Grades v. Cavs 01/04

[Bricklayer]

Cisco ( B- ) -- very confident with his shot in the early going, and a midrange shot at that -- something he does not always show. Was playing in control and coming down and smoothly stroking little 15-18 footers like it was a natural part of his game. Largely disappeared after half however and returned to his wild ways at an inopportune time in the 4th quarter just as the Cavs made their big push. Made a terrible pass, chucked up a bricked three, and helped the Cavs surge past us. And on anight when the tuirnovers killed us, cisco, perhaps not surprisingly, was the worst culprit. Recovered to make some nice passes as we tried to come back, but also tried, but failed, on the hustle play that probably finished us when he saved it in under our hoop toward Brad, but Varejao came up with it for the easy layup. Interesting game, just because for the first half he actually did not play like a gerbil on crack. But in the end it was back to the all or nothing Cisco you either love or hate, or love and hate, or sometimes hate and love.

Moore ( B ) -- got off to a fast start, a couple of bad turnovers aside. Was running the court and getting to the rim in the early going while the Cavs started flat. The fumblethumbs problem as well as Justin's big game stole minutes from Mikki after half, but down the stretch he gave us some good minutes, as well as another couple of stonehands demonstrations. Unusually strong board game from Mikki, and against a good boarding team as well.

Miller ( B+ ) -- some early work on the defensive glass to keep the Cavs one and done, but otherwise a slow start. Which was kind of ironic, becuase as the game went along Brad was doing a lot of good things....everything except rebounding where he may not have grabbed a single board after the first quarter. A recipient of several nice Beno passes inside for layups, and tried to reciprocate with some nifty passes of his own. Looked unusually spry in this one -- there were times when you might have even mistaken him for an athlete as he squirmed his way to the hoop for finishes or to try to drop off passes (try is a key word because he got a little out of control on a few of them and tried to make plays that Nash couldn't have pulled off). Mixed great plays with sloppy turnovers and forces down the stretch. Teh lack of rebounding is an ugh, esepcially since our inabiliy to control the defensive glass killed us in the final minute, but Brad and Beno were really the two guys who set the tone on one of our better passing nights of the season.

Salmons ( A- ) -- had very little luck trying to slow LeBron in the first half -- just not enough strength. But was shooting oh so well -- hitting not only his layins, but just every little midrange shot he took, contested or not (did miss a three). But then seemed to get thrown off his game at a critical point in the 4th when maybe there was a noncall on one of his drives, and in classic Kings fashion he just couldn't let it go. We lost him there for about 3 or 4 minutes, and while he came back to hit a three on a nice kickout pass from Cisco, it was too little too late to catch back up after letting the Cavs go up 9. We changed LeBron strategies after the big start, and went to zones and doubles to try to make him into a passer (which he did quite well actually), so that one on one defensive matchup was thankfully rare for John down the stretch.

 

[Bricklayer]

Udrih ( B- ) -- was once again pressing and just not in rhythm early, but settled back and began to make good passes to set up our early offense. Was pulled early in the 3rd for Douby during a strange sequence where he was going to be pulled, had to come back in because Douby was late to the table, made a nice drive, but blew the layup, then came out anyway. The sequence became more unfortunate when Douby instantly went to work at giving the Cavs momentum. Made a big error and fouled a three point shooter to cap the Cavs 4th quarter run. But then came back and stepped up as he has done several times this season to suddenly try to save us by himself, making three late shots to hold us close. But just not enough. This is an interesting grade, because much/most depends on how heavily you rate the late, futile, heroics.

Douby ( D+ ) -- nothing offensivly, but did pick up another scrappy steal in his first half minutes. Did not actually create the steal -- in fact I think the Cavs guy dribbled it off his own foot. But if nothing else Douby has consistently stuck his nose in there this season, and he went down to get it. Unfortunately such a paltry little positive was overwhelmed by the burst of sloppiness from Quincy after getting an early entry for Beno in the third. In the space of about a minute he simultaneously cost us our momentum and himself the rest of his second half minutes, as Jones was immediately subbed in in his place. Another game of further trashing his shooting percentage btw. Quincy shot a lowly .365 in November...and its been all downhill form there. It was .310 in december, and now .250 so far in January.

