sactowndog
All-Star
Bogi had a defensive rating of 133.3 tonight. Combined with Fox’s rating of 125.9, Bagley’s rating of 122.2, and Buddy’s rating of 121.8... the team really missed CoJo having extended minutes. His rating was 107.5.
[Game] Kings @ Hornets - Tuesday, Dec. 17 - 4PT, 7ET (Return of the Fox)
- Thread starter VF21
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Bogi had a defensive rating of 133.3 tonight. Combined with Fox’s rating of 125.9, Bagley’s rating of 122.2, and Buddy’s rating of 121.8... the team really missed CoJo having extended minutes. His rating was 107.5.
burekijogurt
Starter
All of our guards were horrific on defense tonight other than CoJo.
sactowndog
All-Star
True but Fox was equally as bad. Where is your criticism of him?
burekijogurt
Starter
yeah their guards killed us in both games. the only perimeter defender we have is CoJo
sactowndog
All-Star
Which is why the point Fox taking CoJo’s minutes could conceivably make us worse in the short term is not implausible. We have no one, except maybe James, who can do what CoJo does.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
None of our guards had a great night defensively in the second half. But in crunch time, it was Bogi who was routinely overplaying his man/freelancing on defense. Fox is also coming off a month and a half-long injury, is 22 years old, and didn't get lit up by Malik Monk.
Bottom line is the Kings are just an average team (at best). You are what your record says you are and let's face it the record isn't good. They really haven't been "good" since the first half of last season.
They're a scrappy team and they do have talent......as such certain nights they rise up and beat better teams like Denver and Houston. In some cases maybe they catch those teams sleeping just like the Knicks caught them sleeping. However in the case of a team like Charlotte, are the Kings really a better team? Record doesn't indicate as such and they lose to them. Seems self explanatory that they're not and even if they are the margins are slim enough that of the Kings don't play well they're going to lose.
There seems to be this consistent notion here that the Kings are a better team than their record and that they should be winning so many of these games against teams like Charlotte, Chicago, etc.......but that's just not the case. Sad to say but they're almost one of those teams until they prove otherwise.
They're a scrappy team and they do have talent......as such certain nights they rise up and beat better teams like Denver and Houston. In some cases maybe they catch those teams sleeping just like the Knicks caught them sleeping. However in the case of a team like Charlotte, are the Kings really a better team? Record doesn't indicate as such and they lose to them. Seems self explanatory that they're not and even if they are the margins are slim enough that of the Kings don't play well they're going to lose.
There seems to be this consistent notion here that the Kings are a better team than their record and that they should be winning so many of these games against teams like Charlotte, Chicago, etc.......but that's just not the case. Sad to say but they're almost one of those teams until they prove otherwise.
Hope springs eternal. You can see the same thing on virtually any sports board in any league. There are also some who consistently think the Kings are worse than they are - and actually seem to relish the bad more than the good. All part and parcel of being active on a message board.
KingsFanSince85
All-Star
No offense to you, but that Bill Parcells quote is such a tired and inaccurate saying. Nothing is ever black and white. There are always teams better and worse than their records indicate. There are lots of factors and reasons as to why.
That doesn’t mean this particular KINGS team is better than its record, but it’s certainly a possibility. I happen to believe that they are. The proof, to me, is how they perform against top competition. Something many of these lower level teams they’re losing to aren’t able to do as consistently.
They just happen to be an immature team that plays up and down to its competition. You can’t convince me they aren’t a lot more talented and skilled than this Charlotte team they’ve laid eggs against twice.
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Why keep score then and have standings? Parcells quote holds weight because it's the truth. When you lose more than you win you're not a good team simple as that. One could make the argument I was being kind calling the Kings average too because they're below .500 and as mentioned they were the entire half of last season too.
Many here seem to want to pretend those first 5 games didn't happen either but they did. 5 losses in the standings and they all count the same at the end. Other teams with new coaches and players hit the ground running so that's not a completely valid excuse either.
At some point the wins/losses need to align with hopes/expectations. After a while the "coulda, woulda, shoulda" excuse being used over and over gets old. We're less than 30 games into the new season and it's seemingly been used for 10+ losses already.
Depends how you're defining average.
Chupacabra
Starter
As a side note, we seem to absolutely hate beating the Hornets.
(Forgot to hit "Post Reply" at around noon today)
(Forgot to hit "Post Reply" at around noon today)
I think it matters less how you define average and how you add context to the existing results. Is this team average with a new coach/system and two of your young, core pieces missing significant time? Or are you (not YOU) saying it's average at full strength? We don't have results for a full strength team that just had it's best free agency off season in a decade. We have contextual results that say that yes, by record and on the basis of the good and bad teams we've beat or lost to probably makes our injured team giving us average results. So yeah, great quote that fits the narrative, but context is just as important as results.
