DMC's Loyalty

[Larry David]

I keep reading over and over again that Demarcus Cousins will stay here because he values loyalty.

While many players are “loyal to their fans,” you’ll very seldom see a player say, “This franchise is a mess and I don’t have a good chance at competing for the title here, but I’m here for the long term because the folks that fill up 70% of the arena many nights are great.” I wouldn’t bank on this. Over the course of NBA history, even among players that value loyalty, this isn’t realistic.

And it’s not “the franchise” because that’s a logo and a jersey. Instead, players are loyal to the people that make up the franchise. Over time, you can build working relationships with people that create bonds that can serve as a basis for loyalty. This is a real factor, and Cousins does seem to value loyalty.

DMC has been here 5 years. Currently, to whom should we expect him to be loyal?

The 2 different owners of the team?

The 2 different GMs (and counting)?

The 5 coaches?

Or the 48 different players that have suited up for the Kings over the past 5 years?

During the past five years, we’ve been a perpetual turnstile on every front, bad, and dysfunctional. Also, DMC made it very clear that people working for the franchise crossed a line with how they treated his name in public just two months ago. Do you think he’s enjoying his time here right now? Are we sure that “loyalty” is our trump card for retaining his services? Right now, I don’t see it.

We could build loyalty over the next two years before Cousins enters his walk year. This team could be decent, he could have a good time, he may value the people he works with, and that loyalty might be important to Cousins as he weights a lot of factors that include: his ability to compete for a title; the competence of the franchise that will control his rights for the next 4-5 years; the loyalty he has with other players in the league, like his Kentucky teammates.

I totally get and join the hope that we’ll create something to give Cousins a reason to stay and play upon his sense of loyalty to keep him here. This could still happen. I think currently banking upon him staying because he’s a loyal person is just repeating something that doesn’t make much sense to make fans feel better.

 

[IfAt1st]

I agree - I don't think he is "loyal" to the team anymore, after they fired Malone (right after extending Rudy) and drug his name through the mud with the Karl fiasco.

But I also think that the word "loyalty" is actually being used as a combined concept:

DMC's "loyalty" is also tapping into his bullheadedness and ego.
DMC wants to transform sad-sack Sacramento into a winning franchise. He wants it in a bad way.
It would validate so much of his personality and struggles. He doesn't like going the easy way and signing with a winner just to make it a bit more of a winner. He views those guys as cowards/pussies/punks for taking the easy way out. He feels it takes guts, fortitude, stamina, and strength to change around a horrible franchise like Sacramento.

Seriously, Sacramento being so hopeless the past 10 years is the thing keeping him here and "loyal" more than the fans, IMO.
But this deep-seated desire to turn this franchise around is reaching a frustration point as never before, because the team already worked to get where he wants to be and the front office deliberately blew it up, nullifying his efforts and setting the team back (who knows how far).

I can't think of something more stupid for the FO to do - hammering at the base motivation for Demarcus to stay here is the surest way for him to leave to a pasture that doesn't set fire to the fields.

 

[VF21]

I agree - I don't think he is "loyal" to the team anymore, after they fired Malone (right after extending Rudy) and drug his name through the mud with the Karl fiasco.

But I also think that the word "loyalty" is actually being used as a combined concept:

DMC's "loyalty" is also tapping into his bullheadedness and ego.
DMC wants to transform sad-sack Sacramento into a winning franchise. He wants it in a bad way.
It would validate so much of his personality and struggles. He doesn't like going the easy way and signing with a winner just to make it a bit more of a winner. He views those guys as cowards/pussies/punks for taking the easy way out. He feels it takes guts, fortitude, stamina, and strength to change around a horrible franchise like Sacramento.

Seriously, Sacramento being so hopeless the past 10 years is the thing keeping him here and "loyal" more than the fans, IMO.
But this deep-seated desire to turn this franchise around is reaching a frustration point as never before, because the team already worked to get where he wants to be and the front office deliberately blew it up, nullifying his efforts and setting the team back (who knows how far).

I can't think of something more stupid for the FO to do - hammering at the base motivation for Demarcus to stay here is the surest way for him to leave to a pasture that doesn't set fire to the fields.

