[EAST] Playoffs - Round 2
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Yeah, the haters just continue to dig a deeper hole.
LBJ may not be the greatest pure scorer of all time and it's debatable whom the GOAT truly is, but he's the best 'all-around' player I've ever seen.
I have friends that constantly tell me how much more clutch Michael Jordan was (and I grew up with MJ as my fav) and how he's 6-0 in the Finals -- which I find to be the dumbest argument ever. As if losing in earlier rounds or not even making the post season at all somehow doesn't count.
LBJ has taken some talent deficient teams a lot further than most other players could have carried them. Admittedly, the East has been much weaker than the West during most, if not all, of his career .... but still.
This cat took the 2007 Cavs, whose 2nd leading scorer was Larry Hughes (14.9 per) to the NBA Finals. MJ never carried a team as talent deficient as that squad to a Final appearance. Not even conference finals.
People selectively forget that MJ never won w/o Scottie Pippen and that the 1st full season after he retired to play baseball the Bulls won 55 games and reached the conference semis. The first full season after LBJ left for Miami, the Cavs won just 19 and earned the #1 draft pick.
For most of LBJ's Cleveland career, he was playing with a far inferior roster compared to what MJ had in Chicago.
I'm not saying LBJ is the best ever. But those that omit him from the discussion and/or continue to mock his greatness are really missing the mark.
LBJ may not be the greatest pure scorer of all time and it's debatable whom the GOAT truly is, but he's the best 'all-around' player I've ever seen.
I have friends that constantly tell me how much more clutch Michael Jordan was (and I grew up with MJ as my fav) and how he's 6-0 in the Finals -- which I find to be the dumbest argument ever. As if losing in earlier rounds or not even making the post season at all somehow doesn't count.
LBJ has taken some talent deficient teams a lot further than most other players could have carried them. Admittedly, the East has been much weaker than the West during most, if not all, of his career .... but still.
This cat took the 2007 Cavs, whose 2nd leading scorer was Larry Hughes (14.9 per) to the NBA Finals. MJ never carried a team as talent deficient as that squad to a Final appearance. Not even conference finals.
People selectively forget that MJ never won w/o Scottie Pippen and that the 1st full season after he retired to play baseball the Bulls won 55 games and reached the conference semis. The first full season after LBJ left for Miami, the Cavs won just 19 and earned the #1 draft pick.
For most of LBJ's Cleveland career, he was playing with a far inferior roster compared to what MJ had in Chicago.
I'm not saying LBJ is the best ever. But those that omit him from the discussion and/or continue to mock his greatness are really missing the mark.
I tell them that 6-6 would be greater than 6-0 because it's 6 additional times reaching the Finals while the other was busy losing in lower rounds or missing the postseason altogether.
I don't subscribe to the 'he/she that has the most titles' is GOAT theory at all. But with regard to the above, I tend to look at it more like this. Every season a player wasn't on the team that won the title, they lost.
So Jordan is 6-9 during his 15 season career. Kobe Bryant is 5-15 during his 20 season career. And LBJ is currently 3-11 with this season still pending.
But comparing titles is silly to me since they all played with different levels of talent surrounding them and in different eras with different rules and against differing levels of competition.
Nobody can know anything for certain, but I feel strongly that Jordan isn't part of 6 titles and Bill Russell isn't part of 11 if they replaced LBJ on each and every team he played on. Perhaps they win more than 3, but not as many as they did on their respective teams.
Conversely, I believe that had LBJ played 9 1/2 seasons with a player of Scottie Pippen's caliber, he might have 5 or 6 titles too. He played 4 with DWade and managed 2.
I don't subscribe to the 'he/she that has the most titles' is GOAT theory at all. But with regard to the above, I tend to look at it more like this. Every season a player wasn't on the team that won the title, they lost.
So Jordan is 6-9 during his 15 season career. Kobe Bryant is 5-15 during his 20 season career. And LBJ is currently 3-11 with this season still pending.
But comparing titles is silly to me since they all played with different levels of talent surrounding them and in different eras with different rules and against differing levels of competition.
Nobody can know anything for certain, but I feel strongly that Jordan isn't part of 6 titles and Bill Russell isn't part of 11 if they replaced LBJ on each and every team he played on. Perhaps they win more than 3, but not as many as they did on their respective teams.
Conversely, I believe that had LBJ played 9 1/2 seasons with a player of Scottie Pippen's caliber, he might have 5 or 6 titles too. He played 4 with DWade and managed 2.
Nowhere near the playoffs, but we'd be much better off with Anunoby than Jackson. We spent the #15 pick on a SF in last year's draft, and we still need a SF going into this year's draft.
Anunoby hasn't faired well against Lebron, but no one does. He did a great job on Porter Jr and the other Washington lineups though.
Anunoby hasn't faired well against Lebron, but no one does. He did a great job on Porter Jr and the other Washington lineups though.
Ok as the Celtics are my B-team even though it is long before my time I've always found it curious why Russell is always left out of this conversation by people that support the championships argument.
For my money GOAT is probably Magic. And I hate the Fing Lakers. Could play all 5 positions in the NBA finals if asked and indubitably made his teammates better. Not sure what more you can ask. Did I mention I hate the Lakers??? I really hate the Lakers.
