Martin for Tyrus Thomas & $6.6 Mill Expiring

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Don't beat up on me too badly. This is my first time at this...

Out: Kevin Martin
In: Tyrus Thomas and Jerome James ($6.6 mill expiring contract)

Why Chicago Does It? Derrick Rose & Kevin Martin ('nuff said). Also, Salmons doesn't cut it at the 2 guard and he moves back to the 3.

Why Kings Do It?

Tyrus Thomas is still very young, athletic, defensive presence and obviously getting better on offense. It's a big for a small. Also, if anything, this trade increases the Kings financial FA ability because of the expiring contract.

Both are injured. Good for logistics. They can move now and by the time they are healed can start playing.
 
I think this is a fair deal but I wonder if we couldn't get a bit more for KMart. If I knew for sure the Maloofs would spend the money in the offseason to get a quality FA then I'd say yes.
 
Chicago has enough cap space to sign a max guy and I think its unlikely they jeopardize that. They probly have an outside shot at LeBron, and pretty decent shots at both Wade and Bosh.
 
I realize we are doing decent without K-mart but for salary dump and a guy that can't seem to reach his potential? I'd rather wait and see what Kevin and Tyreke do together before I go throwing him away. If we could get a star big man then I would think about it buy not for this.
 
Dang.. We used to get a LOT more Tyrus Thomas stuff.. I had thought it ended until reading this..

Thomas is a bust.. He's not the droid you're are looking for.
 
If you are trading away Kevin you want to make sure you are getting a star in return and Tyrus Thomas is NOT a star.
 
Well there's always an element of the grass is greener when it comes to evaluating young players. From a talent standpoint, Thomas has as much potential as Martin, probably more when you factor in what position he plays and his impact on defense. But Martin has certainly proven a lot more in the NBA at this point.

There's also a position problem relating to Jason Thompson. You'd ideally want to put Thomas in your starting lineup. You could try to play him at SF but that pushes Omri and Greene on the depth chart and both have been big contributors so far. Or you could try to move Thompson to C, but we've seen how successful that idea has been (not very). So your only real option without playing people out of position is to bring Thomas or Thompson off the bench as your 6th man. That works up to a point, but you'd hope if you're trading Martin that you're getting a starter in return and you'd want to give Thomas every opportunity to prove he belongs there. It's a nice idea, I like Thomas a lot and I don't think he's been given much opportunity to show what he can do in Chicago, but I'm not sure he fits comfortably with our current roster. Maybe there's enough minutes to make it work, I don't know. He would seem like the ideal front court compliment to Hawes at least theoretically.

That and I think Chicago wants Wade too, so they might want to wait till the offseason before filling that SG spot.
 
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Thomas was playing very well before his injury - many, including myself, thought he turned the corner. This guy is one of the more athletic players in the leauge, no matter what position. He just had to work on his game a bit more than he thought. I agree about being able to get more for KMart, but keep in mind this is essentially a buyer's market. Even after the superstars there is still a fair share of players to go around. We might have to curb our expectations, or wait a year or two for this.
 
No more ideas on how to get defensive power forwards. That would mean Jason Thompson would have to change what hes doing. I want Thompson to grow and flourish which is exactly what hes doing currently. We need a defensive CENTER!
 
I realize we are doing decent without K-mart but for salary dump and a guy that can't seem to reach his potential? I'd rather wait and see what Kevin and Tyreke do together before I go throwing him away. If we could get a star big man then I would think about it buy not for this.


Totally agree.
There should be no rush to trade anyone at this point.
 
Totally agree.
There should be no rush to trade anyone at this point.
I disagree!

I think its the right time to explore trade options for Nocioni. Martin will be back soon, followed by Garcia and what we need to keep giving playing time to Casspi and Donte and with Noc, Garcia AND Martin back, thats just not going to happen.
 
I disagree!

I think its the right time to explore trade options for Nocioni. Martin will be back soon, followed by Garcia and what we need to keep giving playing time to Casspi and Donte and with Noc, Garcia AND Martin back, thats just not going to happen.

