Draft pick wish list

Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#1
#1
I can't seem to find a thread on this and if it is i must be past the first page so here goes.

Lets see you wish list for our 19th pick. Please keep it realistic because I want to use this as ideas for me to keep up with realistic players that will be available.

My list is short and it is all big men

Hilton Armstrong
Saer Sene
Paul Milsap
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#2
#2
Obviously I'd like anyone in my sig, but that depends and do have a smaller group:

Big: Hilton Armstrong

Combo/spark guard: One of Guillermo Diaz/Quincy Douby/Curtis Stinson

If Armstrong's not available, I see us taking a small guard, be it a combo or PG. I'd expect a combo guard first though, since we have Price for a young PG already, and he's already on the summer league roster w/ Petrie commenting highly on him a few times.

I'd be fine drafting a PG, as I really like Lowry/Rondo but would question what goes on with the two young PGs then. Maybe draft Sene if Armstrong's not there, but with the guards it's probably more favorable.
 
Sptsjunkie

Sptsjunkie

Starter
#3
#3
Petrie's history

I wouldn't hold my breath for a big man, Looking at Petrie's first round draft hisotry (with us), he has taken:

2 PFs - Brian Grant and Corliss
1 PG - Jason Williams
6 SG/SFs - Tariq Abdul-Wahad, Peja, Hedo, Gerald Wallace, K-Mart, and Garcia

Just as importantly, all of the PFs and PGs were drafted with a lottery pick, whereas the vast majority of the swingmen were taken in the middle to late parts of the first round.

I think that swingmen tend to develop a lot quicker and have a much higher rate of success than big men. Petrie tends to trade for (Webber, Miller) or sign (Vlade, Pollard, Keon Clark) the big men he likes.

Sene looks very similar to Diop and after the post-season, I would love for the Kings to have a player similar to Diop. However, it took Diop nearly 6 years to develop.

My guess is that the Kings look for more backcourt scoring with the pick. There are a number of combo guards out there in the Bobby Jackson mold. I would not be suprised to see Petrie select Quincy Doulby, Guillermo Diaz, Shannon Brown, or Mardy Collins.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#4
#4
Highly disagree on drafting a big man, why? Well, we need a big who's defensive minded, as we lack that, and youth in the front-court. Also being the most suitable time to draft a big man, after having Webber/Vlade/Clark/Pollard/Brad Miller/Funderburke/Corliss (Brad could still be here, but he's only one) over the past 8 years. Compared to now (heck, even last year, but that's gone), with so much uncertainity in the front court, except for Shareef, I'd say.

Our current main front-court: KT/SAR/Brad/Potapenko - Need some defense and athleticism in there, likely some of that comes through the draft. There's free-agency as well, of course. I don't think anyone expects 4/4 or 3/4 of that group to still be here. I don't, and myself, might not expect 2/4 still on the team.

Hilton Armstrong would be the perfect fit for what we need there.

http://www.draftexpress.com/viewprofile.php?p=380

We already have Martin/Garcia/Monia as young swingmen. Monia's already on the VSL roster, Petrie's spoken highly of him twice at least, and Martin/Garcia are obviously staying unless traded for a star. There's only room for three right now, and will continue unless Bonzi's gone and we don't replace him with an experienced swing. Which I don't see us having Artest and 3 young swingmen as our crop there. Two of them would have to be dealt if we don't want a log-jam, adding a FOURTH young swingmen. Unless we're going to be stockpiling young swingmen for a trade, and involve one or two of them.

I do agree about drafting a combo guard, that's our other need and suitable draft pick. Would like to see more mention of Curtis Stinson though, as he'd be a great fit for us, as would Diaz/Douby.

Point guards I already covered above.
 
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Sptsjunkie

Sptsjunkie

Starter
#5
#5
I don't

I agree that we need more big men. Nowhere in my post did I say the Kings should keep their same frontcourt from last season. I just don't think that Petrie likes to use picks on big men. A higher percentage of them turn out to be busts. They take longer to develop. The ones who can really turn a team around are lottery picks. If the Kings could get a top 3 pick, I'm sure Petrie would take one of the top 3 big men, I'm just not sure he will roll the dice with Sene (who will definitely take several years to develop) or Armstrong (who has bust written all over him), when he can bring in a contributor like Doulby or Diaz who can come of the bench and contribute to the team this season.

Get enough legitimate talent and then Petrie can sucker a team into giving us a good big man for a replaceable swingman and a mediocre big. Just like Richmond and Thorpe for Webber and Hedo and Pollard for Miller. It's Petrie's MO.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#6
#6
I wasn't saying you were implying to keep our FC. Hilton Armstrong is a guy who can come in and contribute right away, from what I've read the last month or so. He's also going to or already has worked out for us.

With our situation now, it's the most likely in 8 years we'll draft a big.

