Glenn, here is his quote. I'm not making it up or blowing it up. It's his philosophy and that's ok. I don't agree with it. What I've said in this post is that Justin will not develop any type of offensive game. I never said that there is not a place for a guy like Juston.
Justin Williams
- Thread starter netseee
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Glenn, here is his quote. I'm not making it up or blowing it up. It's his philosophy and that's ok. I don't agree with it. What I've said in this post is that Justin will not develop any type of offensive game. I never said that there is not a place for a guy like Juston.
But shooting is overrated. I never said it wasn't important, but it is overrated; I mean, seriously, who's looking at Jason Kidd's career forty percent career shooting average and thinking, "Nah, this guy can't help my team?" Hell, Kidd is shooting thirty-seven percent from the field this season, and he's no worse than the fourth-best point guard in the entire league (and, depending on your point of view, may be the best or second-best). What really matters is, are you a winner, can you help your team? The object of the game is to have more points than the other team when time runs out, not to have a better jump shot.
And, like I said, in a big man, doubly so; especially in a roleplaying big man coming off the bench. Williams doesn't have to learn how to pass; it would be great if he did, but he doesn't have to. Why? Because he's never going to really be in a position to have to pass. When he gets the ball, he's going to be expected to finish at the rim; the only other time he should have the ball on offense is for a tip-in. I mean, even if he's ever on the court with the game on the line, he's not going to have the ball in his hands, so it's not like he needs to know how to pass out of a double-team, or anything. He doesn't even have to know how to think for himself on offense; all he has to know how to do is stand where the coach and/or point guard tells him to stand to set that pick, then move down underneath the basket to get the lob/tip-in, and be able to have a ball thrown in his general direction without it whizzing through his hands, or bouncing off his head.
Like I said before, we need to develop young talent, and that's not limited to stars; it would help if we also develop young roleplayers so that, when the time comes to make a run, we don't have to pay through the nose to get those like we did when made our run five years ago. Why pay six million dollars for a Mikki Moore-level player, when we can grow one at a quarter the price?
And, like I said, in a big man, doubly so; especially in a roleplaying big man coming off the bench. Williams doesn't have to learn how to pass; it would be great if he did, but he doesn't have to. Why? Because he's never going to really be in a position to have to pass. When he gets the ball, he's going to be expected to finish at the rim; the only other time he should have the ball on offense is for a tip-in. I mean, even if he's ever on the court with the game on the line, he's not going to have the ball in his hands, so it's not like he needs to know how to pass out of a double-team, or anything. He doesn't even have to know how to think for himself on offense; all he has to know how to do is stand where the coach and/or point guard tells him to stand to set that pick, then move down underneath the basket to get the lob/tip-in, and be able to have a ball thrown in his general direction without it whizzing through his hands, or bouncing off his head.
Like I said before, we need to develop young talent, and that's not limited to stars; it would help if we also develop young roleplayers so that, when the time comes to make a run, we don't have to pay through the nose to get those like we did when made our run five years ago. Why pay six million dollars for a Mikki Moore-level player, when we can grow one at a quarter the price?
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Entity
Hall of Famer
Exactly right Slim. Justin could be a carbon copy of Mikki on offense and also provide with more rebounds and shot blocks. Mikki is filling the offensive role nicely we just need those 2 extra things justin brings. By the way you will find me much more agreeable if you start thinking like me. 
TaxMan
Starter
Case in point is Andris Biedrins of the Warriors. I have never seen an uglier free throw, but the guy is extremely valuable if you watch him every day. Doesn't take a shot he can't make (a CAREER 60% shooter from the field), but can still easily get you 10-15 points a game just off of pick and roll dunks and tip-ins. Consistent rebounder, and pretty good shot blocker. There is most certainly a place for a player like Justin Wiliams, and he doesn't need to have a nice free throw or jump shot. He only needs to know his role, know what he can and can't do, and stay within those confines.
I understand what your saying, and we have different philosophies. Kidd is a special talent. Most of the players in the NBA are not in the Kidd mold. Would I want a Jason Kidd on my team? Of course, who wouldn't. I suppose I look at guys like Dahntay Jones, who are borderline NBA players because they can't hit an outside shot consistently. Another example, would be Matt Barnes. Bounces around the league and finally sticks because he can knock down a 3 with some consistency. If Beno Udrih can't knock down shots, how long before he's replaced....because he doesn't play defense, distribute or resemble anything like a Jason Kidd. For me, the average NBA player needs to be able to shoot the ball or he's a liability. If Bruce Bowen can't knock down the 3 from the side, that guy doesn't get as much PT as he does.
As far as the big men, I understand that we want them to play defense and rebound first and foremost but I really would like to see them be able to shoot the ball. I think its easier to find a big man like a Justin Williams than a big man like a Brad Miller who has the ability to shoot and pass and rebound (granted not at a great rate) and hopefully play some defense, which he's shown a little bit of this year.
