Grades v. Warriors 11/30

Status
Not open for further replies.

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1
Pop Quiz
You are nearly 7'0" tall and the other team misses a shot, do you:
a) sprint out on the break before the ball is grabbed; or
b) turn to complain to the ref about being fouled two possessions ago before the ball is grabbed; or
c) stand there picking your behind; or
d) all of the above

Peja ( F ) -- hit a couple of early threes, but really did not feel dangerous even then, and that was literally IT. Almost no rebounds when we were desperate for them. Nothing at all in any category in the third. Played a lot of second half minutes really just because the kids were not trustworthy, and because Dunleavy was not hurting us...well, until the end of the game when all of a sudden Golden State's struggling shooter became their best clutch player and drained threes and hit free throws to sink us. This was 42 minutes of true ineffectiveness, and I saw a number of occasions during the game when Kings did not pass to an open Peja -- they had no confidence either apparently. A little worrisome in that I don't know whether its physical, mental, emotional after the recent public beatdown or what. In any case, I avoided going with the F yesterday just based upon the injury, but I don't know how else to grade this one unless it just be "D" for depressing.
Reef ( B ) -- got off to a slow start, but toward the end of the first made an open court steal and follow and it seemed to get him going, offensively at least. On the glass he joined the entire starting frontcourt in nearly complete ineptitude. Kept on working and working on offence, and by the end of the game had worked himself into a nice scoring night. Always a presence, but never dominant (and for some strange reason Murphy kept on guarding him incorrectly -- crowding him rather than falling off of him -- and Reef made him pay). At the beginning of the third once again tried his open three point chuck, but airballed it this time. For perhaps the first time this season saw a little bit of a lineup with Reef anchoring a unit with 4 second stringers. Nothing came of it, but seemed like it could be a good way in the future to give the bench some punch while getting Reef some shots as a primary weapoon. Of course it also means that Reef is very clearly our backup center now, which is just terrible for a team with our defense/rebounding issues. Predictable, but will we never learn the value of interior defense and rebounding? Overall a good scoring night for Reef on a night for scorers, but we could have used a boost in other areas as well.
Miller ( B ) -- big start distributing the ball and making a few uncommonly aggressive moves on offense as well, including an eye-opening drive and throw down to open the game. But, and stop me if this sounds familiar, had ZERO rebounds in first half. Third quarter kind of summed up Brad this year as in the space of a couple of minutes he was posted up and scored over by Adonal Foyle of all people, TWICE, but then turned around at the other end and hit back to back threes to answer. He's not a center at all. He's a point guard. Made a saavy play to draw a three shot foul with 40 seconds to go as kind of our last gasp, but it led nowhere. 18 6 and 7 again. And on 6 of 7 shooting too. Incredibly efficient, passing powered us early (think 5 of the assists were in the first quarter), but as we creep up on the quarter pole of the season, I am becoming convinced we are never going to see him rebound this year. Which is bizarre. So we're back to playing the "how do you grade Brad" game again -- but on a night when we got embarrassed on the glass while our center gave us nothing there, and we had to witness the embarrassing spectacle of Adonal Foyle punishing us inside, I'm not feeling as warm and fuzzy about the inside out upside down game Brad is playing.
Bonzi ( B+ ) -- had absolutely no luck slowing down JRich in the first, but was scoring back at him on the other end. Was battling physically as always, but got the worst of it on a face to shoulder confrontation with Biedrins at the end of the third that appeared to leave him woozy, then came back a few minutes later and promptly sprained his ankle. Was all kinds of beat up and kept on heading to the bench to get worked on, returning, attacking and scoring, heading back to the bench etc.. Led us on the glass again, and no offense Bonzi, but I am getting so tired of it. Was outplayed by Richardson, but was fighting and scrapping once more and came up with big numbers.
Bibby ( B- ) -- Not nearly as hot as he has been in recent games, but unfortunately just as one-dimensional, and doubly unfortunately, matched up against a guy who is not. Quiet start, hit his first, but then missed the next few while Baron was getting into the lane and breaking us down all game long. Continued to drop in shots and make the occasional tougg layup throughout the game, but not nearly as dynamic as his opposite number tonight. Hit a couple of big shots down the stretch, but there would be no late game heroics this time out.
Thomas ( B ) -- maybe we're getting somewhere now -- 2nd straight good bench stint for us. Was very aggressive fighting in there on the boards, which was a godsend on this night, and really WAS our bench for the most part.
Garcia ( D+ ) -- came in first again with Bonzi in foul trouble. Made a few all around contributions, but offensively gave us nothing besides a forced 28 foot heave, and an unfortunate travel on what should have been an easy layup at the end of the third when Foyle intimidated him into shuffling his feet.
Hart ( C+ ) -- hit a couple of early shots and played some harassing defense against Aaron Miles (not exactly Baron) in a solid first half stint. But with that out of the way, returned to missing shots and turning the ball over (by trying to directly challenge Baron and dribble through him no less). I was not unhappy with the overall results, and thought he could have gotten more minutes tonight without the consequences being too dire, but it was a night for the starters.
Martin ( INC ) -- quiet first stint where he missed all his shots, but did highlight things by drawing the charge on a semi-flop against Derek Fisher in the 2nd -- a little of his own medicine. Don't think he earned any second half minutes. Going INC here.
Corliss ( INC ) -- Ok, something frightening here. I'm trying to place his minutes? Yikes. So much for grading integrity. Stats say he more or less entered and left with Kevin. And put up zeroes across the board? If he actually played, give the grader an "F" here.