Douby/Diaz/Stinson would be a good pick, though, yes.
 
Kev.in

Kev.in

Starter
#7
#7
Sergio Rodriguez
Quincy Douby
Hilton Armstrong
Guillermo Diaz
Saer Sene
Alexander Johnson

That's my short list of players to keep an eye on for now.
 
Sptsjunkie

Sptsjunkie

Starter
#8
#8
Agree and Disagree

While I agree with you that this is the year we are most likely to draft a big, I still think Hilton would be a terrible pick. From what I've read, he consistently underachieved his first three years at UConn before having his best year by far this last season. However, look at the actual statistics:

9.7 pts 6.6 rbs .7 asts 2.3 tos 3.1 blks

First off, with the exception of blocks, these numbers are very poor for college. 6.6 rebounds per game in college does not bode well for his NBA potential. Also, he had 3 turnovers per assist. Essentially, he might become a shot blocking PF/C who can't rebound, score anything other than a dunk, or handle the ball. Don't we already have Jamal Sampson? Sampson averaged 6.5 pts and 6.4 rbs a game as a freshman before he declared for the draft.

Another important indicator of a players abilities is how he performed against teams with potential NBA players at his position. In other words, did a player like Armstrong pad his stats dominating weak competition or was he still able to perform playing aganst the types of players he would face nightly in the NBA.

Again Armstrong fails this test. Armstrong had some great games against no name teams. For example:

Stony Brook - 11 pts, 11 rbs, 8 blks
Quinnipiac - 26 pts, 10 rbs, 2 blks
Providence - 16 pts, 12 rbs, 3 blks

So against UConn's weakest competition he averaged:

17 pts, 11 rbs, 4.3 blks


In fact, all of his double doubles came against weak competion.

So how did he do against real competition:

Gonzaga - 5 pts, 7 rbs, 5 blks (Batista had 19 and 8)
LSU - 11 pts, 3 rbs, 4 blks (Thomas had 15 and 13)
Pitt - 5 pts, 7 rbs, 3 blks (and Gray put up 23 and 12)
West Vir. - 15 pts, 3 rbs, 1 blk (Pittsnogle has 15 and 3)
George Mason - 8 pts, 5 rbs, 4 blks (Thomas has 19 and 12 and UConn is eliminated from tourney)

So against Centers who might get drafted and in UConn's elimination game he averaged:

8.8 pts, 5 rbs, 5 blks

While the players he was guarding averaged:

18.2 pts, 9.6 rbs (and only one of them is a likely 1st round pick)

Factor in all the times he dissapeared againts poor competition as well and I'll have to say "pass" on Armstrong. I understand his appeal, since this draft is very weak for big men. However, in most seasons he would be a very late first round pick or more likely a second round pick. I don't think his one mediocre season justifies the selection. Petrie is going to have to use free agency and trades to get us the big men we need.

If you want to double check my statistics:

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncb/player/gamelog?playerId=11222
 
Kev.in

Kev.in

Starter
#9
#9
Very interesting numbers on Hilton. Judging college big men is so hard, especially for those projected to be taken outside of the top 10. I remember Samuel Dalembert at Seton Hall being a pretty good shotblocker and an even better foul committer. He's turned out to be a pretty solid pro and I thought he'd be a complete bust.
 
W

West_Gunslinger16

Guest
#10
#10
This is quite simple..........

If you want to get get closer to the Finals:

Draft the one you need and develop his talent. This time we freaking need a bigman!

If you want a 60-win season and waste it all by losing in the second round of the playoffs:

Draft the one we don't really need that much. Swingmen or a bunch of guards 6'5 and below.

If you're looking for backup PGs, I recommend getting the guys with experience like:

Keyon Dooling
David Wesley PG/SG
Chucky Atkins
Speedy Claxton
Tony Delk
Afernee Hardaway (MSE?)

I'm already sick of hearing people we should get PG from draft when we can get one from the market from our MLE. Obviously you can't do this on centers. All the good ones are taken.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#11
#11
Well, reading draft express' stuff on him I still like him for us. Also, he was limited on the UConn teams due to their depth and other players on there. I know about most of those numbers.

Sampson I'd be fine with keeping in some role, he's athletic, 6'11", and has shown he's a good rebounder/blocker. Who knows if we actually do though.

I like Delk/Claxton/Dooling/Duhon/Bell/Banks. But with Claxton, he'll command a 5-year MLE deal, and is likely to be re-signed by the Hornets. The rest, nah, except for maybe Wesley, but he'd be at the bottom of choices.
 
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Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#12
#12
why would we need a pg. Its not like Bibby is going to be sitting much. we already have 2 pgs on the bench hopefully just one after TDOS. We don't need to waste that spot on 3 PG when you got Garcia, Artest, Martin all that can handle the ball well and usually do anyway when Bibby isn't it. We should stock up on Big men for summer league and camp and see who pans out.
 