First of all, we do not know that it was the front office who tied DMC's name to the whole Karl rumor extravaganza.

As far as what's happening right now, I think George Karl has already gone a long ways towards establishing a bond of loyalty between himself and DeMarcus. Bringing the most beloved player in Kings history back as a key player in the front office is also a step in the right direction.

I don't necessarily agree with your rationale behind DMC's reason for loyalty to the Kings and to Sacramento. There is a reason, though, and the clue might be in his relationship with the BBN. I can't think of many players who only played one year of college ball before turning pro and yet inspire such a LOYAL group of followers. The Wildcat faithful are everywhere, touting Cousins' praises and cheering for him at every juncture.

Kings fans, for the most part and with very few exceptions, are also very loyal to Cousins. There's a basis for a lifelong symbiotic relationship, provided the front office doesn't do something stupid to kill it.

 

[IfAt1st]

First of all, we do not know that it was the front office who tied DMC's name to the whole Karl rumor extravaganza.

Yes, we do.

How do we know?
Because this front office did not come out and refute that leak.
All this FO had to do, at any juncture in this (or any other season), was come out publicly in support of their embattled franchise center.

Wanna know how many times they've done that? How many times they've come out and fought for what Demarcus has had to put up with on and off the court?
How many bullcrap technical fouls has this FO protested?
How many times has this FO taken a stand against the refs and the NBA's treatment of Demarcus on the court?
How many leaks and character-attacking reports has this FO refuted?

How many promotional campaigns have they made, touting Demarcus' accomplishments? Remember that deafening silence last year in regards to Boogie's historic snubs at All-Star AND All-NBA team?
Even his year, the FO's statements were anemic and wiffle-waffly re: Cousins All-Star PR campaign and subsequent snub (before Silver made the saving decision).

Why is Brick's posts here (and passionate replies elsewhere in NBA forums) the ONLY place you hear his stats being trumpeted and analytically compared to other greats and put in a historical perspective? (And no, I don't count re-tweeting someone else's tweet as a FO, supportive action)

Why is the franchise mouthpiece (Grant Napear) invariably more likely to complain and tear Cousins down, instead of supporting him and helping build the case that he should be a superstar? (Seriously, Grant (a Kings employee) has personally done more harm to Boogie's reputation than anyone in the world)

Cuz has been on an island his entire career here, with nothing but token, safe support from this and the previous FO.
In fact, he's been thrown to the wolves multiple times (most notably when Westphal lied about Demarcus' trade demand, reneged on his privacy/honesty claim, and threw a hissy-fit publicly when it should have been in-locker-room disagreements, and when this franchise leaked that it was Cousins' camp responsible for the Karl delay).

The fact that his FO has NEVER come to Demarcus defense when his reputation and character have been attacked is the reality of the situation.
They have proven they don't have Demarcus' back. And they fired the only guy (Malone) who did.
I wouldn't have ANY loyalty to an employer that repeatedly throws you under the bus, never comes to your defense or supports you (when its not easy to do so), and has their PR attack-dog (Napear) on constant hyper-critical mode against you.
And I know you aren't naive enough to believe they couldn't muzzle Napear's blatant Demarcus-bashing if they had wanted to.

 

[VF21]

Yes, we do.

How do we know?
Because this front office did not come out and refute that leak.

Refusal to acknowledge a rumor does not validate said rumor. I'm not even gonna try to argue with you any more on this point.

As far as Napear goes, I sometimes think he intentionally bashes players just to play devil's advocate and to get fans jumping to said player's defense. But, for the most part, I consider Grant Napear on his radio show as nothing more than casual entertainment. I take nothing he says as gospel.

The way you always look for reasons to promote your agenda of the front office vs. DMC, one would suspect you're actually rooting for the worst case scenario and I want no part of that kind of lunacy.

 

[IfAt1st]

Did you even take 2 minutes to read all the examples I gave that support Demarcus' belief that the FO doesn't have his back, before you questioned my intent and wrote it all off as "lunacy"?

