Harry Giles and other thoughts

The best case scenario for the Kings is that Giles continues to play well, but load management and foul trouble keeps him under 15 minutes per game.

If his stat lines stays within 14 min/game and about 6 ppg 4 reb 1.5 asst per game, the Kings have a good chance to retain Harry this summer.

Harry would show enough in limited minutes, but not enough where a team might throw big money his way, considering his knee injury history. If the Kings can lock him up to a 2 or 3 year contract this summer, starting at the 4 mil/yr, it would be the best case scenario for the Kings.
I don't think anyone will be throwing him big money. I think the question may be if both the Kings and Harry have lost trust in each other and so just go their separate ways. It's all very curious to me.
 
Honestly, he's a PF, not a C. He can do C in small spurts, but he's really a PF, always was.
And that could be a stumbling block for his career as anything more than a rotation piece. An old school back to the basket 4 man is going to have a hard time surviving these days. Playing at the 5 should also be easier on his knees long term than trying to chase smaller players around on the perimeter.
 
It was because that's the only way he and Bagley could play together he's 100% a PF also calling him a C would mean he would in theory not be behind Bjelly in the rotation as well.
The truth is Bagley is going to have to play plenty of 5 if he wants to be a full time player himself. Especially with this team in it's most dangerous form as a two combo F smallball team. I know they think he's a 5 position player or something crazy but that's a long shot and not to be relied upon. I do think he has some athletic tools that make him more versatile defensively but him being a true 4/5 is a necessity. For Harry, it's going to be some slimmer pickings if he can't be close to a full time C and that goes for just about any team out there.
 
@VF21 said:
He played the last 3:18 so my theory was wrong.
Ugh. Somehow that’s even worse to me. :(


I really can’t wait to hear what really happened this offseason, because this whole thing remains so baffling after 2 years of the hype train.
 
I think Giles will be gone by trade deadline despite the kings are still saying they like him. He will be probably be attached to Dedmon.
Yeah, I’ve given up hope. They clearly lost all faith when even when he’s spurring decent play and hustling around he gets yanked the second he makes a single mistake. It sucks. Hopefully his next team has more faith.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
@VF21 said:
He played the last 3:18 so my theory was wrong.
Ugh. Somehow that’s even worse to me. :(


I really can’t wait to hear what really happened this offseason, because this whole thing remains so baffling after 2 years of the hype train.
I honestly do believe it may be a Donte Greene situation where the dude just can't seem to string together positive practices and plays long enough to build momentum in playing time. Plus we're trying to showcase Dedmon now and Holmes came out of nowhere to become our best big man.
 
I honestly do believe it may be a Donte Greene situation where the dude just can't seem to string together positive practices and plays long enough to build momentum in playing time. Plus we're trying to showcase Dedmon now and Holmes came out of nowhere to become our best big man.
Obviously I don’t know what practices look like... but I have a hard time believing it. Something had to have gone down.

All the players that raved about him had zero reason to. The hype was continuing last season, and it extended to the floor before his “Bruise” last year. We fans were just as hyped as the team was!

When he plays, he makes more good than bad happen. He has his rough edges, but he’s missed most of his adult basketball career. He’s shown he’s a quick learner (Free throws, becoming less of a foul machine, especially last season after the GLeague)

I really think something happened. What? I have no idea, and I really hope we learn what nuked the relationship.
 
The raging desire to play him at C exclusively has baffled me from day 1.
the reason of course is both Bagley and Giles best position is PF. The team is sold that Bagley is a superstar. That makes Giles expendable. I think that is why the team looked at Porter so long. Had he not been hurt Porter would have been our pick. He fit perfectly our needs on offense and defense.
 
the reason of course is both Bagley and Giles best position is PF. The team is sold that Bagley is a superstar. That makes Giles expendable. I think that is why the team looked at Porter so long. Had he not been hurt Porter would have been our pick. He fit perfectly our needs on offense and defense.
So of course they’re playing Bagley exclusively at center now. Lol
 
Yeah, I’ve given up hope. They clearly lost all faith when even when he’s spurring decent play and hustling around he gets yanked the second he makes a single mistake. It sucks. Hopefully his next team has more faith.
they have gone all in on Bagley because he athletically has higher upside and Vlade’s ego. If Bagley turns out to be a bust, and he still has that potential, then Vlade becomes a negative legend. So their chips are all in on Marvin and when Marvin’s healthy, Giles gets no time.

The problem is Bagley never learns to play defense, never shoots well beyond 10 feet, and never passes, we lose the better player.
 
Obviously I don’t know what practices look like... but I have a hard time believing it. Something had to have gone down.

All the players that raved about him had zero reason to. The hype was continuing last season, and it extended to the floor before his “Bruise” last year. We fans were just as hyped as the team was!

When he plays, he makes more good than bad happen. He has his rough edges, but he’s missed most of his adult basketball career. He’s shown he’s a quick learner (Free throws, becoming less of a foul machine, especially last season after the GLeague)

I really think something happened. What? I have no idea, and I really hope we learn what nuked the relationship.
Its just frustrating all around. I'd feel pretty good about the rest of the year if I felt confident that we could get a good look at Bagley/Giles together with some extended run and see if thats something to build off of moving forward. Hell, even just getting Giles 15 MPG every night for 2 months and see if his body could hold up with that workload then move him up from there.

We saw it last night in the beat-down that we really dont have any developmental prospects outside of Bagley and Justin James as "future" pieces. Thats why Harry was so important to hit; he gave this core upside that it didn't have in a majority of the roster.