Also, other teams who had new coaches and players who hit the ground running....context is also important. The Lakers had two big new players who are generational talents at their respective opinions AND didn't get hurt. Look at Zion...he was supposed to be the reason AD leaving was ok, but he got hurt and they have a double digit losing streak. Record is NOT 100% reflective of the talent of the team on the floor.
I agree in that the losing streak was very bad to start this season - an indication of at least a lack of preparation. I made the comment in a different thread wondering if this year's team can make it to 30-26 which was last year's team's peak position. The defense has gotten better, but the offense worse. Their net ppg is actually a little worse as well.
As for today's games highlights, they looked slow on defense, too reactive, and not enough help on the interior during drives. Hornets looked more aggressive much of the game.
63royals
Bench
Just got done watching the game. Of course I was disappointed that the Kings scored fewer points in the game. However, I also got to see Fox complaining to the ref that it wasn't a foul because he jumped OVER the guy. In his first game back. So, regardless of the actual score, I still see it as a win.
Yet, the starters are also getting torched including Holmes. They haven’t been right for a few games now.
John Galt
Starter
if you are going to play a game the first thing you should understand is "how do you decide who wins - how do you keep score?". Not "how much potential can I flash, how much wishing can I wish, how much excuses can I excuse, how artfully can I lose"
There are wins and losses. period. it is just that black and white in the end.
"You are what your record says you are" is axiomatic to me. People have a right to disagree but I'm all in with Parcels on that one.
This is why I think Walton is making somewhat of a mistake by restricting his bench to 9. Ferrell, Dedmon, James, and Giles all may be able to contribute, and may create new dynamics on offense or defense. I would like to see him shuffling lineups to try different combinations with both Fox and Bagley. When you're opponent like the Hornets are a step ahead on offense, using the bench to instill energy might've been better earlier in the game. The Kings were out-rebounded 51-36.
In the NBA when you have all-star level talent, you can restrict the bench more......this team doesn't really have that yet - starting players are still developing and/or are not all-star level.
Great to see Fox back on the floor. He brings a lot to the team and he was missed.
Charlotte has some talent. They played the inside/outside game. They out shot the Kings by a lot. They outrebounded the Kings 51-33 with 16 offensive boards. That is the game right there. The Kings were beat in the paint.
Mr. Holmes got one defensive rebound. One.
Malik Monk was the difference down the stretch.
Charlotte has some talent. They played the inside/outside game. They out shot the Kings by a lot. They outrebounded the Kings 51-33 with 16 offensive boards. That is the game right there. The Kings were beat in the paint.
Mr. Holmes got one defensive rebound. One.
Malik Monk was the difference down the stretch.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Fox deserves a pass for at least a couple of weeks. Even if he was as bad as Bogs on D, which he wasn't, I'm not going to criticize him after coming back from a long hiatus from an ankle injury. I won't criticize him in the next game or the game after that either. Heck, at this point we don't even know how his ankle is responding to last night's game.
Showtime
Starter
After watching the game, here's a few things:
- When Buddy isn't shooting or making shots, he's GOT to find a way to contribute.
- I'd much rather have Holmes on the floor at this point than Bagley. He played a little over 20 minutes and is averaging over 28 a game this season. I think RH could have used more PT. Bagley IMO isn't good enough to start and should lead up the second unit along with Bogi as a scorer, because he doesn't do much else offensively.
- Perimeter defense sans CoJo is painfully bad. Hornets broke the game open in the third when the Kings had nobody to defend Monk and Graham. It would have been nice to see what Yogi could have done with some minutes using his speed to keep up with them instead of Buddy and Fox getting torched.
- Defensive rebounding didn't exist. Kings got out-rebounded 51-33, giving up 16 offensive rebounds. That cannot happen.
gunks
Hall of Famer
Lol, you totally quoted a "pocket post"..... I just deleted it. I randomly quoted somebody else in the middle of it. Phones, man. ...
Anyways! Yes, I agree! We've been shakey lately. Our SG rotation in particular was horrible last night. Barnes was a no show...
This team needs Fox, once they acclimate, he's gonna be huge for our offense.
Bagley needs to learn how to play defense though....
Kingster
Hall of Famer
Walton was on the radio and said he says to his players, "Guard your yard," meaning keep your man in front of you. Not much of that happened in the Hornets game and a lot of easy offensive rebounds were allowed because of it. He said that the Kings better "hit first" when it comes to rebounding against the Pacers, otherwise they will get killed on the boards.
Kangztillidie
Bench
Agree on all, especially the rebounding. Bagley needs to work harder on the glass and everyone needs to learn the basic fundamental of blocking out. Its ridiculous.
Losing to the Hornets is annoying, but losing to the Pacers, much less so and frankly expected - the Pacers are a better team than the KIngs this season.
Chupacabra
Starter
I knew the Hornets would lose to Cleveland today. It's like their whole off-season and regular season is spent game planning and prepping for the two times they play the Kings. I'm ready for cancel culture to take them out.
Kingster
Hall of Famer
The Kings have beaten teams they've been expected to lose against. You never know with this team.
