[Grades] GRADES vs Knicks 11/11/17

#31
Personally, I like that WCS is a bit of a hipster weirdo. Not everyone in the league needs to be a cookie cutter jock.

His inconsistency, coupled with his habit of talking big without backing it up, is what grates.

I'm critical of him, but I'm rooting for him too. I'd be quite pleased if he makes me eat a bunch of crow.
 
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#32
Long winded reply, but I hope I covered your points:

Oh, I get frustrated with Willie, too, because he has so much potential. However, I take issue with the constant refrain that he is not trying. There was a lot of comment on the board last year that he was lazy and not working, but Kayte and some of the others in some of the pregame stuff put that to rest by talking and showing how hard he was working. It’s the NBA, it’s hard.

Willie did not play much basketball until very late, he was more into football. He was supposed to be a project at Kentucky. If you could see how much he has progressed since then you old be amazed. Calipari did not really develop him, Cal has the one and done mind set, and once Willie’s potential showed, Cal played to Willie’s strength as a rim protector and P&R, nothing else, because with Cal it is get them noticed by the NBA and get a contract and move on. Play their strengths, hide their weaknesses, there isn’t time for a whole lot of development, plus it’s college with limited practice time. Most people thought he would leave after his freshman year and go late first round or more probably early 2nd round. But he came back, but with UK, there is always a new incoming class of one and done, so it was pretty much the same deal, showcase his strengths, hide his weaknesses, he will definitely be gone after year two. But he had a foot injury and he came back again even though he was projected as a definite 1st rounder, although I think he would have come back anyway. But again, there was always new guys to showcase, Karl Anthony Townes in particular, so still no real development of Willie, Cal had him doing the same things he did as a freshman, albeit pretty well.

Then Willie comes to the Kings (or the Kangz) and the dysfunction that was here 3 years ago with coach Karl (whether that was all Karl is certainly debatable) who used him in a limited manner doing pretty much the same things Cal had him doing. After that mess, the following year a new coach, new system, Joerger did not play the youngsters because his mandate was to make the playoffs, that is, until, Cuz was traded. Then Willie was given more playing time and we started to see glimpses of the potential. We actually started to see some of it before the trade. Joerger started working him into the rotation more. Then comes this year, the blowup and rebuild, bunch of new team mates, basically a reboot again. Nobody looks good consistently right now.

Willie needs to bring more energy, but so does everybody on the team. I am not sure what the deal is there, but it seems to be a team wide phenomenon. Also, sometimes I think people confuse frenetic with energy. Willie is very smooth, nothing herky-jerky about him. I had a young cousin who played baseball, centerfield, and he was tall and lanky and very smooth. He glided to the ball, didn’t look like he was putting much effort into it, but he caught almost everything hit his way and very few balls got by him. Another boy on the team played center field some and he was all in motion and herky-jerky, always diving for balls (that he didn’t get), flopping around and all the parents talked about how good he was even though he didn’t get to a lot of balls, but they loved “the effort”. The coaches mostly played Drew because they knew he got to all the balls he should.

I though Willie brought pretty good controlled energy to the Knick game, at least in the 1st quarter. Then everybody got steamrolled. The team defense is terrible for the most part, Willie tries to cover too much ground, which leaves his man open when he switches. Time and time again, I see Willie start out on his man, switch off on another and then wind up trying to close out on the 3-point shooter. Willie needs to learn how to guard 3 men at once better.

As for Willie’s comments, that is Willie, you ask him a question, you get a straight answer, exactly what is on his mind. Willie thinks he can be as good as Porzingis, that is what he will tell you. He needs that confidence, although for the public relations part, it might be better if he did the “aw shucks” politically correct thing. Willie is trying to grow into a leadership role, that is hard work, too.

As far as draft picks, hind sight is always 20/20, I’m sure Portland would take Michael Jordan a 1000 time over Sam Bowie if they had it to do over again.

And I have to disagree with you about “people not turning on Willie, because he loves art or has tatoos or weird hairdos” because in this very thread there are at least 3 comments, one calling him a stoner, another suggesting he is high on weed, and then a comment about his love of art. None of which has anything to do with his performance (unless they really have some evidence that he is playing high). Anytime there is a thread about Willie, you will see those comments by the same cast of characters. I believe the stoner and weed references are more about his free-spirited ways, being different than any real concern there.

There is a complete lack of patience on the board right now, this rebuild is not a just a few weeks and then the team will be playing for a playoff spot. That is completely delusional for the people that have that mind set. The rebuild will be measured in years not weeks. Patience for the team, for the individual players, and the coaching staff is going to be required. There will be some good nights, some good performances and there will be regressions. More regressions than good performances for the foreseeable future. Personally, I believe it will be year 3 of the rebuild before this team becomes competitive, but I also think it has a chance to become something special.
I'm sorry - I don't want to sound blunt, but from my point of view you are making excuses.
We are literally talking about a guy not using his athletic gifts to the fullest out on the floor, which is just hustle and nothing else. Not his college coach, not him being late to basketball, not the coach he played for a few seasons ago, and not his "smoothness".
I don't know, if you watched the Pelicans vs the Hawks, but that's how a crazy athletic PF/C looks like, when he is locked in. John Collins was outworking everyone on the floor, not because he is such a skilled basketball player, but simply because he is quicker to the ball than a lot of guys and wants it more.

