kb02
All-Star
It’s apparently a crime to be reserved about Kings rookies and SL play. Those Kings SL championships certainly translated over. Donte Greene dropped 40 points in SL once and looked like Durant 2.0. We’ll know soon enough in the fall.
Keegan Murray
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
It’s apparently a crime to be reserved about Kings rookies and SL play. Those Kings SL championships certainly translated over. Donte Greene dropped 40 points in SL once and looked like Durant 2.0. We’ll know soon enough in the fall.
I’ve got no problem with Slab. Realism and pessimism are fine, and saying “nice, but let’s wait and see” is totally a valid viewpoint.
My problem is with others who say about Keegan “just Sumner League, wait and see” and go out of their way to pee on the parade, pick out every negative nit, come up with definitive negative comparisons and negative hot takes, and do it all based on limited sample size, while also declaring other players to be definitive future stars based on even Less sample, and while ignoring their shortcomings.
in short, my problem is with the “we don’t have enough info to do anything but judge Keegan negatively” crowd while also praising literally every other rookie as a future star.
kb02
All-Star
No, your issue is people aren’t praising Keegan enough. When I say dude has a similar arc to Kyle Kuzma, who won SL MVP, has operated as a starting stretch 4, and is averaging 17 pts n 6 boards for his career. That’s seen as a diss.
When I say his shooting, off the ball movement, n bbq iq on boards will translate that gets overlooked because I also say his face up game needs work.
Barring injury, I see banchero as the ROTY, because of his size, skill, and game. Not because of his SL performance.
SLAB
Hall of Famer
I mean, that one article I posted in NBA proclaimed Banchero a mixture of Giannis, KD, LeBron, Luka and Kobe so I don’t see how he couldn’t be the ROY.
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Edit; AND DeRozan and Tatum too!
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Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
If Paolo doesn't average at least 25/15/10 this season, I demand a refund.
kb02
All-Star
18 - 7 - 5 . His shooting needs work. Not quite enough burst to dominate on drives, so will need to develop more craft or finesse. Boards won't be as high, because of how he'll be played and also where he's on the court. Assists should be high, because of his role.
Don’t disagree - except that his board numbers might be low because he plays a little bit soft. It’s a possibility.
if that is your takeaway from my posts, then debating with you any further is just pointless. Have a good one.
kb02
All-Star
Yea, I agree on his play being a bit soft. Especially given his size. He's legit 6'10, 250. Though the 5 boards accounts for some of that, since he'll likely get 3 defensive boards by default alone. And because of that softness and average motor, I don't see Banchero as an elite offensive rebounder. Unlike Dyson Daniels, who shows elite awareness, toughness, and motor when going for offensive boards.
In general, I think defensive boards should be given a .50 to .75 value relative to offensive rebounds, if offensive boards are assigned a 1 rating. Obviously it's hard to find a fair value, because of where dudes are on the court, their positions, and role on the team.
Banchero probably will win ROY because Orlando will force feed him the ball on every possession like we did with Tyreke Evans. After 16 years without a playoff game, I'm beyond caring about who wins ROY. Keegan will help this team win more games playing with Fox and Sabonis than Banchero (or Ivey) would have. There's absolutely no way to confirm that but looking at how they play, I think it's self-evident. The only way this team would have been better off with Banchero (or Ivey) is if we traded Sabonis and Fox and rebuilt around another rookie and it's far from a guarantee we'd end up any better than we are now.
This is only ever about one thing... If you don't think Fox is a 25 ppg scorer (he has been the last 2 years) then everything else we do is a waste of time. If you do then we already have our first option scorer and an elite passing/rebounding big man to compliment him. You add shooters and defenders next to that core and you're a playoff team with competent leadership. Who cares about which young core looks better on paper to the network television talking heads? If we win we build credibility and that's how we're going to dig ourselves out of this hole.
