Good info on San jose

[Section 101]

http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawaka...e-territorial-rights-which-includes-san-jose/

I believe Anahiem is withing 75 miles of Staples so both the Lakers and Clippers would have to agree to a team move there too.

 

[kennadog]

I don't know what those commenters are smoking, but there's 120 miles between Sacramento and San Jose and 90 miles between Sacramento and Oakland. Having the Kings in Sacramento did not violate any 75 mile rule, even if such a rule exists. (How did the Clippers get to move from San Diego to LA, then?)

 

[Section 101]

I don't know what those commenters are smoking, but there's 120 miles between Sacramento and San Jose and 90 miles between Sacramento and Oakland. Having the Kings in Sacramento did not violate any 75 mile rule, even if such a rule exists. (How did the Clippers get to move from San Diego to LA, then?)

You missed the point. If a team wants to move within 75 miles of another team they must get permission from that team. Therefore any team wanting to move to San Jose must get the Warriors permission.

The Clippers must have gotten permission from the Lakers.

 

[beb0p]

You missed the point. If a team wants to move within 75 miles of another team they must get permission from that team. Therefore any team wanting to move to San Jose must get the Warriors permission.

That sucks for the Maloof. What other major city is without an NBA team, is suitable for two playboys, and is 75 miles from the nearest NBA stadium? With an emphasis on "suitable for two playboys."

Maybe Seattle. I think that's it.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Ah...but you miss the power that is David Stern. I doubt he wanted the Sonics to leave Seattle but he had to let them go where a nice empty arena was waiting for them after he failed to wave his magic wand and make the King County folks do what he wanted...um, thought was best for the Seattle metro area.

If Stern decrees that the Kings can move to San Jose or Anaheim, they can and will. Cohan can be bought just as Sterling and Buss can. The return on whatever investment (buy off) will be worth it in long term returns for the Maloofs. Orange County is monied enough and far away enough from downtown LA to make it feasible.

Kawakami points to the A's situation and the long-standing territorial rights war they've had with the Giants over Santa Clara county. If Bud Selig wanted it to happen, the Giants would have backed off their claims already. So don't underestimate the influence the commissioner has on these territorial rights. As Kawakami points out, there is no bylaw that forces Cohan to block the a move.

I just don't think Stern is ready to give up on making it work here in Sacramento. When he throws his hands up, you can bet he'll have a suitable home ready and it might very well be HP Pavilion, 75miles or not.

 

[kennadog]

You missed the point. If a team wants to move within 75 miles of another team they must get permission from that team. Therefore any team wanting to move to San Jose must get the Warriors permission.

The Clippers must have gotten permission from the Lakers.

Actually, my comment was mainly on this comment from a reader (Ignore my comment about SJ distance from Sac, you're right, that is beside the point):

By the way, I believe Arco Arena also violates the 75 mile rule, with respect to Oakand Arena. Granted, it violates it more, and Arco barely violates the 75 mile rule, but it seems to me that a violation is a violation.
Take a map, put the point on Oakland Arena, draw a 75 mile radius, and Arco is in it. Barely.

It might be 75 miles as the crow flies, but I doubt that.

Monty's right, basically. If the league wants it, it can happen. I do believe however, that a majority of the owners have to approve a move. If the Maloofs need to move to survive financially, other owners aren't likely to say no (besides the Warriors), as they could be in the same position at some point.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

Unless ARCO Arena is in Davis and I missed that move, I'm at a loss too how it could be 75 miles from Oracle or maybe even the city limits of Oakland.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

It might be 75 miles as the crow flies, but I doubt that.

Google Earth says 72.25 as the crow flies!

 

[kennadog]

Google Earth says 72.25 as the crow flies!

Too bad you can't get there as fast as a crow. Tortoise yes, crow no.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Financially, it would make the most sense for the Maloofs to move to Anaheim (if they were to move). Its about 40 miles from the heart of Los Angeles and there is a huge and growing sports fan base in Anaheim (OC). The Angels are doing quite well in Anaheim even though they are now called LA Angels. The Ducks are doing well also comparing to other hockey teams.

If Stern really OKs the move, the Maloofs would have to pay the Clippers and Lakers a fee for moving into their territory. But in the long run its probably worth it for them as the OC is ever growing.

 

[Section 101]

Ah...but you miss the power that is David Stern. I doubt he wanted the Sonics to leave Seattle but he had to let them go where a nice empty arena was waiting for them after he failed to wave his magic wand and make the King County folks do what he wanted...um, thought was best for the Seattle metro area.

If Stern decrees that the Kings can move to San Jose or Anaheim, they can and will. Cohan can be bought just as Sterling and Buss can. The return on whatever investment (buy off) will be worth it in long term returns for the Maloofs. Orange County is monied enough and far away enough from downtown LA to make it feasible.

Kawakami points to the A's situation and the long-standing territorial rights war they've had with the Giants over Santa Clara county. If Bud Selig wanted it to happen, the Giants would have backed off their claims already. So don't underestimate the influence the commissioner has on these territorial rights. As Kawakami points out, there is no bylaw that forces Cohan to block the a move.

I just don't think Stern is ready to give up on making it work here in Sacramento. When he throws his hands up, you can bet he'll have a suitable home ready and it might very well be HP Pavilion, 75miles or not.

But the team moving there would have to pay off the warriors. How much money would the warriors want to off set the losses from a team moving into their market? Why would a team pay say 20-30 million to move into a market in this economy? There is no guarantee they will turn fans against their team anyways,

 

[kupman]

Right now it does not matter what city the Kings call home and it does not matter how nice the arena is. The Maloofs will continue to lose money if they continue to put a terrible product on the court. The Maloofs know this. They also know that Sacramento is a wonderful city to support the team - great fans and the only game in town.

