Kings with a couple nods for Underrated

Probably the surest bet to look like a genius in 9 months there is.
 
Besides the Kings, I consider the Suns the most underrated. They have a lot of talent and finally a good PG. However, Rubio must not miss too many games, which might be the problem considering his injury history.
 
rosa u podne said:
Besides the Kings, I consider the Suns the most underrated. They have a lot of talent and finally a good PG. However, Rubio must not miss too many games, which might be the problem considering his injury history.
Click to expand...

Strongly disagree. Everything ive seen projecting the suns i think are overestimating them. I expect them at the bottom of the league again unless Booker completely changes his mindset.
 
rosa u podne said:
Why do you think so? Besides, he is a much better fit for Suns with Booker than Booker with no PG last year.
Click to expand...
Well Rubio isn't a shooter or a scorer and yes he's better than their "PG" last year, but that's not a hard thing to achieve when you realize they didn't have one. The problem is Rubio is a passer and a decent, at best and on a good night, scorer. On offense, he needs the ball to be effective because he certainly isn't a spot up shooter.

The issue lies with his fit with Booker, whose best skill is 1 on 1 type of offense and creating relatively well for others (though he isn't the most willing passer). What do the Suns do? Give the ball to Rubio and relegate Booker to a spot up shooter/cutter? I wouldn't. But what do you then with Rubio? Zone him out of plays and relegate him to spot up shooter status? With his shooting percentages? The answer is **** no. They don't pair well with one another at all. Ideally, you would want a decent playmaking PG with a history of playing good defense while also being a good shooter to pair with Booker. Rubio.... isn't that. He will help on defense and moving the ball, but he's got the same issues as Rondo; he can't shoot (.322% from 3 for his career, even lower than that last year on nearly 4 attempts per game).
 
Sac.Kings said:
Well Rubio isn't a shooter or a scorer and yes he's better than their "PG" last year, but that's not a hard thing to achieve when you realize they didn't have one. The problem is Rubio is a passer and a decent, at best and on a good night, scorer. On offense, he needs the ball to be effective because he certainly isn't a spot up shooter.

The issue lies with his fit with Booker, whose best skill is 1 on 1 type of offense and creating relatively well for others (though he isn't the most willing passer). What do the Suns do? Give the ball to Rubio and relegate Booker to a spot up shooter/cutter? I wouldn't. But what do you then with Rubio? Zone him out of plays and relegate him to spot up shooter status? With his shooting percentages? The answer is **** no. They don't pair well with one another at all. Ideally, you would want a decent playmaking PG with a history of playing good defense while also being a good shooter to pair with Booker. Rubio.... isn't that. He will help on defense and moving the ball, but he's got the same issues as Rondo; he can't shoot (.322% from 3 for his career, even lower than that last year on nearly 4 attempts per game).
Click to expand...
Suns can have all the time Rubio or Booker on the floor. Alongside improved defense, that should help. When they both play, they can take turns.
 
rosa u podne said:
Suns can have all the time Rubio or Booker on the floor. Alongside improved defense, that should help. When they both play, they can take turns.
Click to expand...

What about Devin Booker suggests he’s going to be open to letting Rubio control the ball for possessions at a time?

Rubio is essentially a defense playing Spanish Rondo at this point in his career. He has all the tools to be a competent NBA player but for whatever reason goes through long stretches where it seems like he’s never played basketball before.
 
rosa u podne said:
Besides the Kings, I consider the Suns the most underrated. They have a lot of talent and finally a good PG. However, Rubio must not miss too many games, which might be the problem considering his injury history.
Click to expand...

What good is a good passing point guard when Devin Booker’s just going to hold the ball for 23 seconds?
 
rosa u podne said:
Suns can have all the time Rubio or Booker on the floor. Alongside improved defense, that should help. When they both play, they can take turns.
Click to expand...
I have concerns about their playing styles meshing together. We will find out soon enough if what you say is going to work. I don’t think it will be that easy of a solution since Booker doesn’t like to give the ball up much.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Well Rubio isn't a shooter or a scorer and yes he's better than their "PG" last year, but that's not a hard thing to achieve when you realize they didn't have one. The problem is Rubio is a passer and a decent, at best and on a good night, scorer. On offense, he needs the ball to be effective because he certainly isn't a spot up shooter.

