ESPN Suspends Wojnarowski

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#1
https://www.usatoday.com/story/spor...arowski-senator-josh-hawley-email/5423073002/

Adrian Wojnarowski was suspended (probably briefly) by ESPN for using his company email to send a two-word profane e-mail to a sitting U.S. Senator. Wojnarowski has subsequently apologized for his actions.

This is a thing. The reasons underlying it revolve around the NBA's relationship with China, which some in the U.S. see as being too deferent to a repressive and undemocratic regime (for example, see the Daryl Morey stuff from a while ago). Even though Woj was not suspended for his position on NBA-China, it will be difficult to discuss it without at least allowing the subject to come up. Obviously this ranges very heavily into politics, which we avoid talking about here for reasons we all understand.

I understand people may want to discuss this, and previous NBA-China discussion has been for the most part respectful, so I have put this thread up. I have already nuked the previous Woj Suspended thread because it immediately went down the political troll road. This thread will be zero tolerance. If you want a reasoned discussion, go at it. If you start politically trolling, your post will be deleted and you will be banned from the thread, first violation, no warning. If you think you're pushing the envelope, don't hit "send".
 
#2
Like I understand this sites reasoning for limiting political discussion, but how do you discuss something that involves politics without discussing politics?
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#3
Like I understand this sites reasoning for limiting political discussion, but how do you discuss something that involves politics without discussing politics?
If people want to discuss the Woj suspension, they can. It touches on politics, I get it. But if anybody comes in swinging or trolling or looking for a fight, it's game over.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#5
I don’t see how it just touches on politics.
We have long-standing rule against political and religious discussions. If the primary issue is politics, then it's not gonna be discussed, Things are touchy enough already. We're not gonna stretch the rules for a discussion about Adrian Wojnarowski, who - aside from being a sports writer - has nothing to do with the Kings. Capt. Factorial gave an explanation above. It's pretty clear cut
 
#6
Sorry to say despite being a free speech advocate that I think Woj crossed a line that a Disney employee probably can't cross. I would expect to be fired if I sent that message to a sitting Senator from my work account, I'm not sure why Woj thought that was appropriate. Hopefully his discipline is not severe, and hopefully he does not apologize for more than inappropriate language. But maybe he can think about speaking more eloquently and raising the discourse in the future. And maybe also do it from a personal account.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#7
Sorry to say despite being a free speech advocate that I think Woj crossed a line that a Disney employee probably can't cross. I would expect to be fired if I sent that message to a sitting Senator from my work account, I'm not sure why Woj thought that was appropriate. Hopefully his discipline is not severe, and hopefully he does not apologize for more than inappropriate language. But maybe he can think about speaking more eloquently and raising the discourse in the future. And maybe also do it from a personal account.
I would expect to be fired if I sent that message to ANYONE from a work account.
 
#8
We have long-standing rule against political and religious discussions. If the primary issue is politics, then it's not gonna be discussed, Things are touchy enough already. We're not gonna stretch the rules for a discussion about Adrian Wojnarowski, who - aside from being a sports writer - has nothing to do with the Kings. Capt. Factorial gave an explanation above. It's pretty clear cut
I am very aware, so why is this being discussed here? It’s all politics. That was my point. Either discuss it openly, or say discussing it violates the site.
 
#9
I would expect to be fired if I sent that message to ANYONE from a work account.
I'm sad to say there are a lot of tensions at work right now and I think I could talk my way out of it if it went to the right people though I am the person they call on to type a "firm but fair" communication.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#10
I am very aware, so why is this being discussed here? It’s all politics. That was my point. Either discuss it openly, or say discussing it violates the site.
pdxKingsFan and VF21 have both managed to comment without tripping over the rules. I think you could, too.
 