 

[Larry David]

Ifat1st - You raise a good point that DMC has not checked out and wants this to work. In my view, there is a distinction between: (1) old school commitment and not running for the hills when things turn bad and you are under contract; and (2) when you have a lot of control over where you'll go heading into your walk year and total control if you become a free agent, voluntarily committing another 4-5 years in a lesser situation out of a compulsion to turn "sad-sack Sacramento into a winner." I think finishing what you started is a real factor, but you've got to be close to what the other suitors can offer.

VF21

Not to rehash the thread that just closed, but I don't think it's at all necessary that a Kings employee be the source of the DMC camp false story. (I do think it's reasonable for DMC to assume that may have occurred - which would be relevant; or that it happened -- more so). When the stories ran that DMC was holding up the Karl hire and the ownership / front office knew those stories were false, the owner and team should have quickly knocked them down. More so, after the "God's plan" post game that put DMC in the national media spotlight. Therefore, even if somebody outside the franchise started the mess, DMC can reasonably blame the team for "crossing a line" when they failed to quickly clear his name and quash the issue. It's the failure to knock down, not simply acknowledge the story.

I love Vlade. But, DMC wasn't between 1999 and 2004. I fail to see how bringing him in as a rookie executive makes DMC loyal to Sacramento. If Vlade now helps build a monster of a team for DMC, sure. But, that's my point. Right, now the team hasn't offered up much that would inspire loyalty.

I agree that DMC has a cadre of loyal Kentucky fans who only saw him play for one year, and he loves those fans back. I'm sure there were posters on UK boards hoping he would come back for another year of college because he would be loyal to the program and UK fans. The benifits of signing with the Wizards or Heat isn't as strong as going pro, but the point is having loyal loving fans only get you so far. Magic fans told themselves that Shaq and Dwight would surely stay because they would be loyal to the franchise that treated them well and got them to the finals. Loyalty is a factor, but not THE factor and currently the team hasn't given much DMC to value.

 

[Larry David]

I think Karl and Vlade could give DMC reasons to be HOPEFUL that yet another iteration of the Kings will be successful, but currently we have not provided him much that would make him LOYAL.

The same is true for the call to turn the roster over yet again. DMC is averaging 10 new teammates each season. If we bring in a bunch of new guys and make the playoffs, that's great and badly needed progress.

If we change another 5+ guys and still don't make the playoffs, why is DMC loyal to a roster when the longest tenured King keeps complaining that he wasn't traded each fall and February?

That's what I'm trying to get at.

 

[The Hammer]

I agree - I don't think he is "loyal" to the team anymore, after they fired Malone (right after extending Rudy) and drug his name through the mud with the Karl fiasco.

But I also think that the word "loyalty" is actually being used as a combined concept:

DMC's "loyalty" is also tapping into his bullheadedness and ego.
DMC wants to transform sad-sack Sacramento into a winning franchise. He wants it in a bad way.
It would validate so much of his personality and struggles. He doesn't like going the easy way and signing with a winner just to make it a bit more of a winner. He views those guys as cowards/pussies/punks for taking the easy way out. He feels it takes guts, fortitude, stamina, and strength to change around a horrible franchise like Sacramento.

Seriously, Sacramento being so hopeless the past 10 years is the thing keeping him here and "loyal" more than the fans, IMO.
But this deep-seated desire to turn this franchise around is reaching a frustration point as never before, because the team already worked to get where he wants to be and the front office deliberately blew it up, nullifying his efforts and setting the team back (who knows how far).

I can't think of something more stupid for the FO to do - hammering at the base motivation for Demarcus to stay here is the surest way for him to leave to a pasture that doesn't set fire to the fields.

I largely agree with bolded, for sure. He wants the challenge. He just needs to see some competence to give him a sense that people are respecting his loyalty. He's been extremely forgiving thus far. At a certain point, to maintain his dignity, he'll have to leave.

It's ALL about principles with this man. I've always maintained that he is a highly principled person, meaning money doesn't drive him, fame doesn't drive him, if you look closely, a set of core principles drives him. This is one reason I have such admiration for him. And anyone motivated by principles understands there are sacrifices that inevitable need to be made to stay true to those principles. When being in Sacramento and continuing to be loyal to the Kings violates his core principles, he'll be gone, and there will be virtually nothing anyone will be able to do to stop it. It'll never be about money, nor fame alone. But glory. True glory. The kind only people of high integrity deserve. That is what he wants, and I believe what he will end up deserving, and getting. I believe he will then give that glory to God. Sorry to get religious on you all, but I very much think this is the core driving principle in DMC's life.