The issue lies with his fit with Booker, whose best skill is 1 on 1 type of offense and creating relatively well for others (though he isn't the most willing passer). What do the Suns do? Give the ball to Rubio and relegate Booker to a spot up shooter/cutter? I wouldn't. But what do you then with Rubio? Zone him out of plays and relegate him to spot up shooter status? With his shooting percentages? The answer is **** no. They don't pair well with one another at all. Ideally, you would want a decent playmaking PG with a history of playing good defense while also being a good shooter to pair with Booker. Rubio.... isn't that. He will help on defense and moving the ball, but he's got the same issues as Rondo; he can't shoot (.322% from 3 for his career, even lower than that last year on nearly 4 attempts per game).
Click to expand...

I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. Why does Devin Booker need essentially an all star PG next to him? A PG that can pass, defend and shoot. Hell, every team wants that. Devin Booker has one big weakness and it's defense. Rubio is by far a better passer and defender so you let him control the ball and defend the lead guard and you let Booker play more of an expanded Buddy Hield role and concentrate on scoring more efficiently. Booker still has a ton of room to improve but your lead ball handler getting 6.8 assists and 4.1 turnovers a game isn't going to win you very many games. Something had to change there.
 
Rubio is going to be good for Ayton. He'll be able to get him the ball in the right place at the right time. I expect Ayton's productivity to go up quite a bit this season. Booker is a wild card who can be a negative or positive depending upon his influence of the chemistry of the team.
 
ESP47 said:
I'm not sure I understand your reasoning here. Why does Devin Booker need essentially an all star PG next to him? A PG that can pass, defend and shoot. Hell, every team wants that. Devin Booker has one big weakness and it's defense. Rubio is by far a better passer and defender so you let him control the ball and defend the lead guard and you let Booker play more of an expanded Buddy Hield role and concentrate on scoring more efficiently. Booker still has a ton of room to improve but your lead ball handler getting 6.8 assists and 4.1 turnovers a game isn't going to win you very many games. Something had to change there.
Click to expand...
The issue is does Booker want to be Buddy Hield like on offense? You’re talking about a guy who is 8th in the league in usage rate. Higher than Giannis who was MVP and higher than Lebron. Note that I never mentioned defense as an issue and in fact I used it as a strength in my previous post. Rubio will help on defense for sure, he’s a savvy vet.

Rubio is around the top 100 for usage rate himself and his greatest strength on offense is passing, which directly influences Booker’s game who needs the ball pretty much all the time. You would be asking Booker to completely change who he is as a player to accommodate Ricky Rubio. Think about that. One of the best scorers in the league giving up the rock to accommodate an aging Rubio whose style is being quickly rendered almost useless. Rubio went to the Suns because no one wants him. Rondo (similar type of style) is only on the Lakers because they have no money to pay anyone that’s better. Both would be in a far less prominent role if the Lakers had money and if the Suns were any good/smarter. The Suns would have been smarter getting a 3 and D point guard that can pass the ball decently and knows his role rather than a guy who needs to ball to be of any service on offense.

I’ll tell you right now what’s going to happen in the regular season. They will take turns sharing the rock initially and I’m sure there will be some good possessions, but eventually the alpha dog Booker is going to command the ball more especially in late game scenarios. Rubio isn’t remotely a threat to shoot the ball so his defender will instantly go to double Booker without really losing any sleep leaving Rubio open. Booker will then have a choice. Shoot or pass to bricklayer Rubio? Once teams begin to constantly double or triple team Booker, it will be obvious that Rubio’s strengths simply do not outweigh his inability to shoot.

Rubio is a good and smart player and he will definitely help them in some areas, particularly defense, but he is nowhere near a natural fit to Booker. They needed a guy who can shoot spot up threes and move the ball around when needed on offense but generally stays out of the way. Instead they signed a guy who needs the ball to be effective on offense and paired him with a guy who never lets go of it. Great idea!
 
Last edited:
Sac.Kings said:
The issue is does Booker want to be Buddy Hield like on offense? You’re talking about a guy who is 8th in the league in usage rate. Higher than Giannis who was MVP and higher than Lebron. Note that I never mentioned defense as an issue and in fact I used it as a strength in my previous post. Rubio will help on defense for sure, he’s a savvy vet.

Rubio is around the top 100 for usage rate himself and his greatest strength on offense is passing, which directly influences Booker’s game who needs the ball pretty much all the time. You would be asking Booker to completely change who he is as a player to accommodate Ricky Rubio. Think about that. One of the best scorers in the league giving up the rock to accommodate an aging Rubio whose style is being quickly rendered almost useless. Rubio went to the Suns because no one wants him. Rondo (similar type of style) is only on the Lakers because they have no money to pay anyone that’s better. Both would be in a far less prominent role if the Lakers had money and if the Suns were any good/smarter. The Suns would have been smarter getting a 3 and D point guard that can pass the ball decently and knows his role rather than a guy who needs to ball to be of any service on offense.

