The Harry Giles option conundrum

#31
Here's my speculated theory with absolutely 0 proof that I've echoed for a long time.

Harry Giles' potential was always based on his highschool hype. The last time he played healthy basketball was in his junior year of HS. Everything was based off everything his play and hype prior to his senior year. However, Giles never made that jump in development. He still hasn't... He played poorly at Duke. He looked nowhere near the same athletically, and showed very little skills. He was basically an off-ball big on limited PT.
The Kings drafted Giles based off the potential he flashed as a junior in HS and nothing else. A player with 2 ACLs. He was a low-risk high reward type player seeing that the Kings had a total of 3 1st round picks. Remember, we had just traded DeMarcus Cousins...our franchise player. There was a lot of uproar over the decision. The Kings drafted Fox, Jackson, and Giles.

Fox instantly became the face our franchise at draft night. The Kings promoted the living crap out of Fox. They needed to after the Cousins trade..or else, why would anyone keep being a Kings fan? They needed hope for Kings fans to look forward to. Fast forward to his rookie year, he starts OFF the bench behind George Hill. He plays decently, but nothing eye-popping. He actually struggled a lot for the majority of his rookie year aside from a couple clutch shots late in the season. He barely looked like a franchise PG... let alone a franchise player. I think any other take would be recency bias or homerism. We lost a lot of games. Our 15th overall pick Justin Jackson also had an underwhelming rookie year. But then... the Kings still had Harry Giles in the back. An high profile19 year old who they sat out the entire season. I think the Kings believed in his potential. However, the Kings also needed to market another player, and they choose Giles.

Suddenly you get random BS quotes like "Giles looks GREAT in practice." "Giles passes like C-Webb!" and a bunch of other BS fed media opinions by the FO to promote Harry Giles and craft a certain narrative. The hype got so insane that people actually started believing that Giles could end up being our franchise player. All based off what? Grant Napear shilling for the FO? I think the FO did believe in some of the talent potential of Giles, but they HEAVILY exaggerated his talents to give fans something to be excited about. Remember, we were slotted to be in the middle pack of the lotto once again..(before we got lucky and made up the jump to #2). There just wasn't much optimism to be had. Harry Giles was a huge bright spot for this team. People became more excited about Giles than they did about Fox and Buddy.

FAST FORWARD to Giles' 1st year playing: he looked extremely raw and underwhelming. His passing was highly coveted, yet he ended up with a whooping 1.5apg in his 14.1mpg of play.

His first year was disappointing. He looked very raw and not NBA ready. Lucky for the Kings, Fox broke out during this year. Buddy became a 20ppg scorer. Marvin also had a good rookie year. Everything about Giles was sent to the back burner...

But I think the Kings were also genuinely invested in Giles' development. For him to spend the offseason with his own personal trainers and not the Kings was probably a slap in the face. Then for him to come back with minimal improvements and speculatively out of shape? That's a big no for an organization who's trying to change the culture. Giles was never good to begin with, but they put a lot of time and resources in him. It seems like they're just cutting loose ends at this point. They acknowledged that he was a gamble, but it just didn't pay off. He's an injury-ridden player. I feel like the Kings just don't think he's worth the investment anymore. Vlade made the mistake of prematurely picking up Papagiannis' 3rd option.. that he definitely DID NOT deserve. Same for Giles. Giles has shown very little outside of his passing vision and love for Sacramento. But as an actual prospect? He's shown nothing to deserve his 3rd option being picked up.

I don't think there's anything else to it. Giles isn't good. Kings fans bought into his hype because there wasn't a ton to look forward to after that 2018 season.
 
#32
Here's my speculated theory with absolutely 0 proof that I've echoed for a long time.

Harry Giles' potential was always based on his highschool hype. The last time he played healthy basketball was in his junior year of HS. Everything was based off everything his play and hype prior to his senior year. However, Giles never made that jump in development. He still hasn't... He played poorly at Duke. He looked nowhere near the same athletically, and showed very little skills. He was basically an off-ball big on limited PT.
The Kings drafted Giles based off the potential he flashed as a junior in HS and nothing else. A player with 2 ACLs. He was a low-risk high reward type player seeing that the Kings had a total of 3 1st round picks. Remember, we had just traded DeMarcus Cousins...our franchise player. There was a lot of uproar over the decision. The Kings drafted Fox, Jackson, and Giles.