At some point in the near future a new arena will be needed. For the Maloofs and even more for the citizens of Sacramento.

 

[kennadog]

Right now it does not matter what city the Kings call home and it does not matter how nice the arena is. The Maloofs will continue to lose money if they continue to put a terrible product on the court. The Maloofs know this. They also know that Sacramento is a wonderful city to support the team - great fans and the only game in town.

At some point in the near future a new arena will be needed. For the Maloofs and even more for the citizens of Sacramento.

Not really true is all cities, at all times. The only times the Kings haven't sucked in Sacramento is under the Maloofs and yet the longest sell-out streak in Sacramento predates the Maloofs ownership.

The Knicks sucked for many years and still aren't great, but it's a big enough market to allow a crappy team to keep going. Think the Knicks will ever leave NY? The Bulls stunk for a long time, but Chicago is not in danger of losing their Bulls. San Diego did lose their Clippers, but they seem to keep going in LA, despite their crappiness.

In reality, all teams go through down times. Fans need to accept this. The problem is that in small markets, there isn't enough money in TV contracts and corporate sponsorships to help offset poor attendence.

For Sacramento you add in the fact that Arco is verging on economic obsolescence. Meaning revenue from other events is falling off as some events can't afford to come to Arco anymore or physically can't come to Arco. Those other events are as important to keeping the Kings as selling tickets to basketball games. Heck, there are nicer college arenas than Arco. Arco is a dump. It's not a very attractive or comfortable venue to see anything.

It's actually a rather vicious problem. Small markets have trouble making money and it's hard to maintain a really top level team without paying out the money. Add to that the fact that the Maloofs aren't as rich as many other owners like Cuban or Paul Allen and it gets even less viable. (Cuban and Allen are on Forbes top 500 billionaires list. No Maloof is, last time I looked.)

 

[hoopsfan]

You missed the point. If a team wants to move within 75 miles of another team they must get permission from that team. Therefore any team wanting to move to San Jose must get the Warriors permission.

The Clippers must have gotten permission from the Lakers.

It's 116 miles between San Diego and LA.

 

[=LarryLegend=]

If the kings did move to San HOE, wouldnt sacramento keep the name? Would our team be called San Jose Killer whales? LOL

 

[kennadog]

If the kings did move to San HOE, wouldnt sacramento keep the name? Would our team be called San Jose Killer whales? LOL

I guess it would depend on the new ownership. I think the name would stay with the franchise. After all, it's one of the original NBA teams going all the way back to Rochester, NY.

How about the San Jose Orcas? Giant Squids? Sea Slugs?

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

The Clippers make Donald Sterling something like $15 million a year regardless of how bad they suck, so in some cases winning and losing doesn't matter.

 

[kennadog]

The Clippers make Donald Sterling something like $15 million a year regardless of how bad they suck, so in some cases winning and losing doesn't matter.

Exactly my point. I'll guarantee its because, compared to the Kings, he has a larger market, a better TV contract, a better arena (where he's not the only permanent pro team tenant), more luxury boxes, more corporate money, etc. Well, that and he's notoriously cheap, which is likely the main reason they suck (and still make money).

Stinks. Clippers fans have a team that stinks, but likely don't have to worry much about their team moving away. Here in Sacramento we have a team that sucks that is very much in danger of having to move for financial reasons, not because they want to go.

 

[VF21]

There may be a point when "is very much in danger of having to move for financial reasons" is true, but I think the Bee primarily is responsible for putting the cart way in front of the horse in this regard.

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

But the team moving there would have to pay off the warriors. How much money would the warriors want to off set the losses from a team moving into their market? Why would a team pay say 20-30 million to move into a market in this economy? There is no guarantee they will turn fans against their team anyways,

I doubt they'd have to hand Cohan a bag full of 20mil out the gate. Secondly, San Jose and Anaheim are not about the fan base, but rather bigger media market and corporate revenue. So it ultimately from a financial standpoint doesn't matter which fans turn against whatever team.

I also agree with VF21 that it's a long way until that becomes a reality. Stern aint busting his hump and burning his cache to come up empty here and so far it isn't really a material point of discussion...yet. I don't think Anaheim and San Jose are off the table as viable plan B's that Stern/the Maloofs are/would be considering.

 

[Section 101]

It's 116 miles between San Diego and LA.

But the Honda Center is only 30 miles from Staples.

 

[Section 101]

I doubt they'd have to hand Cohan a bag full of 20mil out the gate. Secondly, San Jose and Anaheim are not about the fan base, but rather bigger media market and corporate revenue. So it ultimately from a financial standpoint doesn't matter which fans turn against whatever team.

This is where I disagree. The advertising market is shrinking. Corporate sponsors are shrinking. If you had to choose between teams at the Honda Center and teams at staples which would you pick?

LA area couldn't keep 2 football teams now you expect them to support 3 NBA?

 

[Monty'sBiggestFan]

By the time relocation would become more of a possibility the corporate money will be looser than it is now.

The facilities aren't conducive to prosperous football in the LA basin. That's why there aren't any teams there. Had nothing to do with the fan base or corporate support.

If the price was right for Honda compared to Staples, the choice is easy re: where my advertising dollars would go. Hell, I'd suspect the ad rates between tennants of Staples is different.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

There may be a point when "is very much in danger of having to move for financial reasons" is true, but I think the Bee primarily is responsible for putting the cart way in front of the horse in this regard.

They've been doing this since 1997 when Jim Thomas threatened to move to Nashville if we didnt get the $80 million loan from the City. I pretty much ignore the 'hype' articles...and I also dont pay too much attention to the Bee in this regards because, after all, they DID employ R.E. Grashwich for HOW many freaking years??