King Baller
All-Star
Give some examples of what good signings would be? I don't follow why these Vets are "bad signings"?
Hindsight - What vets should Kings have signed? (split)
- Thread starter King Baller
- Start date
I think this is really a separate topic. I am, therefore, splitting this out into a new thread.
Sac.1989
Starter
Lets build some context around this whole issue.
Ive said it many times. The FA signings of Carter, Zbo and Hill would have been perfect for Demarcus who never had a decent vet to mentor/produce next to him during his time here.
Vets are good because (a) they are a known commodity who perform consistently, (b) assist learning for our rookies and young players through mentoring and (c) provide direct example to the kids of how to play within our systems on the court.
Fans are upset because too much of (a) and (c) is happening and it is leading to more wins, in their eyes, in a perfect world all the vets would be doing is playing spot minutes and (b).
The FOMO from this draft is real and that adds to the overall angst in kings land right now where vets are playing us out of a high(er) draft position. But basically if a vet can cover (a), (b) and (c) and they come in at a cheap cost, then that is the makings of a solid vet signing.
Ive said it many times. The FA signings of Carter, Zbo and Hill would have been perfect for Demarcus who never had a decent vet to mentor/produce next to him during his time here.
Vets are good because (a) they are a known commodity who perform consistently, (b) assist learning for our rookies and young players through mentoring and (c) provide direct example to the kids of how to play within our systems on the court.
Fans are upset because too much of (a) and (c) is happening and it is leading to more wins, in their eyes, in a perfect world all the vets would be doing is playing spot minutes and (b).
The FOMO from this draft is real and that adds to the overall angst in kings land right now where vets are playing us out of a high(er) draft position. But basically if a vet can cover (a), (b) and (c) and they come in at a cheap cost, then that is the makings of a solid vet signing.
I'd argue very little of (c) is happening, or that the system you speak of is not the system we should be running with the young guys.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Hard to say, we could of been adding salary for compensation with the space.
A better singing for example would of been Collison for much cheaper than Hill.
Keeping Tyreke for peanuts.
The two that stand out right now to me.
A better singing for example would of been Collison for much cheaper than Hill.
Keeping Tyreke for peanuts.
The two that stand out right now to me.
Iced Espresso
Starter
Really?
Tyreke $3,290,000 about to be traded for a first.
Why would you not of wanted that?
King Baller
All-Star
So if the bottom line is number of wins right now the Kings stand at 16 wins. Dallas also has 16 wins while Atlanta and Orlando are at 15 wins. 5 other teams are at 18 and 19 wins.
King Baller
All-Star
The thing is those choices look good now. But is Darren really better than George Hill? Tyreke is healthy and hitting 3's, who would have thunk it?
Iced Espresso
Starter
The thing is those choices look good now. But is Darren really better than George Hill? Tyreke is healthy and hitting 3's, who would have thunk it?
Too bad we can't have hindsight & change our minds just like that.
But the fact we had them here & let them go is a tad frustrating.
But Collison who was comfortable here and a better fit in hindsight for the salary savings would of been a superior signing.
I don't have a problem with the vet signings. I just have a problem with tailoring the offense for one of them that seemed to waste a bunch of time for many of the players. I'm confident Fox could have been playing at this current level for most the year if that wasn't the case.
Kingz19
Hall of Famer
In hindsight, only George Hill is regrettable. Not just with production but the fact that we let go of franchise/system continuity in Collison and a guy who wanted to be here. I think Z-Bo and Carter have filled their roles as expected. Setting good examples and visibly playing mentorship roles...not sure about Hill but Hill was probably never the right guy to bring in for that role since he’s still in his prime and isn’t really a placeholder. Collison is so settled as a role player he would’ve been perfect. All that considered Collison has had a better season than Hill.
As for winning too much. That’s ridiculous. The Kings have done a remarkable job losing a lot of games. Last I checked they’re one of the worst teams in the NBA and the teams that are worse have less talent and ALSO have a few pesky veterans on their team winning a game or two. So it’s not like the Kings are being stubbornly different from the other bad teams and they’re not going to throw games. It’s shaping up as it should and I’m pretty confident the Kings will end up with a pretty good draft slot.
As for winning too much. That’s ridiculous. The Kings have done a remarkable job losing a lot of games. Last I checked they’re one of the worst teams in the NBA and the teams that are worse have less talent and ALSO have a few pesky veterans on their team winning a game or two. So it’s not like the Kings are being stubbornly different from the other bad teams and they’re not going to throw games. It’s shaping up as it should and I’m pretty confident the Kings will end up with a pretty good draft slot.
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ParniValjak
All-Star
Look I love Tyreke and was absolutely filthy when we shipped him off to NO for some of PDA's fetish pieces.
However, there are SO many reasons why you would NOT have signed Tyreke last off-season
1. He is coming off knee injuries
2. He plays predominantly as a ball handling SG and SG is a position where you had a log jam to start off with (Bogdan, Buddy, Malachi, Temple). Where will the minutes come from?
