Does Petrie Still Have It?...

[Superman]

Built because he traded for a malcontent(as some people thought) PF who didn't want to come here and signed a Center who came here simply because it was California and close to his home AND we had the cap space to do it.


Chris Webber and Vlade aint' comin back people....

:: sighs prayerfully ::

Those aren't the only moves Petrie made to get us to contention. Far from it, in fact. I don't expect Petrie to just duplicate what he did early on in his tenure here, and all of a sudden we're good again. This isn't "I Dream of Jeannie". He worked hard, put good pieces in good positions, and we were a good team for a significant amount of time. It wasn't luck.

That having been said, I don't have blind allegiance to Geoff Petrie. Some of you might think that since I've been lobbying for him over the past couple of days. I simply think he's proven his worth, and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt for the way this team is currently comprised. Reason being that I don't think this team is a reflection of basketball decisions that Petrie made. I think he has been told what to do the past three years or so, and not because the Maloofs lost confidence in him, but because they had a change of heart and a different agenda than they had in '99. If Geoff starts making "Geoff decisions" and we still aren't improving in the next couple of years, then I yank his player card. But he's built up enough goodwill with me for now, and I don't blame him for the mess this team is in. I blame the Maloofs, the City of Sacramento (not that it's the city's fault that a new arena hasn't been agreed on, but they share the blame, at least partially), and to a smaller extent Eric Musselman and Rick Adelman.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I hope we don't have to wait 3 more years for the upward swing to occur. That would be a five year down cycle.

I think we're looking at 2-3 years at best. This season was just the culmination of what's been going on for the past 4 or 5 years. While every team around us got better in some small way we shed just a little more salary and lost a role player or two. Then it was a star here or there. Now we're paying the ultimate price. I hate to say it but I don't think we've hit rock bottom yet - part of hitting rock bottom is realizing you're there and that's something I think this franchise has failed to do, I'll cite the win the other day as exhibit A.

 

[ParniValjak]

Built because he traded for a malcontent(as some people thought) PF who didn't want to come here and signed a Center who came here simply because it was California and close to his home AND we had the cap space to do it.


Chris Webber and Vlade aint' comin back people....

But you are conviniently forgetting that the the time Vlade was a free agent, Clippers made a huge play for him so if it was a "close to home" excuse you are giving up there, then you are WAY off base.

He could hace returned to LA if that was his reasoning. Instead he came to a franchise that has been as much of a laughing stock as the Clippers at the time.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Those aren't the only moves Petrie made to get us to contention. Far from it, in fact.

They may not have been the only moves, but they were the most important by far; without those two acquisitions, the rest don't matter.

Ryle appears to be saying that Petrie got lucky when it came to Webber and Divac. And I (for a change) am inclined to agree.

But you are conviniently forgetting that the the time Vlade was a free agent, Clippers made a huge play for him so if it was a "close to home" excuse you are giving up there, then you are WAY off base.

Cite?

 

[G_M]

Petrie is by far the BEST GM the franchise has ever had. I think if you look at his body of work most of his moves have had a positive impact on the franchise.

Given cap flexibilty and freedom I think he can position the team to compete at a much higher level. I guess since people feel his major moves were "luck" there's no reason to think he can't be lucky again.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Petrie is by far the BEST GM the franchise has ever had...

Yeah, but that bar's REEEAAL low...

 

[G_M]

Yeah, but that bar's REEEAAL low...

This is true!

 

[kupman]

Petrie is on the short list of the best GMs in the league and the Maloofs are on the short list of the best owners in the NBA - next topic.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Petrie is on the short list of the best GMs in the league...

John Paxon
Joe Dumars
Chris Mullin
Mike D'Antoni
RC Buford
Bryan Colangelo

Those are all guys that I'd rank ahead of Petrie. What is your definition of "short?"

 

[coolhandluke]

Built because he traded for a malcontent(as some people thought) PF who didn't want to come here and signed a Center who came here simply because it was California and close to his home AND we had the cap space to do it.


Chris Webber and Vlade aint' comin back people....

Haha.. this is funny. Petrie got lucky, eh? If that is the case then many "steal" trades in this league can be chalked up to luck. The point is Webber was "available" for any team to take a chance on and he was no dummy player and neither was Petrie who pulled off that trade. I guess the disappointment with recent lacklustre efforts by Petrie has clouded the perception of all the good work he has done. We don't need no Webber or Vlade to become good, there are many ways to become a better squad.