We all know Willie can play like that. The question is, why he just shows is it spurts.
Nobody is expecting great basketball out of Willie. Nobody is expecting him to be a 20/10 guy. All people want to see, is a guy, who is totally locked in and impacts the game with his athleticism, like he should.
If you don't want to watch John Collins vs the Pels, just remember how Thon Maker looked in the Playoffs last season. He wasn't on the court for extended minutes, he didn't have a role on offense, but the kid was busting his tail on every possession and made an impact on D just by being athletic.

I'm repeating my question: Why should we pick Willie over a whole bunch of mediocre athletic bigs, that are currently in the league, who all can do, what Willie does? What's his calling card?
He is in his 3rd year and is 24 years old. We should have an idea, what his calling card is in this league right?
The fanbase has been very patient with Willie. Most people turned on Ben way quicker. And Ben never talked a big game.
 
#33
I'm sorry - I don't want to sound blunt, but from my point of view you are making excuses.
We are literally talking about a guy not using his athletic gifts to the fullest out on the floor, which is just hustle and nothing else. Not his college coach, not him being late to basketball, not the coach he played for a few seasons ago, and not his "smoothness".
I don't know, if you watched the Pelicans vs the Hawks, but that's how a crazy athletic PF/C looks like, when he is locked in. John Collins was outworking everyone on the floor, not because he is such a skilled basketball player, but simply because he is quicker to the ball than a lot of guys and wants it more.

We all know Willie can play like that. The question is, why he just shows is it spurts.
Nobody is expecting great basketball out of Willie. Nobody is expecting him to be a 20/10 guy. All people want to see, is a guy, who is totally locked in and impacts the game with his athleticism, like he should.
If you don't want to watch John Collins vs the Pels, just remember how Thon Maker looked in the Playoffs last season. He wasn't on the court for extended minutes, he didn't have a role on offense, but the kid was busting his tail on every possession and made an impact on D just by being athletic.

I'm repeating my question: Why should we pick Willie over a whole bunch of mediocre athletic bigs, that are currently in the league, who all can do, what Willie does? What's his calling card?
He is in his 3rd year and is 24 years old. We should have an idea, what his calling card is in this league right?
The fanbase has been very patient with Willie. Most people turned on Ben way quicker. And Ben never talked a big game.
I try to be patient with players. I think I've come to the conclusion that WCS is not the guy we want going forward. Unrealistic about what he should be but really the biggest problem is inconsistent effort from play to play. Frustrating because the ability is in there to impact games on the defensive side.
 
#34
I try to be patient with players. I think I've come to the conclusion that WCS is not the guy we want going forward. Unrealistic about what he should be but really the biggest problem is inconsistent effort from play to play. Frustrating because the ability is in there to impact games on the defensive side.
I think he's our 2nd best defender next to Koufos and I've shared my frustrations with his shot blocking, which has been mildly better this year. But what's even more frustrating to me at the moment is his lack of getting easy buckets. In the Sixers game he was catching lobs and actually rolling to the basket in PnR situations. In turn, he got a bunch of high percentage looks and actually scored a good amount of points efficiently.

I don't know if it's Joerger or WCS but I'm going to give WCS at least some of the benefit of the doubt this year because last year he was out there running the PnR correctly and his scoring and efficiency were much higher. I know WCS wants to be Porzingis but he's not stupid enough to forego 3-4 easy buckets at the rim to showcase his "skills" by taking low efficient long 2's instead. I feel like Joerger has WCS play the ZBo role (or Gasol role), which works okay for ZBo but it's not WCS's game because you can't just give him the ball and have him go to work. WCS is constantly being fed the ball late in the clock with the rest of the team just standing there waiting for him to do something. That's not what I call putting your players in a winning or developing situation. He should not be handling the ball at the high post at any point with less than 12 seconds left on the shot clock unless he's given a wide open shot when no one else can get any good looks.

He failed miserably in this role in Summer League last year so I don't know why Joerger is going back to it. WCS may lack effort, motor or whatever but a good coach should get the most out of him by playing him to his strengths and not just penciling him in this "role" that is a part of a system but doesn't work for his skills.
 
#35
I think he's our 2nd best defender next to Koufos and I've shared my frustrations with his shot blocking, which has been mildly better this year. But what's even more frustrating to me at the moment is his lack of getting easy buckets. In the Sixers game he was catching lobs and actually rolling to the basket in PnR situations. In turn, he got a bunch of high percentage looks and actually scored a good amount of points efficiently.