The whole Giles situation probably ranks 3rd for me on the whole "Vlade LOLZ GM" scale after passing on Luka and the Philly trade. Just disaster management what should have been a valuable asset.
 
they have gone all in on Bagley because he athletically has higher upside and Vlade’s ego. If Bagley turns out to be a bust, and he still has that potential, then Vlade becomes a negative legend. So their chips are all in on Marvin and when Marvin’s healthy, Giles gets no time.

The problem is Bagley never learns to play defense, never shoots well beyond 10 feet, and never passes, we lose the better player.
Just more headshaking stupidity from the franchise because some of the most exciting times last season were thinking about the future upside when those two were flying all over the court as a well-oiled, exciting, crowd loving tandem.
 
So of course they’re playing Bagley exclusively at center now. Lol
yeah because he can’t shoot so they are hoping to find a center who can defend larger players and shoot.

One major problem with this season is it’s the make Marvin look good season. As a big who can’t shoot beyond 10 ft and can’t defend his real value is coming off the bench in spot minutes like a young Montrez Harrell. But the Kings can’t do that so they have to find time for Marvin where they can and that hurts Harry.

Quite frankly, Holmes/Giles/Bjelicia are our 3 best bigs right now and should be getting the major rotation minutes.
 
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yeah because he can’t shoot so they are hoping to find a center who can defend larger players and shoot.

One major problem with this season is it’s the make Marvin look good season. As a big who can’t shoot beyond 10 ft and can’t defend his real value is coming off the bench in spot minutes like a young Montrez Harrell. But the Kings can’t do that so they have to find time for Marvin where they can and that hurts Harry.

Quite frankly, Holmes/Giles/Bjelicia are our 3 best bigs right now and should be getting the major rotation minutes.
Bjelli and Holmes are playing way above what many expected. Look at all the heat Vlade got for Luke starting Holmes and benching dedmon. If we started consistently starting Holmes AND Bjelli with Bagley back and started winning more games, Bagley would probably complain and Vlade would look even worse (yes that is possible). It’s quite a conundrum. On paper dedmon and Bagley were a perfect fit and potentially better than Holmes and bjelli, but heart and hustle can’t always be measured on paper. Unfortunately finding a starting spot for Bagley has really effected Giles. Even with the injuries.
 
I honestly do believe it may be a Donte Greene situation where the dude just can't seem to string together positive practices and plays long enough to build momentum in playing time.
I don't buy that for one minute. His rookie year and even last year, many people around the team were just drooling over what he did in practice. Not just the Kings hype machine. Things like that don't just change.
 
I don't buy that for one minute. His rookie year and even last year, many people around the team were just drooling over what he did in practice. Not just the Kings hype machine. Things like that don't just change.
I never took what was said about him as drooling though. I always assumed those were just answers to prompted questions. Like how is Giles doing? And then what is a teammate to say? They concentrate on the person's positives and praise them. Like, wow, some of the passes he makes are crazy. Same with the paraise coming out of team USA for Fox and Bagley. Sacramento media asks how is Bagley doing and the guy asked the question concentrates on the positives and gives them what they want.

Edit: And I remeber Joerger being asked about playing Giles and Bagley together and he made this face and basically said there are many improvements they need to make for that. and this was during the peak hype at bwginning of season when everyone was hopefull. just his visceral reaction to that question let me know they are green and not ready. .
 
The Kings have invested a lot in Giles, not just in a draft pick, but in money and in hundreds of man-hours in coaching him up. I don't see Vlade & Walton giving up on that investment unless they have a very good reason for doing so. In fact, I would think it would be very painful for them to do so, given all that they've invested. My guess is that the secrecy is for the benefit of the young man, not for protecting the reputation of the organization.
I would agree. And in terms of playing Bagley over Giles. Next year they have to pick up an even bigger option on Bagley. I don’t blame them for playing him a lot now before making that call.
 
The way we've handled Giles is one of my least favorite things this franchise has ever done. Here we have a young guy who was once the top prospect in his draft class fall to us, a rebuilding team that is in desperate need of all the talent they can get their hands on and we've done everything we can to not give him a shot and try and develop him. Even in small sample sizes he's shown a potentially skyscraper high ceiling with his advanced passing instincts and shooting ability. Not to mention the fact that he is one of the only guys out there that ever shows any fire and emotion. Yet the most minutes he's played this year in a game is 17. Even with the season in complete disarray we can't find any time for him. Yesterday Andre Drummond and Blake were out and Thon Maker held down the paint. Bagley and Holmes were both out. The game was over as soon as it started and even with all those factors Giles only saw 11 minutes. Does anyone else find this infuriating? I understand Giles has his warts defensively and gets into foul trouble easily and often, but the moral of the team is low right now, fan support and engagement is probably at an all time low. Why not give the guy with a high ceiling a shot at this point? What is the risk? Nothing Luke has done has worked. Giles deserves a shot at this point and the fans deserve to see him get one.
 
^^100

There’s been a lot, and I mean A LOT, that this franchise has done that has tried my patience... but the handling of Harry Giles is what finally pushed me over the edge. It won’t last forever I’m sure (maybe?), but right now I’m pretty much a player fan because of it.
 
What the hell does foul trouble matter at this point? Let him foul out in the first half if that's what happens. I'm so over Walton and this FO.
The funny thing is... HE RARELY HAS THE STUPID FOUL RATE ANYMORE! He still commits stupid fouls, I won’t deny that, but ever since his nightmare start of last season and G-League stint outside of a handful of games he isn’t fouling guys on three straight possessions.