Agreed, our wing glut is about to come into full effect as they start getting healthy.

This isn't a popular idea or something ANYONE wants to hear or think about but it's time.... I think we'll lose 2 wings eventually... it's just who goes and how. We have a lot of great wings, but we lack bigs..
 
Well there's always an element of the grass is greener when it comes to evaluating young players. From a talent standpoint, Thomas has as much potential as Martin, probably more when you factor in what position he plays and his impact on defense. But Martin has certainly proven a lot more in the NBA at this point.

There's also a position problem relating to Jason Thompson. You'd ideally want to put Thomas in your starting lineup. You could try to play him at SF but that pushes Omri and Greene on the depth chart and both have been big contributors so far. Or you could try to move Thompson to C, but we've seen how successful that idea has been (not very). So your only real option without playing people out of position is to bring Thomas or Thompson off the bench as your 6th man. That works up to a point, but you'd hope if you're trading Martin that you're getting a starter in return and you'd want to give Thomas every opportunity to prove he belongs there. It's a nice idea, I like Thomas a lot and I don't think he's been given much opportunity to show what he can do in Chicago, but I'm not sure he fits comfortably with our current roster. Maybe there's enough minutes to make it work, I don't know. He would seem like the ideal front court compliment to Hawes at least theoretically.

That and I think Chicago wants Wade too, so they might want to wait till the offseason before filling that SG spot.

I guarantee you that every GM in the league would take Martin over Thomas. So far, Thomas is a bust. He averaged 10 points a game last year and I believe 6 boards. This is his fourth year. Thompson is way ahead of Thomas just starting his second year. I almost gagged when I read, Thomas has as much potential as Martin. Thats all Thomas has. Right along with Gerold Green. Martin is reaching his potential, while Thomas is still thinking about his.

Not to mention that the mere mention of the name Jerome James gives me acid reflux. We would be giving away Martin for nothing more than cap space. Unless you want to sign Thomas to a long term contract.
 
Agreed, our wing glut is about to come into full effect as they start getting healthy.

This isn't a popular idea or something ANYONE wants to hear or think about but it's time.... I think we'll lose 2 wings eventually... it's just who goes and how. We have a lot of great wings, but we lack bigs..

Yeah it is scary.

Martin
Garcia
Noc
Casspi
Greene
Udoka (1st to go)

We all would like Noc to go before the others. May be some good news in that Greene can be servicable as a spot PF.

Martin
Garcia
Casspi
Greene

Then you got 3 pg's with 2 getting spot sg min for now.

need to be traded or released

Noc
KT
Beno/Sergio
Udoka (released when at full strength)

I am afraid we lose 1 of Casspi or Greene and keep Noc
 
I guarantee you that every GM in the league would take Martin over Thomas. So far, Thomas is a bust. He averaged 10 points a game last year and I believe 6 boards. This is his fourth year. Thompson is way ahead of Thomas just starting his second year. I almost gagged when I read, Thomas has as much potential as Martin. Thats all Thomas has. Right along with Gerold Green. Martin is reaching his potential, while Thomas is still thinking about his.

Not to mention that the mere mention of the name Jerome James gives me acid reflux. We would be giving away Martin for nothing more than cap space. Unless you want to sign Thomas to a long term contract.

Well let me see if I can make you gag some more :D

I look at Thomas' NBA.com profile and I see career highs of 27points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 4steals, 8blocks. That's a guy who can do it all. Now consistency has been a problem for him, actually it's been the problem, but I remain skeptical of how Chicago is using him. Firstly they traded up to get him and then (demonstrating the unhealthy extant John Paxson is obsessed with interior defense to the exclusion of all else) signed Ben Wallace to a huge contract effectively ensuring Thomas was never going to get playing time. When Thomas did get to play he was always a factor on defense. He was less of a factor on offense, but he wasn't as ineffective as you might think. He gets all of his points as the fifth option in the offense and, as I'll demonstrate below, he's been as effective with his scoring as Jason Thompson.

