Kings #5 Pick for Pau Gasol?

[Peter_Gibbons]

The Lakers have been shopping Pau for the last 2 seasons and they are reportedly still doing so. There are rumors that the lakers have interest ins trading Pau for the Wizards' 3rd pick.

If we offer out #5 + Isiah Thomas, it seems like a fair deal. I like IT, but we do need to give up something in order to get a top 3 power forward in the game. The lakers will like this because Sessions just opted out and has a high chance he won't be back.

With Pau + Cousins in the front court, we become an instant playoff team. If Tyreke's hard work translates to the season next year, sky's the limit.

I know some will say that Pau is aging or his contract is big, but there is almost zero chance for us to get a young all star level talent without giving up one.

Pau should still have at least 3-4 good years left as he relies on skills and not his athleticism.

What does everyone else think?

 

[hrdboild]

God no. Like you said, Gasol has maybe 3-4 productive years left. So about the time whatever rookie we could have drafted at 5 will be hitting their stride alongside Evans and Cousins, Pau Gasol will be breaking down and our playoff hopes along with him. It should tell you something that the Lakers have been openly shopping him for two years now. Besides that, I'm not even sure he's worth a top 5 pick now on talent alone. He was maybe a top 3 PF in the league when the Lakers acquired him. At this point he's already well into the "declining production / overpaid" portion of his career. I'd rather have Andre Drummond and I'm not even that high on Andre Drummond right now.

 

[Schmoe]

Slowly back away from the pipe.

 

[Heuge]

That would be great.

 

[Hoovtrain]

So we take the Lakers off the hook for an aging Gasol and his bloated contract while giving them a great pick in a deep draft and a PG that would start for them? No thanks. Gasol is a very good player and its intruiging. Maybe if this was 3 years ago.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

God no. Like you said, Gasol has maybe 3-4 productive years left. So about the time whatever rookie we could have drafted at 5 will be hitting their stride alongside Evans and Cousins, Pau Gasol will be breaking down and our playoff hopes along with him. It should tell you something that the Lakers have been openly shopping him for two years now. Besides that, I'm not even sure he's worth a top 5 pick now on talent alone. He was maybe a top 3 PF in the league when the Lakers acquired him. At this point he's already well into the "declining production / overpaid" portion of his career. I'd rather have Andre Drummond and I'm not even that high on Andre Drummond right now.

What guarantees that we will be a playoff team and a contender 3-4 years from now by drafting another young prospect at 5? For all we know, if the Maloofs let Tyreke leave because they don't want to match a max offer. Where would we be at?

I think a lot of people wrote off Pau because they just look at how his stats dipped this year. Keep in mind he became the odd man out because many of his touches went to Bynum and kobe refused to share any of "his" possessions because he wants to remain the top dog instead of team first. Pau voiced a few times saying there is "a certain level of selfishness on this team". In a "down" year, Pau averaged 17.4 pts, 10.4 rebs.

If Pau gets the amount of shots an all star is suppose to get, he will easily average around 20 & 10 again while helping run the offense very smoothly as he is a very willing and capable passer.

I will add that he is one of the best team first stars out there.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

So we take the Lakers off the hook for an aging Gasol and his bloated contract while giving them a great pick in a deep draft and a PG that would start for them? No thanks. Gasol is a very good player and its intruiging. Maybe if this was 3 years ago.

If you know the lakers' offense, you would know that IT would NOT do very well there. KB always demands the ball in the half court and IT will really just be the guy that brings the ball up court, pass to kobe and then maybe wait for an open shot when kobe gets trapped. Thats why Fisher actually fits better next to kobe than Sessions.

As I said, I understand Pau's contract is big. But how do you suggest we get an all star who is a nice team guy that will help the young players on the Kings get along and not come in an demand to be the man? Besides the rare young players that are already all stars in the rookie contract, all stars will have a max contract.

 

[LWP777]

Man, this is a hard one! I don't think I give up #5 + a nice young player in IT, but if they would take #5 + Salmons or Garcia I think you'd have to look at it really closely. I agree with Peter on this one. A lot of people are writing off Pau but his numbers are still extremely solid. We would have a huge frontline that rebounds well and passes well. I think if we stayed healthy and signed a decent SF we could be a 5-8 seed. I really do.