This is only ever about one thing... If you don't think Fox is a 25 ppg scorer (he has been the last 2 years) then everything else we do is a waste of time. If you do then we already have our first option scorer and an elite passing/rebounding big man to compliment him. You add shooters and defenders next to that core and you're a playoff team with competent leadership. Who cares about which young core looks better on paper to the network television talking heads? If we win we build credibility and that's how we're going to dig ourselves out of this hole.
I thought/think Keegan will be great. Which won't require that he become a perennial all-star. For me it means something like: the thought of him locking down the 4-spot in Sacramento for the duration makes me - and all Kings' fans - smile. (On court contributions aside, I really *like* Keegan. I love his low-key personality, what we've seen of his family, his story - love the back'n'forth he does w/Kris. It's gonna be very easy to root for him - just as it was impossible not to LOVE Tyrese.)
If that happens - if Keegan proves himself to be the bona fide building block I think he is - I don't care if Ivey, or anyone else Monte could have drafted, becomes the next MJ.
If that happens - if Keegan proves himself to be the bona fide building block I think he is - I don't care if Ivey, or anyone else Monte could have drafted, becomes the next MJ.
Absolutely right. The two main roads to credibility are proven young talent and wins - with making the playoffs being a key indicator on the wins front. If the Kings can go into next year with a playoff appearance to their name, they'll have both - pls cap room, a strong coaching staff, and a great arena - to offer prospective free agents.
PorchSurfin
Starter
The problem is not that you, and others, are being "reserved". It's that you're more excited about other rookies, your personal picks, because you are invested in that and one thing about KB02 specifically is he hates to be wrong. And at the same time, downplaying all the positives of Murray's game and highlighting the negatives.
It's irritating because the narrative is old as dirt yet some won't let it go. If the grass is so much greener over there, why continue torturing yourselves over here?
NYKingsfan57
Prospect
What can I add about Keegan that hasn't already been said. His game has been inspected and dissected. He is an impressive young man with a very bright future. What does he need to work on? Other than the usual adjustments that all rookies need to make, Keegan needs to find ways to create space for his shot. Some of that space will be created by the attention that Fox/Sabonis will garner on the court. But Keegan should also find ways to create his own space. Some players create space with speed/athleticism. That is not Keegans path to space. Keegan should look to the lesser athletes (Luka; Harden) and see how they create space. One way is with smarts. Keegan is solid on that front. Pump fakes, jab steps, use of left hand, study film...the smarts are there for Keegan. The other way the non great athletes create space is with their dribble. On that front I have been a bit disappointed in Keegan. Considering he is ambidextrous I thought his dribble game would be more advanced than it has shown to be. Improving his handle will do wonders for his game. Such a bright future.
Rob-The-Great
Starter
So because the guy has a opinion, he needs to leave to another team? Cool story lol.
I don't think there are any Kings Fan Trolls in here, just die hard fans with different opinions.
There is litterally no more fake Kings Fans alive anymore. Those are now rebranded as warriors and Lakers fans.
Any fan that has been through what we have been through the last 16 years not only deserves to post what they want about the direction of the team, should be getting paid to do it!
Hoovtrain
All-Star
I’m pretty damn pumped about him. Admittedly don’t watch as much college basketball as I used to, but he is very impressive
kb02
All-Star
You do a ton of assuming to fit your narrative.
If you look a few posts above, I cited a number of weaknesses in Banchero's game: not enough burst on his drives, his shooting needs work, needs to add craft, has an average motor, and agreed with Midtown on his softness. Is it not impossible to be excited about a prospect, but also criticize that prospect's weaknesses?
You may choose to look at the upside as much as you want. There's a saying in trading. Amateurs look at how much they can make while pros look at how much they can lose. Projections have zero value, if it's nothing but positives. Projections with real, actionable value start from the entire area under the curve (i.e., the best case), but are than brought down by incorporating most likely case to worse case inputs. I prefer the latter strategy. It keeps me grounded and also tends to lead to greater rewards, because the majority of the population is biased towards the former strategy.
