Let's discuss new guys (from June 2016)

The Kings have a long history of going after crummy high draft picks.
By going this route, they have more players to chose from. If two of them work out, it will be a successful draft.
In a sense the pressure is off to produce a quality player from one high draft choice.
The European players are hard to read. I like the mental toughness of the guys from eastern Europe. Most of them can shoot. Time will tell if they can learn to play NBA quality defense.
It is too bad that the Kings barely missed a chance at a couple of quality guards.
The team is definitely big heavy at this point.
The 2 guard spot continues to be a glaring weakness. Maybe Richardson can help, maybe not.
Rondo could be gone.
Trading bigs for smalls seems likely sometime soon.
 
Did the Kings pass on someone fantastic to get Papa? No.

THIS! It's not like we decided to get Papa Johns instead of Kris Dunn, and the draft wasn't that strong in the first place.

In hindsight we will most perhaps be able to look at #13 and say we could have spent it better... but we must not have wanted Baldwin after working him out.

People are acting like skipping Baldwin at #13 makes Vlade stupid. But he was not going to step in and play PG in front of Rondo/Collison/Seth anyway.

And we do not know where Papa John was gonna go. Very likely before our next turn.

I'm on board with Papa John!!!!!!
 
We got a C, a PF, two SGs, and a PG. Not bad for starting the day with 2 picks.

This is the point a lot of us are missing when we're saying we didn't draft for need or that we drafted too many big men. Acy and Moreland are gone. They've been replaced with first round talent with tremendous upside. We replaced Marco with Richardson who should have more all around game and Can't play worse than Marco did even if he tried.

Many of us thought DC should or could be the starter on this team. If that's the case, we just need a backup PG and we drafted a decent one by all accounts. If Vlade didn't think any of the PGs after Dunn could beat out DC, then it didn't make sense to draft them at this time. Same goes if we're looking to bring back Rondo or go after Conley.
 
my issue is not that we picked up a bunch of prospects, but with the way the roster is currently constructed, how are these guys all going to get minutes? How are we going to develop and groom this young talent? This seems like it would have been a great draft for a rebuilding team, but not so much for a squad that's trying to win right now. I sincerely hope these guys all pan out, but it feels like it's going to be a challenge to develop everyone. Seems like we're already planning for the eventual departure of Demarcus
 
If you go by eye test and not advanced analytics... the film on Papa John and Malachi is great. I love the way Malachi looks on film... maybe he's really good??

I have a feeling that Vlade isn't a stats nerd... but more of a gut feel guy.
I feel as if Vlade and Malone would have hit it off...remember at the end when Malone was trashing analytics in favor of defense. Vlade is old school. Joerger loves defense too but willing to increase pace but not to the Karl/DAntoni level.
 
This is the point a lot of us are missing when we're saying we didn't draft for need or that we drafted too many big men. Acy and Moreland are gone. They've been replaced with first round talent with tremendous upside. We replaced Marco with Richardson who should have more all around game and Can't play worse than Marco did even if he tried.

Many of us thought DC should or could be the starter on this team. If that's the case, we just need a backup PG and we drafted a decent one by all accounts. If Vlade didn't think any of the PGs after Dunn could beat out DC, then it didn't make sense to draft them at this time. Same goes if we're looking to bring back Rondo or go after Conley.

So we shouldn't draft a PG because he won't beat DC and so we drafted a center? because our current center is obviously chopped liver.

I like the Marco trade and Richardson is atleast in a position we have some need at (I think he is a bad prospect with an extremely low floor and would much rather have Luwawu/Murray but I can be wrong on that), but what is the point in drafting 2 young big men in the positions of your supposed franchise cornerstones (DMC & WCS)?

When the 76ers drafted a ton of center prospects we all laughed because it made no sense- we did the exact same thing, now atleast for the 76ers it made some sense because they didn't care about winning but we just drafted 2 big-men prospects in the position we are maybe best in the league at while claiming we are in win-now mode- how is that good?
 
So we shouldn't draft a PG because he won't beat DC and so we drafted a center? because our current center is obviously chopped liver.

I like the Marco trade and Richardson is atleast in a position we have some need at (I think he is a bad prospect with an extremely low floor and would much rather have Luwawu/Murray but I can be wrong on that), but what is the point in drafting 2 young big men in the positions of your supposed franchise cornerstones (DMC & WCS)?