Williams ( A- ) -- blew doors in this one with some great scrappy play off the bench, just outhustling guys in there, and it again makes you wonder how the hell Reggie could miss this for months now. Did make a mistake at the end of the first quarter as LeBron blew by him for the +1. Came back in in the third quarter and again provided a great energy boost, getting on the glass, finishing at the rim, and racking up 8pts and 8rebs in only 12 minutes while causing the Cavs all kinds of problems. The free throw shooting hasn't improved however (0-4 on the night, and not close). But note to our broadcast team: what two things do Shaquille O'Neal, Tim Duncan and Ben Wallace have in common? 1) bad Ft shooting, 2) titles. That whole schtick about having to e a good FT shooter to be a champion is largely hooey, at least when applied to guys with true big man games.

Hawes ( INC ) -- brief first half appearance, smoothly hit an immediate shot, then picked up a couple of fouls (the second being introduced to the power and speed of LeBron on the drive) and it was back to the bench.

 

[Bricklayer]

Jones ( B- ) -- gave us another nice hustling first half, including a flying block on the break to save a sure hoop, and even threw in a face up jumper (his weakness) back the other way. Drew LeBron on defense several times as well, no doubt to try to match the strength. Was quiet in the second despite getting a lot of run after Douby abruptly went to work for the Cavs. Not that he was bad, just...quiet. Was effectively our 6th man tonight because, well, that's where the injuries have left us.

Reggie ( ) -- called an insto timeout to start the second quarter after we started off sloppy and the Cavs ended up with back to back open court dunks. I have no problem wiht the timeout -- think it was needed -- but I do wish that someday we might actually start out quarters wiht our heads screwed on rather than watching the coach have to waste one to talk things over maybe two minutes after you jsut broke huddle form the last talking over. Was debating here whether Reggie should get an A for playing Jusitn, or a season long F for somehow missing this potential while we waddled on with Kenny Thomas. In any case, combing his thin bench to come up with Justin and Jones tongiht was a good thing, and he stuck wiht them too rather than bothering with the normal suspects. After LeBron lit us up early, we lived and died by the second half doubles on him -- its a legit strategy, adn one of the ones you can try to use against him, but tonight he beat them with passes time and again. Of course if you don't double, if you play him straight, he probably just beats you with his own offense, so the quandry of the great player and all that. With a back to back coming up Reggie went balls to the wall in this one with the minutes -- we had a chance, and like last road trip Reggie left nothing in the tank trying to pull it off, maybe hoping that if we won the emotion would carry over and let us try to steal one the next night. But this time we fell short, and now we go into the second half of the back to back having just played our started 43, 43, 43, 39, and 32 mintes. Ouch.

 

[6th]

High marks for Justin Williams. He'd get an "A" from me if he hit even 1/2 his FT's.

 

[fnordius]

High marks for Justin Williams. He'd get an "A" from me if he hit even 1/2 his FT's.

Agreed. He contributed well last game, but it was mostly intangible, his numbers were down in the Mikki range. This game was much better.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Justin Williams is too much of a liability at the end of games because of his atrocious free throw shooting - maybe the worst in the NBA - currently at around 30%. Yes he's an excellent rebounder, good weak side shot blocker, and garbage man around the hoop. Still, he leaves his feet and gets in trouble on the defensive end way to much. He also sets soft picks for his athletic mobility and size. His "great effort" can only get you so far in the NBA and unless Williams WORKS A HELLUVA LOT HARDER to improve he will always be at the end of the bench and struggling to just stay in this league.

When Karl Malone came into the NBA he too was horrible from the line, clanging 48% his first year and 59% his second season. By third year he was up to a respectable 70% and averaged around 75% for the rest of his long NBA career, getting up to 80% a couple of seasons. How did it happen? Malone shot hundreds and hundreds of FT's before practice, after practice, on off days, at his house, every idle minute in an attempt to get better - and it succeeded! Justin Williams has not been nearly as dedicated to that kind of hard work necessary for him to get much better than he is.

 

[Bricklayer]

Justin Williams is too much of a liability at the end of games because of his atrocious free throw shooting - maybe the worst in the NBA - currently at around 30%. Yes he's an excellent rebounder, good weak side shot blocker, and garbage man around the hoop. Still, he leaves his feet and gets in trouble on the defensive end way to much. He also sets soft picks for his athletic mobility and size. His "great effort" can only get you so far in the NBA and unless Williams WORKS A HELLUVA LOT HARDER to improve he will always be at the end of the bench and struggling to just stay in this league.