I’ll tell you right now what’s going to happen in the regular season. They will take turns sharing the rock initially and I’m sure there will be some good possessions, but eventually the alpha dog Booker is going to command the ball more especially in late game scenarios. Rubio isn’t remotely a threat to shoot the ball so his defender will instantly go to double Booker without really losing any sleep leaving Rubio open. Booker will then have a choice. Shoot or pass to bricklayer Rubio? Once teams begin to constantly double or triple team Booker, it will be obvious that Rubio’s strengths simply do not outweigh his inability to shoot.

Rubio is a good and smart player and he will definitely help them in some areas, particularly defense, but he is nowhere near a natural fit to Booker. They needed a guy who can shoot spot-up threes and move the ball around when needed on offense but generally stays out of the way. Instead, they signed a guy who needs the ball to be effective on offense and paired him with a guy who never lets go of it. Great idea!
Click to expand...
The triple team is poor strategy when you also have Ayton, Saric and Mikal Bridges on the court. Other than that, you have a point. I just think that the Suns would be good enough for 30+ wins with Rubio and the development of the young core.
 
rosa u podne said:
The triple team is poor strategy when you also have Ayton, Saric and Mikal Bridges on the court. Other than that, you have a point. I just think that the Suns would be good enough for 30+ wins with Rubio and the development of the young core.
Click to expand...
They might be around 30 wins but a lot has to go right for them. What they need, more than anything, is a good coach and they need the team to follow. We know all about a disjointed team from all of our awful teams. We underperformed a lot of the time because of poor coaching or the team quitting on the coach.
 
kingsfan1984 said:
Strongly disagree. Everything ive seen projecting the suns i think are overestimating them. I expect them at the bottom of the league again unless Booker completely changes his mindset.
Click to expand...
yea. their 'culture' is about tanking and their owner is useless
 
Sac.Kings said:
The issue is does Booker want to be Buddy Hield like on offense? You’re talking about a guy who is 8th in the league in usage rate. Higher than Giannis who was MVP and higher than Lebron. Note that I never mentioned defense as an issue and in fact I used it as a strength in my previous post. Rubio will help on defense for sure, he’s a savvy vet.

Rubio is around the top 100 for usage rate himself and his greatest strength on offense is passing, which directly influences Booker’s game who needs the ball pretty much all the time. You would be asking Booker to completely change who he is as a player to accommodate Ricky Rubio. Think about that. One of the best scorers in the league giving up the rock to accommodate an aging Rubio whose style is being quickly rendered almost useless. Rubio went to the Suns because no one wants him. Rondo (similar type of style) is only on the Lakers because they have no money to pay anyone that’s better. Both would be in a far less prominent role if the Lakers had money and if the Suns were any good/smarter. The Suns would have been smarter getting a 3 and D point guard that can pass the ball decently and knows his role rather than a guy who needs to ball to be of any service on offense.

I’ll tell you right now what’s going to happen in the regular season. They will take turns sharing the rock initially and I’m sure there will be some good possessions, but eventually the alpha dog Booker is going to command the ball more especially in late game scenarios. Rubio isn’t remotely a threat to shoot the ball so his defender will instantly go to double Booker without really losing any sleep leaving Rubio open. Booker will then have a choice. Shoot or pass to bricklayer Rubio? Once teams begin to constantly double or triple team Booker, it will be obvious that Rubio’s strengths simply do not outweigh his inability to shoot.

Rubio is a good and smart player and he will definitely help them in some areas, particularly defense, but he is nowhere near a natural fit to Booker. They needed a guy who can shoot spot up threes and move the ball around when needed on offense but generally stays out of the way. Instead they signed a guy who needs the ball to be effective on offense and paired him with a guy who never lets go of it. Great idea!
Click to expand...

Sometimes you've gotta dial it back a bit on a guy like Booker. He could wind up being one of the best offensive players in the league but he could also wind up being an empty statter just as easily. His usage rate has been very high the last couple years but I think it's been out of necessity since Tyler Ulis is essentially the only PG who has played a good amount of minutes for them.

