MVP Race and No Fox?

[KingsFanSince85]

Look, I get it. The KINGS haven’t been relevant for umpteen years and aren’t a darling NBA franchise.

But based upon this season ONLY and the current success of the KINGS as the #2 seed in the Western Conference — how can any NBA analyst not have De’Aaron Fox among the top 5 candidates for MVP and feel good about the job they are getting paid to do?

I was just watching NBATV and they listed their “KIA MVP LADDER” which was the following: 1-Jokic, 2-Giannis, 3-Tatum, 4-Embiid, and 5- #77

Now, I can certainly understand the top 4, though I would definitely argue the order.

But having #77 at #5 over Fox and even a few other players? Give me a break!

Dallas is barely .500 and 5.5 games behind the KINGS. They’re 2 games from being out of a play-in spot.

How freaking valuable can #77 actually be?

Meanwhile De’Aaron is SAC’s leading scorer and has been #1 in clutch Q4 points for sometime and has his team at #2 in the West yet these pundits somehow believe #77 has been more valuable than him?

What a joke.

FWIW, I’d have Giannis #1, Embiid #2, Jokic #3, Tatum #4 then Swipa at #5 in place of #77.

Though an argument for Domas could also be made from the KINGS, as well as Donovan Mitchell from the Cavs and both Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle from the Knicks for that #5 spot.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Not sure which ladder is which but thought I heard Domas is 8 in one?
I do think it's well past time that #77 starts being evaluated for his maturity level the way Boogie was when he was here.

 

[hrdboild]

The way MVP's are typically given out, Fox and Domas aren't really in consideration. Neither is top 10 in scoring, a former MVP winner, averaging a triple-double, or the best player on a team with a .700 winning percentage. But if we talk about what MVP is supposed to mean by definition, you could certainly make a case for both Fox (because of his lead in clutch scoring) and Sabonis (because he's the focal point of the best offense in league history). It's a shame they won't get more than a cursory mention, if that, but I'm really more interested in playoff wins at this point than awards. And to their credit, I think both those guys would say the same.

We'll likely see a different attitude toward the Kings from national media next season -- but first they'll need to show up in the playoffs and make people respect them.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Is there some reason that you won't say the name Doncic?

 

[The_Jamal]

Eh, no. As good as both guys have been, they're a tier or 2 below the top guys in the league.

I think All-NBA is where they should be getting their love on the national stage. For Domas, he's 3rd All-NBA and it's not really all that close. Unfortunately, with the Lakers recent push and how AD is playing, they're likely going to cave and give him the slot because....Lakers.

For Fox, I'd clearly go Luka, Don Mitchell, Dame as clearly ahead. Maybe SGA. Maybe Jrue Holiday, who has been incredible on both ends this season

After that though? There's a non-zero chance Ja doesn't play the rest of this season, depending how some of the off-court issues play out. Hard to see voters rewarding that conduct off the floor. Even without that hanging over him though, Fox has a statistical case over Ja this season. Steph probably doesn't have enough games. Harden is a close call. Hali would be a close call but I think he's probably missed too many games to give him a nod over Fox. Trae and Murray just not good enough this year. Brunson and Garland would have a case, but I think Fox is a few spots ahead of both guys. Book could have a case but he's missed too much time this year.

Fox unfortunately won't get the love he deserves, but he really is right there for an All-NBA slot this season. Would leave a real sour taste in my mouth if Dame/SGA get one over him and miss the playoffs; even if they do deserve it with their individual prowess. That was the excuse we heard forever with the Boogie years and Fox the last few seasons. And now that we're good, being on a good team doesn't matter as much? Bleh.

 

[The_Jamal]

Thinking a bit more, I think i'd lock Luka-Mitchell-Dame-Jrue Holiday. Ja, if we're leaving him in. And then Fox vs SGA vs Harden for that last spot. If we're kicking Ja out, I don't think I could live with both Dame and SGA on non-playoff teams being in over both Fox and Harden, so I think they'd take the last 2 slots.