SF: Ryan Anderson-AK47?
PF: Cousins
C: Gasol
SG: Evans
PG: Thomas

Bench: Thornton, TWill, Salmons or Garcia, JT, Jimmer, Whiteside, Outlaw

That's pretty solid!

 

[Tetsujin]

Once again, rule number one: Never trade with LA

 

[steelevt]

Man, this is a hard one! I don't think I give up #5 + a nice young player in IT, but if they would take #5 + Salmons or Garcia I think you'd have to look at it really closely. I agree with Peter on this one. A lot of people are writing off Pau but his numbers are still extremely solid. We would have a huge frontline that rebounds well and passes well. I think if we stayed healthy and signed a decent SF we could be a 5-8 seed. I really do.

SF: Ryan Anderson-AK47?
PF: Cousins
C: Gasol
SG: Evans
PG: Thomas

Bench: Thornton, TWill, Salmons or Garcia, JT, Jimmer, Whiteside, Outlaw

That's pretty solid!

if what all the rumors are saying that we will trade down anyways its a matter of pau vs henson/zeller. so pau averaging 17/10 give or take vs what henson/zeller could be + lets say lowry. if we make them take salmons, i would think about it.

 

[Hoovtrain]

If you know the lakers' offense, you would know that IT would NOT do very well there. KB always demands the ball in the half court and IT will really just be the guy that brings the ball up court, pass to kobe and then maybe wait for an open shot when kobe gets trapped. Thats why Fisher actually fits better next to kobe than Sessions.

As I said, I understand Pau's contract is big. But how do you suggest we get an all star who is a nice team guy that will help the young players on the Kings get along and not come in an demand to be the man? Besides the rare young players that are already all stars in the rookie contract, all stars will have a max contract.

He would still be better than anything they currently have and would start.
As for your Pau question, im all for getting a player like that in here, just not a 31 year old who will be 32 when the season starts and who is on the wrong side of his career ... at the expense of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft.

 

[VF21]

Once again, rule number one: Never trade with LA

What he said.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Man, this is a hard one! I don't think I give up #5 + a nice young player in IT, but if they would take #5 + Salmons or Garcia I think you'd have to look at it really closely. I agree with Peter on this one. A lot of people are writing off Pau but his numbers are still extremely solid. We would have a huge frontline that rebounds well and passes well. I think if we stayed healthy and signed a decent SF we could be a 5-8 seed. I really do.

SF: Ryan Anderson-AK47?
PF: Cousins
C: Gasol
SG: Evans
PG: Thomas

Bench: Thornton, TWill, Salmons or Garcia, JT, Jimmer, Whiteside, Outlaw

That's pretty solid!

My thoughts exactly. Which team would have the length and defender that can match up with a front line of Cousins + Pau? The are both automatic 10+ rebs a game, both skilled, passes. I guarantee that the offense will look smooth all of a sudden.

It doesn't have to be IT that goes with the trade, but I'm just assuming that Lakers would ask for IT because Sessions might be gone. If they accept Salmons, then even better.

 

[DesertFox]

Yeah, Pau would essentially the team's (only) big veteran addition for the next 3-4 years, so they would have to take Salmons, not IT, for me to consider.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

He would still be better than anything they currently have and would start.
As for your Pau question, im all for getting a player like that in here, just not a 31 year old who will be 32 when the season starts and who is on the wrong side of his career ... at the expense of a top 5 pick in a loaded draft.

We are not going to get an all star that is young. No one is going to give up someone like that without getting a lot back.

Realistically, if we trade the 5th for Lowry + picks like some rumors, we will forever be in rebuilding mode and lottery. If we have a 4 year window to win, we take it. There are too many teams thats been in the lottery for years and years. We will continue to be one of those teams if we keep barking at every deal that doesn't involve a home run deal of a young all star talent with a small contract. Its not going to happen.

 

[LWP777]

What he said.

Okay, if you could just set aside the LA thing for a minute, would you do it? Imagine Pau played for Memphis again.

