Comments on IT trade by PDA
- Thread starter sdballer
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NOTE: I moved this into its own thread so we don't keep going over the same stuff in a bunch of different threads.
See more at: http://cowbellkingdom.com/sacrament...n-to-deal-isaiah-thomas/#sthash.ENLUT4rx.dpuf
See more at: http://cowbellkingdom.com/sacrament...n-to-deal-isaiah-thomas/#sthash.ENLUT4rx.dpuf
Thanks.
Livinthedream
All-Star
This is what the majority of us assumed this IT thing was about. Chemistry and money. Not a judgement on his talent.
roasthawg
Starter
For sure... I think he's a great signing for Phoenix, perfect fit for that team and system. Great price too... for them. Not a fit for what we're trying to build here.
Heuge
Starter
I get that and I can buy that as a fan. But for the love of Pete, get something in return for this asset. Do it earlier if you have too...
Yes. Did they not realize these things at the trade deadline?
I think some forget that IT's salary was 900,000. It would have been very difficult to get value back for him with that salary. But what am I saying, so many of the posters on here are experts who should be running these teams.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
There were rumors before the deadline, that he was trying to find a deal. Nothing worked out. All you can do is ask and try. He's been doing that all along
By the apparent lack of serious interest by other GMs in acquiring IT, I think it's pretty clear that most of the teams in the league didn't have a burning need for an undersized shoot-first guard. We can argue/debate this forever, but the proof is right there. Of all the supposed demand, he only met with one front office to discuss his future.
You can swap for a young guy you like better. Get a draft pick. Package with other contracts. Yes it's easier to make these claims than to do it, but for all of the new aggressiveness of our FO, it feels like we sell low on assets.
Supply AND DEMAND. There has been very little demand for anything in a Kings uniform that doesn't have the #15 on the front. Our team has been crap with a capital C. If you're one of the other 29 GMs, you know you can pretty much lowball a team that only had 28 wins and isn't willing to move their only real asset.
Heuge
Starter
I'm really tired of excuses. We have been offering excuses for the last 10 years of inept front office management. A player received a 4year/24M deal, that's many millions of want. Surely the FO could of, rather, should have found something.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
I understand your frustration. However, it doesn't make sense to include this completely new ownership and front office with what happened before. The slate was wiped clean with a new start about 14 months ago.
Sit tight and have some fun with this
Two different front offices require two different approaches to ineptness.
Even I, the most optimistic of optimists, ran out of excuses for what we watched from the day Webber was traded...
The new front office may also be inept. BUT we don't know that for sure quite yet. We can't judge them by what Petrie and the Maloofs did. It's like following an older sibling in school and being judged by his/her performance instead of your own.
Swaze
Bench
How do you know they didn't try? You seem to want to indicate in so many posts that PDA is either lazy or a step behind yet this is the same guy that pulled off two huge trades during the early part of last season. He gutted the entire roster in a small amount of time so I don't think he's afraid to pull the trigger if something good was there.
The 900K salary was clearly a hurdle in training IT during the season and in order to get something they wanted they would have had to package some junk with IT.....obviously the other teams did not want the junk contract(s). I also think that they wanted to give 'The Big 3' a few months to play together and see if Thomas would grow into his role as the starying PG and defer more to Cousins and Gay.
As well as IT was playing last year and how quickly he developed into a 20/6 player you pretty much had to let him play out the season to see if he could further develop into what they wanted. The only way you knew what he could be was by watching him play for a while.
I'm not arguing it's easy to move our crap pieces. It's why I scoff at the belief we are going to be much better in the next 1-2 years. But I don't buy that it would have been so difficult to move IT. Look at a team like Phoenix last year who moved a bunch of pieces (many worse than him) to improve.
I understand your frustration. However, it doesn't make sense to include this completely new ownership and front office with what happened before. The slate was wiped clean with a new start about 14 months ago.
Sit tight and have some fun with this
Agree but in my opinion this new front office has shown their fair share of ineptitude in 14 months.
We'll just have to agree to disagree, at least for now. I think they're trying very hard to win at Texas Hold Em with a deck of Old Maid cards. Face it. A lot of the guys on the team when PDA took over wouldn't even be close to the NBA in any other town.
Thank you. That's a very important point I think people tend to overlook. (I think there's a typo there, though. Didn't you mean to say "trading IT" and not "training IT"?
Livinthedream
All-Star
I'm curious as to what people think we could have gotten back for IT that would have improved the team. We don't even know how other teams valued IT. The Suns could have very well overpaid for IT. IT visited one team and received one offer that we know of. All from Phoenix. They could have been bidding against themselves.
