Is there an MVP controversy?

6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#1
#1
Okay, these are the best stats in the West (actually the East had even better stats, but since they did not win, no MVP from the East).

1. 15 pts, 4 reb, 2 assts, 25 min(played more minutes than anyone on either team).....selected as MVP
2. 12 pts, 14 reb, 1 blk, 19 min...only player with double double on either team, and only player with more than 6 rebounds on either team.
3. 14 pts, 6 reb, 1 assts, 16 min...similar to the person who won (except 9 fewer minutes)

My question...would you have chosen player #1, #2, or #3?
 
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Yo33Fan

Guest
#3
#3
I would have gone myself with Sue Bird. She played 6 minutes less than Swoopes and had same amount of points, 1 more steal, and was 5-6 from the field. Swoopes was 6-13. But you can't go wrong with her being MVP. She has had a awesome season so far!
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#4
#4
Yo33Fan said:
I would have gone myself with Sue Bird. She played 6 minutes less than Swoopes and had same amount of points, 1 more steal, and was 5-6 from the field. Swoopes was 6-13. But you can't go wrong with her being MVP. She has had a awesome season so far!
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So Swoopes has had an awesome season. Big deal, so have others. We are talking about today's performance only. One game...today.

Rock, I deliberately did not put names on the players. I want people to take a look at the stats and tell me who they think was more valuable overall.

I have edited my original post to include minutes played.
 
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6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#5
#5
In my opinion, they chose Swoopes because she had a good game and got the most votes (again) to start the All Star Game. But, was she the most valuable player in today's win by the West?
 
Y

Yo33Fan

Guest
#6
#6
6th said:
So Swoopes has had an awesome season. Big deal, so have others. We are talking about today's performance only. One game...today.

Rock, I deliberately did not put names on the players. I want people to take a look at the stats and tell me who they think was more valuable overall.

I have edited my original post to include minutes played.
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Hey 6th,

I don't appreciate you jumping all over me and my OPINION that I posted. I came to this board because others were nasty to me and thought they knew everything about whatever sports-and now I feel yet again bad for even posting!

I never flat out said "swoopes won MVP because she has had a great season so far" now did I?? Please read the FIRST thing I posted which was I thought my girl-the best point guard in all of basketball, SUE BIRD should have been MVP. I was just adding that Sheryl was not a bad choice, considering she has had a wonderful season so far. How different is that for me to mention about her season than you posting that she won because of all the all-star votes she got? Not much, if any.

Don't be mad that Yolanda didn't get MVP because her rebounds came when the West was FAR ahead. Another reason I'm sure the voters singled her out-even I would do that. Garbage time means nothing in basketball. Taurasi's bomb near the end of the game and Leslies dunk were cool, but nothing to talk about longer than the periods they actually took.
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#7
#7
Yo33Fan, if you felt that your opinion was being "jumped on" then I apologize for giving you that idea.

My point was, and still is, that Swoopes was not (in my opinion) today's best player. Did she play well? Yes! And, she usually plays well. She is one heck of a player and deserves all the accolades she can get...except for MVP for today's game. She had 6-9 minutes more than everyone else who had similar (or better) stats. She also took a lot more shots than anyone else. Is that a bad thing? No way. But, again it makes her stats a little skewed-IMHO.

Today's MVP should be based soley on today's game and that person's value to their team. How they have played this season should not enter into the equation at all. BTW - who do you think "votes" on the MVP?

I never mentioned Taurasi, or Leslie. They did not have that great of games. Neither one of them is player #1, #2, or #3. In fact, neither is Sue Bird. Had I listed a 4th, Sue Bird with 14 pts, 4 reb, 3 asst (in only 19 min) would have been #4.
 
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hoopsfan

hoopsfan

Starter
#8
#8
I didn't think Swoopes should have won it either. Either Yo or Katie Smith..though she's not a glamour player..she had a better game than most.
 
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Yo33Fan

Guest
#9
#9
If you all want to look at the game in REAL MVP perspective, than how about this:

You take Sheryl out of this game and what happens or who steps up for the West? Anybody?

She played excellent defense on Dawn Staley, and Becky Hammon(although Becky seemed to score more of her points when Sheryl was on the bench) and was key in transition fast breaks both starting and finishing them. Her key run down of a long pass by Lauren Jackson in the first half had me thinking "total all-out hustle award) as she grabbed the ball and passed it to a trailing Yolanda Griffith for 2 points. Although as I watched the replay of this game, it seemed as if LJ passed it to Yolanda and she figured it was too far to go after so she held up, but good thing Sheryl ran it down and got the assist-and 2 points for the west at Yolanda's expense.

