NBA beat: Can't they all just get along? Well, uh, no...

VF21

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SME
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13623263p-14465639c.html

NBA beat: Can't they all just get along? Well, uh, no
From Europe to Miami, tempers have flared and will flare.
By Joe Davidson -- Bee Staff Writer
Published 2:15 am PDT Sunday, September 25, 2005

Today's team theme: chemistry.

It boiled over violently and embarrassingly so in the European Championships amid poor on-court performances and locker-room brawls, followed by coach and player defections. More on that mess later. OAS_AD('Button20');

In Miami, the Heat is trying to stockpile a monstrous roster for an NBA title run. With Shaquille O'Neal and Dwyane Wade already in place - and having just missed reaching the NBA Finals last season - Miami brought in a host of new talent starving for its own championship riches for an over-the-top push.

But is it too much? Too many proven ballhandlers and scorers and leading men who aren't ready for reduced roles, regardless of what they say now? Jason Williams presumably will start at point guard, but with Gary Payton now on board, how long before the man formerly good enough on defense to be known as "The Glove" squawks? He has started his entire basketball life. Williams has been known to be erratic, sitting a lot of fourth quarters in his Kings and Memphis Grizzlies stops.

Payton grumbled the last time he was in a title situation, with the Lakers two seasons ago. He's a nice fit in Florida if he accepts his off-the-bench assignment. That simple. And if he outplays Williams? Stay tuned. Should produce some fiery practice duels, at least.

What's more, Antoine Walker is going to want his shots. Alonzo Mourning will want more minutes, now that he'll have a full training camp under his belt. And Shaq needs his touches, too. Does it all put Stan Van Gundy under the microscope, with club president Pat Riley doing the viewing and perhaps itching at a coaching return, even though he angrily denied it earlier this summer? It's up to Shaq to father the load, and it'll all play out as one of the season's subplots.

Meanwhile, in San Antonio, the Spurs added two veterans accustomed to big minutes and tons of shots in Michael Finley and Nick Van Exel, yet neither will start, a condition they accepted for a chance to hoist the NBA hardware. For now.

Trouble in paradise

Serbia-Montenegro was supposed to be hugging and rejoicing about now, but the one man it missed the most wasn't even in uniform.

You think Vlade Divac - Captain Feel Good - would have allowed this sort of meltdown? Teammates tore into each other on a global stage. Players fought with opponents, the boiling point coming after a loss to Tony Parker and France. The former champs were ousted with a 2-2 mark, a disaster in a region of great basketball achievement and even greater expectations. The Kings' Peja Stojakovic decided not to play.

Serbia-Montenegro coach Zeljko Obradovic resigned, saying bickering players caused his club's "catastrophic play." He partly blamed himself. Captain Dejan Bodiroga was among three players who quit the team.

"The players had bad personal relations - their egos led to this shameful end," Obradovic told reporters covering the event. "My mistake was not throwing three or four of them off the team. They hate each other so much that they don't even look at each other."

Just like that, end of an era.

Barnes update

Matt Barnes attended the WNBA Finals-clinching game at Arco Arena on Tuesday, envious of the title feel and still wondering where he'll collect his next paycheck. The former Clippers, Kings and 76ers swingman with Sacramento roots said he had a tryout with the Spurs but may have been derailed by the Finley signing. He'd still love a return shot with the Kings.

"I'll be somewhere," he said.

Bobby Simmons, formerly of the Clippers and now with the Milwaukee Bucks, told The Bee's Sam Amick that Barnes is too good not to be in an NBA training camp, saying, "From watching Matt, he's gotten better over the course of time with the playing time he's received. He'll be long term (in the NBA), but he just has to find his niche. It takes going out there and getting rebounds, being a defender. You just have to pretty much fit in. Once he fits in, that'll determine how long he's in the NBA. I like Matt."

Hamilton's take on Evans

Detroit veteran Richard Hamilton told The Bee that former King Maurice Evans should boost the Pistons off the bench.