Tons of really deserving guards this year. All of Ja/Fox/Brunson/SGA/Harden/Hali/Garland/Booker/Steph+ the 4 I locked would have a statistical case to get in. Just have to really nitpick to grind down who gets it.

 

[kingsboi]

I'd imagine to be considered in the MVP conversation, there needs to be a bigger track record and whether that player can transform his game in the Postseason. I could be wrong and since journalists vote for this, they simply may not know he exists.

 

[206Fan]

Luka: 33.3pts 8.7asts 8rebs 1.5stls on 50.3/35/73.6

Fox: 25.5pts 6.3asts 4.3rebs 1.1stls on 51.5/32.7/78.9

I'm sorry but it's not particularly close for Fox. Even as the #2 seed, we're closer to Dallas at #8 than we are to Denver at #1.

If anything, Sabonis is the guy who deserves the MVP nod from our team. He's literally our entire offense outside of the last 2 mins in the 4th quarter.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Honestly Fox should win the clutch award by a mile going away, I suspect he'll get jobbed to one of the lesser MVP candidates because it's a media vote, even though there are multiple advanced stats that show Fox is dominant in the category.

I'd be delighted with Fox winning Mr. Clutch and Domas getting top 10 consideration.

Mike Brown IS coach of the year (interesting note but Bill Simmons has really soured on Joe Maz as of late), and Monte should but probably won't be Exec of Year even though he was the crazy malpractice guy that brought Domas here in the first place. I am not sure if Brown comes without Domas.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Eh, no. As good as both guys have been, they're a tier or 2 below the top guys in the league.

For Fox, I'd clearly go Luka, Don Mitchell, Dame as clearly ahead. Maybe SGA. Maybe Jrue Holiday, who has been incredible on both ends this season
.

I don’t see any valid argument for any of the names on your list, especially those you say are “clearly“ ahead with the lone exception of Donovan Mitchell.

Clearly ahead, how? Please explain.

We’re not talking ”most outstanding” or “most exciting” player. We’re not talking All-Star spots. Things that are almost entirely based upon individual performance absent of team success.

While MVP isn’t usually what it’s supposed to be about, it still combines individual success with team success.

Of your list, only Donovan Mitchell and Jrue Holiday’s teams are out performing De’Aaron Fox’ team. And unfortunately for Jrue, he plays second fiddle to Giannis.

Regardless, I definitely see valid arguments for both Mitchell and Holiday. But I don’t see any path toward a valid argument for the others.

So they score more? Or are closer to averaging triple doubles?? So what? The difference isn’t near enough to overcome the fact that Dallas is a .500 team and Portland is 4 games under .500. Chances are good that Portland doesn’t even make the play-in.

When you combine Fox’s numbers and his Q4 and clutch performances along with his teams record and #2 seed — it’s a greater resume for MVP than #77 and Dame.

It appears to me that you are factoring in reputation and past performances into the equation. And it doesn’t belong. Because basing solely upon this current season and using both individual and team accomplishments, those guys are behind the 8-ball.

Circling back to Mitchell and Holiday, they certainly have a valid case.

The top 4 I listed have the best cases of all.

 

[Tetsujin]

Honestly Fox should win the clutch award by a mile going away, I suspect he'll get jobbed to one of the lesser MVP candidates because it's a media vote, even though there are multiple advanced stats that show Fox is dominant in the category.

I'd be delighted with Fox winning Mr. Clutch and Domas getting top 10 consideration.

Mike Brown IS coach of the year (interesting note but Bill Simmons has really soured on Joe Maz as of late), and Monte should but probably won't be Exec of Year even though he was the crazy malpractice guy that brought Domas here in the first place. I am not sure if Brown comes without Domas.