#11
pdxKingsFan and VF21 have both managed to comment without tripping over the rules. I think you could, too.
Yeah, I should have looked at the details a little more closely before opening my mouth in the disappeared thread. My bad. Work emails/accounts are entirely different than personal ones and should have a different standard. And if your work is like mine, there are warnings about social media and sending messaging that contradicts the messaging of the agency. Especially if you are associated with or identify as a member of the agency.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#12
Sorry to say despite being a free speech advocate that I think Woj crossed a line that a Disney employee probably can't cross.
Don't know why you'd frame that statement as being specific to Disney. If there's a job where you can tell somebody to **** off from your work email, I've never heard of it.

I am pro-Woj, but actions have consequences. Oh well.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#13
I'm sad to say there are a lot of tensions at work right now and I think I could talk my way out of it if it went to the right people though I am the person they call on to type a "firm but fair" communication.
I have follow-up questions, that are probably not appropriate for this message board.
 
#14
Don't know why you'd frame that statement as being specific to Disney. If there's a job where you can tell somebody to **** off from your work email, I've never heard of it.

I am pro-Woj, but actions have consequences. Oh well.
Let's just say that I think there are other edgier entertainment outlets that would probably let it slide if this came from their talent and leave it at that.
 
#15
It's never been about doing the right thing. It's always been about money. Any sports league and any corporation is going to side with whatever side they think make them the most amount of money.

The NBA is just as hypocritical as the rest of them. They virtue signal to the world about how they care about social injustices while they rake in millions and millions from a country that runs sweat shops and oppresses their people. They're trying to trick you into thinking they care when in reality they don't. What they're doing is basically saying that they care about people in group A while people in group B are allowed to be oppressed as long as they're making money off them.

Caring about group A, while allowing group B to be oppressed is exactly the thing they're trying to trick you into thinking they're protesting against.

Feel free to delete if you think this crossed the line but you guys know me. Hard to bite my tongue sometimes.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#16
... The NBA is just as hypocritical as the rest of them. They virtue signal to the world about how they care about social injustices while they rake in millions and millions from a country that runs sweat shops and oppresses their people...
There's nothing hypocritical about speaking out in support of Black Lives Matter, and not speaking out against China. The word you're looking for is contradictory, and it's only barely that. I would argue, in fact, that it's really only contradictory if you subscribe to a completely binary, "100 or 0" attitude, when it comes to social advocacy.
 
#17
It's never been about doing the right thing. It's always been about money. Any sports league and any corporation is going to side with whatever side they think make them the most amount of money.

The NBA is just as hypocritical as the rest of them. They virtue signal to the world about how they care about social injustices while they rake in millions and millions from a country that runs sweat shops and oppresses their people. They're trying to trick you into thinking they care when in reality they don't. What they're doing is basically saying that they care about people in group A while people in group B are allowed to be oppressed as long as they're making money off them.

Caring about group A, while allowing group B to be oppressed is exactly the thing they're trying to trick you into thinking they're protesting against.

Feel free to delete if you think this crossed the line but you guys know me. Hard to bite my tongue sometimes.
Not going to argue that. The good, the bad and the ugly. And sometimes ugly is really really ugly.
 
#18
There's nothing hypocritical about speaking out in support of Black Lives Matter, and not speaking out against China. The word you're looking for is contradictory, and it's only barely that. I would argue, in fact, that it's really only contradictory if you subscribe to a completely binary, "100 or 0" attitude, when it comes to social advocacy.
If you leave the BLM or any other individual movement out of the equation, his point stands. He may have inferred but he didn't state any one movement in particular. There is nothing wrong with the NBA supporting BLM but their silence on social injustice with a huge business interest of theirs is deafening. I hope this is keeping in the bounds of the NBA, China and Woj.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#19
... There is nothing wrong with the NBA supporting BLM but their silence on social injustice with a huge business interest of theirs is deafening.
I'm not disputing that. But that's not what hypocrisy is. Strangely enough, actual hypocrisy would be if they were saying "Free Hong Kong," while still continuing to do business with China.

Also, and YMMV, but nobody who uses the term "virtue signalling" unironically has a point, IMO.
 
#21
I'm not disputing that. But that's not what hypocrisy is. Strangely enough, actual hypocrisy would be if they were saying "Free Hong Kong," while still continuing to do business with China.

