Kings' Luke Walton wants competition, Buddy Hield not guaranteed to start

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SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#31
Another Fun Fact
Name a team in the NBA that has their highest paid player not be a starter?

It would be ludicrous to not start Buddy after all that has taken place.
Just to at least get him built up to ship him out for craps sake. The only justifiable excuse would be if they are winning with him on the bench. Even if he's not the long term guy how do you expect value back otherwise?
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#32
Harrison Barnes said on Twitter to not run and take advantage of DeAaron’s speed and the roster built around him would be criminal.

Luke Walton, your team is going to be fast paced or else.
I really don't think pace is going to be an issue. He ran in LA, the problem is who he thinks he's going to do it with and what the half court sets look like. There is reason LeBron was like oh hell no. Hopefully we see growth from Walton but so far we're hearing things that sound like butthurt more than anything. Gee, wonder why. They just fired his GM and put his replacement over his shoulder. While you can't blame him for being sketched, don't be shy if this heads south Vivek.
 
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SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#33
Let's revisit this after a half season of seeing Haliburton out playing Buddy.
Just like with Bogdan, this shouldn't be an either or. You have the most workable situation at PG/SG on paper you could. There is no reason these 3 can't work just fine. Too many teams go with 4 guard lineups for them not to all find plenty of minutes.
 
#34
Let's revisit this after a half season of seeing Haliburton out playing Buddy.
First of all, you're putting a lot of hope in a rookie- I suggest managing expectations or you'll be hating on Haliburton next.

Second of all, Haliburton outplaying Hield has nothing to do with the idea that Hield can be 6MOY on this team, so I'm not sure what your point is. Let me put it this way, if Haliburton outplays Buddy, there is zero chance of Buddy being 6MOY. And if not, Buddy shouldn't be coming off the bench, so he's not getting 6moy either.
 
#35
Harrison Barnes said on Twitter to not run and take advantage of DeAaron’s speed and the roster built around him would be criminal.

Luke Walton, your team is going to be fast paced or else.
It's interesting to hear that level of candor from Harrison Barnes since he's generally very composed and diplomatic in his interviews. I wonder if we'll see the players just ignore Luke and run the offense they want to run at some point this season. It seems like the stage may be set for that kind of a player takeover. Nobody really seems to have Luke's back in the organization anymore.
 
#36
It's interesting to hear that level of candor from Harrison Barnes since he's generally very composed and diplomatic in his interviews. I wonder if we'll see the players just ignore Luke and run the offense they want to run at some point this season. It seems like the stage may be set for that kind of a player takeover. Nobody really seems to have Luke's back in the organization anymore.
Found it funny that Luke went out of his way to say he had a great relationship with Vlade and Peja. Good luck Luke, you actually need to deliver results now!
 
#39
First of all, you're putting a lot of hope in a rookie- I suggest managing expectations or you'll be hating on Haliburton next.

Second of all, Haliburton outplaying Hield has nothing to do with the idea that Hield can be 6MOY on this team, so I'm not sure what your point is. Let me put it this way, if Haliburton outplays Buddy, there is zero chance of Buddy being 6MOY. And if not, Buddy shouldn't be coming off the bench, so he's not getting 6moy either.
1. Doesn't take much to outplay Buddy. Did Buddy not suck most of last year? So expectations are already moderate.
2. I agree with you, Buddy would never be 6th man of the year. He could, but instead he would pout and play tank commander. As for its relevance? The best man starts. Buddy comes off the bench by the 2H of the season.
 
#40
Harrison Barnes said on Twitter to not run and take advantage of DeAaron’s speed and the roster built around him would be criminal.

Luke Walton, your team is going to be fast paced or else.
you have a link to that tweet? i cannot find it. i was curious to see if this was in response to something or just tweeting.
 

dude12

Hall of Famer
#42
you have a link to that tweet? i cannot find it. i was curious to see if this was in response to something or just tweeting.
It was a Jason Anderson tweet, here’s the accurate response.
Kings F Harrison Barnes on improving pace: "It's just maximizing the personnel we have. When we have a guy like (De'Aaron) Fox, who is one of the most dynamic players in the league, to not capitalize on that is criminal.”
 
#43
The trinity of Fox-Buddy-Haliburton is the key to Luke's back court because that's how Buddy can be kept as pure shooter and sprinter. Buddy sucked when he stays with the ball for more than 3 seconds or starts to dribble it in traffic. But with Fox and Haliburton always with him at the back court, Buddy should just run around like a headless chicken and get to a spot where he is clear to shoot (the best King players with this game was Kevin Martin and Peja). As one of best sprinters in the league (when he is into it), this should be very fundamental for Buddy to do and he got better physicals than Peja or Kevin Martin. 32 minutes backcourt rotation should be Fox (PG) - Buddy (SG) -> Haliburton (PG)-Buddy (SG) -> Fox (PG) -> Haliburton (SG). But you need to warm your shooter early, and that means Buddy starts and ends games.
 
