Keegan “KEEGAN MURRAY” Murray

Padrino said:
As a college composition professor, I can tell you that it's very flat, two-dimensional writing. That piece uses a lot of words that logically flow from one to the next while saying very little of note in the most vague, non-specific way possible. It's not effective writing, in other words. At least, not as an essay, which is what the format is attempting to replicate.
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I agree, but for the basic prompt I gave, 10 paragraphs requires a bit of filler.

If I ask it to try to address your criticism, and consolidate to 5 paragraphs, and to write like a popular sports writer, we get

ChatGPT4o said:
The claim that "Keegan Murray is the best player on the Sacramento Kings" is a stretch, especially when you consider the contributions of De'Aaron Fox and Domantas Sabonis. Fox has been the heart and soul of this team. Last season, he averaged over 25 points and 6 assists per game, often delivering in clutch moments. When the Kings needed a basket, Fox was the go-to guy, consistently blowing by defenders and finishing strong. His explosive play and leadership have made him one of the league's top guards.

Domantas Sabonis brings another dimension to the Kings with his versatility. Averaging a double-double last season, Sabonis has been a force in the paint and an excellent facilitator from the post. His ability to score, rebound, and assist makes him a valuable asset. Sabonis's multiple All-Star appearances highlight his elite status and significant impact on the game, far surpassing what Murray has achieved so far.

Recognition and accolades are critical indicators of a player’s impact. Fox’s near All-Star status and Sabonis’s multiple All-Star appearances demonstrate their higher performance levels. These honors reflect their contributions to the team, which Murray has yet to match. Experience also plays a crucial role; both Fox and Sabonis have more NBA experience, translating to better decision-making and leadership, particularly in high-pressure situations.

Keegan Murray, while talented, is still developing his role within the team. He has shown potential with his smooth shooting and physical tools, but he lacks the consistency of Fox and Sabonis. Murray’s flashes of brilliance are promising, yet he hasn’t strung together enough consistent performances to be considered the team’s best player. He’s still adjusting to the NBA’s pace and learning how to be a consistent game-changer.

In summary, while Keegan Murray has the potential to become one of the Kings' best players, he’s not there yet. De'Aaron Fox’s explosive playmaking and leadership, along with Domantas Sabonis’s versatility and consistent impact, make them the true stars of the Sacramento Kings. Murray’s time may come, but for now, Fox and Sabonis are the backbone of this team.
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That's a pretty good post by the standards of Kingsfans.com. We shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we'll be able to clearly recognize LLMs. Rhetoric is now cheaper than air.
 
Insomniacal Fan said:
I agree, but for the basic prompt I gave, 10 paragraphs requires a bit of filler.

If I ask it to try to address your criticism, and consolidate to 5 paragraphs, and to write like a popular sports writer, we get



That's a pretty good post by the standards of Kingsfans.com. We shouldn't delude ourselves into thinking we'll be able to clearly recognize LLMs. Rhetoric is now cheaper than air.
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Meh. Any popular sports writer is going to compose with personality, with panache. This sample is about as flat as the previous sample. It has no strength of subject position. It reads as if a machine wrote it. Had a human sports writer composed that, my criticism would be the same: it reads as if a machine wrote it. There's no life in the prose. No bounce. No rhythm. No sense of style.

One need only look at the posts in the recent Mike Brown threads to find humanity in writing about sports. KF.com is host to quite a few very strong writers, each with distinct stylistic preferences and tics. This board remains worth visiting precisely because the posters here are full of individual, three-dimensional perspectives that amount to far more than a flat recitation of information skimmed from the shallowest of sources.

LLMs may eventually be able to better replicate what makes human writing so engaging and enlivening, but at the moment, these AIs scrape the internet for all kinds of text and determine which words should probabilistically follow each other based on common usage. This flattens the writing and renders it utterly unengaging. After all, it's the words that are unlikely to follow one another that create the kinds of collisions in prose that sparks a reader's interest. I don't always agree with @Mr. S£im Citrus, but you won't find anyone here confusing his very distinct voice with the slop ChatGPT currently generates.
 
Padrino said:
Meh. Any popular sports writer is going to compose with personality, with panache. This sample is about as flat as the previous sample. It has no strength of subject position. It reads as if a machine wrote it. Had a human sports writer composed that, my criticism would be the same: it reads as if a machine wrote it. There's no life in the prose. No bounce. No rhythm. No sense of style.

One need only look at the posts in the recent Mike Brown threads to find humanity in writing about sports. KF.com is host to quite a few very strong writers, each with distinct stylistic preferences and tics. This board remains worth visiting precisely because the posters here are full of individual, three-dimensional perspectives that amount to far more than a flat recitation of information skimmed from the shallowest of sources.

LLMs may eventually be able to better replicate what makes human writing so engaging and enlivening, but at the moment, these AIs scrape the internet for all kinds of text and determine which words should probabilistically follow each other based on common usage. This flattens the writing and renders it utterly unengaging. After all, it's the words that are unlikely to follow one another that create the kinds of collisions in prose that sparks a reader's interest. I don't always agree with @Mr. S£im Citrus, but you won't find anyone here confusing his very distinct voice with the slop ChatGPT currently generates.
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Well, I never argued that the best LLM output is better than the best human produced content. I do think it's better than the median, and even the best writers here don't hit home runs on every swing.