When the 76ers drafted a ton of center prospects we all laughed because it made no sense- we did the exact same thing, now atleast for the 76ers it made some sense because they didn't care about winning but we just drafted 2 big-men prospects in the position we are maybe best in the league at while claiming we are in win-now mode- how is that good?

No, it's not that you shouldn't draft a PG. We actually did. It's that if we think we have a starting PG and we feel more strongly about a C than we do about the PGs available at that draft spot, then you go with the player you feel better about. Either one is going to be a backup.

Is Seth coming back? Didn't we want him to get minutes? Doesn't he score with the best of them and get after it on D? Is he as good as the PGs available when we drafted? I don't know, but that's a question Vlade was asking himself I'm sure.

I'm not saying I'm enamored with this draft, but I don't think it as crazy as some are making it out to be.
 
My first draft reaction: Shock.
Second: Confusion.
Now: I feel better and Vlade sounded tired but I liked his confidence and I decided to think positively. Well, I do not have a choice at this point but I would rather have positive emotions. Hopefully it is not a total self bliss :) ...

European guys are very difficult to analyze. You cannot rely on stats. You need to see them play and not just one game or youtube videos. Papa's numbers are not impressive BUT the fact that he played for Panathinaikos at that age is a big deal. Big European clubs always favor veterans and allow only truly talented young guys to play at least 5-10 minutes. He could have probably dominated and put crazy numbers somewhere in Ukraine playing against 6'6" 195 lb centers but I would rather see him just play some minutes for clubs like Panathinaikos or CSKA or Maccabi. Summer League will be a great indicator for him.

Also, a big factor I mentioned above, Vlade was one of those European all star players himself, if anyone has a good keen eyes on analyzing European talents, he would be the one.
 
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No, it's not that you shouldn't draft a PG. We actually did. It's that if we think we have a starting PG and we feel more strongly about a C than we do about the PGs available at that draft spot, then you go with the player you feel better about. Either one is going to be a backup.

Is Seth coming back? Didn't we want him to get minutes? Doesn't he score with the best of them and get after it on D? Is he as good as the PGs available when we drafted? I don't know, but that's a question Vlade was asking himself I'm sure.

I'm not saying I'm enamored with this draft, but I don't think it as crazy as some are making it out to be.

Also listening to Vlade's post-draft comments, it's pretty clear that he wanted one of Kris Dunn/Jamal Murray had they stayed past number 7. He said that we had to give up too much to move up to draft them (I think that's what I heard?) so we went the other direction, which is what we got now, multiple draft picks with other talents they've also scouted extensively, but oversea.
 
Also listening to Vlade's post-draft comments, it's pretty clear that he wanted one of Kris Dunn/Jamal Murray had they stayed past number 7. He said that we had to give up too much to move up to draft them (I think that's what I heard?) so we went the other direction, which is what we got now, multiple draft picks with other talents they've also scouted extensively, but oversea.
I'm sure it was teams asking for the 8th and WCS which he turned down.
 
I like what Vlade did turning the #8 pick and a negative asset IMO into center prospect, stretch four prospect, SG prospect and a Euro prospect. The imbalance to the roster now is pretty striking especially if we go out and lock down Ryan Anderson with help of our extra cap space created from the Marco trade.

Potential Bigs:

- Boogie
- Willie
- Papa
- Skal
- Koufos
- Ryan Anderson

That's six guys relegated to the 4 and 5 position! The reason Anderson would be a logical addition is because he would stretch the floor whereas except for Boogie, none of our current bigs stretch the floor, despite Papa saying yesterday he can shoot the 3. That's just an 18 year old kid feeling his oats on draft day ;).

Ryan Anderson is NOT a 3, by the way, so if we are making him our top FA target, that will only add to the logjam.

I recall watching about 60 second clip of Papa and thought good size and coordination but dismissed researching his game further when I saw he was putting up 5 PPG and 3 RBG or thereabouts, not realizing he was logging only 10 minutes a game. Doing a more in-depth dive, the guy has great hands, and runs the floor well. It looks like over the last 2-3 years he has shed baby fat and on draft day on the stage he looked fit for a guy upwards of 7'2" and 260 pounds.

He gets off his feet well for a guy so big, and a couple of clips saw him sprinting the floor faster than I have ever seen Boogie run, unless he was charging at his coach in the locker room during half-time implosion. :p

I think Vlade just drafted the guy who he sees in himself....perhaps and taller and more athletic version? He's making a big bet here, in a draft in which there was a Top 8 Tier (or two tiers of two players, then 6 players), Vlade is betting he found a better player outside of this consensus tier.