 

[Admiral]

Once again, rule number one: Never trade with LA

This is what my heart IMMEDIATELY said to me...but...if Amick's feelings on not liking mkg/barnes prove any kind of true and we can get a legit star who could even help Cuz out with some pointers as he grows into the monster DMC we all expect that still puts up solid numbers as a #3 option? As someone else mentioned, if we can get them to take one of our...ahem...not so good SFs like Salmons, you'd be hard pressed not to at least consider it. that's a freakin' legit front court, both of which have a solid mid range game to help open things up for MT and a hopefully improved MT.

That said...I agree the potential longer term picture gets messier when we don't have our young #5 pick coming into his own when Pau's contract is up and he's (assuming) no longer a 17/10 guy producing at anywhere near what he'd be getting paid. Ending contract trade bait later? maybe...incredibly interesting thought.

But...again...my heart is fully against it. I'm not sure I could look my laker friend (yes, he unfortunately exists) in the eye...

 

[Hoovtrain]

Despite my objections, it would still be entertaining to watch him paired with Cousins and Reke.

 

[LWP777]

If you added Pau and a SF who could actually shoot the basketball you would have a very balanced attack with an IT-Reke-Pau-DMC-SF (shooter) lineup.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

If you added Pau and a SF who could actually shoot the basketball you would have a very balanced attack with an IT-Reke-Pau-DMC-SF (shooter) lineup.

We would be very difficult to defend. And we would win the rebounding war all the time. Rebounds = wins most of the time. Cousins mentioned before that Pau was one of his favorite players to watch and learn from. Imagine Pau tutoring Cousins.

 

[Hoovtrain]

We are not going to get an all star that is young. No one is going to give up someone like that without getting a lot back.

Realistically, if we trade the 5th for Lowry + picks like some rumors, we will forever be in rebuilding mode and lottery. If we have a 4 year window to win, we take it. There are too many teams thats been in the lottery for years and years. We will continue to be one of those teams if we keep barking at every deal that doesn't involve a home run deal of a young all star talent with a small contract. Its not going to happen.

I disagree, i think a youngish all star could be had, history has shown that is possible.
Your point about #5 for Lowry/picks vs. Pau is valid. Although i think you are downplaying the Lowry package. I guess it would depend on how much of an impact Pau could make in these next couple years. No doubt he would have a big impact next year.

 

[rainmaker]

Vlade was a Laker for awhile, what if we never signed him? I'll trade with anyone given we suck and are in no position to turn away a good deal. Now, we can dispute whether Pau would be good for us, but him being a Laker plays no part for me. It's not like he traded himself from Mem to LA.

I know some think Pau's too expensive. Know what I think is/was too expensive? Paying Salmons/Cisco/Donte/Outlaw 19M last year to contribute nothing. Pau would give us much more value for our money.

Some say he's lost it. To them I say, look at the schmuck they brought in for a coach who had no clue how to use Pau, let Bynum take over post duties and for the most part had Pau play facilitator(when Kobe did pass) from 15-18ft away. Anyone who watched LA last year knows Brown didn't use him correctly. On top of that he was traded in dec, only to have Stern nix the deal. It's not easy to then go out and give 100% for FO who just traded you. Kev/Scola also had down years in part because they were traded, then brought back.

Then we get into fit. He's an All Star. A very, very good defender although not a shot blocker. Very good passer. Good on the glass. Nice jumper to keep his defender honest and prevent his man from leaving and doubling Cuz or helping on an attacking Reke. He's won two rings. Would command respect the minute he landed in Sac. Cuz has singled Pau and Duncan out as the two bigs he respects most in the league. I see the complimenting each other very well. Key is we'd need defensive minded players at SF and PG for it to work.

You know who else seemed over the hill when we signed him? Vlade. Know what could be a similar duo to Vlade/Webb? Pau/Cuz. Is he expensive? Yes. More expensive than paying Salmons/Cisco/Donte/Outlaw/Hayes 24M last year to not contribute a damn thing? No way. Would I do it? Don't know, but I'd consider it. I'd have to know the other options first. But I want back in the postseason, I want positive momentum, and I want Reke/Cuz seeing they're playing for a franchise willing to take a risk and spend to improve, just like Wall is witnessing in Wash, or Rubio is witnessing in Minn.