Take the Ben Wallace example, thrown out there earlier.....he needed the other 4 players around him in Detroit. Those guys' offensive skills allowed him to do what he does best and made that a great team. Without the shooters, you get Chicago and Wallace now, although it appears his skills are declining.
To get back on track, I don't believe Justin will develop any semblance of an offensive game. Can he turn into a Reggie Evans? Yeah, I can see that. Can he turn into a Wallace or Mutombo? I have my doubts about that. Can we use the guy? Yep, it sure seems like it but I'm not ready to turn 30 minutes / game over to the kid.
Glenn
Hall of Famer
Biedrins might be the perfect example. He is a 10-10 guy shooting 65.5% from the field this year and his 60% free throw percentage this year (48% career) is meaningless as he shoots only 2 free throws a game. Somehow the team avoids his major liability at the free throw line and I presume it's because they run no plays for him.
The major difference is that Biedrins seems to have a decent grasp of the game but there's no saying Justin can't attain more of a grasp. He needs to play or we'll never know.
I think a coach has an obligation to try to make the playoffs but now that it is getting mathematically remote, we probably have seen the last of KT and more of Justin and Spencer.
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Addendum: Biedrins plays 27 minutes per game. By the time Mikki's contract is up, Justin should be a reliable sub. We just need a starter because rebuilding the bench is the easy part.
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I think the point is that Ben Wallace and his rebounding completed the team. The other 4 needed HIM to make a great team. I know it's nitpicking, but it helps to make a stronger argument for his place as a role player.
Entity
Hall of Famer
good job dude12 you argued yourself into proving our point for us. That is exactly what we have been saying. last I checked the kings had the shooters. Its the rebounding shotblocker hustle pf that we need. Justin Williams fits that bill perfectly. If he can become more comfortable in his role on offense he could be a perfect fit. Even if its not him somebody with the same traits is what we need.
Uh...ok...I think my 2 points were that Justin Williams won't develop offensive skills and that I value shooting. Can you tell me where in this post that I said that Justin Williams has no role on this team? Now I could be wrong on the first point given some time, but I'll stand by my opinion. And on my 2nd point, I re-checked with myself.....yeah, I value guys who can shoot the ball. That I'm not wrong on because its my opinion. My opinion has not changed on Justin as of right now....he's a 10-15 minute guy until he plays better defense. Your right he can rebound and block some shots. I'd like to see the guy play better defense. He's not close to being Ben Wallace.
J
jdbraver
Guest
Is Justin Overated here?
Justin is not a long term solution to the Kings PF needs. Justin is fine as a backup and maybe as a starter on this rebuilding team. While a pf may not need to be a good shooter, he must atleast be able to back people down and Justin is just too slight to do that. I just think there are many kings fans that hold justin in high regards when he hasn't been given time evaluate his talents or lack thereof.
Justin is not a long term solution to the Kings PF needs. Justin is fine as a backup and maybe as a starter on this rebuilding team. While a pf may not need to be a good shooter, he must atleast be able to back people down and Justin is just too slight to do that. I just think there are many kings fans that hold justin in high regards when he hasn't been given time evaluate his talents or lack thereof.
Kingzrool
Starter
All anyone is saying is that he can rebound, block shots and hustle. Is that over rating? I do not think so.
Justin Williams has very limited, undeveloped skills. These limited skills just happen to be what the Kings have been lacking for some time now. Kings will not contend for anything without these skills. As I said before JW can be a part of the future of this team. Starter or back-up. Does not matter. He is the Kings to develope and have for cheap. Let us see what he has got.
To me, Justin looks lost out there. Maybe he'll develop into a decent player off the bench but imo, if the Kings are going anywhere, they'll need a star quality player at his position.
So while I hope to see Justin get minutes , elevate his game and be a great addition to the Kings, I'm hoping GP can find a way to bring in somebody better.... Much better.
So while I hope to see Justin get minutes , elevate his game and be a great addition to the Kings, I'm hoping GP can find a way to bring in somebody better.... Much better.
Hey, congrats to Justin for leading the NBA in rebounds per 48 again (he also did that for a fair amount of last year). Of those who have played in at least 10 games, Justin's #1 in offensive rebounds/48, #1 in defensive rebounds/48, #1 in total rebounds/48, and #1 in FG% (.700) (another repeat from last year).
Yes, I know, he's also 395th in FT percentage. Nobody's perfect.
Yes, I know, he's also 395th in FT percentage. Nobody's perfect.
Gary
All-Star
Exactly right Slim. Justin could be a carbon copy of Mikki on offense and also provide with more rebounds and shot blocks. Mikki is filling the offensive role nicely we just need those 2 extra things justin brings. By the way you will find me much more agreeable if you start thinking like me.
Defensively though JW, is no Mikki.. Not yet at least.
Entity
Hall of Famer
Did you see how many points Dwightt Howard scored while Justin was one him? Zero. I know he was getting double team help but, so was Brad and Mikki and he scored on them at will.
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