On the other hand, Sue Bird was money and she had that damn mask to deal with as well. Sue didn't score her points while the West was up 15+ points like Katie Smith did. Yeah, Katie was fun to watch but by no means was she any sort of MVP. Stats can be deceiving. Having the best doesn't mean you were the best. Yolanda played well, but she could have played better. She missed easy shots and took shots without seeing open teammates underneath that most forwards/Centers would have unselfishly passed to. Again, her points and most of her rebounds came when the game was already decided at halfway through the second half.

Take away Yo, the west still wins. Take away Sheryl, they might have won, but they would have had a good shot at losing as well. Sheryl was MVP.
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#10
#10
Yo33Fan said:
If you all want to look at the game in REAL MVP perspective, than how about this:

You take Sheryl out of this game and what happens or who steps up for the West? Anybody?

She played excellent defense on Dawn Staley, and Becky Hammon(although Becky seemed to score more of her points when Sheryl was on the bench) and was key in transition fast breaks both starting and finishing them. Her key run down of a long pass by Lauren Jackson in the first half had me thinking "total all-out hustle award) as she grabbed the ball and passed it to a trailing Yolanda Griffith for 2 points. Although as I watched the replay of this game, it seemed as if LJ passed it to Yolanda and she figured it was too far to go after so she held up, but good thing Sheryl ran it down and got the assist-and 2 points for the west at Yolanda's expense.

On the other hand, Sue Bird was money and she had that damn mask to deal with as well. Sue didn't score her points while the West was up 15+ points like Katie Smith did. Yeah, Katie was fun to watch but by no means was she any sort of MVP. Stats can be deceiving. Having the best doesn't mean you were the best. Yolanda played well, but she could have played better. She missed easy shots and took shots without seeing open teammates underneath that most forwards/Centers would have unselfishly passed to. Again, her points and most of her rebounds came when the game was already decided at halfway through the second half.

Take away Yo, the west still wins. Take away Sheryl, they might have won, but they would have had a good shot at losing as well. Sheryl was MVP.
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Take away Yo's rebounding (all game) and who the heck goes after the ball. Yo could not get to the ball that Lauren threw. In fact, the pass was to Swoopes and Yo was trailing her. Twice people saved balls that were about to go out of bounds (or should I say were overthrown) and were flipped back to a trailing Yo. She made both layups on a full out run. Yo outhustled many players on many occasions. So, your insinuation that Yo was not hustling is pure crap. Maybe we weren't watching the same game.

Now, I have one more question. Did you take your username, Yo33Fan, while on this board to pretend to be a Monarchs fan? Because, on more than one occasion, you sure as hell haven't sounded like one.
 
Y

Yo33Fan

Guest
#11
#11
6th-


So to be a True Monarch's fan I have to back up Yo in every game no matter how good or crappy she plays?? I don't have any say in how my favorite player plays??

That is garbage. I never said she didn't play her "a" game-she did get rebounds and somewhat hustled a few times. But an all-star game is an all-star game. Very few players actually played their all out best-and Swoopes was one of them. Yo knows she could play better.

And Yes, I have followed her from high school through the ABL-Stingrays and Condors-then on her way to the Monarchs. I respect her game very much. I just know if I was in Sacramento and a season ticket holder that saw her sometime next week I would tell her straight up "you played well at the all-star game-too bad you didn't get the MVP" she would tell me something like "yeah, it was fun, but no MVP needed-Sheryl worked her *** off to get that-we won the game that's what is important".
 
Monty'sBiggestFan

Monty'sBiggestFan

Starter
#12
#12
It to me was another case of Yo doing what Yo does the way Yo does it and looking invisible doing it. I'm not sure how she won the "MVP" in last year's exhibition game - she pretty much did the same thing in the same way.

Yo is simply one of the more efficient players in this league and because she does not put up the dominant numbers she put up before, it's not going to be lit by the same flash and pizzazz that other players do, its not going to garner as much attention. I thought she easily could have won the MVP award in that game if you went by who did the most in the minutes they had.

I thought the pass by LJ really wasn't thrown to either of the players who had a chance to get it, it could have been intended to go to Yo, but it certainly wasn't thrown to her the way I saw it. If Yo held up, which I'm pretty sure she might have because she anticipated Swoopes catching the pass and going to the basket, then she was getting in position to rebound. If I saw Swoopes trailing I might have made that assumption too. But why be critical of her NOT catching that pass when she still had the presence of mind to finish on the play when Swoopes gave her the ball back? She must not have been taking the play fully off...if she was taking it off at all...