Adelman ( B- ) -- game started off fun and intense and up and down, although both teams were making a fair number of mistakes along the way. But the fun began to be drained out of it as the Warriors grabbed board after board after board and beat us to loose ball after loose ball. Yeah, we played last night. But it was a blowout and nobody played many minutes. And our guys looked like they had plenty of energy when it came time to shoot. Continue to be fascinated with what Rick has done with Brad and Mike -- making Brad a very large point guard (actually the epitome of a Princeton "big" man right now -- looks like college) and Mike into a very small OG. Strange. Interesting. Putting up big numbers. But not sure its a winning formula. Tonight Rick touched on the bench briefly, but he was going for the win and had rested the starters for just that reason yesterday, and so played them almost the whole night this time out. Playing Peja those minutes though was kind of ridiculous. We had no better options...or did we? Just pointless. Especially if the guy is actually hurting. Anyway, our offense clicked along, but it was all of that other distasteful stuff which klilled us. Not sure there is much the coach can do when guys aren't rebounding besides yell at them, or perhps put in benchers who WILL get on the boards? Tough call though, as we really don't have many guys who fit that description, and the starting 5 is going well offensively if nothing else. Dissatisfying loss, as we really lost simply because they outworked us. So 7-8, but at least back home to maybe fattenr up some more.
 
Last edited:
#3
Peja gets F+ . + is for at least trying to "play". I defend him all the time, but a little extra effort really wouldn't hurt. We didn't play great, but if Peja scores few more we could have had this game.
 
#5
vj9999 said:
Peja gets F+ . + is for at least trying to "play". I defend him all the time, but a little extra effort really wouldn't hurt. We didn't play great, but if Peja scores few more we could have had this game.
Would have been nice if he didn't let Dunleavy abuse him like that too.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#6
Bibby...C...Made a few shots to help us stay in the game, but other than his slightly decent offense, did nothing.

Bonzi...B-...
Other than his missed free throws a very solid game. Rebounded/assisted and played very nice offensivly. J-Rich just could not be stopped, so I won't oenalize him to much.

Peja...F-...Contributed nothing...At all...Why was he in crunch time?

SAR...B+...SAR being his usuall self.