"(Evans) brings us a young athletic guy that can play multiple positions, really gets off his feet, can run the floor," he said. "Y'all have seen that in Sacramento. Hopefully he'll be a plus to our team." And Hamilton said some starters can rest easier knowing Evans can spell them.

"I think that we want to try and take some pressure off of us playing loads of minutes," Hamilton said. "In order for us to be successful, and get through the playoffs again, everybody has to be healthy, everybody has to be prepared to go for that long run, and the better the bench is, the better our team is. I've seen (Evans) play when we played against him. I know the guy puts his body on the line for anything. You want a guy who's confident, who wants to be here, and won't just settle for being in the NBA. All of us are workaholics, so he should be a great fit."

Baseline jumpers

* Former 76ers owner Pat Croce on the "Best Damn Sports Show Period" on keeping Larry Brown for six seasons, "To keep him there, I told him, 'If you leave, I'll break your legs.' "

* Once the Kings rescinded the qualifying offer to Darius Songaila, his agent, Mark Bartelstein, said there were "16 or 17 teams dying to get the guy." Chicago is dying for a playoff return with Songaila throwing his elbows in its colors.

* Shaquille O'Neal on ESPN's "Quite Frankly" on Phil Jackson's return to the NBA: "He went back for 7 (million a year). I could have gotten him 12 with Sacramento. All he had to do was call me."

* Because too many teams thought he wasn't starter-worthy and because the money just wasn't there, Vladimir Radmanovic has re-signed with Seattle for one more season, thus keeping the Sonics among the playoff lot.

* Richard Jefferson of the Nets on the "Wheel of Fortune" set, "I pray my wife looks like (Vanna White) at whatever age (Vanna) is."

* Jefferson on Bill Walton's showing on the WOF, "Bill got dead last. That's so bad. He was a big talker, but we're going to kill him now. Kill Bill."

* You could make a pretty prolific starting five with the NBA talent that watched the Monarchs nail down the WNBA championship at Arco Arena on Tuesday: Mike Bibby, Bobby Jackson, Andre Miller, Kevin Martin and Matt Barnes.

The Bee's Joe Davidson can be reached at (916) 321-1280 or jdavidson@sacbee.com.
 
#2
Well, like I said before, maybe the Kings are planning to sign Matt. But his agent was calling all over the league last we read, and I think the Spurs job is outta the picture.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#3
Bobby Simmons, formerly of the Clippers and now with the Milwaukee Bucks, told The Bee's Sam Amick that Barnes is too good not to be in an NBA training camp, saying, "From watching Matt, he's gotten better over the course of time with the playing time he's received. He'll be long term (in the NBA), but he just has to find his niche. It takes going out there and getting rebounds, being a defender. You just have to pretty much fit in. Once he fits in, that'll determine how long he's in the NBA. I like Matt."
I'm not going to give up hope about Barnes. I still maintain that having a hometown favorite who has loved this team all his life is something we could really use. Until and unless he signs with someone else, I'm going to keep the faith.
 

VF21

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#5
Coach said:
And who do you get rid of to make a roster spot for him?
We're talking about the very end of the bench. If I was Geoff Petrie, I'd make room for him. Is it logical? Maybe. Maybe not. But you don't run across a kid like Matt all that often. He brings intangibles and you certainly can't fault his heart, his dedication, etc. We'd be picking him up for the vet's minimum most likely. I've seen how well the Arco crowd responds to him. Those things are worth considering when you're looking to fill that last roster spot IMHO.
 
#9
Coach said:
Great. Now who do you get rid of?
well, if jason hart can continue his solid play, does bumping ronnie price to the nbdl create a roster spot (without getting rid of the 13th spot for a big man) for barnes?
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
If I understand the new CBA properly, a team can carry up to 14 on their roster. If they put players in the NBDL, those players count against the total 14.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
To be honest, I was more interested in the potential fireworks in Miami mentioned in this article.

