It's hard to be a Kings fan... (split)

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#31
I also find myself souring on Joerger.

He's a good coach, would have been great for Cuz (we never really had a chance to get rolling with Joerger/Cuz), but the fit on a rebuilding team seems iffy.

Then again, as Blob mentioned above, maybe the kids on this team aren't great prospects and we shouldn't blame Joerger for the FO's draft whiffs.

Always fun being a Kings fan!
Have a donut. It's gonna be okay. :)
 
#33
I also find myself souring on Joerger.

He's a good coach, would have been great for Cuz (we never really had a chance to get rolling with Joerger/Cuz), but the fit on a rebuilding team seems iffy.

Then again, as Blob mentioned above, maybe the kids on this team aren't great prospects and we shouldn't blame Joerger for the FO's draft whiffs.

Always fun being a Kings fan!
The problem with the Kings, whether it be Joerger's fault or not, is that none of our young guys have improved under him. Whether that be our rookies, second year players, or 3rd year players. No one has looked like they've made strides. Of course it could be because none of them are ready, but isn't it worth it to at least find out? I know we all agree that Skal is too raw, but aren't any of you curious with what he could do with 35 minutes? Same with Malachi. He showed some real positive flashes last year. At the very least he should get one or two high minute games to figure out if it was just a fluke or not instead of being relegated to garbage time and DNP-CD. Who cares if they flop or get scored on every possession? It's not like we are winning significantly with the vets on the floor. The fact that he seems so unwilling to give anyone a chance is concerning. I have to think that a team full of young guys, most of which are first round picks, would at least get chances elsewhere.
 
#34
The organization is in a bad state

Vlade never had the credentials to be appointed to his job, and that leads into ownership. But either way, I don’t have confidence in the organizations brain trust to make forward thinking moves (Okafor etc) or systematic strategies (signing the vets) that I agree with

The organizations young talent hasn’t produced. Skal has been nothing this season. Fox has been not a factor. Jackson hasn’t produced. WCS is now a ceiling role bench guy. The youth has not shown out

So now we are watching random vets with youth not producing, it’s a bottom 5 situation
 
#35
Are people really writing off our rookies?
We haven't even given them a full season yet & people are complaining about them not growing.

I'm sorry but it takes time for them to grow, change, & mature into better players.
Not everyone is Lebron James. Even Kobe wasn't Kobe in his first year.

I've actually seen some growth. The 2nd unit actually plays together most of the time. Something that wasn't there at the beginning of the year (and it definitely wasn't there in seasons past). Yes, Fox needs to grow, Skal needs to grow, Justin Jackson needs to grow, etc but that takes time. My complaint with Coach is that I'd like to see the young guys play more & given more time. I'd like to see our first unit - a unit that has 2 veterans - pass, cut & play together instead of seeing iso ball.

Why don't we give the young guys some time to learn & grow together.

But I do miss Demarcus & I hated how we traded him, it was totally unprofessional. We should have sat down with him & been honest instead of the way it was handled. I do think (and hope) that we learned from that, I would hate to see that happening again.
 
#36
Are people really writing off our rookies?
We haven't even given them a full season yet & people are complaining about them not growing.

I'm sorry but it takes time for them to grow, change, & mature into better players.
Not everyone is Lebron James. Even Kobe wasn't Kobe in his first year.

I've actually seen some growth. The 2nd unit actually plays together most of the time. Something that wasn't there at the beginning of the year (and it definitely wasn't there in seasons past). Yes, Fox needs to grow, Skal needs to grow, Justin Jackson needs to grow, etc but that takes time. My complaint with Coach is that I'd like to see the young guys play more & given more time. I'd like to see our first unit - a unit that has 2 veterans - pass, cut & play together instead of seeing iso ball.

Why don't we give the young guys some time to learn & grow together.