Miller...B...Played a good point-center again...The lack of rebounding is really killing us.

Hart...C...Nothing spectacular, nothing horrible.

Martin...F...Came in, bricked three shots, did nothing else...Probably could be an INC, but we lost, so I'm harsh.

Cisco...D+..
.Missed two deep threes in limited minutes. HAd a couple of steals, though.

Thomas...C+...
A spark off the bench...Nice rebounding, and minus free throws, nice offenseive spark.

Corliss...INC...
Apparently played 5 minutes. Did absolutly nothing.

I won't grade Adleman, but why did he have Peja in there at crunch time? That really made me mad.
 
K

Kings241

Guest
#7
Bibby (C-) - Could not defend Baron at all. Played well offensivly and made a few shots down the stretch.

Wells (B+) - Played decent defensivly at least attempting to gaurd Richardson but played outstanding offensivly with assists and made shots.

Brad (C-) Im starting to think he fits better as a PG rather then a C. Lets see he shot 3 pointers and passed the ball well:) but couldnt get rebounds:mad:

Shareef (B) Great offensive game but got in foul trouble early and made some silly mistakes like traveling.

Peja (F+) Do I even need to talk about this guy. I mean his stats and effort told everything tonight. Could not hit from outside and did not attempt to drive in. Oh wait does he ever drive in...

Bench (D-) Would of got an F but Thomas gets some credit for playing well of the bench.
 
#8
plain and simply, were not going to go anywhere with this team...now and forever. Im still waiting for a trade. We beat teams that are bad...barely...except for Charlotte...wooopty. :\
 
K

Kings241

Guest
#9
PFFFT!! said:
plain and simply, were not going to go anywhere with this team...now and forever. Im still waiting for a trade. We beat teams that are bad...barely...except for Charlotte...wooopty. :\
We beat Charlotte because Wallace had a off night. He didnt shoot the ball well and wasnt as aggresive as he played against other teams this season. :)
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#10
Bonzi ( B+ ) -- had absolutely no luck slowing down JRich in the first, but was scoring back at him on the other end. Was battling physically as always, but got the worst of it on a face to shoulder confrontation with Biedrins at the end of the third that appeared to leave him woozy, then came back a few minutes later and promptly sprained his ankle. Was all kinds of beat up and kept on heading to the bench to get worked on, returning, attacking and scoring, heading back to the bench etc.. Led us on the glass again, and no offense Bonzi, but I am getting so tired of it. Was outplayed by Richardson, but was fighting and scrapping once more and came up with big numbers.
How can you NOT respect everything this guy has done for us so far? :D I'd be really tempted to give him an A- simply because he refused to quit fighting...

I'm not even going to talk about the difference between...

...

...

never mind.

TEAM GRADE: D - They virtually did NOTHING right, and if it wasn't for Bonzi, I'd give them an F.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#11
Kings241 said:
We beat Charlotte because Wallace had a off night. He didnt shoot the ball well and wasnt as aggresive as he played against other teams this season. :)
Not exactly. We beat Charlotte because Bonzi Wells single-handedly took Wallace's dreams of glory in Arco and turned them into a nightmare.

Wells did everything but give Wallace a wedgie...
 
K

Kings241

Guest
#13
VF21 said:
Not exactly. We beat Charlotte because Bonzi Wells single-handedly took Wallace's dreams of glory in Arco and turned them into a nightmare.

Wells did everything but give Wallace a wedgie...
LOL I wish we had 5 Bonzi's out there. I bet we would of won because of their heart, effort, and rebounding.:D
 
#14
Kings241 said:
LOL I wish we had 5 Bonzi's out there. I bet we would of won because of their heart, effort, and rebounding.:D
Portland and Memphis didn't even want to keep 1 Bonzi, we want 5. Just shows what a change of environment can do for you. Plus he may have be on to something about wanting moe mins prior to joining Sacto.
 