Joe Mazzula having the late game clock management skills of a kid playing 2k for the first time probably has something to do with it.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Luka: 33.3pts 8.7asts 8rebs 1.5stls on 50.3/35/73.6

Fox: 25.5pts 6.3asts 4.3rebs 1.1stls on 51.5/32.7/78.9

I'm sorry but it's not particularly close for Fox. Even as the #2 seed, .

This is just lunacy. It’s disregarding team success. And Q4/clutch production. And where we are to date.

Of course things can change the last 18 games. But as things stand today, DeAaron’s team is the #2 seed with HCA in the 1st two rounds while #77’s team is one game over .500 and hoping to cling to a play-in spot.

The fact that he “averages” more points, rebounds and assists doesn’t swing the pendulum.

On that point, he should have higher averages across the board considering how ball dominant he is in that offense vs how much the KINGS share the ball and that Domas‘ production certainly curtails what Fox could do if he was asked to be as ball dominant. He’d probably be posting similar scoring numbers to SGA given that scenario. He’s clearly capable of it, given the recent run of 30 point games he just posted.

Lastly, how does #77 compare to Fox when it comes to Q4 and clutch points? That’s the other area, along with team success, that tips the scales in Swipa’s favor and erases the differences in points, rebounds and assists averages.

It’s clear to me you’re either overlooking, purposely ignoring, or drastically undervaluing those factors.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Is there some reason that you won't say the name Doncic?

Yes.

It goes back to the 2018 draft and the unforgivable decision that was made that day, along with the weeks and months of fallout on this forum. There’s a longer story to it and more reasoning behind it, but there’s the short version for ya.

It is in no way throwing shade or hate at #77 as a player or person. FWIW, I was all-in on the KINGS drafting that kid.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Joe Mazzula having the late game clock management skills of a kid playing 2k for the first time probably has something to do with it.

Yeah more or less it seems the issue is game management and what to do when the team isn't coaching itself. I don't want to say it's a Luke Walton situation, but dude was handed the keys to a Ferrari and has thus far proven he can drive fast.

It's probably also worth noting that Kerr and Brown outcoached Udoka and Mazzula last year because that series and title was there for the taking.

 

[Remi]

Look, I get it. The KINGS haven’t been relevant for umpteen years and aren’t a darling NBA franchise.
..how can any NBA analyst not have De’Aaron Fox among the top 5 candidates for MVP and feel good about the job they are getting paid to do?

I was just watching NBATV and they listed their “KIA MVP LADDER” which was the following: 1-Jokic, 2-Giannis, 3-Tatum, 4-Embiid, and 5- #77
...
Though an argument for Domas could also be made from the KINGS, as well as Donovan Mitchell from the Cavs and both Jalen Brunson and Julius Randle from the Knicks for that #5 spot.

Not sure which ladder is which but thought I heard Domas is 8 in one?
I do think it's well past time that #77 starts being evaluated for his maturity level the way Boogie was when he was here.

Sabonis was in this ladder almost all this season, just he was mostly in 10-15 place. But latelly, with Kings successs and rising in West, Sabonis was ranked higher: previously was at rank 10 and at that lastly announced ladder Domas was in 8th place.
I already posted before the link with latest MVP ladder, where Sabonis is on 8th place. But who missed, here you are >>> https://www.nba.com/news/kia-mvp-ladder-march-3-2023-edition

About De Aaron - as there is already 1 person from Kings at MVP ladder, so 2nd person from Kings basically is not possible (like Antetekounmpo and Holiday).

 

[GWD]

Ha, ha. The Kings would have to win out from here and sweep every playoff series to get the big trophy for MVP consideration NEXT YEAR.

Small market town, virtually no national TV (today excepted), breakout year compared to long-term contribution, and belittling by the media all working against the Kings getting any honors.