 

[nbrans]

John Paxon
Joe Dumars
Chris Mullin
Mike D'Antoni
RC Buford
Bryan Colangelo

Those are all guys that I'd rank ahead of Petrie. What is your definition of "short?"

MULLIN???

Also, Dumars won a championship, so, good work, but from Darko over Carmelo on he's had a horrific track record.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You're damned right Mullin! Since he took over that job, he has merely:

- Fired Eric Musselman
- Drafted Andris Biedrins (11th pick)
- Re-signed Jason Richardson
- Traded for Baron Davis
- Drafted Monta Ellis (40th pick)
- Hired Don Nelson
- Traded for Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson

He put together the team that has made the playoffs for the first time since HE was playing for them! Mullin is kicking *** and taking names.

 

[G_M]

John Paxon
Joe Dumars
Chris Mullin
Mike D'Antoni
RC Buford
Bryan Colangelo

Those are all guys that I'd rank ahead of Petrie. What is your definition of "short?"

Buford I'd buy for sure, maybe Dumars. Let's see what these other guys can do for more than three or four seasons.

D'Antoni?? He's been GM for 13 months. Unless signing Jalen Rose really knocked your socks off I'm hard pressed to see what he has done. Diaw and Barbosa were signed to extensions but I'm not sure that constitutes anything more than common sense....

 

[nbrans]

You're damned right Mullin! Since he took over that job, he has merely:

- Fired Eric Musselman
- Drafted Andris Biedrins (11th pick)
- Re-signed Jason Richardson
- Traded for Baron Davis
- Drafted Monta Ellis (40th pick)
- Hired Don Nelson
- Traded for Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson

He put together the team that has made the playoffs for the first time since HE was playing for them! Mullin is kicking *** and taking names.

He didn't fire Musselman, he fired Montgomery. You also left off wildly overpaying Derick Fisher, Troy Murphy, Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy. They have no cap space and no real hope of improving, and were just mediocre enough to squeak into the playoffs and miss out on a good draft pick. Not exactly what I call kicking *** and taking names. And crazy to suggest that Mullin's mixed-at-best track record somehow makes him better than Petrie's.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He didn't fire Musselman, he fired Montgomery. You also left off wildly overpaying Derick Fisher, Troy Murphy, Adonal Foyle and Mike Dunleavy. They have no cap space and no real hope of improving, and were just mediocre enough to squeak into the playoffs and miss out on a good draft pick. Not exactly what I call kicking *** and taking names.

May 20 2004
Fired head coach Eric Musselman.

Source: HoopsHype.com

I'm not saying that they're an irrefutable source but, if you can do so, be my guest.

I didn't "leave off" his overpaying of those guys any more than Petrie apologists "leave off" how he grossly overpaid for Miller and Bibby. He's made more good deals than bad ones, in my opinion. And, as far as barely squeaking into the playoffs, at least the Warriors are moving in an forward direction...

 

[nbrans]

Source: HoopsHype.com

I'm not saying that they're an irrefutable source but, if you can do so, be my guest.

I didn't "leave off" his overpaying of those guys any more than Petrie apologists "leave off" how he grossly overpaid for Miller and Bibby. He's made more good deals than bad ones, in my opinion. And, as far as barely squeaking into the playoffs, at least the Warriors are moving in an forward direction...

Ah, you're right on the Musselman thing. But see, he and Petrie will have that in common soon, so it's a wash.

 

[kingsfan101]

Buford I'd buy for sure, maybe Dumars. Let's see what these other guys can do for more than three or four seasons.

D'Antoni?? He's been GM for 13 months. Unless signing Jalen Rose really knocked your socks off I'm hard pressed to see what he has done. Diaw and Barbosa were signed to extensions but I'm not sure that constitutes anything more than common sense....

Think D'Antoni also signed Marcus Banks, a move that hasn't turned out good at all. Moreover, it shall put them over the tax next year, so they might be forced to let go of Marion or Diaw (unless owner agrees to pay tax). That they shall survive despite this is thanks to the move by BC of getting Atlanta's draft pick (assuming it is not top 3).

Even Paxon had a bad move of overpaying for Ben W. this year. Also, he must be regretting trading Tyson Chandler.