He's seeing a guy at his age who maybe can do some things he wished he could do, or a lot of similarities in Papa and a young Vlade. I trust this pick b/c I trust Vlade's assessment more or less AND when you watch these bigs the thing you have to look for is agility and coordination. Papa has that. He's not a lumbering oaf. He has the size of someone like an Omar Asik, but has more fluidity to his game.

I don't see much of a touch on his hook yet but he is such a baby. He is going to be a completely different player in 2-3 years....since the most dramatic growth for a player occurs from 19-22 years of age and the first 2-3 years in the league. The fact that he has played pro ball since age 14 is incredible!!! And this I think will allow him to contribute sooner and faster.

But let's be real:

How much immediate contribution next year are we getting from three kids 18 and 19 year old playing against guys 5-10 years older? History is reliable guide and precedence they will not set the league on fire. We would be lucky if 1-2 of these guys become solid rotational player by middle of the season, even then you would wonder how efficient they would be.

Plan A and Plan B did not come to fruition and now we are in this boat:

Plan A was moving up to get Dunn. Plan B was hoping or moving up to get Hield. Plan A and B were plans to land 22 year old players who could more likely come in and play 20-25 MPG right away. Unfortunately the teams ahead of us had the same plan. The Kings draft room had to have this scenario mapped however, knowing of the Top 8 guys, someone like Chriss or Bender could have slid, left them in a predicament, with a player they did not want, opting instead to move out of the 8th spot for a player Vlade really wanted AND picking up another asset (or two, in this case two SG prospects).

Well done, Vlade!

A couple of final musings while I am still trying to digest the events of yesterday and where we go from here:

  • Koufos is gone....70% to 90% chance
  • Joerger may see Papa as a potential Marc Gasol, a bruising and skilled big with passing skill out of the post
  • Rondo coming back just went up by 50-60%, with Rose going to Knicks, and us passing on Wade Baldwin
  • The Kings just gave themselves and escape hatch to trade Boogie
Regarding the last bullet, the best way to balance the roster is to trade Boogie. Not saying it would be the best move, depending on the market, but the best way to create balance. I have said if a trade goes down Vlade needs to get teams to bid against one another over the course of the summer like the late Flip Sanders did before trading Love. My guess is offers have been made, and Vlade wants more or a lot more before pulling the trigger. Chicago with Jimmy Butler and Orlando with Gordon and Mario are logical partners.
 
Vlade made 2 trades this draft and won hands down on both.

I think people wouldn't complain as much if we got Chriss at 8 who is a gamble and a project . In return we got 2 big men who need development with the same upside. Better odds. With that same trade we got a 1st round quality SG waiting in Europe. Regardless of the order we picked the players, we ended up in a better position than if we just held onto the #8 and #59.

Btw, draft express had Big George ranked ahead of Baldwin in their mock draft. Which is to say, if George was a reach at 13, then it could be argued that Baldwin would have been too. So we reach for George and got Skal and Richardson fell to us later on. We're in a better position today. Not sure how we didn't address our needs when we acquired 2 SGs and a drafted a combo PG/SG in ICuz.
 
I like what Vlade did turning the #8 pick and a negative asset IMO into center prospect, stretch four prospect, SG prospect and a Euro prospect. The imbalance to the roster now is pretty striking especially if we go out and lock down Ryan Anderson with help of our extra cap space created from the Marco trade.

Potential Bigs:

- Boogie
- Willie
- Papa
- Skal
- Koufos
- Ryan Anderson

That's six guys relegated to the 4 and 5 position! The reason Anderson would be a logical addition is because he would stretch the floor whereas except for Boogie, none of our current bigs stretch the floor, despite Papa saying yesterday he can shoot the 3. That's just an 18 year old kid feeling his oats on draft day ;).

Ryan Anderson is NOT a 3, by the way, so if we are making him our top FA target, that will only add to the logjam.

I recall watching about 60 second clip of Papa and thought good size and coordination but dismissed researching his game further when I saw he was putting up 5 PPG and 3 RBG or thereabouts, not realizing he was logging only 10 minutes a game. Doing a more in-depth dive, the guy has great hands, and runs the floor well. It looks like over the last 2-3 years he has shed baby fat and on draft day on the stage he looked fit for a guy upwards of 7'2" and 260 pounds.