#44
1. Doesn't take much to outplay Buddy. Did Buddy not suck most of last year? So expectations are already moderate.
2. I agree with you, Buddy would never be 6th man of the year. He could, but instead he would pout and play tank commander. As for its relevance? The best man starts. Buddy comes off the bench by the 2H of the season.
Would you agree Walton's use of Buddy did not utilize his talents as well as the previous year when coached by Joerger? Buddy was often bringing the ball up last year and even initiating the offense like he was Kobe or someone he is not. So IMO Walton is responsible if as you say Buddy sucked most of last year.
 
#45
The trinity of Fox-Buddy-Haliburton is the key to Luke's back court because that's how Buddy can be kept as pure shooter and sprinter. Buddy sucked when he stays with the ball for more than 3 seconds or starts to dribble it in traffic. But with Fox and Haliburton always with him at the back court, Buddy should just run around like a headless chicken and get to a spot where he is clear to shoot (the best King players with this game was Kevin Martin and Peja). As one of best sprinters in the league (when he is into it), this should be very fundamental for Buddy to do and he got better physicals than Peja or Kevin Martin. 32 minutes backcourt rotation should be Fox (PG) - Buddy (SG) -> Haliburton (PG)-Buddy (SG) -> Fox (PG) -> Haliburton (SG). But you need to warm your shooter early, and that means Buddy starts and ends games.
I like what you are saying here!
 
#46
Fun fact: in the past 20 years (I didn't bother to go further than that), the 6th man of the year's team has had an average win% of 65%, and every single one of those teams made the playoffs except for the 2017-18 Clippers with Lou Williams (and they were above .500 mind you).

I guess what I'm trying to say is, thinking Buddy can be 6th man of the year on this season's Sacramento Kings is "much of a stretch".

Year Player Team Wins Losses Win % Made Playoffs?
2019-20 Montrezl Harrell LAC 49 23 68.1% Y
2018-19 Lou Williams LAC 48 34 58.5% Y
2017-18 Lou Williams LAC 42 40 51.2% N
2016-17 Eric Gordon HOU 55 27 67.1% Y
2015-16 Jamal Crawford LAC 53 29 64.6% Y
2014-15 Lou Williams TOR 49 33 59.8% Y
2013-14 Jamal Crawford LAC 57 25 69.5% Y
2012-13 J.R. Smith NYK 54 28 65.9% Y
2011-12 James Harden OKC 47 19 71.2% Y
2010-11 Lamar Odom LAL 57 25 69.5% Y
2009-10 Jamal Crawford ATL 53 29 64.6% Y
2008-09 Jason Terry DAL 50 32 61.0% Y
2007-08 Manu Ginóbili SAS 56 26 68.3% Y
2006-07 Leandro Barbosa PHO 61 21 74.4% Y
2005-06 Mike Miller MEM 49 33 59.8% Y
2004-05 Ben Gordon CHI 47 35 57.3% Y
2003-04 Antawn Jamison DAL 52 30 63.4% Y
2002-03 Bobby Jackson SAC 59 23 72.0% Y
2001-02 Corliss Williamson DET 50 32 61.0% Y
2000-01 Aaron McKie PHI 56 26 68.3% Y
1999-00 Rodney Rogers PHO 53 29 64.6% Y
Glass half full. Halliburton gets rookie of the year. Buddy gets 6th man of the year AND kings make the playoffs I mean that stats back it up if the first 2 happen right? I guess that’s glass all the way full ;)
 
#47
you have a link to that tweet? i cannot find it. i was curious to see if this was in response to something or just tweeting.
From an article by James Ham:

Monte McNair said the Kings are going to push the pace this season. Luke Walton said the Kings are going to push the pace this season.

De’Aaron Fox said the Kings are going to push the pace the season. Harrison Barnes took it a step further.

“Running primarily and getting out in transition, will one, just increase our pace, increase some of the shots we’ll be able to get, but it’s just maximizing the personnel that we have. When we have a guy like Fox, who is one of the most dynamic players in the league, to not capitalize on that is criminal.”
 
#48
1. Doesn't take much to outplay Buddy. Did Buddy not suck most of last year? So expectations are already moderate.
2. I agree with you, Buddy would never be 6th man of the year. He could, but instead he would pout and play tank commander. As for its relevance? The best man starts. Buddy comes off the bench by the 2H of the season.
Ah, you're one of those.
 
#49
The previous Barnes comments are missing a lot of context. Sounds less like Walton bashing and more like he's approving the current strategy. Jones also provides a lot more context on why the Kings played slower last year--half court execution issues, Vlade's preference to improve half court execution, injuries...

Sounds like we'll be seeing a decent amount of Bjelly, Bags, and Kaminsky at the five. And contrary to some folk's belief, Buddy's going to be tasked with attacking (like, actually dribble) from the perimeter (unless, of course, he decides to not do the right thing and chuck the ball instead---likely, because he's a tank commander).

https://theathletic.com/2235624/202...out-to-open-up-the-floor-and-let-guys-create/
 
#50
The previous Barnes comments are missing a lot of context. Sounds less like Walton bashing and more like he's approving the current strategy. Jones also provides a lot more context on why the Kings played slower last year--half court execution issues, Vlade's preference to improve half court execution, injuries...