As for Dumars, he not only picked Darko over Melo, Bosh and Wade, he gave away Darko and was unable to resign Ben (it might turn out to be good in the long term, but Pistons are not built for long term. Had they not gotten lucky with Webb, they would have taken a big step back this year). He also gave away Evans to Lakers for just a second round pick.

Bottomline, even the best of GMs shall have some bad moves to his name. Petrie has been very good for a long time, and as nbrans pointed out, it's possible other GMs are slightly wary of dealing with him. That said, the bigger concern fans have is that what is the plan of the organization. If the idea is to rebuild, then we should stop spending MLE on players (even if they are good and useful like Salmons), in the hope of making the playoffs each year. While Salmons has played well, he took minutes away from Cisco, Price and Douby, while adding to our cap for the next few years.

 

[BRad1055]

Mr. Slim Citrus....

Is that former WWE wrestler the late Bad News Brown in your picture? Pretty cool. =)

 

[kingsfan101]

Source: HoopsHype.com

I'm not saying that they're an irrefutable source but, if you can do so, be my guest.

I didn't "leave off" his overpaying of those guys any more than Petrie apologists "leave off" how he grossly overpaid for Miller and Bibby. He's made more good deals than bad ones, in my opinion. And, as far as barely squeaking into the playoffs, at least the Warriors are moving in an forward direction...

Yes, we overpaid for Miller and Bibby. At that time though, these were the correct moves.

If I recall correctly, Miller had the same offer from Utah, but chose us, since we had a better chance of winning the ring. As for Bibby, we were trying to win a championship at that time, and it was important to keep the piece that was quite likely the MVP of the series against Dallas and LA.

Could we have gotten these for a slightly lower price? Possibly. However, the aims then were different, and had we won a championship (or more), these would have been worth it.

As for Mullin overpaying his guys, I think the money to Fisher was not a bad idea. Sure he was overpaid, and as much as I dislike him as a former Laker, he is a playoff tested veteran with three rings. Someone like him was required to guide a young and underachieving team. Once they got BD though, he became redundant.

 

[Vlade4GM]

Any of those lottery teams would've picked Darko too with the second pick.

 

[vytzka]

Any of those lottery teams would've picked Darko too with the second pick.

Well, at least Petrie would have never done that

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

That's actually quite succintly put.


Doesn't mean it absolutely can't happen though.

Hell, he's 1-2 with the Kings, as far as 'eras' go...we had the 'Brian Grant/Animal Smith' era that was just 'so-so'...then the 'C-Webb/Vlade' era, that was da' shiznit! And now the 'Ron Artest and a bunch of 6'7 guys that dont know what positions they should REALLY be playing' era. This summer should be one of the defining moments in his managerial career...he's got quite the task on his hands, and it will take nothing short of geniusness to pull off the minor miracle of reconstruction back to contention.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

You're damned right Mullin! Since he took over that job, he has merely:

- Fired Eric Musselman
- Drafted Andris Biedrins (11th pick)
- Re-signed Jason Richardson
- Traded for Baron Davis
- Drafted Monta Ellis (40th pick)
- Hired Don Nelson
- Traded for Al Harrington and Stephen Jackson

He put together the team that has made the playoffs for the first time since HE was playing for them! Mullin is kicking *** and taking names.

I was saying this about Mully and this team BEFORE the trade for Harrington/Jackson...once he pulled off THAT highway robbery of a deal, I thought he should definetely get GM of the year!

 

[Superman]

John Paxon
Joe Dumars
Chris Mullin
Mike D'Antoni
RC Buford
Bryan Colangelo

Those are all guys that I'd rank ahead of Petrie. What is your definition of "short?"

That's definitely a Janet Jackson attitude: What have you done for me lately.

All those guys have done a great job with their teams in the past five years, but Petrie did the same thing all those guys have done here, when he had the go-ahead from ownership. In fact, only two of the GMs you listed have done more than him: Joe Dumars and RC Buford, in winning a championship.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

That's definitely a Janet Jackson attitude: What have you done for me lately.

Funny you'd put it that way: what you see as me having a "Janet Jackson" attitude, I interpret as you having more of a "content to rest on your laurels" (sorry, I can't think of a pop culture comparison fast enough) attitude. To my way of thinking, the way people talk about how great Petrie allegedly still is as a GM by citing what he did six and seven years ago reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once, that said "The older I get, the better I was."