But I do miss Demarcus & I hated how we traded him, it was totally unprofessional. We should have sat down with him & been honest instead of the way it was handled. I do think (and hope) that we learned from that, I would hate to see that happening again.
A lot aren’t writing off the young players, but giving the outlook as it stands now. As it stands now, IMO the youth are not giving confidence to being a happy fan of the team. It’s unfortunate because the fanbase has been through a lot, and deserves it
 
#37
I also find myself souring on Joerger.

He's a good coach, would have been great for Cuz (we never really had a chance to get rolling with Joerger/Cuz), but the fit on a rebuilding team seems iffy.

Then again, as Blob mentioned above, maybe the kids on this team aren't great prospects and we shouldn't blame Joerger for the FO's draft whiffs.

Always fun being a Kings fan!
I've come around on Joerger and the rebuild. The way he's been relying on Z-Bo at the expense of Fox's development is concerning.
 
#38
Giles is probably a very good player, but he has had some serious injuries. Bill Walton and Greg Odin come to mind. Some humans are not made for the constant pounding of the NBA.

Rookies take time to learn to play in this league. Especially if they had short college careers.
 
#39
Giles is probably a very good player, but he has had some serious injuries. Bill Walton and Greg Odin come to mind. Some humans are not made for the constant pounding of the NBA.

Rookies take time to learn to play in this league. Especially if they had short college careers.
Both of Giles' injuries were contact injuries (not the case with Odin and Walton). His injuries are similar to those of Danny Manning and Amare Stoudlemire. Both played 15 seasons in the NBA.
 
#40
I've had a realization, and I almost don't even want to admit it. I've been holding off on posting this for a few days, but it's true so here goes. Don't throw too many rotten tomatoes at me.... I still harbor a seed of resentment against the team because of the DMC trade. & I'll always hold it against and never truly like Buddy Hield because of it, even though I know it isn't at all his fault and it's completely irrational. Then with the majority of the other young guys fizzling (if not fizzling, certainly not showing any superstar flashes) the game's just aren't fun to watch right now. I don't care about ZBo or Hill leading the team to a bad win here and there against a terrible Phoenix team without their only good player.

I'm still a Kings fan, I'm not going to go root for another team (Pelicans certainly have my interest though), but as I said in the game thread.... My team/fan relationship is going through a bit of a rough patch.
I had the same thing happen t me in my 9er fandom which took a nose dive after it surfaced they wanted to trade Harbaugh then cut ties with him. Barely watched a game since then. Slowly paying attention again. Like the new coach and GM.

Havent lost interest in the kings though. Think i just enjoy watching basketball a lot more these days compared to football.
 
#41
The organization is in a bad state

Vlade never had the credentials to be appointed to his job, and that leads into ownership. But either way, I don’t have confidence in the organizations brain trust to make forward thinking moves (Okafor etc) or systematic strategies (signing the vets) that I agree with

The organizations young talent hasn’t produced. Skal has been nothing this season. Fox has been not a factor. Jackson hasn’t produced. WCS is now a ceiling role bench guy. The youth has not shown out

So now we are watching random vets with youth not producing, it’s a bottom 5 situation
Somewhere in this thread it was mentioned Willie played well yesterday. Not really.

12-6-4-2 in 33 minutes was an improvement over his putrid game vs KAT but we needed more. We needed 18-12 or more.

The Raptors were switching Lowry and DeRozan onto him in the post and Willie cannot make the defender pay.

I have said it all along. You cannot run offense through Willie. Not creative enough. Not intuitive enough. Not good enough.

Willie has a mismatch on the high post or low post and things are slow to unfold and they don't unfold at all.

The guy is a finisher with spot shots and lobs. He's not a creator.

His offensive limitations would be fine if he was a defensive presence a la Rudy Gobert and DeAndre Jordan and cleaned the glass. But he's not.

Offensive boards are there for the taking with Willie on the floor. And when is the last time Willie took an offensive charge?