 

[VF21]

Larry David - Do I think the front office should have said something? Yes. Do I think failure to do so means they were guilty? Nope.

As far as Vlade goes, it's not his executive experience that matters. It's his demeanor, his enthusiasm, his knowledge of the game and the position of center, his heart, etc. I'm certain Vlade will do everything he can to help DMC.

I honestly think we're all spending way too much time trying to read between the lines and analyze every little nuance of DMC's emotional state at whatever point in time. He's a mercurial person and he wears his emotions on his sleeve. But at the end of the day, he's a basketball player. It's his life. It's who he is and what he does. And he'll do whatever it takes to keep doing it. He is, one might say, ultimately loyal to the game. Right now, he has a lucrative contract with the Sacramento Kings to keep doing what he loves. As long as the Kings can keep from shooting themselves in the foot any further, it's my feeling that DMC will want to honor his commitment and stay a King. If, however, we hadn't brought George Karl on board and were continuing to look like a rudderless ship in a typhoon, I think Cousins' agent might have already lowered the boom.

I am not a pessimist by nature. I try to look on the bright side. What I'm seeing from Boogie lately is that he's happier than he was during the Corbin time. I think his faith is being restored. And I'll continue to look for the positive aspects.

I don't begrudge those who want to look at things differently. My only complaint is when they try to make their opinion the only one worth considering, which is why I responded to this in the first place.

 

[VF21]

I largely agree with bolded, for sure. He wants the challenge. He just needs to see some competence to give him a sense that people are respecting his loyalty. He's been extremely forgiving thus far. At a certain point, to maintain his dignity, he'll have to leave.

It's ALL about principles with this man. I've always maintained that he is a highly principled person, meaning money doesn't drive him, fame doesn't drive him, if you look closely, a set of core principles drives him. This is one reason I have such admiration for him. And anyone motivated by principles understands there are sacrifices that inevitable need to be made to stay true to those principles. When being in Sacramento and continuing to be loyal to the Kings violates his core principles, he'll be gone, and there will be virtually nothing anyone will be able to do to stop it. It'll never be about money, nor fame alone. But glory. True glory. The kind only people of high integrity deserve. That is what he wants, and I believe what he will end up deserving, and getting. I believe he will then give that glory to God. Sorry to get religious on you all, but I very much think this is the core driving principle in DMC's life.

I see things pretty much the same way. Bottom line, I hope Vivek and the rest of the owners can see what so many of us are seeing, even if our perceptions differ.

 

[VF21]

I think Karl and Vlade could give DMC reasons to be HOPEFUL that yet another iteration of the Kings will be successful, but currently we have not provided him much that would make him LOYAL.

The same is true for the call to turn the roster over yet again. DMC is averaging 10 new teammates each season. If we bring in a bunch of new guys and make the playoffs, that's great and badly needed progress.

If we change another 5+ guys and still don't make the playoffs, why is DMC loyal to a roster when the longest tenured King keeps complaining that he wasn't traded each fall and February?

That's what I'm trying to get at.

Okay, that makes more sense. Thanks for clarifying. Our views may not be as far apart as I first thought.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

I keep reading over and over again that Demarcus Cousins will stay here because he values loyalty.

While many players are “loyal to their fans,” you’ll very seldom see a player say, “This franchise is a mess and I don’t have a good chance at competing for the title here, but I’m here for the long term because the folks that fill up 70% of the arena many nights are great.” I wouldn’t bank on this. Over the course of NBA history, even among players that value loyalty, this isn’t realistic.

And it’s not “the franchise” because that’s a logo and a jersey. Instead, players are loyal to the people that make up the franchise. Over time, you can build working relationships with people that create bonds that can serve as a basis for loyalty. This is a real factor, and Cousins does seem to value loyalty.

DMC has been here 5 years. Currently, to whom should we expect him to be loyal?

The 2 different owners of the team?

The 2 different GMs (and counting)?