He gets off his feet well for a guy so big, and a couple of clips saw him sprinting the floor faster than I have ever seen Boogie run, unless he was charging at his coach in the locker room during half-time implosion. :p

I think Vlade just drafted the guy who he sees in himself....perhaps and taller and more athletic version? He's making a big bet here, in a draft in which there was a Top 8 Tier (or two tiers of two players, then 6 players), Vlade is betting he found a better player outside of this consensus tier.

He's seeing a guy at his age who maybe can do some things he wished he could do, or a lot of similarities in Papa and a young Vlade. I trust this pick b/c I trust Vlade's assessment more or less AND when you watch these bigs the thing you have to look for is agility and coordination. Papa has that. He's not a lumbering oaf. He has the size of someone like an Omar Asik, but has more fluidity to his game.

I don't see much of a touch on his hook yet but he is such a baby. He is going to be a completely different player in 2-3 years....since the most dramatic growth for a player occurs from 19-22 years of age and the first 2-3 years in the league. The fact that he has played pro ball since age 14 is incredible!!! And this I think will allow him to contribute sooner and faster.

But let's be real:

How much immediate contribution next year are we getting from three kids 18 and 19 year old playing against guys 5-10 years older? History is reliable guide and precedence they will not set the league on fire. We would be lucky if 1-2 of these guys become solid rotational player by middle of the season, even then you would wonder how efficient they would be.

Plan A and Plan B did not come to fruition and now we are in this boat:

Plan A was moving up to get Dunn. Plan B was hoping or moving up to get Hield. Plan A and B were plans to land 22 year old players who could more likely come in and play 20-25 MPG right away. Unfortunately the teams ahead of us had the same plan. The Kings draft room had to have this scenario mapped however, knowing of the Top 8 guys, someone like Chriss or Bender could have slid, left them in a predicament, with a player they did not want, opting instead to move out of the 8th spot for a player Vlade really wanted AND picking up another asset (or two, in this case two SG prospects).

Well done, Vlade!

A couple of final musings while I am still trying to digest the events of yesterday and where we go from here:

  • Koufos is gone....70% to 90% chance
  • Joerger may see Papa as a potential Marc Gasol, a bruising and skilled big with passing skill out of the post
  • Rondo coming back just went up by 50-60%, with Rose going to Knicks, and us passing on Wade Baldwin
  • The Kings just gave themselves and escape hatch to trade Boogie
Regarding the last bullet, the best way to balance the roster is to trade Boogie. Not saying it would be the best move, depending on the market, but the best way to create balance. I have said if a trade goes down Vlade needs to get teams to bid against one another over the course of the summer like the late Flip Sanders did before trading Love. My guess is offers have been made, and Vlade wants more or a lot more before pulling the trigger. Chicago with Jimmy Butler and Orlando with Gordon and Mario are logical partners.

Sorry I can't say I agree with you. Any center who is 7'2" with any potential/talent would go in the top ten due to size. He is a major major major project with odds not in our favor. I think it is a terrible pick as he will probably not contribute at all next year. I love the trade but if the plan was to do the trade then draft him then I don't like it. If we had taken Baldwin this draft would have been a huge success but as always we managed to screw it up
 
When the 76ers drafted a ton of center prospects we all laughed because it made no sense- we did the exact same thing, now atleast for the 76ers it made some sense because they didn't care about winning but we just drafted 2 big-men prospects in the position we are maybe best in the league at while claiming we are in win-now mode- how is that good?

Big difference, the 76ers were picking top 1 to 5 every year and kept picking the same position, while other viable and equally talented players were available to them at their pick.

The Kings, were picking at 8, when the draft was essentially 3 or 4 deep of impact players this year.

Then, at #13, you look for BPA.

Obviously, Vlade and crew had a Big Board and ranked the players in order of who they liked the most.

For example, if they had Papa at say #7 on their board and Baldwin at #14, they chose the player they had ranked highest at #13.

Had Baldwin been the highest ranked player left on their draft board when they picked at #13, believe me, Vlade would have picked him.
 
On a side note, is there a chance the Skal can develop into a Small Forward-Power Forward Combo Forward?

He has some range on his shot and he is built a lot like Kevin Durant and Brandon Ingram, except 2 inches taller.

