Michael Jordan Playoff Game Winning/Tying Shots vs LeBron & Kobe

[Peter_Gibbons]

http://chasing23.com/michael-jordan-game-winning-shots/

MJ 50%

Kobe 26.1%

LeBron 41.7%

I'm glad they finally went back and recorded this stat for MJ. A lot of kobe and LeBron fans were starting to say things like "MJ's percentage was low too, he is lucky they don't have record of his #s".


This is just another category that shows you why NEITHER kobe or LeBron will ever come close to MJ.

In last night's game, they showed a stat for the first 9 games in the finals for each player, MJ's stats was something like 32 pts, 7 or 8 assists, 9.8 rebs & 53% shooting.
Kobe's was 19 pts, 39% shooting.

MJ, stil the GOAT by far.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

MJ, stil the GOAT by far.

If you're only opening up the discussion to those 3 players, sure. Still think Russell, Oscar and Magic have very strong cases and Wilt belongs in the discussion as well.

Certainly LeBron is in striking distance of that 50% which should hardly be THE criteria to determine these things. LeBron kissed any chance of that honor goodbye when he chose to become Wade's Pippen.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Of course the game winners are not the only thing. But if you look at everything, MJ beats these 2 guys to dust in almost all categories. I posted this because this was a stat that was previously a mystery and open to perception. Now we know.

As far as Wilt & Russell, I heard they were great and watched clips here and there. But I'm not old enough to have watched their games in their era so I can't say they are greater than others. But it is widely accepted that the league back in those days weren't as competitive. As for Oscar, yes he was great but again I haven't seen enough of him other than some ESPN classics games. Magic was a great player and I watched a lot of him growing up, but he is not MJ.

 

[Glenn]

Of course the game winners are not the only thing. But if you look at everything, MJ beats these 2 guys to dust in almost all categories. I posted this because this was a stat that was previously a mystery and open to perception. Now we know.

As far as Wilt & Russell, I heard they were great and watched clips here and there. But I'm not old enough to have watched their games in their era so I can't say they are greater than others. But it is widely accepted that the league back in those days weren't as competitive. As for Oscar, yes he was great but again I haven't seen enough of him other than some ESPN classics games. Magic was a great player and I watched a lot of him growing up, but he is not MJ.

What do you mean the league wasn't as competitive? If there are 8 teams and all the best players are concentrated on those 8 teams instead of thirty, each opponent is stronger. Wilt and Oscar dominated. Maybe it's because they were great.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

What do you mean the league wasn't as competitive? If there are 8 teams and all the best players are concentrated on those 8 teams instead of thirty, each opponent is stronger. Wilt and Oscar dominated. Maybe it's because they were great.

That's what I think. Comparing eras can be an exercise in frivolity but for my money the 90s aren't the high point of NBA competitiveness. From the late 80s expansion to the Euro influx of the late 90s the talent was concentrated on a small handful of teams. The early to mid 80s will likely be the era I'll remember most fondly. But when there were only 8 teams it is hard to imagine they didn't all have 12 deep lineups.

 

[Glenn]

That's what I think. Comparing eras can be an exercise in frivolity but for my money the 90s aren't the high point of NBA competitiveness. From the late 80s expansion to the Euro influx of the late 90s the talent was concentrated on a small handful of teams. The early to mid 80s will likely be the era I'll remember most fondly. But when there were only 8 teams it is hard to imagine they didn't all have 12 deep lineups.

I still have a conflict in my mind of who is better: Jordan or Wilt. I grant Jordan did all the great things and was a wonderful guy to watch. He was an extraordinary athlete. At the same time if you look at the record book to see what Wilt accomplished, you have to shake your head in disbelief. How do you average 50 points a game in a season? Or 22 rbds per game over a career? How does a center lead the league in assists? He did whatever the coach wanted. Some teams needed him to score but when he was with the Lakers, they just needed a role player so he lead the league in assists. I may think Jordan is the best in history but I would also be able to mount a great argument that Wilt was. Unlike his womanizing claims, his accomplishments on the court are documented.

There MUST be something in the way stats were kept or the game was played to account for some of this because the rebounding stats are unbelievable.

But this thread isn't about that.

 

[est.1999]

Wilt only got 2 rings though and only beat Russell once. People say he dominated the game, but then many people wanna discredit anything lebron James does throughout his career because he doesn't have any rings. And believe me, I am in no way trying to back him up for this finals' disaster. Jordan imposed his will on players. He never cracked. How many HOF'ers don't have rings because they played in the Jordan era and he denied them so many times? The Dream goes to sleep happy every night because Jordan decided to take a couple years off.

Nobody can touch Jordan. His skill. His power. His will. His athleticism. His heart. His brains. He had it all. Don't think we'll ever see another athlete like him, let alone another basketball player.

 

[IfAt1st]

uh - pretty easy to explain Wilt's dominance and numbers - he was the tallest/biggest/strongest guy on the court most every single night of his career, and the game was very predictable back then. The center just scooped up all the missed baskets and FT's since he was standing underneath the basket.

MJ was not the biggest/strongest of his time - by the time MJ played, professional sports (and $$$!) were so strong that everyone in the world was competing at the highest level.

These old, pre-contemporary sports records should be in a different category than nowadays, IMO - all of them.
The baseball records especially are a joke - to think that those old pitchers who simply threw a billion pitches for ridiculous numbers of innings are as good as the pitchers nowadays is absurd. Those guys couldn't hold the jock of these athletes nowadays.

Similarly, if you don't think that some huge guys nowadays (especially Shaq, but hell I'd love to see what Demarcus could do in the 50's) couldn't have gone back in time and done just what Wilt did (and more), well we'll just have to disagree.

But if anyone thinks that someone else plopped into the 80's could replicate what MJ did (even Kobe) would have a much tougher argument to make, IMO.

 

[est.1999]

^^^ I agree with you(as my point stated) but I'd also acknowledge that had the old days' athletes been around today they'd be training the same way as today's players and they'd be just as strong and athletic. It's not fair for people to say plug this player back then and see how much he dominates and then not be able to say let those old days' players have a chance to live and train in this era.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Russell was not the biggest player of his day and is the reason Wilt didn't win during Russell's career. The guy was a defensive beast and a brilliant basketball mind for his time.

FWIW, Jordan didn't do what he did in the 80s either, it was the 90s and after the Lakers and Celtics and other also rans that were actually pretty damn special teams were running on fumes or already dead and buried.

Personally I do think rings matter so it is between Russell, Jordan and Magic for me. And most times I don't think there is a clear number one. Since MJ, I don't think anyone even belongs in the discussion. If Kobe can make another run or two post-Phil then maybe. LBJ seems to be fading after every big game/defining moment.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

What do you mean the league wasn't as competitive? If there are 8 teams and all the best players are concentrated on those 8 teams instead of thirty, each opponent is stronger. Wilt and Oscar dominated. Maybe it's because they were great.

There are countless ways you can look at it. But basketball wasn't as big a deal as it is today. There weren't as many people wanting to play bball which actually gives you a smaller quality pool of people. I already said though, I don't rate those guys because I didn't get to watch them.