Payton grumbled the last time he was in a title situation, with the Lakers two seasons ago. He's a nice fit in Florida if he accepts his off-the-bench assignment. That simple. And if he outplays Williams? Stay tuned. Should produce some fiery practice duels, at least.
The potential for meltdown between Payton and Jason is intriguing, to say the least.

;)
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
Jerryaki said:
well, if jason hart can continue his solid play, does bumping ronnie price to the nbdl create a roster spot (without getting rid of the 13th spot for a big man) for barnes?
Well, as it stands right now, here would be the roster with positions in order I think they should be played:

Starters
1.Miller -- C/PF
2.Abdur-Rahim -- PF/SF
3.Peja -- SF
4.Wells -- OG/SF
5.Bibby -- PG
Main Bench
6.Thomas -- PF/SF
7.Skinner -- PF/C
8.Hart -- PG
9.Martin -- OG
10.Garcia -- OG/SF/PG
11.Corliss -- SF/PF
Others
Sampson -- C/PF
Price -- PG/OG

Okay, so that would seem to mean:
1) 12th man duty seems to depend on whether you want to carry 3 PGs or 3 Cs on the active roster (but only if you count Skinner as a center). Maybe partially depending on how you feel about Garcia's ability to function as an emergency #3PG or Corliss's ability to function as an emergency 3rd string C. :eek: feel Garcia is much more likely and natural than the Corliss 6'5" center silliness.
2) If Barnes was going to fit, it would be in the 11th spot currently occupied by Corliss. It would make no sense to carry Barnes AND Corliss as guys 11 and 12 unless you were seriously going to call Corliss a 3rd string center or try to utilize Barnes' utility as a 3rd string PG. Both very dubious.
 
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#14
Just curious, why are Corliss and center ever in the same sentence/related? I know Rick used that back when Skinner and Brad were out, and Tag was in the doghouse/foul trouble (moreso the former with 'tag).
 
#15
VF21 said:
To be honest, I was more interested in the potential fireworks in Miami mentioned in this article.



The potential for meltdown between Payton and Jason is intriguing, to say the least.

;)
Here's a quote from an article from the Palm Beach Post:
According to them Payton will not be a starter..

"He has never had a guy like me to guide him," Payton said. "When I come into camp, I'm going to try to help him. I'm not going to try to beat him up or beat him down. It's been very hard coming from where I come from, starting all my time, but right now it's not about that. It's about what we have to accomplish to get to a championship."
"We all have to buy into winning basketball games and not let ego get in the way," he said.
(Hmmm..where have I heard that before??)


Yep...I say a meltdown is inevitable.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#16
hoopsfan said:
Here's a quote from an article from the Palm Beach Post:
According to them Payton will not be a starter..

"He has never had a guy like me to guide him," Payton said. "When I come into camp, I'm going to try to help him. I'm not going to try to beat him up or beat him down. It's been very hard coming from where I come from, starting all my time, but right now it's not about that. It's about what we have to accomplish to get to a championship."
"We all have to buy into winning basketball games and not let ego get in the way," he said.
(Hmmm..where have I heard that before??)


Yep...I say a meltdown is inevitable.
So, you are saying, "Easy to say.....buy, can't do." :p

I am on the meltdown is inevitable bandwagon. It will be fun to watch. Too bad! I like Wade.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#17
Bricklayer said:
Well, as it stands right now, here would be the roster with positions in order I think they should be played:

Starters
1.Miller -- C/PF
2.Abdur-Rahim -- PF/SF
3.Peja -- SF
4.Wells -- OG/SF
5.Bibby -- PG
Main Bench
6.Thomas -- PF/SF
7.Skinner -- PF/C
8.Hart -- PG
9.Martin -- OG
10.Garcia -- OG/SF/PG
11.Corliss -- SF/PF
Others
Sampson -- C/PF
Price -- PG/OG

Okay, so that would seem to mean:
1) 12th man duty seems to depend on whether you want to carry 3 PGs or 3 Cs on the active roster (but only if you count Skinner as a center). Maybe partially depending on how you feel about Garcia's ability to function as an emergency #3PG or Corliss's ability to function as an emergency 3rd string C. :eek: feel Garcia is much more likely and natural than the Corliss 6'5" center silliness.
2) If Barnes was going to fit, it would be in the 11th spot currently occupied by Corliss. It would make no sense to carry Barnes AND Corliss as guys 11 and 12 unless you were seriously going to call Corliss a 3rd string center or try to utilize Barnes' utility as a 3rd string PG. Both very dubious.
While everything you've pointed out is true, I am not going to be dissuaded by logic.