I don't like to base everything on stats, but I have two basic tools I always go to when I'm evaluating other team's players. First I go to the game log to get an idea of how they peformed over a period of time. What I see in Thomas' game log is that he's had more 20 and 10 or 15 and 10 games than I would have expected. For a guy who hasn't been given a lot of time as a starter before last year, he looks very close to becoming a reliable double-double threat. I also see that he's a good free throw shooter which helps to improve his scoring numbers. I see a long stretch when he was made a starter last year of fairly consistent blocks, rebounds, and point totals. He's much more likely to get 2 or more blocks per game than 0 or 1 with starters minutes.

The other tool I have is my impression in games I've seen him play. Over the past 3 years I've seen Thomas probably only 6 or 7 times but he's always been the most active player on the court, and he's always been a better shooter than I expected. He's not just a guy that looks good in dunk contests like Gerald Green, the reason Tyrus Thomas is an exciting player is because he's always shown that he can use his athleticism to impact the game with his shotblocking and rebounding.

Since you brought up Jason Thompson, let's compare Tyrus Thomas' season last year to Jason Thompson's:

Thompson 28.1min, 11.1pts, 7.4rebs, 1.1asts, 0.6stls, 0.7blks, .497fg%
Thomas 27.5min, 10.8pts, 6.4rebs, 1.0asts, 1.2stls, 1.9blks, .451fg%

and now the per36min stats (from basketball-reference.com)

Thompson 14.2pts, 9.5rebs, 1.5asts, 0.7stls, 0.9blks
Thomas 14.2pts, 8.4rebs, 1.3asts, 1.5 stls, 2.5blks

I'm not trying to say Thomas is better than Thompson, but those block and steal numbers jump out at you don't they? Wouldn't you like it if Jason Thompson could add 1 or 2 steals and 2 or 3 blocks per game to go with his scoring and rebounding? I already went into why I'd hesitate to bring in Thomas now because we do have Thompson and Thomas might not be a good compliment. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Thomas. And not entirely because of potential. The production is already there. And since Thomas was drafted as a freshman and Thompson as a senior, he's also younger than Thompson (by less than a month).

When I say Thomas has as much potential as Martin, I'm factoring in where they play and what they do. There aren't a lot of players in the NBA that can do what Thomas does. His ability to gather athletic defensive stats is in a class with Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith and few others. Martin is never going to be as effective on defense as Thomas is right now. Similarly Thomas is never going to average 30 points per game or even close to it. But, looking at his game log last year, getting to 20 per game with a bigger role is not out of the question.

And of course the big issue -- A lot of the reason people are calling for trading Kevin Martin right now is that this team hasn't had a lot of trouble scoring points with Martin out of the lineup. He's shown the last two years that he excels as a scorer, but doesn't contribute in a lot of other areas. So even if Martin and Reke play well together, is it not valid to question whether a defensive expert would benefit this team more than another scorer? People get caught up sometimes in who's a "star" or an "all-star" or even (lately) a "PG". I'm going to agree with Evans on this one. We're talking about basketball players -- all that matters is what they contribute when they're in the game. Right now looking at overall production, I think Tyrus Thomas could be just as valuable, maybe even more valuable, to a basketball team than Kevin Martin. And I don't mean that as a knock on Kevin Martin. What I mean is that Tyrus Thomas is a lot better than you think he is. And, for the bazillionth time, (say it with me kids) defense matters.
 
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Well let me see if I can make you gag some more :D

I look at Thomas' NBA.com profile and I see career highs of 27points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 4steals, 8blocks. That's a guy who can do it all. Now consistency has been a problem for him, actually it's been the problem, but I remain skeptical of how Chicago is using him. Firstly they traded up to get him and then (demonstrating the unhealthy extant John Paxson is obsessed with interior defense to the exclusion of all else) signed Ben Wallace to a huge contract effectively ensuring Thomas was never going to get playing time. When Thomas did get to play he was always a factor on defense. He was less of a factor on offense, but he wasn't as ineffective as you might think. He gets all of his points as the fifth option in the offense and, as I'll demonstrate below, he's been as effective with his scoring as Jason Thompson.