Fox instantly became the face our franchise at draft night. The Kings promoted the living crap out of Fox. They needed to after the Cousins trade..or else, why would anyone keep being a Kings fan? They needed hope for Kings fans to look forward to. Fast forward to his rookie year, he starts OFF the bench behind George Hill. He plays decently, but nothing eye-popping. He actually struggled a lot for the majority of his rookie year aside from a couple clutch shots late in the season. He barely looked like a franchise PG... let alone a franchise player. I think any other take would be recency bias or homerism. We lost a lot of games. Our 15th overall pick Justin Jackson also had an underwhelming rookie year. But then... the Kings still had Harry Giles in the back. An high profile19 year old who they sat out the entire season. I think the Kings believed in his potential. However, the Kings also needed to market another player, and they choose Giles.

Suddenly you get random BS quotes like "Giles looks GREAT in practice." "Giles passes like C-Webb!" and a bunch of other BS fed media opinions by the FO to promote Harry Giles and craft a certain narrative. The hype got so insane that people actually started believing that Giles could end up being our franchise player. All based off what? Grant Napear shilling for the FO? I think the FO did believe in some of the talent potential of Giles, but they HEAVILY exaggerated his talents to give fans something to be excited about. Remember, we were slotted to be in the middle pack of the lotto once again..(before we got lucky and made up the jump to #2). There just wasn't much optimism to be had. Harry Giles was a huge bright spot for this team. People became more excited about Giles than they did about Fox and Buddy.

FAST FORWARD to Giles' 1st year playing: he looked extremely raw and underwhelming. His passing was highly coveted, yet he ended up with a whooping 1.5apg in his 14.1mpg of play.

His first year was disappointing. He looked very raw and not NBA ready. Lucky for the Kings, Fox broke out during this year. Buddy became a 20ppg scorer. Marvin also had a good rookie year. Everything about Giles was sent to the back burner...

But I think the Kings were also genuinely invested in Giles' development. For him to spend the offseason with his own personal trainers and not the Kings was probably a slap in the face. Then for him to come back with minimal improvements and speculatively out of shape? That's a big no for an organization who's trying to change the culture. Giles was never good to begin with, but they put a lot of time and resources in him. It seems like they're just cutting loose ends at this point. They acknowledged that he was a gamble, but it just didn't pay off. He's an injury-ridden player. I feel like the Kings just don't think he's worth the investment anymore. Vlade made the mistake of prematurely picking up Papagiannis' 3rd option.. that he definitely DID NOT deserve. Same for Giles. Giles has shown very little outside of his passing vision and love for Sacramento. But as an actual prospect? He's shown nothing to deserve his 3rd option being picked up.

I don't think there's anything else to it. Giles isn't good. Kings fans bought into his hype because there wasn't a ton to look forward to after that 2018 season.
Your train of thought makes a lot of sense. With that being said his per 36 assists would be something like 4.5 per game which is C Webb like. Honestly, if the Kings are so particular about who Giles works out with it's crazy. Its speculated he was out of shape but his IG pics didn't look like he was anywhere close to "out of shape."
Harry also loves and promotes Sactown and he remains young. For slightly less than four million what do you expect we can get? The decline of his option also looks awful in the context of Dedmons 13 million contract. Harry was terribly foul prone until he went to Stockton but then his play was solid and he showed glimpses of star potential and he changed several games into Kings wins with his presence.
The fact of the matter is Harry has talent. At four million he is totally worth the risk and as you said the team invested a lot in him. If he leaves and realizes his potential somewhere else it will be a really bad look for the team. The Kings cant afford to bleed talent, even potential talent because they dont like something relatively minor.
 
#34
I am just perplexed as to why Harry is not being given a shout? Especially, now with Dedmon completely out of the rotation. Furthermore, they must not want him to develop because they won't send him to Stockton. Does anyone know if he is even practicing ?
 
#37
Based on Harry's social media accounts he spent the offseason renting a mansion in LA and throwing pool parties. That might have something to do with him being in the doghouse.
 
#40
Love Harry so much they haven’t so much as looked his way as they struggle to their worst performance in seasons. Give me a break.
Can’t show the rest of the nba what Giles can become. Decline his option. Hide his game from the league and let him recover. No one will offer him a contract. Sign him to a long term low contract. Bust out with the best 2 low contract centers in the nba. Kings playing the long game man. :cool:
 
#43
BS. It's one thing to hold him out of the rotation, it's another to go out of your way to not play him as they clearly have been doing.