People have carved out nice long NBA careers doing nothing more than what Justin does now. He has a natural knack for everything that makes a big man a big man rather than a jump shooting matador.

When Karl Malone came into the NBA he too was horrible from the line, clanging 48% his first year and 59% his second season. By third year he was up to a respectable 70% and averaged around 75% for the rest of his long NBA career, getting up to 80% a couple of seasons. How did it happen? Malone shot hundreds and hundreds of FT's before practice, after practice, on off days, at his house, every idle minute in an attempt to get better - and it succeeded! Justin Williams has not been nearly as dedicated to that kind of hard work necessary for him to get much better than he is.

This is again a Grant n' Jerry special I know, but by my count the last oh dozen or so NBA champions have ALL featured lousy FT shooters as major starters/stars. FT shooting as a winning forumla is ridiculously ahistorical. Shaq, Duncan, Ben Wallace, Rodman...Justin is not as good as any of them, but if you play like a big man, hit the glass, block shots, that FT shooting stuff is largely irrelevant.

 

[Superman]

Poor free throw shooting may make him a liability at the end of games, but no one is calling Justin a starting caliber big man. He is showing his ability to play solid ball as a part of an 8 or 9 man rotation, though. And if he's able to 8 points and 8 rebounds in 12-15 minutes a night, he should be a part of the rotation, regardless of his poor free throw shooting.

Remember, Justin Williams has won MVPs in this League. Just ask Eric Musselman.

 

[RunNGun]

4 missed free throws cost us the game. If you are gonna get minutes you can't let down your team like that. Even a Shaq-like 2 makes would have drastically altered the last few minutes of the game. For this (and a couple other) reasons Moore will and should always start over Williams.

Lets not get into bad free throw shooting superstars. Wallace, Shaq, and Rodman made up for their missed free throws with 3-5 offensive rebounds a game. Williams, well...helped...but not enough to offset those misses.Not to mention over playing a dunk and getting it blocked when a simple switch of the hands into a layup would have been sufficient (dunks are not always the best option).

 

[kings4lyfe32]

4 missed free throws cost us the game. If you are gonna get minutes you can't let down your team like that. Even a Shaq-like 2 makes would have drastically altered the last few minutes of the game. For this (and a couple other) reasons Moore will and should always start over Williams.

Lets not get into bad free throw shooting superstars. Wallace, Shaq, and Rodman made up for their missed free throws with 3-5 offensive rebounds a game. Williams, well...helped...but not enough to offset those misses.Not to mention over playing a dunk and getting it blocked when a simple switch of the hands into a layup would have been sufficient (dunks are not always the best option).

those 4 misses cost us the game? the 21 turnovers didnt? and to make up for the 4 missed free throws he had 4 second chance points all on him with no help in the 2nd qtr

 

[RunNGun]

those 4 misses cost us the game? the 21 turnovers didnt? and to make up for the 4 missed free throws he had 4 second chance points all on him with no help in the 2nd qtr

Free throws are called free throws for a reason. They are the easiest shot in the game outside of 3 feet from the basket. If he wants minutes I expect him to get those 4 second chance point AND hit those free throws. 21 turnovers...well there's not much you can do about that other than find other ways to win. The key was that the Kings found other ways to nearly win this game even with turnovers by hitting big shots and passing the ball.

I guess I shouldn't be so hard on Williams, but face the facts. The odds are stacked against him to stay in the league. If he wants to play he's going to either have to learn to shoot free throws or he's gonna have to be an outstanding player in other ways to make up for it. I don't care who you are. I would say the same about Dwight Howard (and I bet you that SVG makes him practice free throws everyday). If a team can foul Williams and know that he won't hit them then Williams should NEVER be allowed to touch the ball on offense.

 

[kings4lyfe32]

Free throws are called free throws for a reason. They are the easiest shot in the game outside of 3 feet from the basket. If he wants minutes I expect him to get those 4 second chance point AND hit those free throws. 21 turnovers...well there's not much you can do about that other than find other ways to win. The key was that the Kings found other ways to nearly win this game even with turnovers by hitting big shots and passing the ball.