I don't know if it's Joerger or WCS but I'm going to give WCS at least some of the benefit of the doubt this year because last year he was out there running the PnR correctly and his scoring and efficiency were much higher. I know WCS wants to be Porzingis but he's not stupid enough to forego 3-4 easy buckets at the rim to showcase his "skills" by taking low efficient long 2's instead. I feel like Joerger has WCS play the ZBo role (or Gasol role), which works okay for ZBo but it's not WCS's game because you can't just give him the ball and have him go to work. WCS is constantly being fed the ball late in the clock with the rest of the team just standing there waiting for him to do something. That's not what I call putting your players in a winning or developing situation. He should not be handling the ball at the high post at any point with less than 12 seconds left on the shot clock unless he's given a wide open shot when no one else can get any good looks.

He failed miserably in this role in Summer League last year so I don't know why Joerger is going back to it. WCS may lack effort, motor or whatever but a good coach should get the most out of him by playing him to his strengths and not just penciling him in this "role" that is a part of a system but doesn't work for his skills.
Yeah, I'm not going to blame the coach for his inconsistent effort which is the point I made.....your zoned in on Joerger, I'm pointing out effort on WCS' part.
 
#36
Temple: B: Hit some big 3's, great D. Solid.
Hield: B: 6th man showing up again. Some issues on D, but rotation change doing wonders
Hill: C+: Hit the party early. Incredible first Qtr. Left after 12 minutes.
Randolph: C-: Hill's wingman. Enjoyed a few early libations then took the rest of the night off
Bogdan: C: Looked Spry early. By, the time he got back in the game, was ice cubes
Skal: C: A few glimpses and some awful D
WCS: D: (Content removed by moderator)
Fox: D: Passive effort. Trying to hard on some plays, taking other plays off.
Koufas:D: 2 and 3 in 21. Not his usual lunch pail performance
Jackson: D: Looked confident in the 2 wins. Was completely overwhelmed by Porter
Papi: No Grade: He will never be anymore than Greg Ostertag. What does Vlade see in this guy? Once again, Vlade's over infatuation with Euro's
 
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#37
I think he's our 2nd best defender next to Koufos and I've shared my frustrations with his shot blocking, which has been mildly better this year. But what's even more frustrating to me at the moment is his lack of getting easy buckets. In the Sixers game he was catching lobs and actually rolling to the basket in PnR situations. In turn, he got a bunch of high percentage looks and actually scored a good amount of points efficiently.

I don't know if it's Joerger or WCS but I'm going to give WCS at least some of the benefit of the doubt this year because last year he was out there running the PnR correctly and his scoring and efficiency were much higher. I know WCS wants to be Porzingis but he's not stupid enough to forego 3-4 easy buckets at the rim to showcase his "skills" by taking low efficient long 2's instead. I feel like Joerger has WCS play the ZBo role (or Gasol role), which works okay for ZBo but it's not WCS's game because you can't just give him the ball and have him go to work. WCS is constantly being fed the ball late in the clock with the rest of the team just standing there waiting for him to do something. That's not what I call putting your players in a winning or developing situation. He should not be handling the ball at the high post at any point with less than 12 seconds left on the shot clock unless he's given a wide open shot when no one else can get any good looks.

He failed miserably in this role in Summer League last year so I don't know why Joerger is going back to it. WCS may lack effort, motor or whatever but a good coach should get the most out of him by playing him to his strengths and not just penciling him in this "role" that is a part of a system but doesn't work for his skills.

At 24, I am not at liberty to give WCS the benefit of the doubt. You think he's going to flip the switch and turn into Tyson Chandler by the time he's 25?
 
#38
At 24, I am not at liberty to give WCS the benefit of the doubt. You think he's going to flip the switch and turn into Tyson Chandler by the time he's 25?
I was talking benefit of the doubt as far as his offensive play in Joerger's system goes. Not his rebounding and rim protection. That's all on him.
 
#39
I was talking benefit of the doubt as far as his offensive play in Joerger's system goes. Not his rebounding and rim protection. That's all on him.

That's the confusing part for me. He wants to run grit and grind. But, Randolph, Hill, and Koufas are the only ones suited for that offense.
 
#40
Personally, I like that WCS is a bit of a hipster weirdo. Not everyone in the league needs to be a cookie cutter jock.

His inconsistency, coupled with his habit of talking big without backing it up, is what grates.

I'm critical of him, but I'm rooting for him too. I'd be quite pleased if he makes me eat a bunch of crow.

Comparing himself to KP is a Red Flag. It's ok to compliment KP and desire to model his game like his. But, to make a comparison? It's laughable, at this point. It just is. Now that Melo has left the Knicks. KP just took it to an MVP level. The only comparison that I see: Their Both Tall. That's it.