Also, and YMMV, but nobody who uses the term "virtue signalling" unironically has a point, IMO.
hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

If it's the way you say, then the NBA only cares about one type of person. In that case, they are exhibiting the exact same type of behavior that they are protesting against.

If the NBA cares about people in general, then they are hypocrites.

Doesn't matter which one it is. Their behavior is morally wrong.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#22
hypocrisy: the practice of claiming to have moral standards or beliefs to which one's own behavior does not conform

If it's the way you say, then the NBA only cares about one type of person. In that case, they are exhibiting the exact same type of behavior that they are protesting against.

If the NBA cares about people in general, then they are hypocrites.

Doesn't matter which one it is. Their behavior is morally wrong.
Your statement is wrong for two reasons: first, it's wrong because it relies on a specious and incorrect interpretation of what BLM stands for. And second, it is wrong because nothing about the NBA's behavior vis-à-vis China does not conform to their public statements, vis-à-vis China. There is no lack of consistency there.

"Cares about people in general" is just that binary, false ultimatum nonsense I was talking about earlier: you're not allowed to support anything, unless you support everything. I'm not here for that.

More to the point, I don't think that the subject of Woj's email actually gives a damn about China, anyway. That dude was just trying to "All Lives Matter" the NBA, so I'm not super receptive to appeals of "What about China?" being made by people who mostly just to make the NBA shut up about other issues.
 
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#23
More to the point, I don't think that the subject of Woj's email actually gives a damn about China, anyway. That dude was just trying to "All Lives Matter" the NBA, so I'm not super receptive to appeals of "What about China?" being made by people who mostly just to make the NBA shut up about other issues.
So that Senator and Grant should be fired for "All Lives Matter" but Woj should not be fired for F U to a Senator?
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#24
So that Senator and Grant should be fired for "All Lives Matter" but Woj should not be fired for F U to a Senator?
First of all, I didn't say anything about Senator Howley, other than that I think his "concern" about China is insincere, and I stand behind what I said on that. And, second of all, what part of my post did you read so poorly that you managed to interpret it as meaning that Wojnarowski shouldn't be fired?
 
#25
First of all, I didn't say anything about Senator Howley, other than that I think his "concern" about China is insincere, and I stand behind what I said on that. And, second of all, what part of my post did you read so poorly that you managed to interpret it as meaning that Wojnarowski shouldn't be fired?
So "That dude was just trying to "All Lives Matter" the NBA" was not about Senator Howley? If so please clarity who "That Dude" was in reference too?
And yes you are correct, my apologies , you did not say Whether Woj should or should not be fired. but with every NBA player tweeting #FreeWoj I don't see him loosing his job.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#26
So "That dude was just trying to "All Lives Matter" the NBA" was not about Senator Howley? If so please clarity who "That Dude" was in reference too?
"That dude was just trying to "All Lives Matter" the NBA" was about Senator Howley. It's just not a comment on whether or not he should be fired, and I'm not clear how you made that connection?

And yes you are correct, my apologies , you did not say Whether Woj should or should not be fired. but with every NBA player tweeting #FreeWoj I don't see him loosing his job.
For the record, and getting back to the thread topic, whether I think Woj should be fired has nothing to do with whether I would fire him. Based on what he did, I would have no objection to ESPN firing him, at all. But, if my name were Mister ESPN, I wouldn't do it.

Of course, if my name were Mister ESPN, that network would look really different...
 
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#27
Is anyone going to miss Woj's journalistic voice? I think of him as basically a Twitter account scoop machine. The world will survive if we find out about player transactions 30 seconds later.
 
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Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
#30
So that Senator and Grant should be fired for "All Lives Matter" but Woj should not be fired for F U to a Senator?
To be fair, one statement is a racially charged phrase said in response to a civil rights movement while the other is an unfortunate statement of personal distaste. We’re all entitled to our own opinions but to me context makes one of these two far worse than the other in the same way that a turd in a toilet is often seen as being less distasteful than a turd on the sidewalk.
 
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