I don't like to base everything on stats, but I have two basic tools I always go to when I'm evaluating other team's players. First I go to the game log to get an idea of how they peformed over a period of time. What I see in Thomas' game log is that he's had more 20 and 10 or 15 and 10 games than I would have expected. For a guy who hasn't been given a lot of time as a starter before last year, he looks very close to becoming a reliable double-double threat. I also see that he's a good free throw shooter which helps to improve his scoring numbers. I see a long stretch when he was made a starter last year of fairly consistent blocks, rebounds, and point totals. He's much more likely to get 2 or more blocks per game than 0 or 1 with starters minutes.

The other tool I have is my impression in games I've seen him play. Over the past 3 years I've seen Thomas probably only 6 or 7 times but he's always been the most active player on the court, and he's always been a better shooter than I expected. He's not just a guy that looks good in dunk contests like Gerald Green, the reason Tyrus Thomas is an exciting player is because he's always shown that he can use his athleticism to impact the game with his shotblocking and rebounding.

Since you brought up Jason Thompson, let's compare Tyrus Thomas' season last year to Jason Thompson's:

Thompson 28.1min, 11.1pts, 7.4rebs, 1.1asts, 0.6stls, 0.7blks, .497fg%
Thomas 27.5min, 10.8pts, 6.4rebs, 1.0asts, 1.2stls, 1.9blks, .451fg%

and now the per36min stats (from basketball-reference.com)

Thompson 14.2pts, 9.5rebs, 1.5asts, 0.7stls, 0.9blks
Thomas 14.2pts, 8.4rebs, 1.3asts, 1.5 stls, 2.5blks

I'm not trying to say Thomas is better than Thompson, but those block and steal numbers jump out at you don't they? Wouldn't you like it if Jason Thompson could add 1 or 2 steals and 2 or 3 blocks per game to go with his scoring and rebounding? I already went into why I'd hesitate to bring in Thomas now because we do have Thompson and Thomas might not be a good compliment. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Thomas. And not entirely because of potential. The production is already there. And since Thomas was drafted as a freshman and Thompson as a senior, he's also younger than Thompson (by less than a month).

When I say Thomas has as much potential as Martin, I'm factoring in where they play and what they do. There aren't a lot of players in the NBA that can do what Thomas does. His ability to gather athletic defensive stats is in a class with Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith and few others. Martin is never going to be as effective on defense as Thomas is right now. Similarly Thomas is never going to average 30 points per game or even close to it. But, looking at his game log last year, getting to 20 per game with a bigger role is not out of the question.

And of course the big issue -- A lot of the reason people are calling for trading Kevin Martin right now is that this team hasn't had a lot of trouble scoring points with Martin out of the lineup. He's shown the last two years that he excels as a scorer, but doesn't contribute in a lot of other areas. So even if Martin and Reke play well together, is it not valid to question whether a defensive expert would benefit this team more than another scorer? People get caught up sometimes in who's a "star" or an "all-star" or even (lately) a "PG". I'm going to agree with Evans on this one. We're talking about basketball players -- all that matters is what they contribute when they're in the game. Right now looking at overall production, I think Tyrus Thomas could be just as valuable, maybe even more valuable, to a basketball team than Kevin Martin. And I don't mean that as a knock on Kevin Martin. What I mean is that Tyrus Thomas is a lot better than you think he is. And, for the bazillionth time, (say it with me kids) defense matters.

Nice analysis. I basically go by what I see on the court, and the last time I saw Tyrus, he made an impact on the defensive and offensive side of the ball. His presence was felt. Frankly, I've never seen Martin in one game make his impact felt on both the offensive and defensive side of the ball. Tyrus has also developed a nice outside shot, which makes him a nice complement to Tyreke so guys won't sag in the paint. When I think of Tyrus, Greene, and Tyreke - that could be a very nice defensive trio.
 