Sounds like we'll be seeing a decent amount of Bjelly, Bags, and Kaminsky at the five. And contrary to some folk's belief, Buddy's going to be tasked with attacking (like, actually dribble) from the perimeter (unless, of course, he decides to not do the right thing and chuck the ball instead---likely, because he's a tank commander).

https://theathletic.com/2235624/202...out-to-open-up-the-floor-and-let-guys-create/
Do we really want Buddy dribbling? I didn’t necessarily get from the article that Buddy would be tasked with attacking the basket more, but instead that the 5 out sets would give Fox space to attack — potentially setting up Buddy for a lot more set threes where he excels.
 
#51
Do we really want Buddy dribbling? I didn’t necessarily get from the article that Buddy would be tasked with attacking the basket more, but instead that the 5 out sets would give Fox space to attack — potentially setting up Buddy for a lot more set threes where he excels.
Ideally Buddy would get more open looks, but for it to be at it's absolute best, the team needs all 5 to be a triple threat once they receive the ball. But given his propensities, he'll likely chuck the ball 95% of the time.

Imagine if we traded Buddy and kept Bogi. Bogi > Buddy, especially in a 5 out system.
 
#52
Ideally Buddy would get more open looks, but for it to be at it's absolute best, the team needs all 5 to be a triple threat once they receive the ball. But given his propensities, he'll likely chuck the ball 95% of the time.

Imagine if we traded Buddy and kept Bogi. Bogi > Buddy, especially in a 5 out system.
I think you've officially gone off the deep end with your Buddy hate.
 
#53
Ideally Buddy would get more open looks, but for it to be at it's absolute best, the team needs all 5 to be a triple threat once they receive the ball. But given his propensities, he'll likely chuck the ball 95% of the time.

Imagine if we traded Buddy and kept Bogi. Bogi > Buddy, especially in a 5 out system.
Buddy is a better pure shooter than Bogi. IMO thinking you will have 5 guys out and they can all dribble drive is pretty unrealistic. Buddys game is the set shot, perhaps the best pure shooter in the NBA.
 
#54
1. Doesn't take much to outplay Buddy. Did Buddy not suck most of last year? So expectations are already moderate.
2. I agree with you, Buddy would never be 6th man of the year. He could, but instead he would pout and play tank commander. As for its relevance? The best man starts. Buddy comes off the bench by the 2H of the season.
Listen, I am not a fan of Buddy either on this Kings team but let's not pretend like he is some scrub. He had a down year yes from his great 19-20 campaign but still put up 19/5/3 and shot the three 39%. I wouldn't call that sucking and am willing to bet there is more than one team that would line up day one if we made Buddy available. The way you talk about him you'd think the guy is the Corliss Williamson of shooting guards.
 
#55
Listen, I am not a fan of Buddy either on this Kings team but let's not pretend like he is some scrub. He had a down year yes from his great 19-20 campaign but still put up 19/5/3 and shot the three 39%. I wouldn't call that sucking and am willing to bet there is more than one team that would line up day one if we made Buddy available. The way you talk about him you'd think the guy is the Corliss Williamson of shooting guards.
Buddy is the type of player you have to use just right to get maximum value. I almost think in the role of Bertans. Let him bomb threes. If he is open, he shoots it. Let him crash the boards. Do not expect him to initiate the offense. Do not let him bring the ball up the court. A good coach has to maximize the talents of his players. A properly used Buddy is absolutely an asset.
 
#56
Buddy isn't bad at everything except shooting like some make it out to be. The issue is that when there are absolutely no other offensive players that scare you on the floor, like when Bagley and Fox are hurt, the opponents go all in to get the ball out of his hands.

Is he elite at ball handling and playmaking (whatever that means to each individual)? No. But decent enough that Hield is a better option to run the offense than Joseph. Decent enough to where he could excel against other NBA teams second units.

Buddy is not a player who can carry a team on his back like your superstar players, but can be an absolute beast on a team that either runs him off screens, etc properly, or has enough talent where opponents would get burned for focusing all of their defensive effort to keep the ball out of Hield's hands.
 
#57
Buddy is the type of player you have to use just right to get maximum value. I almost think in the role of Bertans. Let him bomb threes. If he is open, he shoots it. Let him crash the boards. Do not expect him to initiate the offense. Do not let him bring the ball up the court. A good coach has to maximize the talents of his players. A properly used Buddy is absolutely an asset.
Used this way Buddy can play well into his thirties as shooting is the last thing to go. Just have him run, get open and shoot, then repeat.
 
#60
Just like with Bogdan, this shouldn't be an either or. You have the most workable situation at PG/SG on paper you could. There is no reason these 3 can't work just fine. Too many teams go with 4 guard lineups for them not to all find plenty of minutes.
If Haliburton is good or as active on defense as projected (granted it will take some growing pains) having all 3 on the court simultaneously would play out a little different than having both Bogi and Buddy on at the same time would.