold blooded confidence in him that the other 99.9% just doesn’t have.

If anyone is going to be confident enough to not feel good about a manufactured title — I’m betting my money on Dame being that guy. His actions with regard to remaining in Portland and not actively trying to team up with 2 or 3 other top 10 players further strengthens the point.
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as incredible as Dame is...... it should be a lesson for Kings fans you can’t get by with just a stellar back court and be below average on the wing.

The importance of getting an above average wing in this draft can’t be overstated.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
Not some kind of traveling. A lot of blatant traveling.

I already detailed some of it in the thread. I wish there was an easy way to post short videos, cause I’d be able to provide a ton of examples.
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did he score on any of the 3 pivot foot violations you noticed? cause if that's the case we can just look at one of those highlight videos on youtube where they show all the scoring/passing the player has done and we can just refer to timestamps? The reason I'm asking is that I don't see him traveling any more that other players. Now I might be wrong because I'm a fan, but in fact I have looked at some of his post moves that include pivots and he actually keeps the pivot foot pretty steady. The only thing that I can see people have an issue with is the "Sombor Shuffle" which is that turnaround type of of move where he shoots of one leg, but I don't think this is what you are referring to.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
I certainly won’t dispute that.

Although I do sometimes wonder if it’s all incompetence or agenda?
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There's agendas IMO, I feel like at times it's blantent. At the very least they let their egos and personal bias conciously affect their calls.

Timmy getting a T for laughing on the bench comes to mind, but there are plenty of others that happen in game. Like when they start calling ticky tack fouls on the guy prone to have an outburst (generally defender defending a star).

As a fan it's difficult to watch a game, becuase one game the guy can do X, the next game/ref the guy can't do X.

If I don't know the rules imagine playing out there. Its no wonder players work the refs so hard.
 
I grew up following a rugby team that had a bunch of one club guys so understand the sentiment. But there are so few moments in an NBA players career where they have any choice with who they play for or where they live half the year, I find it a bit hard to get upset if they want to move around. Also don't think we expect the same from teams - who will trade players or sit players if and when it suits them. Best you can hope for is a team goes to effort to create a nice working environment, values the players they have, the community that they are in, and puts together a competitive team that is fun to support.

In rugby league in Australia State of Origin is the closest thing they have to an all star game. It is as it sounds - players play for the state that they are from. Something like that could be fun with basketball but doubt it will ever happen.
 
sactowndog said:
as incredible as Dame is...... it should be a lesson for Kings fans you can’t get by with just a stellar back court and be below average on the wing.

The importance of getting an above average wing in this draft can’t be overstated.
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Perhaps because I am not a Portland fan living in Portland I can see that
a) Portland is probably never going to win a ring as long as I live here or probably live (though they got one in my lifetime, as well as another finals appearance)

and b) as a Kings fan I would trade places in a heartbeat.

All that said, Portland fans getting REALLLLLY antsy. Fire everyone threads today. Every player not Dame sucks - which to be fair, they sure did in OT yesterday. All I can tell them is be careful what you wish for. They've had good luck in being able to turn over the roster twice since I lived here and be nearly competitive. The year I moved here was the last year we made the playoffs.
 
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