 

[funkykingston]

This morning at the gym they were talking about the "race" in the West. Their graphic started with Phoenix at number 4 and down to the battle for the play-in. So strange. It's like the media is going out of their way to NOT talk about the Kings. So yes, it will always be an uphill battle for recognition when Sacramento is playing well. But MVP voting is generally about either the best player on the team that wings the most games, or a player with league leading numbers on a top 3 contender in either conference. Fox & Domas don't really fit either. They are very good, all-NBA 3rd team level players on a team that (barring a late season collapse) will likely finish somewhere between 2nd & 4th in the West and around 6-9th in overall league record.

This Kings team has exceeded most of our expectations and definitely those of the "pundits". That's enough for now. If they can sustain this success or improve upon it in seasons to come the recognition will start to be there more and more.

 

[Vinny Basketballerino]

It's like tHe mEdiA is going out of their way to NOT talk about the Kings.

I love this. Keep it coming as far as I'm concerned. Will be sweeter when The Universe Is Restored.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

To be very clear, the point of creating this thread/discussion wasn’t to complain about Swipa not being one of the top couple favorites for MVP. I fully realize that Giannis, Jokic, Embiid and Tatum are miles ahead for obvious reasons.

But beyond those 4 players, it really doesn’t make sense to have many, if any, players ahead of De’Aaron given the circumstances of this season which have been laid out multiple times.

De’Aaron is leading the team with the 6th best record in the NBA as of today, and the top 4 candidates for MVP are leading 4 of the 5 teams currently ahead of SAC in the standings. The other is Cleveland and Donovan Mitchell, who also should NOT be listed behind the likes of #77 either.

It’s laughable, given the idea of best player on teams with best records criteria.

You cannot convince me that had LBJ joined the KINGS this season and the exact same circumstances were in place with SAC being the #2 seed with the #1 possibly historic offense (with him leading the way with the same #’s as Fox) that he wouldn’t be a top 5 candidate for MVP.

If all it takes is changing the players name in this equation, rather than production or team success — that really says it all. And hammer home my main point. Based off production, Q4/clutch greatness, and team success to this point, De’Aaron Fox is a better candidate than all but 4 or 5 guys.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

De’Aaron is leading the team with the 6th best record in the NBA as of today, and the top 4 candidates for MVP are leading 4 of the 5 teams currently ahead of SAC in the standings. The other is Cleveland and Donovan Mitchell, who also should NOT be listed behind the likes of #77 either.

The media are obsessed with giving Luka an award. I will probably never not be upset we passed over our chance to draft him but not everything that's going on in Dallas can be blamed on everyone but Luka. He has some accountability as well. The sad thing is the MVP is so far out of reach that he seemed to have been granted frontrunner status for the clutch award in the mid-season media poll despite no stats to bear that out. On reddit Mavs fans are even saying the team hasn't won a game on the final possession in ages, if not all season. I do know Kidd seems to have one go to play for final possessions that has been anything but automatic and since Kyrie showed up there has been nothing but confusion surrounding who will take the final shot. We saw that in our second game with them.

 

[The_Jamal]

I don’t see any valid argument for any of the names on your list, especially those you say are “clearly“ ahead with the lone exception of Donovan Mitchell.

Clearly ahead, how? Please explain.

We’re not talking ”most outstanding” or “most exciting” player. We’re not talking All-Star spots. Things that are almost entirely based upon individual performance absent of team success.

While MVP isn’t usually what it’s supposed to be about, it still combines individual success with team success.

Of your list, only Donovan Mitchell and Jrue Holiday’s teams are out performing De’Aaron Fox’ team. And unfortunately for Jrue, he plays second fiddle to Giannis.

Regardless, I definitely see valid arguments for both Mitchell and Holiday. But I don’t see any path toward a valid argument for the others.

So they score more? Or are closer to averaging triple doubles?? So what? The difference isn’t near enough to overcome the fact that Dallas is a .500 team and Portland is 4 games under .500. Chances are good that Portland doesn’t even make the play-in.