Why should fans invest emotionally in a player like Willie when he is not investing his mind, body and soul in being an impact player?

With Z-Bo out we needed at least 25 points between Skal and Willie. We got 12.

Willie throws these interior passes in traffic that are hit and miss. The team as a whole throws a lot of shuffle passes to Koufos so he can squirt that ugly flip shot up there.

When your offense is resigned to Koufos flip shots you know it is going to be a struggle!

You know you are low octane offense!

Now here is the sad thing: Compared to Skal Willie has been an indomitable force!

When the season started I said we needed 2 of the 3 starting front court positions capably manned to shock and awe and win 40 games with the strength of the team being the backcourt.

Skal, Willie and Jackson were the prime candidates to assume these spots by the midseason. Well, this collective hope has been a colossal bust.

I have very little faith and confidence in a GM who would value Justin Jackson over AG Anunoby. Jackson was NOT even on my radar pre-draft. Skinny kid, unassuming, average athlete.

I like players who can be positive contributors when their shot is not going in. Anunoby was as comfortable yesterday guarding Willie as he was switching out onto a guard.

Anunoby is a rare breed with extraordinary length and lateral mobility and power to his game in a league in which this type of player is extremely scarce and valuable. Swing and miss!

If the Kings were comfortable taking Giles with his ACL injury why not AG?

Vlade better hope Harry Giles is the next Chris Webber or he is going to be out of a job within 12-18 months.
 
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#42
The problem with the Kings, whether it be Joerger's fault or not, is that none of our young guys have improved under him. Whether that be our rookies, second year players, or 3rd year players. No one has looked like they've made strides. Of course it could be because none of them are ready, but isn't it worth it to at least find out? I know we all agree that Skal is too raw, but aren't any of you curious with what he could do with 35 minutes? Same with Malachi. He showed some real positive flashes last year. At the very least he should get one or two high minute games to figure out if it was just a fluke or not instead of being relegated to garbage time and DNP-CD. Who cares if they flop or get scored on every possession? It's not like we are winning significantly with the vets on the floor. The fact that he seems so unwilling to give anyone a chance is concerning. I have to think that a team full of young guys, most of which are first round picks, would at least get chances elsewhere.
I think it’s hard to judge on the 2016 draft class. If you look at the stats of that class it might go down as one of the weakest of all time after the first 3 picks. When you look at Papa, Malachi and Skal yeah they haven’t really blown peoples doors off but no one else has either.
 
#43
Welcome back Padrino.

I guess I'm going to be that guy but it's how I feel. Dealing with the last decade would be so much easier if we didn't have our should-have-been great story ripped from us in 2002. The Lakers had two of the all-time greats and we actually managed to be the better team after years of trying. Not only does having what would have been one of the great triumphs in NBA history taken from us make the current state of affairs harder to put up with, but the last ten years makes 2002 even more bitter.

Also I still miss my man crush, DeMarcus Cousins.
This :) x Infinity.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
Contributor
#44
It's hard to be a Kings fan. I think anyone who has been a fan for more than a couple of seasons gets the idea - you have to be in it because it comes from deep within. You cannot be a casual fan, not with everything that's gone on over the years since 2002. I think there are those of us who were fans BEFORE the good years and there are those who came during those years or after. We view our fandom somewhat differently, I believe.

There are a lot of things to be hopeful about in my mind. We did the impossible in saving the team in the first place, so the difficult shouldn't be out of reach. My only real objection to some of the newer arrivals on our fanboat is that they don't seem to have or understand patience. And honestly I don't think it's their fault. We live in an instant gratification world now and it's getting worse every day. Something breaks? Throw it away and get a new one. Don't bother to try and fix it. I think that's the POV of a number of fans. They don't see the potential because if it doesn't work right away it needs to be replaced.