I like Matt Barnes and I would REALLY like to see him in a Kings uniform.

But it seems that wishes don't always come true. I never got that pony as a child, and it's looking more and more unlikely we'll have a slot for Matt. It's a shame because it's the kind of story that gives me a warm, fuzzy feeling. Just once in a while I like those happy endings...

------------------------------------------

As far as the whole Payton thing goes, I might even have to start a pool for all of us to make "friendly wagers" on exactly when the Mitten will implode.

;)
 
#18
I wonder if Matt goes back to Clippers, they have no back-up swingmen. Except for Singleton, though he is listed as a PF, but still. Houston also has little back-up swingmen. Along with Philly of course. I'm still hoping the Kings are planning to sign him, or another solid young swingman.
 
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#20
Kings113 said:
Just curious, why are Corliss and center ever in the same sentence/related? I know Rick used that back when Skinner and Brad were out, and Tag was in the doghouse/foul trouble (moreso the former with 'tag).
Well, Corliss has proven to be effective guarding Shaq. Moreso than many other players. Too bad he isn't in the conference anymore. It was so strange seeing Corliss on Shaq, it was like a beatle guarding an elephant, and the elephant getting really annoyed. Totaly bothered Shaq's center of gravity.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#22
jacobdrj said:
Well, Corliss has proven to be effective guarding Shaq. Moreso than many other players. Too bad he isn't in the conference anymore. It was so strange seeing Corliss on Shaq, it was like a beatle guarding an elephant, and the elephant getting really annoyed. Totaly bothered Shaq's center of gravity.
That's an aberration at best. Malik Rose could do the same thing for a while. Theoretically you can bother Shaq with a short, stout player. Unfortunately while you are goofing around, in the meantime you are getting killed on the boards and guys are flying to the unprotected rim. When Shaq was a 30ppg scorer, might have been worth it for brief stretches. Now? Not even close.

Basically Corliss is a strong tough guy. When matched against a guy who relies purely on brute strength and pushing his way through you to the hoop (ala Shaq or Fortson), Corliss can brace his feet and stand his ground wth some effect. But against anybody who uses his height, moblity, quickness etc. as well as strength, it doesn't work.
 
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#23
Didn't think this needed a thread, but are interesting blurbs from the Chicago Tribune (off insidehoops.com, have to sign-up to the tribune to see the full link):

"Everyone will be watching for a slow Miami start to see when Riley returns to coaching. The other most-likely-to-go-with-a-slow-start coach is Sacramento's solid Rick Adelman, who wasn't all that thrilled with the Kings' open courtship of Phil Jackson last summer." Chicago Tribune

"Your early most-likely-to-be-traded team includes: San Antonio's Rasho Nesterovic, Portland's Theo Ratliff and Atlanta's Al Harrington and Tony Delk." Chicago Tribune

"Former Bull Craig Hodges is working as a Lakers shooting coach." Chicago Tribune

"Joe Johnson will be paid 43 percent of Atlanta's total payroll this season." Chicago Tribune
They're dead wrong on Adelman, and clearly don't read the Sacbee ;).
 
#24
HOLY CRAP I completely forgot how Payton signed with the Heat...yeah thats gonna be a soap opera for sure...

Its gonna take them longer than it usually it would take teams to adjust just cuz they have a lot more new faces and the egos o the egos...the Miami Heat do look like a fantasy team its gonna be ridiculously interesting to watch