3. You are trying to implement a system on ball and player movement, ESPECIALLY from your guards and you want to sign a ball stopping SG who is at his best when he has the ball in his hands, and takes his player off the dribble one on one (i.e. ISO player)
4. As much as I love Tyreke, he hasn't exactly been known as someone who has worked his backside off to get the best out of him or someone who does a great deal of preparation and injury prevention stuff. He is in his 9th season and it took this long for his jumper to get fixed?! REALLY?!
Even if we re-signed Tyreke on the cheap he still would be played the number of minutes that he is getting in Memphis and he certainly wouldn't be given the type of freedom to play HIS game as he has in Memphis. In other words he wouldn't be the 20/5/5 player even if we re-signed him.
Kingsfan23
All-Star
Carroll and that pick, but I’m trying to assume that wasn’t on the table at that time and the Raps caved on it later in the summer
It’s odd because Hill was the one signing I did agree with because he should’ve been an asset, and to me it’s about assets. Randolph’s second year didn’t please me, as I thought you could’ve still kept financial flexibility this summer, and hopefully we don’t pay for that in more assets that we could’ve taken for cap
Vince and Zach have relatively fulfilled their roles and I got respect for them, but Zach’s second year and Richardson/JJ not getting those minutes still eat a bit at me (though if I had my druthers I’d have a mostly young team getting reps and the first pick)
It’s odd because Hill was the one signing I did agree with because he should’ve been an asset, and to me it’s about assets. Randolph’s second year didn’t please me, as I thought you could’ve still kept financial flexibility this summer, and hopefully we don’t pay for that in more assets that we could’ve taken for cap
Vince and Zach have relatively fulfilled their roles and I got respect for them, but Zach’s second year and Richardson/JJ not getting those minutes still eat a bit at me (though if I had my druthers I’d have a mostly young team getting reps and the first pick)
burekijogurt
Starter
the vet signings (Hill) could have been purely a play on having an asset to trade. you cannot just give a team $20 mil and ask for a first round draft pick. you give that money to a good player overpaying him in order to attract him, and then trade him at the right moment for a first round draft pick.
its very hard to believe that he was signed for basically 2 years so he can contribute to the team winning during these 2 years.
it would require Vlade to 1) have that goal, ie hey in want a really good player here so we can win for the next couple of years
and 2) overvalue the player and overestimate his impact towards goal number 1. or is Vlade really THAT bad
its very hard to believe that he was signed for basically 2 years so he can contribute to the team winning during these 2 years.
it would require Vlade to 1) have that goal, ie hey in want a really good player here so we can win for the next couple of years
and 2) overvalue the player and overestimate his impact towards goal number 1. or is Vlade really THAT bad
King Baller
All-Star
Perhaps, or maybe Fox was broken in slowly being allowed to dump the ball off the ZBO relieving much of the early pressure on the young fella. Fox has so far to go on the physical side of being an NBA player that a slower approach was the right approach IMO.
I wish we had drafted Karl Malone, too.
He played well the first week or two of the season when the offense was still a little wonky. When they tightened things up is when he started just dumping it off to ZBo every other time down the court. People keep saying that the sitting and watching while injured helped and being able to catch up to the speed of the game helped and all that but he was doing the same stuff very early on and then got neutered. Remember the first preseason game against the Spurs? Fox was in the paint all game. I think it was a big waste of time that people have been trying to justify for a while now.
At some point, you have to give credit to the coaching staff as these young guys are developing. Irregardless of minutes played, that's not the argument, Fox is improved from early on, WCS has taken a leap forward this year, Justin Jackson in the last few games looks like he may take a step forward, I think that Skal has improved from last years end of the season performance in meaningless games.
Fox is the main guy though.....he's straight up much better. Some credit goes to the coaching staff and the veteran mentors in place and to the players who are working to improve. To not acknowledge this just looks petty.
Fox is the main guy though.....he's straight up much better. Some credit goes to the coaching staff and the veteran mentors in place and to the players who are working to improve. To not acknowledge this just looks petty.
John Galt
Starter
I only think Hill is regrettable because who could have possibly known in advance what a sulker and quitter he is? I didn't see that coming. And for all we know, he's been an effective mentor to Fox... at least Fox says so.
VC is doing what we probably wanted all of them to do. Spot minutes, provide coaching off the bench, and be a guy that the kids love/learn/respect.
ZBo was controversial when signed and is unpopular among many now. I still am calling him a "coach's pick" and giving latitude to a guy who I think is the best coach we've had here in a dozen years in how he wants to develop the players as a team.
Hill is the one that stands out as an albatross now and Hill is the one we thought would be movable when we signed him. Obviously a huge disappointment but if we don't do something stupid I think we might be able to turn him around into a valuable trade chip in the offseason or next year.
ZBo was controversial when signed and is unpopular among many now. I still am calling him a "coach's pick" and giving latitude to a guy who I think is the best coach we've had here in a dozen years in how he wants to develop the players as a team.
Hill is the one that stands out as an albatross now and Hill is the one we thought would be movable when we signed him. Obviously a huge disappointment but if we don't do something stupid I think we might be able to turn him around into a valuable trade chip in the offseason or next year.