Swaze
Bench
Or it could be that you are just one of those guys that has a problem with just about every move his teams front office makes. It's the nature of being a fan and every team has a large portion of it's fan base that are seemingly always unhappy with management.
Laker Fans right now are irate with their management. Same for Heat fans. Same for Pacer fans after last season.
If you were the GM of the Sacramento Kings it would be a very safe bet that you'd have guys just like you on forums like this one bashing every move you make. Nature of the beast.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
If you analyze what anyone does, on a nearly daily basis,...virtually non stop for 14 months, you're bound to find multiple disappointments. This is chess, not checkers. Moves will look like a 'waste' sometimes.
Is it possible that there is some light at the end of this rather short tunnel? Something tells me that you're going to be a very excited fan here in the near future. I'm not sure what it will be, but it's going to be an amazing day! Just promise that you'll have fun with it for a while there after
Swaze
Bench
Thank you. That's a very important point I think people tend to overlook. (I think there's a typo there, though. Didn't you mean to say "trading IT" and not "training IT"?
LOL yes it was a typo but kind of ironic typo because I think in some regard they were maybe trying to or at least hoping to TRAIN him into the PG they wanted him to be. Unfortunately for them and really for all of us, Thomas just wasn't going to allow himself to be that kind of player.
I don't have any reason to think PDA is lazy. I just don't agree with the moves he is making supporting a long term winning vision.
None of us know if they tried or not. Or if they have a good vision for the team. Or what offers they turn down. If we only debated stuff we knew happened behind closed doors, it would be a pretty lonely board. In my fan-based opinion, I can only judge them by the moves they make. And those moves seems to lack a clear vision. He did gut the team but it's not like we massively improved the team. I think people had such a negative view of the last regime that everything seemed like a huge win. Not sure we have a lot more talent and it's more expensive.
And maybe you are one of those guys that just defends every decision their front office makes. Now after 10 years of losing, which of us is more justified in their bias?
And there's the point. You and a number of others are assuming they haven't been trying. I and a number of others assume exactly the opposite. Every team in the league tries to make moves that no one hears about because they never come to fruition. It's part and parcel of the business. We Kings fans have become so desperate for something good to happen these past 10 years that we all fell into the microanalyzing trap.
I think we all - including you, me, Swaze, etc. - want the same thing. We're all looking to end up at the same spot. It's just how we are going to get there that isn't clear right now.
I'm urging a bit more patience for the simple reason it does no harm to keep an open mind. But that's me - or at least it was me before I became cynical and bitter. I'm done with that. I've loved this team since 1985 and NBA basketball for over 20 years before that. It's wonderful to still have a team to debate about...the rest for me is just small stuff right now.
I guess I'm just wanting everybody to get along, for a lot of the sniping and bitterness to be over. This board used to be an incredible fun place to be. We're drifting back in the right direction and I guess I'm anxious to ensure it keeps going that way.
It's all good. I'll get off my soapbox now.
I LOVE THIS TEAM!
Swaze
Bench
No, the Landry signing was not good. I still think they could have got a little more from Phoenix considering the sheer abundance of young talent that Phoenix has.
Most of the other moves were the right moves at the time. McLemore pick, Rudy trade, D-Will trade, R-Mac pick, Stauskas pick, etc. were all decent to good moves in context.
Your bias is unjustified because you hold 10 years of failure against a new regime that has had ownership of the team for literally one calendar year. That's not just bias that's irrational.
A reasonable person would not expect the compounded mistakes of one regime for 9 years to be fixed in one year by a new regime.
If you analyze what anyone does, on a nearly daily basis,...virtually non stop for 14 months, you're bound to find multiple disappointments. This is chess, not checkers. Moves will look like a 'waste' sometimes.
Is it possible that there is some light at the end of this rather short tunnel? Something tells me that you're going to be a very excited fan here in the near future. I'm not sure what it will be, but it's going to be an amazing day! Just promise that you'll have fun with it for a while there after
I love chess. PDA ain't playing it.
In 14 months we've heard they were going to focus on defense while bringing in non-defenders. On team play, while bringing in poor passers. We've heard they were going to spend wisely while rebuilding then pushing us to the luxury tax. Now we want to focus on playing faster so we let IT go.
For all the bashing of the players PDA managed to expel:
-Evans made big strides at the end of the year
-Vasquez and Patterson were both pursued by multiple teams and signed bigger contracts than they had before
-Salmon's contract turned into 2 nice pieces for Toronto
-Hayes still sucked but is expiring
-Thornton we're still paying in 2 players
-We ate Jimmer's deal
Mostly we just swapped expirings while adding money in Gay, Landry and Williams.
Those aren't chess moves.
No, the problem is when anyone here complains about the new regime, we're automatically assumed to be lumping them with the old. It is possible to be dissapointed with both.
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