I was hoping this thread would be more of an AA meeting, where people would share why they're Kings fans and what keeps them coming back. The other stuff, like complains of Vlade or dissecting the team's woes are being discussed in a number of different threads. I'm gonna try an experiment and see what happens. :)
 
#45
A lot aren’t writing off the young players, but giving the outlook as it stands now. As it stands now, IMO the youth are not giving confidence to being a happy fan of the team. It’s unfortunate because the fanbase has been through a lot, and deserves it
I agree, we deserve to finally have a good team after all these years.
What would you like to see from them to give you confidence?
 
#46
I was hoping this thread would be more of an AA meeting, where people would share why they're Kings fans and what keeps them coming back. The other stuff, like complains of Vlade or dissecting the team's woes are being discussed in a number of different threads. I'm gonna try an experiment and see what happens. :)
You like to herd cats. eh?
 
#47
It's hard to be a Kings fan. I think anyone who has been a fan for more than a couple of seasons gets the idea - you have to be in it because it comes from deep within. You cannot be a casual fan, not with everything that's gone on over the years since 2002. I think there are those of us who were fans BEFORE the good years and there are those who came during those years or after. We view our fandom somewhat differently, I believe.

There are a lot of things to be hopeful about in my mind. We did the impossible in saving the team in the first place, so the difficult shouldn't be out of reach. My only real objection to some of the newer arrivals on our fanboat is that they don't seem to have or understand patience. And honestly I don't think it's their fault. We live in an instant gratification world now and it's getting worse every day. Something breaks? Throw it away and get a new one. Don't bother to try and fix it. I think that's the POV of a number of fans. They don't see the potential because if it doesn't work right away it needs to be replaced.

I was hoping this thread would be more of an AA meeting, where people would share why they're Kings fans and what keeps them coming back. The other stuff, like complains of Vlade or dissecting the team's woes are being discussed in a number of different threads. I'm gonna try an experiment and see what happens. :)
I love your experiment. :)
 
#48
I think it’s hard to judge on the 2016 draft class. If you look at the stats of that class it might go down as one of the weakest of all time after the first 3 picks. When you look at Papa, Malachi and Skal yeah they haven’t really blown peoples doors off but no one else has either.
I don't care how bad a draft is. If you have 4 first rounders in a draft and not one of them looks better year-over-year you need to look at the coaching staff. Malachi looked solid before he went down to injury and Skal ended the year ranked as a top 10 rookie despite not playing until April. Both of these guys should've been given the opportunity to improve this year, but they've both been relegated to fringe bench players on the cusp of being out of the rotation entirely.
 
#49
I don't care how bad a draft is. If you have 4 first rounders in a draft and not one of them looks better year-over-year you need to look at the coaching staff. Malachi looked solid before he went down to injury and Skal ended the year ranked as a top 10 rookie despite not playing until April. Both of these guys should've been given the opportunity to improve this year, but they've both been relegated to fringe bench players on the cusp of being out of the rotation entirely.
Great points. As I've posted elsewhere, I've come around on Joerger and no longer feel that he's doing a great job developing our youngsters. I'm not wanting to get rid of him, as the Kings coaching carosel must stop. But he needs help so he won't keep playing his favored vets at the expense of the young guys. But I think there are ways to accomplish this without firing or publically embarrassing the coach. Trade 1-2 of the vets, for example, for future assets. Once he accepts that the 8th seed is not possible (or desirable), I believe he will more willingly play the youngsters. And then peoploe will suggest that this was all part of Joerger's plan. But this year I won't be buying it. He has an affliction and needs an intervention.
 
#50
All of the young guys have had moments. If you are going to blame the coaching staff for young players inconsistency, then that would apply to every coach in the NBA. Guys are improving incrementally. WCS has shown more and more every year. He's the most experienced of the young guys and he is the most consistent young guy....still has off games but is improved.
 