Sptsjunkie

Sptsjunkie

Starter
#13
#13
Really WG?

This is quite simple..........

If you want to get get closer to the Finals:

Draft the one you need and develop his talent. This time we freaking need a bigman!

If you want a 60-win season and waste it all by losing in the second round of the playoffs:

Draft the one we don't really need that much. Swingmen or a bunch of guards 6'5 and below.


Do you actually have anything to back this up? Look at the last few championship teams, how many of them were able to develop big men, not drafted in the top ten?

Spurs:

Duncan - #1 pick
Mohammad - acquired via trade
Nesterovich - acquired via trade
Horry - free agent signing

Pistons:

B. Wallace - acquired via trade
R. Wallace - acquired via trade
A. McDyess - free agent signing

Lakers (over 3 years):

Shaq - free agent signing
Robert Horry - acquired via trade
AC Green - free agent signing
Travis Knight - signing/trade
Horace Grant - free agent signing
Mark Madsen - drafted
Slava Medvidenko - undrafted free agent signing
Samaki Walker - signing/trade

Possible Champs this year:

Dallas:

Dirk - we'll say drafted, but he was a top 10 pick
Desanga Diop - acquired via trade
Eric Dampier - free agent signing
Adriann Griffin - free agent signing

Miami:

Shaq - acquired via trade
Udonis Haslem - undrafted free agent signing
Alonzo Mourning - free agent signing
Antoine Walker - free agent signing
Michael Doleac - signing/trade

So four of these five teams will be NBA champions and exactly 1 total big man out of 23 were drafted by that team outside of the top 10. And Mark Madsen played a very minor role for the Lakers playing alongside Shaq.

So WG, it's not quite so obvious. Stockpiling talent for a trade is a better idea than wasting a draft pick on a bad player.
 
Entity

Entity

Hall of Famer
#14
#14
why would we need a pg. Its not like Bibby is going to be sitting much. we already have 2 pgs on the bench hopefully just one after TDOS. We don't need to waste that spot on 3 PG when you got Garcia, Artest, Martin all that can handle the ball well and usually do anyway when Bibby isn't it. We should stock up on Big men for summer league and camp and see who pans out.
 
Sptsjunkie

Sptsjunkie

Starter
#16
#16
Entity said:
why would we need a pg. Its not like Bibby is going to be sitting much. we already have 2 pgs on the bench hopefully just one after TDOS. We don't need to waste that spot on 3 PG when you got Garcia, Artest, Martin all that can handle the ball well and usually do anyway when Bibby isn't it. We should stock up on Big men for summer league and camp and see who pans out.
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Besides keeping Bibby fresher for the playoffs, we need a contingency plan in case Bibby gets injured. If he misses 40 games this year, there's no way we'll want to rely upon Hart or Price to play starters minutes.
 
K

Kings113

All-Star
#17
#17
While we do have Artest/Garcia/Martin to handle and make plays (Garcia/Artest), you still have to have an actual back-up guard/PG for Bibby. Hart is not the answer, he's good on defense and hustle, but everything else is questionable. We need a guy who can score, play d, pass. Be it Price (if he comes out well)/tradee/FA. Any of Duhon/Banks/Bell/B-Jax would fit that well. Dooling/Delk/Fred Jones are combo guards, but I'd also like one of them for it because of their handling/scoring/defense abilities. Firstly should go after the former four though.

Big men we'll get through possibly the draft and free-agency.
 
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W

West_Gunslinger16

Guest
#18
#18
Sptsjunkie said:
So WG, it's not quite so obvious. Stockpiling talent for a trade is a better idea than wasting a draft pick on a bad player.
Click to expand...
Who do you suggest :confused: ? Trade Bibby, Martin and Miller to Team Wonderland for Puff the Magic Dragon and Bigfoot? Easier said than done, man. And who's the bad player? When Petire drafts a big man, I am confident that man will be better than most big men in the league right now. Petrie has magic hands, remember?
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#19
#19
^^There's no need for the sarcasm, WG. Sptsjunkie has posted valid comments without rancor or sarcasm. You could respond in the same vein.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#20
#20
Sptsjunkie said:
This is quite simple..........

If you want to get get closer to the Finals:

Draft the one you need and develop his talent. This time we freaking need a bigman!

If you want a 60-win season and waste it all by losing in the second round of the playoffs:

Draft the one we don't really need that much. Swingmen or a bunch of guards 6'5 and below.


Do you actually have anything to back this up? Look at the last few championship teams, how many of them were able to develop big men, not drafted in the top ten?