What Petrie did for this team was great, and I remember it fondly, but no, I'm not beholden to any sort of blind faith that he can do it again. What he's done in the past four years or so hasn't impressed me much, if at all and, closed purse strings or not, just because he was great yesterday doesn't mean that he's going to be great tomorrow.

He's lost the benefit of the doubt with me, is what it boils down to.

 

[Ryle]

Funny you'd put it that way: what you see as me having a "Janet Jackson" attitude, I interpret as you having more of a "content to rest on your laurels" (sorry, I can't think of a pop culture comparison fast enough) attitude. To my way of thinking, the way people talk about how great Petrie allegedly still is as a GM by citing what he did six and seven years ago reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once, that said "The older I get, the better I was."

What Petrie did for this team was great, and I remember it fondly, but no, I'm not beholden to any sort of blind faith that he can do it again. What he's done in the past four years or so hasn't impressed me much, if at all and, closed purse strings or not, just because he was great yesterday doesn't mean that he's going to be great tomorrow.

He's lost the benefit of the doubt with me, is what it boils down to.

Totally agree. I think his genius wore off once the 2 players he was able to get(Webb and Vlade) left. Since then he's been treading water and I don't think people realize how important BOTH of those players were to this teams past success.

 

[kupman]

What he's done in the past four years or so hasn't impressed me much, if at all

He helped us make the playoffs 3 of those 4 years. Not to shabby when you consider he has been performing below average relative to previous years.

I will stick with GP unless you have some other genius GM standing-by ready to join the Kings.

 

[nbrans]

What he's done in the past four years or so hasn't impressed me much, if at all

I was pretty impressed by drafting Kevin Martin. The Artest trade was good. Salmons was a good signing. Shareef has been enh, but still a pretty good value for the price.

I mean, I think we all have had our patience tried by waiting for moves that haven't materialized, but short of the Webber trade, which is obviously contentious, I don't know if there are any moves you could point to in the last four years that have been clearly bad, except possibly Jason Hart, and that only cost us a second round pick.

 

[ezekielbear]

The Warriors are going to be pushing a 70 million dollar payroll, are capped out until the end of the 10/11 season...

And are a borderline playoff team...

What's to like?

 

[Superman]

Funny you'd put it that way: what you see as me having a "Janet Jackson" attitude, I interpret as you having more of a "content to rest on your laurels" (sorry, I can't think of a pop culture comparison fast enough) attitude. To my way of thinking, the way people talk about how great Petrie allegedly still is as a GM by citing what he did six and seven years ago reminds me of a t-shirt I saw once, that said "The older I get, the better I was."

What Petrie did for this team was great, and I remember it fondly, but no, I'm not beholden to any sort of blind faith that he can do it again. What he's done in the past four years or so hasn't impressed me much, if at all and, closed purse strings or not, just because he was great yesterday doesn't mean that he's going to be great tomorrow.

He's lost the benefit of the doubt with me, is what it boils down to.

Maybe a GM is only great for five years at a time, then.

I definitely understand your point of view, but to say that guys like Mike D'Antoni and Chris Mullin are better than Geoff Petrie is something I can't understand. They haven't done anything that he didn't do when we were on the way up. And yes, it was several years ago, but it's obvious that the men he answers to have changed his job description drastically. It was, for several years: do what it takes to get us to the top, we don't care if we're paying $25 million in luxury taxes. Now it's: let's keep the payroll manageable, try to get in the playoffs, and let's wait and see what happens with this arena situation.

The reason I give Petrie the benefit of the doubt is because he's shown the ability to do exactly what we want him to do right now. He's only been asked to do it once before, and he came through. It's not like he's been sitting around saying "I am the Great Geoff Petrie, just look at the Webber trade and the Vlade signing, now bow to me!" And you may call those luck, but I considered them to be calculated risks that, along with many other decisions he made, made the Kings an elite team. D'Antoni and Mullin haven't even done that yet. At least Dumars and Buford have won championships. Just because those GMs have better teams right now doesn't mean that they are better than Petrie. I'd take Jerry West over all of them, other than Buford and maybe Colangelo. And the Grizzlies have never been an elite team in the five years he's been there. You can throw Donny Nelson in the mix as well.

I'm content to see what he's going to do, now that we're obviously in need of some magic. It's not blind faith at all. Let's see what happens if he gets the green light to tear down and start over. But there's not too much you can expect out of someone when the mandate from ownership doesn't put a premium on having an elite squad.