I guess I shouldn't be so hard on Williams, but face the facts. The odds are stacked against him to stay in the league. If he wants to play he's going to either have to learn to shoot free throws or he's gonna have to be an outstanding player in other ways to make up for it. I don't care who you are. I would say the same about Dwight Howard (and I bet you that SVG makes him practice free throws everyday). If a team can foul Williams and know that he won't hit them then Williams should NEVER be allowed to touch the ball on offense.

that is true ... but I'm just saying you know you cant blame a whole game on 4 missed free throws

 

[Entity]

I'm sorry Purplehaze this may come off as being a smartass. but you said Justin hasn't been dedicated to put in that kind of work. you said it so matter of fact. Now tell me how in the hell do you know what kind of work ethic Justin Williams has? Now to me the fact he is playing and benching KT and stealing min from Hawes shows me he is working hard. The person that doesn't seem to be working is Spencer. He still looks so lost on the court its pathetic. When Hawes comes in the game you can look for a 4-6 point turn around going the opponents way. Hawes can be great he just has to catch up to the game. I remember Kevin looking the same way his rookie year.

 

[Entity]

if you want to look at Justins 4 missed free throws you have to be fair about it as we wouldn't have gotten those rebounds without him also 6 of his points came from offensive rebounds we wouldn't have gotten as well.

 

[Jer]

Justin Williams has stuff that can't be taught: A good sense of where the ball is going, tenacity, an unwillingness to give up, and a sense of pride to go after everything

FT technique can be taught but all of those things cannot

 

[fnordius]

Justin Williams is too much of a liability at the end of games because of his atrocious free throw shooting - maybe the worst in the NBA - currently at around 30%.

There are a number of guys in the NBA with worse FT percentages, with some being as bad as 0-8 for the year. (One of them, at 0-5, happens to have the initials "K.T.")

Justin was a much better FT shooter in college, he took over 250 FT and hit them at a rate of about 58%. Not great, by any means, but pretty typical of a shotblocking, rebounding big. I can only assume that he's a lot more nervous about them now. Yes, he needs to get over that.

Just the same, I don't think that it's a huge issue for a big, any more than I think we should can most of our guards for their terrible shotblocking. Different positions need different strengths. As a dunker who hits about 70% of his shots, it barely matters whether he hits 40% or 85% of his FT, because he's rarely going to be attempting any. (I actively hunt out guys like that for my fantasy team -- people will see their FT percentage and skip 'em, but if I see that they're only averaging 1 or 2 FT attempts per game, heh! I get a steal, because a guy like that can't mess up your average. One or two missed FT a game is nothing.)

 

[RunNGun]

I guess I'm just old school (and I'm only 21). If any player wants to be on my team then learn your fundamentals: Pick'n'roll, contest the shot before thinking about blocking it, and free throws. If any big man can master these three simple skills then they can be an all-star ala Karl Malone.

 

[SacTownKid]

4 missed free throws cost us the game. If you are gonna get minutes you can't let down your team like that. Even a Shaq-like 2 makes would have drastically altered the last few minutes of the game. For this (and a couple other) reasons Moore will and should always start over Williams.

Lets not get into bad free throw shooting superstars. Wallace, Shaq, and Rodman made up for their missed free throws with 3-5 offensive rebounds a game. Williams, well...helped...but not enough to offset those misses.Not to mention over playing a dunk and getting it blocked when a simple switch of the hands into a layup would have been sufficient (dunks are not always the best option).

Bull if anything the only reason we probably weren't down earlier is because of Justin, how many offensive boards (which is what KILLED US!!!) did they have when he was in? I can tell you it was very few if any.

 

[fnordius]

I guess I'm just old school (and I'm only 21). If any player wants to be on my team then learn your fundamentals: Pick'n'roll, contest the shot before thinking about blocking it, and free throws. If any big man can master these three simple skills then they can be an all-star ala Karl Malone.

Now me? I'm just old, so I remember that Karl Malone hit 48% of his FT during his rookie year, during which he got 2475 minutes of PT, and made 405 FT attempts. In his first year, Justin's gotten 367 minutes and 67 FT attempts. Malone finally passed the 60% FT mark during his third year, by which time he'd bricked over 750 FT. At the rate Justin's getting PT, he will retire before he blows as many FT as Malone did in his first 2 years.

But hopefully he gets more PT. Practice never hurt anyone, especially noobs.

 

[kingsfan916]

those 4 misses cost us the game? the 21 turnovers didnt? and to make up for the 4 missed free throws he had 4 second chance points all on him with no help in the 2nd qtr

exactly how are people gonnna blame justin when he was crashing boards well said

 

[Superman]

I guess I'm just old school (and I'm only 21). If any player wants to be on my team then learn your fundamentals: Pick'n'roll, contest the shot before thinking about blocking it, and free throws. If any big man can master these three simple skills then they can be an all-star ala Karl Malone.