Spurs:

Duncan - #1 pick
Mohammad - acquired via trade
Nesterovich - acquired via trade
Horry - free agent signing

Pistons:

B. Wallace - acquired via trade
R. Wallace - acquired via trade
A. McDyess - free agent signing

Lakers (over 3 years):

Shaq - free agent signing
Robert Horry - acquired via trade
AC Green - free agent signing
Travis Knight - signing/trade
Horace Grant - free agent signing
Mark Madsen - drafted
Slava Medvidenko - undrafted free agent signing
Samaki Walker - signing/trade

Possible Champs this year:

Dallas:

Dirk - we'll say drafted, but he was a top 10 pick
Desanga Diop - acquired via trade
Eric Dampier - free agent signing
Adriann Griffin - free agent signing

Miami:

Shaq - acquired via trade
Udonis Haslem - undrafted free agent signing
Alonzo Mourning - free agent signing
Antoine Walker - free agent signing
Michael Doleac - signing/trade

So four of these five teams will be NBA champions and exactly 1 total big man out of 23 were drafted by that team outside of the top 10. And Mark Madsen played a very minor role for the Lakers playing alongside Shaq.

So WG, it's not quite so obvious. Stockpiling talent for a trade is a better idea than wasting a draft pick on a bad player.
Click to expand...
Good posts.
 
W

West_Gunslinger16

Guest
#21
#21
No were not going to trade somebody. It's almost perfect. A big man is in need. How do you suggest getting good big man by not giving up much? Don't give me the crap "Bibby-Miller for Garnett/Brand". Although it's in the tradition it's time to get serious for sometime.
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
#22
West_Gunslinger16 said:
No were not going to trade somebody. It's almost perfect. A big man is in need. How do you suggest getting good big man by not giving up much? Don't give me the crap "Bibby-Miller for Garnett/Brand". Although it's in the tradition it's time to get serious for sometime.
Click to expand...
How do you know what Petrie is or isn't going to do? It's all unknown. Your guesses are just that - guesses - the same as everyone elses.

Please play nice...
 
Packt

Packt

Starter
#26
#26
Sptsjunkie said:
Besides keeping Bibby fresher for the playoffs, we need a contingency plan in case Bibby gets injured. If he misses 40 games this year, there's no way we'll want to rely upon Hart or Price to play starters minutes.
Click to expand...
Relying on a rookie PG, late pick at that, isn't the answer either. If that scenario occurs our best option would be Hart/Price.

And the list you made proves that championship teams are built around franchise big men. With the exception of Detroit, but their combo of big man is franchise quality.

We don't have that luxury. Whomever we draft we will have to develop, it might as well be a big. Stockpiling players will only lead to players not playing and there is no value in that. Essentially a wasted pick, since they'll end up leaving or be throw-ins (won't make or break a deal).
 
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Gary

Gary

All-Star
#28
#28
This is my wishlist..

#1 Shelden Williams (probally wont be on the board come 19 though)
#2 Patrick O'Bryant (Again, probally wont be on the board)
#3 Shawne Williams (changed my mind a bit on him, if he is available look for Kings to pick him)
#4 Cedrick Simmons (if Simmons is on the board than Williams will be)
#5 Saer Sene (a beast, but probally needs a few years to develop)

Saer Sene is interesting because he reminds pretty much everyone of Diop. Diop has been a bust, but his play as of late has people hoping that he will finally develop. If we draft Sene (which I am 99% sure we wont) he will be a work in progress for about 3-5 years.

Another thing. I would LOVE to draft Novak in round 2. It probally wouldn't take much to get a 2nd rounder (probally a future 2nd round pick) so I say why not. He has size, and can shoot.
 
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6th

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#29
#29
Gary said:
This is my wishlist..

#1 Shelden Williams (probally wont be on the board come 19 though)
#2 Patrick O'Bryant (Again, probally wont be on the board)
#3 Shawne Williams (changed my mind a bit on him, if he is available look for Kings to pick him)
#4 Cedrick Simmons (if Simmons is on the board than Williams will be)
#5 Saer Sene (a beast, but probally needs a few years to develop)

Saer Sene is interesting because he reminds pretty much everyone of Diop. Diop has been a bust, but his play as of late has people hoping that he will finally develop. If we draft Sene (which I am 99% sure we wont) he will be a work in progress for about 3-5 years.

Another thing. I would LOVE to draft Novak in round 2. It probally wouldn't take much to get a 2nd rounder (probally a future 2nd round pick) so I say why not. He has size, and can shoot.
Click to expand...
I don't believe we have a 2nd round pick this year.

After re-reading your post, I may have misunderstood you. Are you saying that we should trade a future 2nd rounder to get a 2nd rounder for this year?
 
Gary

Gary

All-Star
#30
#30
yep :D Meant to say that 2nd rounders are pretty easy to get via trade. We should trade a future 2nd round pick (2007-2010) for a 2nd round pick in this years draft, and use it to get Novak.
 
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