God I hate the Lakers.
For my money GOAT is probably Magic. And I hate the Fing Lakers. Could play all 5 positions in the NBA finals if asked and indubitably made his teammates better. Not sure what more you can ask. Did I mention I hate the Lakers??? I really hate the Lakers.
God I hate the Lakers.
Totally agree. In fact, I always bring up Bill Russell and the other Celtics that have a zillion titles from that era when someone throws the "Jordan has 6 or Kobe has 5 while LBJ only has 3" argument at me. That criteria is rarely applied with any consistency.
A tremendous argument can certainly be made for him. As can be made for Kareem.
In past discussions with friends going back years, we've played the hypothetical of whom would you take if you were starting a team from scratch and could select any player from any era during their prime. Not knowing exactly who else I could end up with, I've always said Magic Johnson because of his versatility and ability to make everyone else better.
Having said that, LBJ's career has grown to a point where I very might take him now for similar reasons. The factor that tips the scales for me is LBJ's impact on defense, especially in big moments. Think of his block on Andre Iguodala that likely helped them to win that series against GSW. He always seems to come up with those types of plays when they're needed. And his impact on offense is Magic like.
On a side note, I just overheard on ESPN while typing this reply that LeBron has more playoff buzzer beating, game winning shots than Jordan and Kobe combined. So much for him not being clutch.
A tremendous argument can certainly be made for him. As can be made for Kareem.
In past discussions with friends going back years, we've played the hypothetical of whom would you take if you were starting a team from scratch and could select any player from any era during their prime. Not knowing exactly who else I could end up with, I've always said Magic Johnson because of his versatility and ability to make everyone else better.
Having said that, LBJ's career has grown to a point where I very might take him now for similar reasons. The factor that tips the scales for me is LBJ's impact on defense, especially in big moments. Think of his block on Andre Iguodala that likely helped them to win that series against GSW. He always seems to come up with those types of plays when they're needed. And his impact on offense is Magic like.
On a side note, I just overheard on ESPN while typing this reply that LeBron has more playoff buzzer beating, game winning shots than Jordan and Kobe combined. So much for him not being clutch.
Might just be the best coach in the NBA. No titles yet, but not many could right the ship minus the franchises 2 best players. His situational play calling is beyond excellent.
As much grief as Coach Joerger gets, he's actually fairly good at that too.
"The Process" ..... of elimination.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
As much grief as Coach Joerger gets, he's actually fairly good at that too.
"The Process" ..... of elimination.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
Might just be the best coach in the NBA. No titles yet, but not many could right the ship minus the franchises 2 best players. His situational play calling is beyond excellent.
As much grief as Coach Joerger gets, he's actually fairly good at that too.
"The Process" ..... of elimination.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
As much grief as Coach Joerger gets, he's actually fairly good at that too.
"The Process" ..... of elimination.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
"The Process" ..... of elimination.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
I so loathe that phrase and what the 6ers organization did to get where they are, I'm very glad they got ousted. I'm further hoping for a curse on their franchise in that they shall never get past LBJ if he remains in the East or the Celtics. They'll basically be the new version of the Toronto Raptors.
And the most striking part of The Process is that Philly even f***ed up at a number of stages along the way!! Drafting Nerlens Noel (via trade), Jahlil Okafor, and Markelle Fultz turned out to be huge missteps. But that franchise is still well-positioned for the future because of Embiid and Simmons. The Process netted them two legitimate superstars, and now they're poised to be a playoff contender for the next half-dozen seasons or more.
And if I'm the Sixers, I'm largely unconcerned with Lebron James. He's playing at an amazingly high level for a 33-year-old with 15 years' worth of a superstar's wear and tear on his body. The way in which he's able to carry a subpar team on his back has become the stuff of legend. He can probably even sustain this for another few seasons, but he absolutely won't be playing this way as Embiid and Simmons enter their primes.
As for the Celtics, they're going to be another damn good team that the Sixers will have to deal with. But as good as they'll be with Kyrie Irving and Gordon Hayward back in the lineup next season, they don't have an in-his-prime Lebron James to stand in the way of a team like the Sixers year in and year out. And the other transcendent superstars are out west. Steph Curry, Kevin Durant, etc. The Celtics and Sixers will probably be trading playoff victories across the next decade, like the Celtics-Pistons rivalries of the mid-80's.
Now, all of that said, everything the Sixers have built completely falls apart if Embiid's injury history portends a future where he's never playing more than 50-60 games per season. If he's constantly out of the lineup, then The Process will never achieve the championship that it was meant to deliver. So I suppose any curse should be directed at the big fella's health.
I still think this is up in the air. Sure, he's a unique player given the multitude of skills he has for a player his size. But as I heard mentioned on a radio program today, Boston was able to capitalize on the fact that Simmons was no threat on the perimeter. The Celtics didn't play overly well offensively in that series, but their defense was able to make up the difference. Some of that had to do with Simmons lack of a jump shot or even willingness to try to score from the perimeter.
I agree with the point that the 6ers are going to continue to have trouble in the playoffs (against good teams) until Simmons overcomes this obvious and exploitable weakness.
I agree with the point that the 6ers are going to continue to have trouble in the playoffs (against good teams) until Simmons overcomes this obvious and exploitable weakness.