Nor am I saying that LLMs make human writing obsolete, (yet). I enjoy the variety of perspectives that we have here (obviously, since I've been here forever)

I want to draw attention to this because I'm pretty sure LLM assisted posts are already starting to be a thing here. Late last year I noticed some arguments that seemed to be based on "hallucinations" of facts. I worry that the volume of lazy ideas is starting to be artificially enhanced, drowning out the entertaining stuff. I wish we had better tools for sorting through the chaff
 
Interesting about this AI development issue (and LLM, whatever that is).

Recently, I had one of the new mods ask (accused) me of using AI to post a long comment. I couldn't determine if it was a compliment or an insult. After reading the above few posts, now I can infer that the question was intended to be an insult.

I do use a spell checker and occasionally a grammar checker for comma usage but that is it. I wouldn't know where to even start with an AI app. (I guess it is an app of some sort.)

Just a personal comment. Carry on with the far more relevant Keegan thread.
 
GWD said:
Interesting about this AI development issue (and LLM, whatever that is).

Recently, I had one of the new mods ask (accused) me of using AI to post a long comment. I couldn't determine if it was a compliment or an insult. After reading the above few posts, now I can infer that the question was intended to be an insult.

I do use a spell checker and occasionally a grammar checker for comma usage but that is it. I wouldn't know where to even start with an AI app. (I guess it is an app of some sort.)

Just a personal comment. Carry on with the far more relevant Keegan thread.
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Hey GWD, that was me as you know and I didn't follow up in that thread because the conversation had already moved on and it didn't feel appropriate to sidetrack it any further. But since this has grown into a deeper conversation about the merits of AI as a writing tool, good on you for pressing the issue...

I don't think I intended it as either a compliment or an insult -- I just was surprised by a lot of the word choices you made in that post and having interacted with you before on this board (mostly on the Mike Brown topic), it didn't read to me like it came from the same person I'd interacted with before. I'm not in the habit of casually insulting other posters but I will admit that I was poking fun in what I thought would be a light-hearted and somewhat topical manner. It's clear that I owe you an apology for that comment so I wanted to make it a public apology instead of a PM. I'm sorry for crossing a line. I didn't fully think through the implications of what I wrote.

As you've already inferred, I do have some strong feelings about AI assisted writing tools (sometimes referred to as Language Learning Models, LLMs). Those feelings stem from my own creative process and decades of finding my voice through writing. It's a process that I value highly, enough that the thought of the inevitable proliferation of tools which short-cut the intimidating "blank page paralysis" stage of writing (the trial by fire which unites all writers in shared misery yet nevertheless is the only path I think to genuine artistic expression) saddens me deeply. It doesn't sadden me because writers using AI tools will make more money than those who don't (they probably will but only by sheer volume of output) or that AI will lower the bar for artistic expression (it won't though it will likely make it harder for masterpieces to find an audience through all the white noise). What saddens me most of all is that artists who would have struggled for years and then achieved great things in overcoming that struggle will instead get side-tracked from reaching their true potential. That's a loss for all of humanity.
 
kingsboi said:
hopefully not, that is only going to effect his stamina and endurance carrying around all that weight especially trying to be a 2 way
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I think Keegans biggest issue is contact. The more strength/mass the more durability he'd have. Not sure how much weight he needs but if the can absorb a little more contact that will go a long way to helping him when he's getting screened off by a big. That's typically where players get blown up, getting picked on a tough screen and having to fight through. Most of them can run all night regardless of their weight.
 
SacTownKid said:
I think Keegans biggest issue is contact. The more strength/mass the more durability he'd have. Not sure how much weight he needs but if the can absorb a little more contact that will go a long way to helping him when he's getting screened off by a big. That's typically where players get blown up, getting picked on a tough screen and having to fight through. Most of them can run all night regardless of their weight.
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increased VO2 output can in turn increase power and speed capacity when training but the muscle mass will come because his body type has a lot of room for growth to fill out, if he gets his nutrition right and works hard not just on the basketball court but outside it too
 
Jdbraver137 said:
he really doesn’t look that much bigger, I’m not too worried. He also has to be able to sustain contact from 4s and not get injured. I think he may get more minutes at 4, depending on who our other forward is next year.
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I think of the advantage that Klay Thompson had playing the 2, in a similar way to Murray playing the 3. Both can play the next position up, but then they don't have the same physical advantage
 
I'm really excited for Keegan and this team going forward. That leap everyone is waiting for, is absolutely coming IMO, and i think it's going to be quite glorious on both ends. He won't say it, but he clearly played through quite a few injuries last season beginning with his back. When his rookie year stroke returns, this team will be winning 50 + games
 
NewArena said:
I'm really excited for Keegan and this team going forward. That leap everyone is waiting for, is absolutely coming IMO, and i think it's going to be quite glorious on both ends. He won't say it, but he clearly played through quite a few injuries last season beginning with his back. When his rookie year stroke returns, this team will be winning 50 + games
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I'm a believer in 20ppg Keegan, and once he's 20ppg Keegan I'll be a believer in 25ppg Keegan.

So I guess I'm a believer in 25ppg Keegan.
 
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