I understand what you're saying, but to say that those simple skills are the difference between being an all-star and not being in the League is quite a stretch. You just described Drew Gooden, not Karl Malone.

 

[BMiller52]

I guess I'm just old school (and I'm only 21). If any player wants to be on my team then learn your fundamentals: Pick'n'roll, contest the shot before thinking about blocking it, and free throws. If any big man can master these three simple skills then they can be an all-star ala Karl Malone.

Yea, because we all know Ben Wallace was a great pick and roll player and free throw shooter.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

I just don't understand the Justin situation at all. Sure, he lacks court awareness and can't shoot FTs. But who's the other option? Oh yeah, Kenny Thomas, the Basketball Genius.

 

[SacTownKid]

Funny thing is Justin has the makings of being a pretty darn good pick and roll player. He got a few of his points in that fashion tonight. He is an excellent finisher at the rim and is even getting better at using the glass. The impact he made tonight was undeniable.

 

[RunNGun]

I understand what you're saying, but to say that those simple skills are the difference between being an all-star and not being in the League is quite a stretch. You just described Drew Gooden, not Karl Malone.

Ok, maybe I went a little far. However the idea is still there. Basketball is a relatively easy game to learn. Its nearly impossible to master. The reason why Hawes is in the NBA right now is that he showed impressive fundamentals for someone his age (especially considering he spent only one year in college).

Williams spent 4 (maybe even 5 years) playing college ball and he still leaves much to be desired. All I'm saying that as long as he struggles at the line and in said fundamentals then I cannot see him getting more minutes beyond early-2nd quarter and mid-3rd quarter minutes.

 

[SacTownKid]

There is no question that Justin needs to get better at the free throw line. I remember watching him in the D-league and he was miles ahead of where he is now. He was somewhat passable, I don't know what happened. I really think him getting comfortable at the line, or at least able to hit half of his shots there, would do him some major good. He seems to be able to draw contact very well and could get a sizable portion of his points at the line in time.

 

[Superman]

Ok, maybe I went a little far. However the idea is still there. Basketball is a relatively easy game to learn. Its nearly impossible to master. The reason why Hawes is in the NBA right now is that he showed impressive fundamentals for someone his age (especially considering he spent only one year in college).

Williams spent 4 (maybe even 5 years) playing college ball and he still leaves much to be desired. All I'm saying that as long as he struggles at the line and in said fundamentals then I cannot see him getting more minutes beyond early-2nd quarter and mid-3rd quarter minutes.

On a good team, that's all Justin should get. 12-15 minutes a game, at the most, depending on the opponent. He really shouldn't be on the court late in the 4th quarter of a tight game, if you have better players ahead of him. Our problem right now is that we don't have any depth at the 4/5 spots. Besides Brad Miller, we don't have any established professionals to play power forward or center.

Justin does need to work on those fundamental aspects of his game, but that's not what's going to get him burn in the NBA. It's his hustle and his nose for the ball is where he's going to find his career excel. Other than that, playing pick-and-roll offense and trying to be a master free throw shooter are not what's going to get and keep him on the court.

 

[Entity]

How about when the ball hits his hands he has it. he isn't fumbling around or letting passes go through his hands. Justin has great hands. i noticed that last year when he got time. he has hands comparable to those of Webber.

 

[syadap]

Lets just give Justin some props,he was given a chance to play and he did contribute and showed us what we lack.

On the other hand im really disappointed on douby so far...He doesn't have the ability to play the point and when given the chance to shoot (which he is known for) he misses and has a bad fg percentage and bad basketball IQ as well.

 

[dude12]

Ok, maybe I went a little far. However the idea is still there. Basketball is a relatively easy game to learn. Its nearly impossible to master. The reason why Hawes is in the NBA right now is that he showed impressive fundamentals for someone his age (especially considering he spent only one year in college).

Williams spent 4 (maybe even 5 years) playing college ball and he still leaves much to be desired. All I'm saying that as long as he struggles at the line and in said fundamentals then I cannot see him getting more minutes beyond early-2nd quarter and mid-3rd quarter minutes.

I agree...right now he's a 10-12 minute guy and that is not bad or an insult. He's earning those minutes. He also has some shortcomings that need to be addressed before he gets more minutes. I would like to see him not leave his feet on every pump-fake to begin with.