The 5 coaches?

Or the 48 different players that have suited up for the Kings over the past 5 years?

During the past five years, we’ve been a perpetual turnstile on every front, bad, and dysfunctional. Also, DMC made it very clear that people working for the franchise crossed a line with how they treated his name in public just two months ago. Do you think he’s enjoying his time here right now? Are we sure that “loyalty” is our trump card for retaining his services? Right now, I don’t see it.

We could build loyalty over the next two years before Cousins enters his walk year. This team could be decent, he could have a good time, he may value the people he works with, and that loyalty might be important to Cousins as he weights a lot of factors that include: his ability to compete for a title; the competence of the franchise that will control his rights for the next 4-5 years; the loyalty he has with other players in the league, like his Kentucky teammates.

I totally get and join the hope that we’ll create something to give Cousins a reason to stay and play upon his sense of loyalty to keep him here. This could still happen. I think currently banking upon him staying because he’s a loyal person is just repeating something that doesn’t make much sense to make fans feel better.

newbs, amateurs and whatever you want to call these clowns in the FO. i got ripped for calling em that but look at the body of work. excellente`!

cuz is GONE if the donkey doodoo ain't fixed in 2 years. we can reminiscence over those 20 rebound games when he's playing for spoelstra and riley. people who value what a true big man can bring.

 

[gunks]

The FO needs to go a long way in redeeming themselves with both the fans and Cousins. Vlade was a step in the right direction. I wouldnt be surprised if he reaches out to the big fella and they become close.....Vlade had that rep when he played for us, his value as a locker room guy was off the charts. Everybody loves them some Vlade.

I agree that he probably isnt feeling too loyal to the FO. They have been nothing but slimeballs. Well, we have one slimeball out of the picture, another might follow, and unfortunately the third slimeball owns the team (and here we all though we were past that when the Magoofs kicked rocks). But I also think that he really does want to stick around and win here in Sac.

Any other young superstar would have demanded a trade by now. It is funny that a player as hot headed as Cousins has shown saintly patience in this regard. But yeah, we need to be in the playoffs by next season and a contender by the time his contract is up, or he is out of here. We have a great coach, and a good nucleus. We just need the FO to be less OUTRAGEOUSLY INCOMPETENT and we could have something here pretty soon.

 

[rainmaker]

There's two things IMO which Cuz values above all else.

One, loyalty. He is a loyal guy. He's spoken a number of times about his loyalty to this city and wanting to place it back on the NBA map. It's not lost on me he hasn't said that since Malone got canned though.

And two, winning. He can't stomach losing, it eats at him. He's spoken a number of times about all he want to do is win.

So, he may be loyal, I don't doubt that, but he also wants to win more than anything. And that's really the issue, where and when those two priorities intersect. At some point, winning is either going to validate the trust and loyalty he's given this organization or the repeated losing will negate any loyalty he has. If KG can leave Minn, Cuz can leave Sac. He actually said when in Boston he regrets not forcing his way out earlier, but it was due to his loyalty and love of Minn that he stayed.

Right now IMO we're teetering on Cuz feeling this organization isn't loyal to him. Talk is cheap, in sports, in life. Put up or shut up. We have every opportunity to have a strong off season, right the ship, get to the playoffs next year and reward Cuz's loyalty by proving we value winning above all else and not only value it, but know how to ****ing do it. There's also plenty of opportunity to screw this thing up this summer and miss out on the playoffs next year. We'll just have to wait and see but Cuz saying he's loyal in year 2 or year 3 is a little different than in year 5 with what's transpired this season.

Bottom line from what I see is while Cuz is loyal, he won't be loyal to a perennial loser much longer, as in we have a year, maybe two to not only get into the playoffs but to make some noise when we get there.

 

[Tyndel]

Larry David - Do I think the front office should have said something? Yes. Do I think failure to do so means they were guilty? Nope.

I think his point is they were guilty of failing to say anything no matter who was to blame.

 

[SacTownKid]

Well, hopefully he understands the loyalty of Kings fans to him, because that might trump all at the end of the day. He might find himself in a much different boat with a different fan base under some of the same circumstances he's faced, caused, or in some way been involved with in Sacramento.