But if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Thomas. And not entirely because of potential. The production is already there. And since Thomas was drafted as a freshman and Thompson as a senior, he's also younger than Thompson (by less than a month).

After years of watching undersized "power" forwards on the Kngs get flattened by real power forwards, I am glad to finally have JT man that position. He may not be the strongest dude around but at least he looks down on most of the guys he guards.

Which brings me to Tyrus Thomas, he is what, 6'-8? 6'-8.5 at the most? And he is a meager 225 pounds. There are SFs who are bigger than him. To me Tyrus' problem is that he's too small for the 4 and not skilled enough for the 3. A classic tweener. A very talented and athletic tweener who can flourish in the right system but a tweener nonetheless. I have seen big strong baddies just back him down, back him down, turn around, and then shoot over him without much resistance.

Which is not to say I dont want Thomas, I do but not at the expense of Martin. And I certainly wouldn't choose Thomas over JT.

Btw, nice analysis, hrdboild.
 
After years of watching undersized "power" forwards on the Kngs get flattened by real power forwards, I am glad to finally have JT man that position. He may not be the strongest dude around but at least he looks down on most of the guys he guards.

Which brings me to Tyrus Thomas, he is what, 6'-8? 6'-8.5 at the most? And he is a meager 225 pounds. There are SFs who are bigger than him. To me Tyrus' problem is that he's too small for the 4 and not skilled enough for the 3. A classic tweener. A very talented and athletic tweener who can flourish in the right system but a tweener nonetheless. I have seen big strong baddies just back him down, back him down, turn around, and then shoot over him without much resistance.

Which is not to say I dont want Thomas, I do but not at the expense of Martin. And I certainly wouldn't choose Thomas over JT.

Btw, nice analysis, hrdboild.

I'm inclined to agree for exactly the reasons you listed. I rather enjoy having a PF on our team who looks down at a lot of other team's PFs as well. And I think Jason will continue to improve his interior defense as he gets stronger. Which is why bringing in Thomas is a problem for me as well. I almost think SF would be Thomas' best position since he's athletic enough to play the position and the skills he lacks (handle, long range shot) aren't absolute requirments. If he can hold his own defensively there (which he can) than you can find more skilled players to fit around him (again Hawes comes to mind). But then where do you play Omri and Greene? Who would have thought we would already be talking about an embarassment of riches at our forward positions? ;) It doesn't necessarily have to be an either/or with Jason Thompson, but it does make me less willing to pull the trigger on a Martin for Thomas trade.

But when it comes to the tweener label, there is a rather distinct difference I think between a power player who's undersized for that role (Corliss Williamson, Sheldon Williams, Kenny Thomas) and an athlete without a lot of perimeter skills who has to score their points close to the basket. I keep coming back to the Josh Smith comparison. Atlanta stubbornly refuses to play Smith at SF, and he's having a pretty good year right now. It's working for them because they're a fast break team and they have enough perimeter defenders to force turnovers and discourage the entry pass. Of course they also have 6-10'ish Al Horford starting at center, so it might be a problem for them in the playoffs. But anyway, I think Josh Smith is the prototype. That's what you hope to get out of Tyrus Thomas. He has a pretty reliable jump shot out to the the free throw line right now but he doesn't have the post moves that Smith has added to his game. And Thomas is already a much better free throw shooter than Smith. As nice as it is to have a size advantage at all your positions, it's also nice to have high energy guys who make game-changing plays on defense.
 
Well let me see if I can make you gag some more :D

I look at Thomas' NBA.com profile and I see career highs of 27points, 16 rebounds, 5 assists, 4steals, 8blocks. That's a guy who can do it all. Now consistency has been a problem for him, actually it's been the problem, but I remain skeptical of how Chicago is using him. Firstly they traded up to get him and then (demonstrating the unhealthy extant John Paxson is obsessed with interior defense to the exclusion of all else) signed Ben Wallace to a huge contract effectively ensuring Thomas was never going to get playing time. When Thomas did get to play he was always a factor on defense. He was less of a factor on offense, but he wasn't as ineffective as you might think. He gets all of his points as the fifth option in the offense and, as I'll demonstrate below, he's been as effective with his scoring as Jason Thompson.