We're not even good enough to be in the conversation to consider LA a rival. The fricking Clippers have overtaken us and are more a rival at this point. Let that sink in.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

I disagree, i think a youngish all star could be had, history has shown that is possible.
Your point about #5 for Lowry/picks vs. Pau is valid. Although i think you are downplaying the Lowry package. I guess it would depend on how much of an impact Pau could make in these next couple years. No doubt he would have an big impact next year.

Which young all star has been traded recently and for what? I can't think of any where the other team didn't have to give up an arm and a leg.

Regarding Lowry, I think we, along with other teams are overrating his impact. He is a good decent player. Nothing else. I can easily see our offense still being a mess with Lowry at the point. I understand a lot of people want to have a variety of young good players instead of spending a lot of money on 1. But if history tells us anything, you need stars to win in the NBA. Championship teams like the Pistons back in 04? are very rare.

 

[Hoovtrain]

Which young all star has been traded recently and for what? I can't think of any where the other team didn't have to give up an arm and a leg.

Regarding Lowry, I think we, along with other teams are overrating his impact. He is a good decent player. Nothing else. I can easily see our offense still being a mess with Lowry at the point. I understand a lot of people want to have a variety of young good players instead of spending a lot of money on 1. But if history tells us anything, you need stars to win in the NBA. Championship teams like the Pistons back in 04? are very rare.

I said history has shown that, you are more than welcome to go look up some. Never said it happens all the time, but it has happened. Gasol is one off the top of my head.
We are not talking about a straight up #5 for Lowry. We are talking about possibly a couple good draft picks along with young talent..and Lowry. That makes a huge difference. I would not give up #5 for Lowry. I would give up #5 for Lowry,#12 and #16/DM.

 

[Tetsujin]

Okay, if you could just set aside the LA thing for a minute, would you do it? Imagine Pau played for Memphis again.

Old guy on the downward slope of his career who is no longer mobile enough to really defend 4s and some 5s. His defensive numbers are inflated a bit by the fact that he gets to clean up for Bynum. For the cost and the headache, I don't necessarily think its worth it. Especially if the player the Lakers pick with the #5 winds up being a star.

 

[hrdboild]

What guarantees that we will be a playoff team and a contender 3-4 years from now by drafting another young prospect at 5? For all we know, if the Maloofs let Tyreke leave because they don't want to match a max offer. Where would we be at?

I think a lot of people wrote off Pau because they just look at how his stats dipped this year. Keep in mind he became the odd man out because many of his touches went to Bynum and kobe refused to share any of "his" possessions because he wants to remain the top dog instead of team first. Pau voiced a few times saying there is "a certain level of selfishness on this team". In a "down" year, Pau averaged 17.4 pts, 10.4 rebs.

If Pau gets the amount of shots an all star is suppose to get, he will easily average around 20 & 10 again while helping run the offense very smoothly as he is a very willing and capable passer.

I will add that he is one of the best team first stars out there.

I live in LA so I'm at the center of the Laker storm whether I like it or not and most of the Lakers fans I know have been grumbling about Pau's up and down effort in big games almost since they acquired him. Certainly the amount of shots that went to Andrew Bynum this year impacted Gasol's overall production, but that's partially why they traded away Lamar Odom. He's not a guy I fully trust to show up when it counts. Three years ago, yes. But look at his stats in the playoffs the last two years and tell me there's not some cause for concern. (link)

Aside from that, I don't know how well he fits alongside Cousins. DMC looks like he could be a 20 point scorer for us as soon as next year. Gasol is a decent defender and his impact is limited if the ball doesn't go through his hands on offense where his passing skills can be put to good use. Again you're talking about adding another player in the starting lineup who's most effective when they get a lot of touches and we're already overloaded with those types of players as it is.

If we let Tyreke go, it's a moot point. I don't know what's going to happen with him, but assuming we're sensible enough to retain one of our top 2 players I don't think Pau Gasol should be looked at as a long-term solution for us. Even with last years hiccup, we're in position to grab someone special in the draft again and push ourselves closer to the playoffs. You have to know what you're doing to find talent in the draft, but trading a top 5 pick this year for someone like Pau Gasol is a Kobe for Divac type of trade. Rip Hamilton for Jerry Stackhouse. Jermaine O'Neal for Dale Davis. Mitch Richmond for Chris Webber. Only we'd be on the wrong end watching someone else compete for a championship after our former All-Star is long since gone. What did all these guys have in common? Solid player, nice career, not a Hall-of-Famer, his best years are probably behind him.