#15
Adelman is forcing it to Reef down low way too much. We fed Reef so many times down low tonight and ended up with nothing almost all the time. I don't think that's the way this team should play, throw the ball in to Miller and let him distribute it. Reef gets most his points off hustle plays anyway.

And Peja's going to have to start stealing the ball from his teammates. Don't know whether our players have extremely poor court vision or whether it was part of the strategy to leave Peja out of the game.
 
#17
Mike- C-
Shot the ball terribly and didnt get many assists. Whatever

Bonzi- A
Had a really good night, I'm not on his case about the free throws because he's playing with a dislocated finger. Got boards again, passed well, shot it well, scored without shooting too much-becoming my favorite player. He did really well even though GSW beat the living crap outta him, but HE NEVER STOPS TRYING!:D

Peja- F-
Shot it badly, didn't rebound, actually played(well) for about 2 minutes when I think he hit those 3s and got a rebound? But other than that him on the floor was basically playing 4 on 5.

Reef- C+
Shot it and passed well, kept us in the game with bonzi. NEEDS TO GET MORE REBOUNDS! He was supposed to be this 20/10 or 17/8 guy but even though hes shooting well and starting to put points up his rebounding is awful.

Brad- D-
Ok he's my favorite player on this team and all but come on-YOU'RE SEVEN FEET TALL! DO SOMETHING! REBOUND! He didn't do any of them, it's like he's afraid of rebounding the ball. I don't care about his points and assists, he didnt get many assists after the first quarter anyways.

Kenny- B
Had as many boards as Shareef and Brad in half the time. Shot 60% and gave us 8 points off the bench.

Rest of the bench-F-
Sucked basically as bad as Peja.

Team Grade- D

D for dissapointment, this was a winnable game and we stayed close even though it didn't seem like it. WE PLAYED UGLY. It seemed like we got dominated. Brad made Adonal Foyle look like Eddy Curry. We consistently gave GSW OPEN OUTSIDE SHOTS. Only guy with open outside shots should be Baron, so he's not penetrating the paint and he's shooting a low percentage shot for him. GSW isn't as good as their record indicates(still a good team), we shoulda got this one.
 
#18
Brad has a habit of throwing fits on the floor when he thought the refs screwed him. He would either complain while the other team scoring on him, get a technical or he would make back to back blatant fouls until he gets into foul trouble and is pulled out to cool off. He needs to learn how to chanel is frustrations over bad refering into more agressive play against his oponents. His current methods are counter productive.

I have noticed that Brad is not jumping very well at all. His leg is either still bothering him or he has a mental block preventing him from really going after rebounds. If I had broken my leg less than a year ago just doing a layup drill, I might be inclined not to want to jump very hard anymore. He needs to get over it fast.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
SacDoug said:
Brad has a habit of throwing fits on the floor when he thought the refs screwed him. He would either complain while the other team scoring on him, get a technical or he would make back to back blatant fouls until he gets into foul trouble and is pulled out to cool off. He needs to learn how to chanel is frustrations over bad refering into more agressive play against his oponents. His current methods are counter productive.

I have noticed that Brad is not jumping very well at all. His leg is either still bothering him or he has a mental block preventing him from really going after rebounds. If I had broken my leg less than a year ago just doing a layup drill, I might be inclined not to want to jump very hard anymore. He needs to get over it fast.
That's simply not correct, at least not recently. Brad has been doing a pretty good job, actually, of both controlling his bitter beer face and limiting his complaints to the officials. An occasional bad foul after a bad call is actually is pretty good step in the right direction...
 

SacTownKid

Hall of Famer
#20
VF21 said:
That's simply not correct, at least not recently. Brad has been doing a pretty good job, actually, of both controlling his bitter beer face and limiting his complaints to the officials. An occasional bad foul after a bad call is actually is pretty good step in the right direction...
I'd take the bitter beer face if it meant we could get some interior D and rebounding with it. :D
 
#23
BMiller52 said:
Brad made Adonal Foyle look like Eddy Curry.
I know Curry has tons of talent, but I'd consider the above statement to be an insult to Adonal Foyle. If Curry were able to do 1/4 as much with his talent as Adonal does with his, Curry would be the best center in the East not named Shaq.