When you combine Fox’s numbers and his Q4 and clutch performances along with his teams record and #2 seed — it’s a greater resume for MVP than #77 and Dame.

It appears to me that you are factoring in reputation and past performances into the equation. And it doesn’t belong. Because basing solely upon this current season and using both individual and team accomplishments, those guys are behind the 8-ball.

Circling back to Mitchell and Holiday, they certainly have a valid case.

The top 4 I listed have the best cases of all.

I'm not going to waste a quality stat post on you (no offense) because I know you'll just disregard it. But the top 4 guys I locked are statistically just better than Fox this season and in Dame's case, enough where it counteracts the team success difference.

Team success matters, but it's not everything to me in an individual award. It should be a combination of both. And just depends on the person how much they want to rate each side of that coin.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

I'm not going to waste a quality stat post on you (no offense) because I know you'll just disregard it. But the top 4 guys I locked are statistically just better than Fox this season and in Dame's case, enough where it counteracts the team success difference.

Team success matters, but it's not everything to me in an individual award. It should be a combination of both. And just depends on the person how much they want to rate each side of that coin.

I wouldn’t disregard it, Jamal. Just as I wouldn’t accuse you of disregarding all the factual evidence I’ve cited.

We just clearly disagree on how much these factors all matter and weigh in. That’s the gist of it. There are greater tragedies in the world.

IDC if Dame was averaging 50 points per game. His team is 4 games under .500 and currently out of even the play-in. They are in a 3-way tie for 3rd to last in the 15-team conference.

No quality stat post can overcome that harsh reality. As if Portland couldn’t possibly be 3rd to last without him?

Also, among the quality stats that you could post, I know none of them could have Dame or #77 ahead of De’Aaron Fox WRT clutch performance this season. Because De’Aaron is and has been the leader for much of the season.

While Domas has been awesome this season, he’s also fouled out more times than anyone else in the league and otherwise been in foul trouble enough to where Fox has almost single-handedly been closing and/or rescuing the KINGS all season. He’s the biggest reason the KINGS have been able to finish off games or come back in many of them.

I find that much more “valuable” than higher point, rebound, and assist averages, or other advanced stats, that haven’t translated to more wins and better playoff positioning. But clearly we disagree there.

Again, no worries. I still like reading your takes, as well as others with whom I disagree.

 

[The_Jamal]

I wouldn’t disregard it, Jamal. Just as I wouldn’t accuse you of disregarding all the factual evidence I’ve cited.

We just clearly disagree on how much these factors all matter and weigh in. That’s the gist of it. There are greater tragedies in the world.

IDC if Dame was averaging 50 points per game. His team is 4 games under .500 and currently out of even the play-in. They are in a 3-way tie for 3rd to last in the 15-team conference.

No quality stat post can overcome that harsh reality. As if Portland couldn’t possibly be 3rd to last without him?

Also, among the quality stats that you could post, I know none of them could have Dame or #77 ahead of De’Aaron Fox WRT clutch performance this season. Because De’Aaron is and has been the leader for much of the season.

While Domas has been awesome this season, he’s also fouled out more times than anyone else in the league and otherwise been in foul trouble enough to where Fox has almost single-handedly been closing and/or rescuing the KINGS all season. He’s the biggest reason the KINGS have been able to finish off games or come back in many of them.

I find that much more “valuable” than higher point, rebound, and assist averages, or other advanced stats, that haven’t translated to more wins and better playoff positioning. But clearly we disagree there.

Again, no worries. I still like reading your takes, as well as others with whom I disagree.

Hadn't really thought through an MVP ladder, but I think I'd probably have Domas top 5 and Fox somewhere 10-15. They've both been absurdly valuable this season, turned around a 16-year losing franchise and have the team at the 2 seed in the West with only a month to go. So it's not like I'm some huge delta away from where you are, just a few rungs lower.