I don't like to base everything on stats, but I have two basic tools I always go to when I'm evaluating other team's players. First I go to the game log to get an idea of how they peformed over a period of time. What I see in Thomas' game log is that he's had more 20 and 10 or 15 and 10 games than I would have expected. For a guy who hasn't been given a lot of time as a starter before last year, he looks very close to becoming a reliable double-double threat. I also see that he's a good free throw shooter which helps to improve his scoring numbers. I see a long stretch when he was made a starter last year of fairly consistent blocks, rebounds, and point totals. He's much more likely to get 2 or more blocks per game than 0 or 1 with starters minutes.

The other tool I have is my impression in games I've seen him play. Over the past 3 years I've seen Thomas probably only 6 or 7 times but he's always been the most active player on the court, and he's always been a better shooter than I expected. He's not just a guy that looks good in dunk contests like Gerald Green, the reason Tyrus Thomas is an exciting player is because he's always shown that he can use his athleticism to impact the game with his shotblocking and rebounding.

Since you brought up Jason Thompson, let's compare Tyrus Thomas' season last year to Jason Thompson's:

Thompson 28.1min, 11.1pts, 7.4rebs, 1.1asts, 0.6stls, 0.7blks, .497fg%
Thomas 27.5min, 10.8pts, 6.4rebs, 1.0asts, 1.2stls, 1.9blks, .451fg%

and now the per36min stats (from basketball-reference.com)

Thompson 14.2pts, 9.5rebs, 1.5asts, 0.7stls, 0.9blks
Thomas 14.2pts, 8.4rebs, 1.3asts, 1.5 stls, 2.5blks

I'm not trying to say Thomas is better than Thompson, but those block and steal numbers jump out at you don't they? Wouldn't you like it if Jason Thompson could add 1 or 2 steals and 2 or 3 blocks per game to go with his scoring and rebounding? I already went into why I'd hesitate to bring in Thomas now because we do have Thompson and Thomas might not be a good compliment. But if I had to choose between the two, I'd go with Thomas. And not entirely because of potential. The production is already there. And since Thomas was drafted as a freshman and Thompson as a senior, he's also younger than Thompson (by less than a month).

When I say Thomas has as much potential as Martin, I'm factoring in where they play and what they do. There aren't a lot of players in the NBA that can do what Thomas does. His ability to gather athletic defensive stats is in a class with Gerald Wallace, Josh Smith and few others. Martin is never going to be as effective on defense as Thomas is right now. Similarly Thomas is never going to average 30 points per game or even close to it. But, looking at his game log last year, getting to 20 per game with a bigger role is not out of the question.

And of course the big issue -- A lot of the reason people are calling for trading Kevin Martin right now is that this team hasn't had a lot of trouble scoring points with Martin out of the lineup. He's shown the last two years that he excels as a scorer, but doesn't contribute in a lot of other areas. So even if Martin and Reke play well together, is it not valid to question whether a defensive expert would benefit this team more than another scorer? People get caught up sometimes in who's a "star" or an "all-star" or even (lately) a "PG". I'm going to agree with Evans on this one. We're talking about basketball players -- all that matters is what they contribute when they're in the game. Right now looking at overall production, I think Tyrus Thomas could be just as valuable, maybe even more valuable, to a basketball team than Kevin Martin. And I don't mean that as a knock on Kevin Martin. What I mean is that Tyrus Thomas is a lot better than you think he is. And, for the bazillionth time, (say it with me kids) defense matters.