...

And every time Salmons comes up as a reason to make a trade I throw up in my mouth a little bit. We don't need to pawn him off on somebody as part of a larger deal. Just amnesty him! That's the whole point of the amnesty rule -- shed a bothersome contract once without having to take on more dead weight to do it. Only an insufferable penny-pincher would let a few million dollars of already sunk cost prevent them from making a roster move which is beneficial to the future of the team.

 

[KingsFanSince85]

As I said in another thread, unless you're in a position where a player like Gasol puts you over the top, it makes no sense to trade a top lottery pick for him. Best case, Gasol makes this team a 7th or 8th seed .. maybe. Why mortgage the future for a shot at a first round exit at the hands of the Thunder or Spurs the next 2-3 seasons?

I'd rather take my chances drafting a young player and hope he develops into a star. Not only that, Gasol seemed disinterested in the playoffs against Dallas 2 seasons ago. How disinterested do you think he'd be here playing for the 8th seed?

No thanks.

 

[Tetsujin]

Vlade was a Laker for awhile, what if we never signed him? I'll trade with anyone given we suck and are in no position to turn away a good deal. Now, we can dispute whether Pau would be good for us, but him being a Laker plays no part for me. It's not like he traded himself from Mem to LA.

I know some think Pau's too expensive. Know what I think is/was too expensive? Paying Salmons/Cisco/Donte/Outlaw 19M last year to contribute nothing. Pau would give us much more value for our money.

Some say he's lost it. To them I say, look at the schmuck they brought in for a coach who had no clue how to use Pau, let Bynum take over post duties and for the most part had Pau play facilitator(when Kobe did pass) from 15-18ft away. Anyone who watched LA last year knows Brown didn't use him correctly. On top of that he was traded in dec, only to have Stern nix the deal. It's not easy to then go out and give 100% for FO who just traded you. Kev/Scola also had down years in part because they were traded, then brought back.

Then we get into fit. He's an All Star. A very, very good defender although not a shot blocker. Very good passer. Good on the glass. Nice jumper to keep his defender honest and prevent his man from leaving and doubling Cuz or helping on an attacking Reke. He's won two rings. Would command respect the minute he landed in Sac. Cuz has singled Pau and Duncan out as the two bigs he respects most in the league. I see the complimenting each other very well. Key is we'd need defensive minded players at SF and PG for it to work.

You know who else seemed over the hill when we signed him? Vlade. Know what could be a similar duo to Vlade/Webb? Pau/Cuz. Is he expensive? Yes. More expensive than paying Salmons/Cisco/Donte/Outlaw/Hayes 24M last year to not contribute a damn thing? No way. Would I do it? Don't know, but I'd consider it. I'd have to know the other options first. But I want back in the postseason, I want positive momentum, and I want Reke/Cuz seeing they're playing for a franchise willing to take a risk and spend to improve, just like Wall is witnessing in Wash, or Rubio is witnessing in Minn.

We're not even good enough to be in the conversation to consider LA a rival. The fricking Clippers have overtaken us and are more a rival at this point. Let that sink in.

THe thing is that Vlade is Vlade and Gasol is a scrawny, whiny doodoo head.

 

[rainmaker]

THe thing is that Vlade is Vlade and Gasol is a scrawny, whiny doodoo head.

Ok then, guess that settles it.

 

[VF21]

Okay, if you could just set aside the LA thing for a minute, would you do it? Imagine Pau played for Memphis again.

Putting emotions aside, I would do it in a heartbeat. Pau Gasol still has fuel in the tank, and his veteran presence would solve more than one problem with our team. My only REAL worry would be that he simply would not be happy here because of the owner turmoil. If that wasn't a problem, I honestly wouldn't have an objection to Gasol. I just hate the idea of the Lakers getting a high draft pick at our expense.