If Booker just repeats what he did last year with that type of usage rate, the Suns will have a hard time winning. Rubio should help him dial his numbers back a bit. Him playing PG should make Booker more efficient and will help the offense run smoother with less turnovers. Even if Booker's PPG goes down a notch, the team should overall be better due to their main facilitator not having a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rubio will not be much help on the possessions that Booker is controlling but you would think Monty Williams knows this and wont have them playing 4 on 5 on offense very often. Rubio should be running the offense most the time while he and Booker are out there and if they want Booker to continue to run a good deal of the offense, they should stagger their minutes so he can do so with a better shooter next to him.
 
ESP47 said:
Sometimes you've gotta dial it back a bit on a guy like Booker. He could wind up being one of the best offensive players in the league but he could also wind up being an empty statter just as easily. His usage rate has been very high the last couple years but I think it's been out of necessity since Tyler Ulis is essentially the only PG who has played a good amount of minutes for them.

If Booker just repeats what he did last year with that type of usage rate, the Suns will have a hard time winning. Rubio should help him dial his numbers back a bit. Him playing PG should make Booker more efficient and will help the offense run smoother with less turnovers. Even if Booker's PPG goes down a notch, the team should overall be better due to their main facilitator not having a terrible assist to turnover ratio. Rubio will not be much help on the possessions that Booker is controlling but you would think Monty Williams knows this and wont have them playing 4 on 5 on offense very often. Rubio should be running the offense most the time while he and Booker are out there and if they want Booker to continue to run a good deal of the offense, they should stagger their minutes so he can do so with a better shooter next to him.
Click to expand...
Those are a lot of variables to control if you’re the head coach. Convince Booker to not have the ball all the time and not to shoot as much, stagger minutes for your starting PG and SG, and keep everyone happy doing so. You said exactly what I think the problem is. If Booker is to control the ball, Rubio is worthless to them. Give Rubio the ball and then you turn Booker from devastating scorer to spot up shooter or cutter. You and I are just looking at the same situation from different ends of the spectrum. You think it will work in the long run and I think it’s going to cause problems.
 
Rubio/Booker is a less talented version of CP3/Harden but with the same challenges. Even though CP3 is a better shooter than Rubio, both are best with the ball and play(played) with ball dominant guards. One opinion is that if this did not work out in H-Town it won’t work in Phoenix.
 
Kingster said:
Rubio is going to be good for Ayton. He'll be able to get him the ball in the right place at the right time. I expect Ayton's productivity to go up quite a bit this season. Booker is a wild card who can be a negative or positive depending upon his influence of the chemistry of the team.
Click to expand...

I share the same thoughts in regard to Ayton benefiting more so than Booker playing alongside Rubio. Rubio is a pass first PG and he is a willing passer and he knows his role so he will get Ayton in the right spots just based on his basketball experience alone.
 
Sac.Kings said:
Those are a lot of variables to control if you’re the head coach. Convince Booker to not have the ball all the time and not to shoot as much, stagger minutes for your starting PG and SG, and keep everyone happy doing so. You said exactly what I think the problem is. If Booker is to control the ball, Rubio is worthless to them. Give Rubio the ball and then you turn Booker from devastating scorer to spot up shooter or cutter. You and I are just looking at the same situation from different ends of the spectrum. You think it will work in the long run and I think it’s going to cause problems.
Click to expand...

Booker is well rounded on offense enough to where he doesn't need a specific PG next to him. The problems you're expressing with Rubio are problems that would arise with virtually any team Rubio joins. Rubio is much better at running the offense than Booker so it's actually a much better situation than they had last year, even though Rubio can't shoot. Booker barely has a better assist to turnover ratio than Buddy Hield. Can you imagine Hield running the offense most the time?

I'm not saying it's going to work. I'm just giving you my opinion on how the coach could make it work.
 
ESP47 said:
Booker is well rounded on offense enough to where he doesn't need a specific PG next to him. The problems you're expressing with Rubio are problems that would arise with virtually any team Rubio joins. Rubio is much better at running the offense than Booker so it's actually a much better situation than they had last year, even though Rubio can't shoot. Booker barely has a better assist to turnover ratio than Buddy Hield. Can you imagine Hield running the offense most the time?

I'm not saying it's going to work. I'm just giving you my opinion on how the coach could make it work.
Click to expand...
I get what you’re saying, but they will have to really work on it to make it gel. As long as everyone knows what they have to do and they’re ok with it, there’s solid potential there. But with all the doubles Booker and Ayton will get, it’s really going to hamstring them having Rubio out there. But that’s why the head coach gets the big bucks.
 
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