If Skal could develop into a Small Forward, we would have the longest team in the NBA with 3
7 footers on the front line:

PF WCS
SF Skal
C DMC
 
Nik wasn't a draft for need when you just drafted the same player the year before. Nik was a redundant pick, like these picks. TRob wasn't a draft for need either. He, like Jimmer, was a draft for name/highlights to sell tickets quickly for a broke-ass Maloof organization.

Hell, the TRobb draft was a draft where you needed a SF, a shotblocker or a stretch 4, which he was not. Barnes came after, and, of course, Lilliard. Team sort of needed a PG, too, but everyone was still trying to pull the Tyreke PG experiment BS.
 
Not that this means much, but the 8, Marco and 59 netted us;

1st round pick and top Euro guard prospect
DX #15 ranked (skal)
DX#17 ranked (Richardson)
DX #22 ranked (big poppa)
DX #55 ranked (cousins)
Future 2nd round pick

I think everyone is totally undervaluing getting bogdan. I think we probably my could have had one of their existing guards instead and we pressed for bogdan.
 
Also, a big factor I mentioned above, Vlade was one of those European all star players himself, if anyone has a good keen eyes on analyzing European talents, he would be the one.

Also, having Vlade as a GM increases our chances to attract European players playing both in NBA and Europe, especially Balkan and Russian ones. Bogdan Bogdanovich is definitely coming to NBA and the Kings next year. If there is a basketball version of Artemi Panarin next year or in the future (hockey fans know what I am talking about), there is a good chance we are getting this guy.
 
In case someone (like me) missed these...

Georgio Papagiannis Highlight:

Skal Labissiere Highlight:

Isaiah Cousins Highlight:
I already see something Papa has to work on after watching that highlight video. He seems to love doing chin ups after a dunk. That's going to be a big nono in the NBA. Other than that, looks good.
 
Stauskas was a draft for need......turned out horribly. Jimmer was an undersized, non dribbling, ticket seller. How did that work out? TRob was drafted for need.

According to Vlade, he drafted WCS as BPA...an athletic freak.
Vlade taking 4 players with some really good length and athleticism. Good upside. Doesn't even take into consideration Bog who will come fairly NBA ready in a year.

Vlade's on the right track. I hope Vlade and company can add a backcourt piece in trade or FA. This is a steady progression in turning this around.

stauskas was vivek's fetish project.
 
I already see something Papa has to work on after watching that highlight video. He seems to love doing chin ups after a dunk. That's going to be a big nono in the NBA. Other than that, looks good.

I am sure he needs to learn a lot more otherwise a guy of his size would have selected Top-3 guaranteed :) ... It takes time for big guys to figure out things. The only worrisome thing for me is that some experts questioned his motor. Hopefully it is not the case.
 
I am sure he needs to learn a lot more otherwise a guy of his size would have selected Top-3 guaranteed :) ... It takes time for big guys to figure out things. The only worrisome thing for me is that some experts questioned his motor. Hopefully it is not the case.

They question his motor, his toughness and his conditioning.
 
stauskas was vivek's fetish project.
You sure it wasn't because Stauskas was one of the only guys to beat Mullin in their ego-fluffing 3-pt shootouts?

I could picture Mullin being such an arrogant dude-bro that he bet Stauskas he couldn't beat him in a 3-pt contest and he lost so he had to pay up the wager of a first-round selection on Stauskas.

Vivek just followed his spiritual/karmic advisor Mullin's recommendation like a star-struck teenage groupie.
 
Not that this means much, but the 8, Marco and 59 netted us;

1st round pick and top Euro guard prospect
DX #15 ranked (skal)
DX#17 ranked (Richardson)
DX #22 ranked (big poppa)
DX #55 ranked (cousins)
Future 2nd round pick

I think everyone is totally undervaluing getting bogdan. I think we probably my could have had one of their existing guards instead and we pressed for bogdan.

I don't mind the sentiment, but that was their mock, not rankings (and Papagiannis was moved up to 22 last minute once the Kings traded for that pick from what I remember yesterday).

Their prospect ranks/big board were a little different:

DX #10 ranked (skal)
DX#35 ranked (Richardson)
DX #50 ranked (big poppa)
DX #65 ranked (cousins)
 
I feel loads better after sleeping on it. A ton of teams took random players in the middle of the draft and reached hard. We didn't really reach all that much and we did get a lot of talent. Now what we do with that talent I don't know, but we certainly have a lot of holes left to plug.
 
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