I'm a little surprised that Adelman didn't try KT at the 3 tonight with all of the rebounding problems the Kings were having, although I can't imagine what the offense would look like with Bonzi, KT and Reef on the floor at the same time. Not too many guys to patrol the wings in that scenario.

And, in reference to a post mentioning Peja's lack of involvement with the offense, it seems as if the only guy of the starting 5 that isn't out there strictly for his offense is Bonzi. The other 4 are most potent on offense. Doesn't seem like a winning combination as it's very difficult for all 5 guys to be involved and positively contributing on the offensive end each game. Of Kings' teams past, DC was always the starter that didn't need the ball, but his offense was so spectacularly weak at times that it hurt the team also.

It seems the solution (which has been discussed before on this forum) is to move one of the starters with one of the bench players in return for a starter that will have an impact on the defensive side of the ball, and will be able to acquit himself well on the offensive side of the floor. A guy like Adonal Foyle would be perfect. Now, I'm not suggesting replacing Brad, just suggesting that a guy who thrives on playing defense and rebounding, and every now and again helping the team out on offense, would be a good fit with the other 4 starters on this team. The only untouchable at this point, imho, is Bonzi, as he's already providing rebounding and toughness on defense (even though he got abused by JRich tonight). Bibby would probably be next as it's very difficult to find that lock down defensive PG --- I can't think of one guy that I'd consider to be at "Glove" level from Gary's Payton's old days. Brad would probably be third if the Kings will continue to insist on running Princeton.
 
#24
This team needs to play more than 10 minutes of defense in a game, especially Brad. At one point Foyle backed him down, shimmy shaked him in total slow mo and walked right past Brad for a layup. That's just inexcusable.
 
P

playmaker0017

Guest
#25
Stojakovic said:
Adelman is forcing it to Reef down low way too much. We fed Reef so many times down low tonight and ended up with nothing almost all the time. I don't think that's the way this team should play, throw the ball in to Miller and let him distribute it. Reef gets most his points off hustle plays anyway.
I didn't see ANYONE force anything down low.

I certainly didn't see us get "nothing" almost all the time. Going 9-14 is barely getting nothing. Scoring 106 points is hardly getting nothing.

Reef gets his points off of hustle plays? Are we watching the same player?

This comment has no merit.

And Peja's going to have to start stealing the ball from his teammates. Don't know whether our players have extremely poor court vision or whether it was part of the strategy to leave Peja out of the game.
Peja is a wuss and lost the respect of his teammates. He's also not 100% and therefore is not a great option at this point - and was more the decoy than a real option.

What IS being shown is that we have enough scorers that Peja is really just a 5th wheel. We can still consistantly break 100 without Peja.

I think the team is actually BETTER without Peja at this point. There is more direction and there are fewer people that need shots. Garcia gave effort on defense and that was nice to see... and made a difference.

If we could get a nice defender for the 3 spot ... oh man ... we'd be a real nice team.
 
D

DeAtHrOw

Guest
#26
playmaker0017 said:
I didn't see ANYONE force anything down low.

I certainly didn't see us get "nothing" almost all the time. Going 9-14 is barely getting nothing. Scoring 106 points is hardly getting nothing.

Reef gets his points off of hustle plays? Are we watching the same player?

This comment has no merit.



Peja is a wuss and lost the respect of his teammates. He's also not 100% and therefore is not a great option at this point - and was more the decoy than a real option.

What IS being shown is that we have enough scorers that Peja is really just a 5th wheel. We can still consistantly break 100 without Peja.

I think the team is actually BETTER without Peja at this point. There is more direction and there are fewer people that need shots. Garcia gave effort on defense and that was nice to see... and made a difference.