But All-NBA and MVP aren't just team accomplishments to me. Sounds like you weigh that very heavily, which is fine. Otherwise, every individual award would just come from the best guys on the top 5-6 teams in the NBA. Which, it should weigh heavily towards that bias (and most likely because the stars on those teams are deserving), but that also leads to real bias which kept out our own guys in the past (Boogie, a couple Fox years, etc).

 

[KingsFanSince85]

Hadn't really thought through an MVP ladder, but I think I'd probably have Domas top 5 and Fox somewhere 10-15. They've both been absurdly valuable this season, turned around a 16-year losing franchise and have the team at the 2 seed in the West with only a month to go. So it's not like I'm some huge delta away from where you are, just a few rungs lower.

But All-NBA and MVP aren't just team accomplishments to me. Sounds like you weigh that very heavily, which is fine. Otherwise, every individual award would just come from the best guys on the top 5-6 teams in the NBA. Which, it should weigh heavily towards that bias (and most likely because the stars on those teams are deserving), but that also leads to real bias which kept out our own guys in the past (Boogie, a couple Fox years, etc).

How about this? Can we combine the accomplishments and merits of both Domas AND Fox for the award? Lol

Cause it would be hard to find TWO players that have tipped the scales as far the other direction and been more valuable as a pair then those two this season.

Giannis and Jrue, of course. Embiid and Harden. Jokic and Murray. Randle and Brunson, maybe.

But outside of them, it’s hard to find two players that have played enough games together to surpass the Fox and the Ox. Especially when you add the weight of likely exercising the longest playoff drought in major sports history.

 

[CoatCheckDream]

They could probably charge fans extra to watch 4th quarter Fox and get away with it

 

[Fantazija]

The way Kings are going about winning is perfect in my humble opinion.You have Domas dominating the first 3 quarters( and others getting involved obviously) and Foxy taking over in the 4th.I think it's a recipe that can have a success in a playoffs.Hard to rely on a big man being a difference maker in the 4th quarter but Kings don't have to.

 

[bball_nomad]

Domas will get the nod. He is the engine of the Kings. Fox, no matter how good he is, is a top clutch player. IF Kings had a better start for the season, maybe the talk would be different. 3+ more wins in a W column and we would be chasing Denver.
A little patience. Kings have just 1 loss after the AS break. If we make some strong noise in the play-offs and start next season as we are capable, both Domas and Fox should be "on the ladder' next season.
Starters play very well, Domas and Fox among them are just exceptional. we have 5+ bench players who are a nightmare for other benches. This season we need to make to the conference finals and we are capable of that. Then - who knows???
I felt a little setback coming before Minny game. Good thing - after that 2 solid wins against 2 solid teams. One game at the time.
50 wins this season? Anyone?

 

[KingsFanSince85]

The way Kings are going about winning is perfect in my humble opinion.You have Domas dominating the first 3 quarters( and others getting involved obviously) and Foxy taking over in the 4th.I think it's a recipe that can have a success in a playoffs.Hard to rely on a big man being a difference maker in the 4th quarter but Kings don't have to.

I was thinking about posting something similar, but you beat me to the punch.

IMO you are exactly right, not only about the KINGS winning formula, but the fact that post players typically cannot be counted on in the waning moments of games (for various reasons).

I was gonna liken it to the Shaq-Kobe dymanic, or even Duncan-Parker-Ginobili dynamic.

During the LAL dominant run in the early 2000's, Shaq was clearly the most dominant force not only on that team but in the entire NBA. Problem was, he became, let's say, less effective in the final 5 minutes and especially in the last seconds of the game.

His free throw shooting woes were only 1 part of that equation, but another is that he couldn't handle the ball thus had to rely upon others to get the ball and then had to deal with the extra contact that is usually permitted at the end of games. As a result, Kobe had to be the closer.

Same formula applied to the Spurs. Duncan was the engine that drove the Spurs for the 1st 40-45 minutes, but either Parker or Ginobili had to close out the games.