#51
The organization is in a bad state

Vlade never had the credentials to be appointed to his job, and that leads into ownership. But either way, I don’t have confidence in the organizations brain trust to make forward thinking moves (Okafor etc) or systematic strategies (signing the vets) that I agree with

The organizations young talent hasn’t produced. Skal has been nothing this season. Fox has been not a factor. Jackson hasn’t produced. WCS is now a ceiling role bench guy. The youth has not shown out

So now we are watching random vets with youth not producing, it’s a bottom 5 situation

add me to that list. I don't know why Vikek made Vlade the highest basketball personnel for the kings. And then Vlade, within his power, is the active GM. He had 6 first round picks in the last two years and the best looking youngsters are Buddy and Mason III, which Buddy was acquired through a trade and Mason was a second round pick. I know that this team needs continuity, but i feel like this team need "smarter basketball personnel" running the show; therefore, I am conflicted to whether Joeger and Vlade stays or leaves. But I will say that I DO NOT like where this team is going and I DO NOT like how these kids are not getting consistent minutes.
 
#52
As to why Vivek hired Vlade and whether Vlade has been a good hire for Vivek (as opposed to whether Vlade is qualified and/or his performance), it was smart for Vivek to hire Vlade.

Before Vlade was hired: (1) Vivek was super unpopular; (2) most Kings fans were seriously questioning whether he is a competent owner; and (3) Kings fans were keenly a tuned into how screwed a team is with bad owner. Folks had their pitch forks out for Vivek.

So he hired someone that was SUPER popular among Kings fans. And then Vivek listened to his people and hid. The franchise kept him 100% out of sight. The narrative became Vlade had full control. Vlade would always make sure to ham handedly throw this out here, often without being asked about it. As such, nobody is talking about Vivek.

It's possible that's because the ownership style of the team has shifted radically. It's probably just as likely that things have shifted only slightly and Vivek is smartly using Vlade as the face of the origination. Either way, it's been a great move for Vivek. The seething anger toward him has abated. I'm not looking to debate the level of control because we don't know (mostly because the local media "partners" just don't report at all on this issue and are often ... shall we say ... supportive and liberal with their interpretation of the reporting by others)

But, it's been very good for Vivek. Whether it's actually good for the success of the team .... well, we'll see about that. I strongly lean no on that point.
 
#53
As to why Vivek hired Vlade and whether Vlade has been a good hire for Vivek (as opposed to whether Vlade is qualified and/or his performance), it was smart for Vivek to hire Vlade.

Before Vlade was hired: (1) Vivek was super unpopular; (2) most Kings fans were seriously questioning whether he is a competent owner; and (3) Kings fans were keenly a tuned into how screwed a team is with bad owner. Folks had their pitch forks out for Vivek.

So he hired someone that was SUPER popular among Kings fans. And then Vivek listened to his people and hid. The franchise kept him 100% out of sight. The narrative became Vlade had full control. Vlade would always make sure to ham handedly throw this out here, often without being asked about it. As such, nobody is talking about Vivek.

It's possible that's because the ownership style of the team has shifted radically. It's probably just as likely that things have shifted only slightly and Vivek is smartly using Vlade as the face of the origination. Either way, it's been a great move for Vivek. The seething anger toward him has abated. I'm not looking to debate the level of control because we don't know (mostly because the local media "partners" just don't report at all on this issue and are often ... shall we say ... supportive and liberal with their interpretation of the reporting by others)

But, it's been very good for Vivek. Whether it's actually good for the success of the team .... well, we'll see about that. I strongly lean no on that point.
Except Vlade DOESN'T have full control or we would have traded Cousins for that "better deal". I totally agree that the Vlade hire was b/c Vivek is a pusillanimous, out-of-touch owner. Arg now I'm angry again!! I feel like Kylo Ren sometimes on this board :mad:
 
#55
How the hell is this team so bad yet still only sitting in the 5 slot for worst records?! I am sorry, but with the way the team is currently constructed, coupled with their lack of lottery picks after this year, they cannot afford to fall out of the top 4.