If we could get a nice defender for the 3 spot ... oh man ... we'd be a real nice team.
Maybe we should clone Shareef :rolleyes:
 
#27
Bricklayer said:
Pop Quiz
You are nearly 7'0" tall and the other team misses a shot, do you:
a) sprint out on the break before the ball is grabbed; or
b) turn to complain to the ref about being fouled two possessions ago before the ball is grabbed; or
c) stand there picking your behind; or
d) all of the above
...
Miller ( B ) -- big start distributing the ball and making a few uncommonly aggressive moves on offense as well, including an eye-opening drive and throw down to open the game. But, and stop me if this sounds familiar, had ZERO rebounds in first half. Third quarter kind of summed up Brad this year as in the space of a couple of minutes he was posted up and scored over by Adonal Foyle of all people, TWICE, but then turned around at the other end and hit back to back threes to answer. He's not a center at all. He's a point guard. Made a saavy play to draw a three shot foul with 40 seconds to go as kind of our last gasp, but it led nowhere. 18 6 and 7 again. And on 6 of 7 shooting too. Incredibly efficient, passing powered us early (think 5 of the assists were in the first quarter), but as we creep up on the quarter pole of the season, I am becoming convinced we are never going to see him rebound this year. Which is bizarre. So we're back to playing the "how do you grade Brad" game again -- but on a night when we got embarrassed on the glass while our center gave us nothing there, and we had to witness the embarrassing spectacle of Adonal Foyle punishing us inside, I'm not feeling as warm and fuzzy about the inside out upside down game Brad is playing...
From now on cross him of the Center list and grade him as a true point guard. That would be a fair grade for him, it's written all over on his resume.
As for the Pop quiz I picked up the d), but I'd include another option "go after my allergy nozzle..."
 
#28
playmaker0017 said:
What IS being shown is that we have enough scorers that Peja is really just a 5th wheel. We can still consistantly break 100 without Peja.

I think the team is actually BETTER without Peja at this point. There is more direction and there are fewer people that need shots. Garcia gave effort on defense and that was nice to see... and made a difference.

If we could get a nice defender for the 3 spot ... oh man ... we'd be a real nice team.
It seems to me that the two most expendable players from the starting lineup are Peja and Reef, but it isn't clear whether one is more expendable than the other.
 
P

playmaker0017

Guest
#29
swisshh said:
This team needs to play more than 10 minutes of defense in a game, especially Brad. At one point Foyle backed him down, shimmy shaked him in total slow mo and walked right past Brad for a layup. That's just inexcusable.
I used to say Bibby was the most expendable player on this team, but I've decided Brad Miller and Peja are the most.

Miller - for all his nice passes and pretty shot - plays zero defense and grabs no rebounds. This is killing us. It's not just that he's a bad TEAM defender, like Peja or Reef, but he's also a terrible ON MAN defender. I think, in the end, he's hurting us more on the defensive end than he's helping us on the offensive end. Granted, we'd have to change our offensive system, but it seems like we're finally doing that now anyway.

Peja - despite his godawfully beautiful shot - he doesn't do anything else well. Bibby is definitely a servicable shooter and can pull defenses out ... plus he can create his own shot. I just think this team would be served more by trading him than by keeping him. Garcia is pretty awful, but we looked like a better TEAM with him in than we ever did with Peja.

But, our defensive woes are solved most by removing Brad Miller. Peja at least defends. Miller is highly efficient on offense, but is like a sweet little, docile infant cow on defense. It's REALLY hurting us right now.
 
P

playmaker0017

Guest
#30
DeAtHrOw said:
Maybe we should clone Shareef :rolleyes:
Heck no.

Reef is too perfect to have multiple copies. The universe would implode and all of God's lesser creations would melt while basking in his perfection. :eek:

Errr... maybe not ...
 
Status
Not open for further replies.