Mark Cuban agrees:
“...there is always going to be a bias towards demand trying to push the price of a stock up. That in turn creates an opportunity for short sellers who get to take advantage of that upside bias...”
Rob-The-Great
Starter
If... he get PT that we hope he does. A lot of people that can get hot and steal min on this team. Hope coach prioritizes his dev over 1 or 2 extra wins.....but kings are win chasers this year and o don't believe that will be the case.
20 to 22 mpg I'm guessing
I’m thinking more like 26-30 minutes assuming he holds his own on D, if D is shaky then more like 24 min.
Larry89
Disgruntled Kings Fan
In the universe where Mark Jackson gets hired..
AIN'T NO SUMMER BREAK HERE, GOTTA CONTRIBUTE TO THE ROTH I-R-A.
PICKING HIS SPOTS LIKE PARKING A CAR. AIN'T GONNA GET EXCITED, JOBS NOT DONE. HESITATION PULL UP, TOO EASY. TARGET PRACTICE.
HAND DOWN, MAN DOWN.
ROLL OUT OF BED, TWENTY AND TEN. FIRST NAME KEEGAN LAST NAME, MURRAY.
SIX-EIGHT AND HAS A DATE WITH THE RIM, AND THE BOTTOM OF THE NET. LOOKING SMOOTH BUT NOT LIKE PEANUT BUTTER.
SQUARE UP THREE, SWISH. AIN'T NO SMILES HERE, THAT'S A BAD MAN.
MAMA, THERE GOES THAT MAN.
AIN'T NO SUMMER BREAK HERE, GOTTA CONTRIBUTE TO THE ROTH I-R-A.
PICKING HIS SPOTS LIKE PARKING A CAR. AIN'T GONNA GET EXCITED, JOBS NOT DONE. HESITATION PULL UP, TOO EASY. TARGET PRACTICE.
HAND DOWN, MAN DOWN.
ROLL OUT OF BED, TWENTY AND TEN. FIRST NAME KEEGAN LAST NAME, MURRAY.
SIX-EIGHT AND HAS A DATE WITH THE RIM, AND THE BOTTOM OF THE NET. LOOKING SMOOTH BUT NOT LIKE PEANUT BUTTER.
SQUARE UP THREE, SWISH. AIN'T NO SMILES HERE, THAT'S A BAD MAN.
MAMA, THERE GOES THAT MAN.
PorchSurfin
Starter
Lol you're insufferable! This whole post sums up my one point, you don't like to be wrong.
You spent this whole post basically tooting your own horn and then concluded that Mark Cuban agrees with you and your philosophy.
I just can't. I'm gonna let this one be. I can't stomach another post about how you're smarter than the population.
PorchSurfin
Starter
I think to your last point, Murray wasn't asked to play that way, to use his dribble to be effective, at Iowa. So I don't think he developed that skill.
As hard of a worker and as smart of a dude as he seems to be, I would imagine we see quick growth in that area sooner rather than later.
Ozymandias
All-Star
this board is best enjoyed with a heavy dose of the ignore feature. If De'Aaron could walk on water, cure aids and cancer, end poverty, world hunger and war, a select few here would still be tunnelvision focused with complaints (and "advanced stats" to match) about his defense.
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Ozymandias
All-Star
KM was closer to 10:1 to win the ROY around the time of the draft now he's up to near 8:1
kb02
All-Star
Of course u would have that interpretation.
kb02
All-Star
I would play Jalen Williams @ +3000. Best odds/risk.
https://www.bettingpros.com/nba/odds/player-futures/rookie-of-the-year/
https://www.bettingpros.com/nba/odds/player-futures/rookie-of-the-year/
I'd be delighted to do a friendly wager on his minutes. I will be shocked - SHOCKED, I tell you, and absolutely appalled - if Keegan Murray gets only 20-22 min. I think 30 is much more likely out the gate.
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