It didn't make me gag, and it was a nice analysis. My problem with Thomas, and I've watched him play quite a bit since thats about all I do in the winter is watch endless basketball, is his consistancy or lack there of. I would liken him to Ike Diogu, except not that bad. He'll have a great game and follow it with a couple of so so games followed by a bad game followed by a great game. I'm aware that sometimes players just need a change of scenery. Its certainly helped Sergio. So I'm not oppossed to trading for him, I just don't want to give up the bank to get him.

Remember that when you compare Thomas stats from last year, your comparing his third year stats against Thompson's first year stats. Go back and compare Thomas first year stats against Thompsons first year stats and he doesn't compare as well.
 
It didn't make me gag, and it was a nice analysis. My problem with Thomas, and I've watched him play quite a bit since thats about all I do in the winter is watch endless basketball, is his consistancy or lack there of. I would liken him to Ike Diogu, except not that bad. He'll have a great game and follow it with a couple of so so games followed by a bad game followed by a great game. I'm aware that sometimes players just need a change of scenery. Its certainly helped Sergio. So I'm not oppossed to trading for him, I just don't want to give up the bank to get him.

Remember that when you compare Thomas stats from last year, your comparing his third year stats against Thompson's first year stats. Go back and compare Thomas first year stats against Thompsons first year stats and he doesn't compare as well.

Point taken. I made that comparison because they're the same age and last year was Thomas' first as a regular starter. But you're certainly right that potential becomes less and less of a selling point the deeper a player gets into their NBA career. And it can't be a coincidence that I'm a huge Ike Diogu fan as well. :) I see flashes of brilliance and I think that if they can do it every other week or so, why can't they do it every other game? But basketball IQ is maybe the toughest thing to evaluate and I admit I haven't seen either of them regularly enough to have a strong feeling about it.

And then as the wins start to pile up and the good team chemistry becomes more and more obvious game to game, I can't help but feel like trading Kevin Martin would not be giving up a piece of our current core team. It's too early to say that, I know, but this new winning attitude has come without him on the court. Maybe when Martin comes back and starts to get in on the fun I'll be less willing to indulge these trade fantasies. Right now having him on the sidelines throughout this renaissance of good basketball is like having two dollars in the hand and two in the bush. You start to look around and make these "what if" scenarios.
 
Point taken. I made that comparison because they're the same age and last year was Thomas' first as a regular starter. But you're certainly right that potential becomes less and less of a selling point the deeper a player gets into their NBA career. And it can't be a coincidence that I'm a huge Ike Diogu fan as well. :) I see flashes of brilliance and I think that if they can do it every other week or so, why can't they do it every other game? But basketball IQ is maybe the toughest thing to evaluate and I admit I haven't seen either of them regularly enough to have a strong feeling about it.

And then as the wins start to pile up and the good team chemistry becomes more and more obvious game to game, I can't help but feel like trading Kevin Martin would not be giving up a piece of our current core team. It's too early to say that, I know, but this new winning attitude has come without him on the court. Maybe when Martin comes back and starts to get in on the fun I'll be less willing to indulge these trade fantasies. Right now having him on the sidelines throughout this renaissance of good basketball is like having two dollars in the hand and two in the bush. You start to look around and make these "what if" scenarios.

I think all of us remember the year Webb came back and we had the best record in the NBA at the time. Its hard not to think of that when looking at this current team and the Martin situation. Of course its an entirely different situation with entirely different ego's involved. But the memory is still there, and as a result, the caution sign goes up.

When Martin comes back, we'll have about a month before the trading deadline to make a decision. Should be plenty of time. Martin is an interesting player. Yes, he has flaws in his game, but there are other players out there with larger flaws that are more popular than him. And thats his biggest flaw. He will never be a superstar because superstars are made by the fans. Martin lacks chrisima. Its not his fault of course. He is who he is. But to be a real star in the NBA, aside from being very talented, you have to have flair. You have to light up the arena with your smile like Webber used to do. Thats just not part of Martins make up. Martin is not a player that will put people in the seats.

Having said that, he may well be a great second banana. He may be one of those players that thrives better on the edge of the spotlight. I guess were going to find out. He also could be a late bloomer..:)
 
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