At this point, I think Yo does what she can to make sure her team wins, and we saw that on Saturday. I think the media voted before she got the double double and while Swoopes was leading all scorers pretty comfortably. As long as they did not invent a way for Leslie to get another MVP award, I was cool with whoever got it because I do think you could have made a case for more than a couple of West players.
 
Y

Yo33Fan

Guest
#14
#14
NWFan said:
I agree. As long as The Diva didn't get it, I was good to go.
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As much hate the sac fans have for lisa I can understand your comment. But just remember, don't hate the player, hate the game. There are a lot of players in the league that I flat out do not care for(Lauren Jackson, Tina Thompson, Nicole Powell, Sheri Sam, etc) but I respect them somewhat for getting and extending the womens game more and more each season.

As far as I'm cocerned, Lisa is not my favorite player-but she is my pick of the best womans basketball player of all time.

She dunks in a regular season game and a all-star game

She is the only person other than Wilt Chamberlain to score 100 points-and she did it in ONE HALF-NOT ONE COMPLETE GAME.

Yeah, she is a diva-she likes the hollywood style and glitz/attention-but she is intimidation like Shaq is in the NBA.

She is a leader-she is a role model-and she is a VERY BIG REASON the WNBA came about. She turned down many offers to play in the ABL to come this way.

She is nothing but world class to me.
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#15
#15
Yo33Fan said:
As much hate the sac fans have for lisa I can understand your comment. But just remember, don't hate the player, hate the game.
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No, I think most of us respect her game, but hate the player.

BTW - you are new to this board, so we are trying (sometimes unsuccessfully) to cut you some slack. However, please don't come here and preach as if we know nothing. In most cases, you are preaching to the choir. Just an FYI.
 
NothinButHoops

NothinButHoops

Starter
#17
#17
I don't hate Leslie...I admire her game. At times her arrogance gets in the way.
I just don't cheer for her or her team because we are rivals...LA & Sac...do not like each other period. I don't see that this debate is personal.
Lisa has always acknowledged her fans, that i respect about her. As for USA basketball i'd pick her for sure, she has the gold medals & Wnba Championship rings to brag about. We want what she has!
 
StevenHW

StevenHW

Starter
#18
#18
I can't speak for anyone else. But as for me, I respect Lisa Leslie's game.

But I find it easy to dislike her and the L.A. Sparks. Like NBH said earlier, it's the rivalry between L.A. and Sacto.

Also, another reason to detest LL is that she has a butt-kissing cheerleader in Ann Meyers, who probably acts as her toady, her publicist, her P.R. person, and suck-up lackey. Whenever Ann writes a column, she never fails to mention LL and sing her praises and make excuses for the Sparks losses.
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#19
#19
StevenHW said:
I can't speak for anyone else. But as for me, I respect Lisa Leslie's game.

But I find it easy to dislike her and the L.A. Sparks. Like NBH said earlier, it's the rivalry between L.A. and Sacto.

Also, another reason to detest LL is that she has a butt-kissing cheerleader in Ann Meyers, who probably acts as her toady, her publicist, her P.R. person, and suck-up lackey. Whenever Ann writes a column, she never fails to mention LL and sing her praises and make excuses for the Sparks losses.
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Haha!! Right on, StevenHW. It is amazing how Meyers can be doing live coverage of other games...that do not include the Sparks...yet she always manages to do a suck up to Leslie moment, or 2 or 3.
 
StevenHW

StevenHW

Starter
#20
#20
You betcha! It's easy to stay upbeat or cheerlead if your favorite player or team is doing very well. But in the Sparks' case, they have not been as consistent as they should have, and LL is having a not-so-great year. So, Ann Meyers' bias becomes pretty self-evident when she broadcasts a game, where she is supposed to be "neutral". (Yeah, right!)

Man, if I had a dollar for every time Ann says "the reigning MVP, Lisa Leslie", I would be able to afford early retirement! :)
 
6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#21
#21
StevenHW said:
You betcha! It's easy to stay upbeat or cheerlead if your favorite player or team is doing very well. But in the Sparks' case, they have not been as consistent as they should have, and LL is having a not-so-great year. So, Ann Meyers' bias becomes pretty self-evident when she broadcasts a game, where she is supposed to be "neutral". (Yeah, right!)

Man, if I had a dollar for every time Ann says "the reigning MVP, Lisa Leslie", I would be able to afford early retirement! :)
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What is really sickening is when she calls her "the reigning MVP" while someone else holds that title. I must have heard her say that a dozen time when it applied to Lauren Jackson.
 
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