The KINGS are working off the same formula. They largely run the offense through Domas for 40-45 minutes then defer to Swipa to close.

The added bonus De-Aaron brings to the table is his speed which also allows him to freelance and dictate pace in the open court throughout the game. It's not always the case that one player has both abilities. To dictate pace in transition throughout the 48 minute game AND to be an effective closer by getting any offensive shot he wants and occasionally making game-changing defensive steals.

We can debate which is more valuable. It's very much like a "chicken or the egg" riddle. If you're not in the game for the first 45, the final 3 don't matter. But if you're in the game for the first 45 and don't have a closer -- you are bound to lose more than win.

That's precisely the situation the KINGS were in during the Boogie Cousins era. They had no closer. Imagine this season's De'Aaron Fox with prime Boogie Cousins? SMH. It'd be very similar to what we're seeing now.

Even the glory era KINGS of 1998-2004 suffered from the same problem until they landed Mike Bibby. Then they suddenly propelled themselves from an exciting offensive team that would lose during the 1st couple rounds to a legitimate title contender.

This current team is pretty darned good already, but they might be another deep shooter and a legitimate wing defender away from really causing the likes of Milwaukee, Philly, Denver, and possibly a healthy Suns team some serious problems.

 

[midtowner]

I was thinking about posting something similar, but you beat me to the punch.

IMO you are exactly right, not only about the KINGS winning formula, but the fact that post players typically cannot be counted on in the waning moments of games (for various reasons).

I was gonna liken it to the Shaq-Kobe dymanic, or even Duncan-Parker-Ginobili dynamic.

During the LAL dominant run in the early 2000's, Shaq was clearly the most dominant force not only on that team but in the entire NBA. Problem was, he became, let's say, less effective in the final 5 minutes and especially in the last seconds of the game.

His free throw shooting woes were only 1 part of that equation, but another is that he couldn't handle the ball thus had to rely upon others to get the ball and then had to deal with the extra contact that is usually permitted at the end of games. As a result, Kobe had to be the closer.

Same formula applied to the Spurs. Duncan was the engine that drove the Spurs for the 1st 40-45 minutes, but either Parker or Ginobili had to close out the games.

The KINGS are working off the same formula. They largely run the offense through Domas for 40-45 minutes then defer to Swipa to close.

The added bonus De-Aaron brings to the table is his speed which also allows him to freelance and dictate pace in the open court throughout the game. It's not always the case that one player has both abilities. To dictate pace in transition throughout the 48 minute game AND to be an effective closer by getting any offensive shot he wants and occasionally making game-changing defensive steals.

We can debate which is more valuable. It's very much like a "chicken or the egg" riddle. If you're not in the game for the first 45, the final 3 don't matter. But if you're in the game for the first 45 and don't have a closer -- you are bound to lose more than win.

That's precisely the situation the KINGS were in during the Boogie Cousins era. They had no closer. Imagine this season's De'Aaron Fox with prime Boogie Cousins? SMH. It'd be very similar to what we're seeing now.

Even the glory era KINGS of 1998-2004 suffered from the same problem until they landed Mike Bibby. Then they suddenly propelled themselves from an exciting offensive team that would lose during the 1st couple rounds to a legitimate title contender.

This current team is pretty darned good already, but they might be another deep shooter and a legitimate wing defender away from really causing the likes of Milwaukee, Philly, Denver, and possibly a healthy Suns team some serious problems.

Another good example is the 2014/2015 Hawks. It was a great team - but they didn’t have any great Iso players (Milsap was good, not great). One of the best team offenses I’ve seen, but in the NBA you need someone to be HIM come playoffs.

“The entire starting five of Jeff Teague, Kyle Korver, DeMarre Carroll, Paul Millsap, and Al Horford were named NBA's Player of the Month for January, becoming the first group of five to do so in the history of the league. All of them but Carroll were named All-Stars, as the Hawks were the team with most All-Star participants that year.”