Wenyen Gabriel got in the game before him tonight. Wenyen. Gabriel.
You mean the guy that would become our elite 3 and D SF (because apparently he can play the 3) while Harry become C-Webb
 
#44
Harry is athletic and can throw some nifty passes, but has looked overmatched in his brief appearances.
I know it looks neat when they run the offense through Harry, but having a big stand and wait for cutters to get open is not winning basketball. And Belly honestly does it better since he can shoot.

Luke saw what Harry had to offer, and didn't think it's worth going back to so far.
 
#45
Harry is athletic and can throw some nifty passes, but has looked overmatched in his brief appearances.
I know it looks neat when they run the offense through Harry, but having a big stand and wait for cutters to get open is not winning basketball. And Belly honestly does it better since he can shoot.

Luke saw what Harry had to offer, and didn't think it's worth going back to so far.
Harry is such a fan favourite our minds are clouded. I think this post nails it.

Does anyone seriously think Harry is going to come in and make this team an 8 seed.

Granted his attitude would improve the team instantly but we need so much more than that.
 
#46
Harry is athletic and can throw some nifty passes, but has looked overmatched in his brief appearances.
I know it looks neat when they run the offense through Harry, but having a big stand and wait for cutters to get open is not winning basketball. And Belly honestly does it better since he can shoot.

Luke saw what Harry had to offer, and didn't think it's worth going back to so far.
You're right. It's not a winning basketball play the way the Kings run it but it is a winning basketball play if they would do more with it than they have. If they want to run that play, get into it quickly and let Harry look for cutters. If nothing develops, then for the love of god just have him hand it back to a guard most of the time and then run a pick and roll or do something other than just have him shoot a mid range shot or drive if there's no open cutters.

It's like the Kings have never had a backup plan for this play. It's like they script the first half of the shot clock and then the second half they just have Harry go out there and wing it. That's not winning basketball but they can make it a winning basketball play if they came up with a better plan of what to do if Harry can't hit that initial cutter. It makes Harry look bad offensively because almost all of his shots are of the low percentage variety.
 
#49
Harry looked like the same talented player, but his fouling makes him nearly unplayable for more than short spurts.
It's like he has played less than a hundred games the last 7 years...
 
#52
Harry looked good. Obvious he has much higher basketball IQ than our other young big. You can really see it on offensive setting screens, clearing up shooters, etc. On defense he rotates better and is more physical than Bagley.

Bagley is a better athlete though and better shooting touch.

If you could combine the two you'd have the perfect modern day big. Granted this hybrid would still be made of glass.

As good as Giles looked tonight though it's all seems so pointless and desolate. If he plays well he's surely gone. Other teams are watching.
 
#54
Harry looked good. Obvious he has much higher basketball IQ than our other young big. You can really see it on offensive setting screens, clearing up shooters, etc. On defense he rotates better and is more physical than Bagley.

Bagley is a better athlete though and better shooting touch.

If you could combine the two you'd have the perfect modern day big. Granted this hybrid would still be made of glass.

As good as Giles looked tonight though it's all seems so pointless and desolate. If he plays well he's surely gone. Other teams are watching.
True, might as well hide him the most we can offer is like 5mill
 
#58
Hopefully Harry and his love for Saceamento keeps him here. He has elite passing skills. His IQ is high. Hes only 21 so if he learns not to foul too much and he can manage his knees, he is talented enough to at a minimum be a rotational player that makes a difference. I still believe he has star potential and I would love to see him play with Holmes for extended minutes. It just seems like the two would run off on one another and would be quite a tandem.
 
#60
I really don't think hiding him is going to work. (Most) NBA franchises are really knowledgeable. Harry was a huge prospect in college. There are teams following his situation, guaranteed. He's not going to fly under the radar no matter what.
Kings FO do not seem knowledgeable. I cannot understand the FO rational for not picking up Harry’s 4mil option or where Vlade gets his confidence that he can resign Harry for less than 4mil. Harry can get more playing time and more money elsewhere. Also cannot understand coach’s strategy to have Harry ride the bench - Harry has great skills, attitude, and IQ. With playing time he can reduce the fouls both by experience and gaining respect of the refs - NBA refs call more fouls on young players than on established vets.

His knees may prevent him from starter minutes but he can be a difference maker off the bench.