Comment on the Gasol trade

Glenn

Glenn

Hall of Famer
I guess some of us aren't alone in our feelings about this.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2008/basketball/nba/02/08/popovich.grizzlies/index.html?eref=si_nba


Grizzlies GM Chris Wallace went on the offensive against his critics on Thursday, calling the unattributed criticism of the Pau Gasol trade from other general managers "pillow talk" and daring any league executives to go on the record against the deal. Before Friday night's game against the Knicks, Spurs president and head coach Gregg Popovich did just that.

"What they did in Memphis is beyond comprehension," said Popovich. "There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense. I just wish I had been on a trade committe that oversees NBA trades. I'd like to elect myself to that committee. I would have voted no to the L.A. trade."

When told that Wallace had challenged executives to criticize the deal publicly, Popovich replied, "Well, there you go. I'm on the record."
 
yeah... i kinda agree with pop... that trade was too lopsided to be legit...
 
Not saying Popovich is wrong about how lop sided it is, but geez have a little dignity; does he really want to be known as the whiner? I guess he already is known as that though since he's always the first guy to complain to the league office about every single little thing. He would've done the same thing for Gasol if the opportunity arose.
 
I'm not sure we want to see a panel approving trades and such things... the NBA shouldn't go socialist. :)

Teams rise and fall and are motivated by various things when considering trades. This particular one wouldn't even have been possible had Kwame Brown not been so overpaid in the first place.

And of course players are going to find "good" teams more appealing to go to than bad teams. And certain cities are going to be more appealing as well... LA, New York, Chicago, etc... big markets. It's just reality. As a fan of a smaller market team you just have to realize you are faced with these disadvantages.

So yeah, while I think this trade was incredibly lop-sided from the Grizzlies standpoint (although Grizz fans in general seem to be pretty happy about it), I'm not in favor of trying to legislate the problem away.
 
Variant said:
I'm not sure we want to see a panel approving trades and such things... the NBA shouldn't go socialist. :)

Teams rise and fall and are motivated by various things when considering trades. This particular one wouldn't even have been possible had Kwame Brown not been so overpaid in the first place.

And of course players are going to find "good" teams more appealing to go to than bad teams. And certain cities are going to be more appealing as well... LA, New York, Chicago, etc... big markets. It's just reality. As a fan of a smaller market team you just have to realize you are faced with these disadvantages.

So yeah, while I think this trade was incredibly lop-sided from the Grizzlies standpoint (although Grizz fans in general seem to be pretty happy about it), I'm not in favor of trying to legislate the problem away.
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Lets also not forget his Spurs purposely tanking which netted them Duncan.
 
Freakout said:
Lets also not forget his Spurs purposely tanking which netted them Duncan.
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I guess at the very least you could argue that it makes the league look kinda bad when such tactics happen (along with incredibly lop-sided trades that make no sense).

I don't things need to be regulated, but it would be nice to see the additional scrutiny and criticism be enough to discourage such things in the future. Fat chance though I guess. :)

I hope I never get to the point where I absolutely believe that the odds of my team ever winning it all are just too slim and we're all really just feeder teams for the big market ones. I'll probably stop being a fan right about then.
 
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Well, before this gets going too far:

All those opposed: Popovich is apparently not a fan of the trade last week that sent Pau Gasol to the Los Angeles Lakers.

In return for Gasol, a former All-Star, the Grizzlies received guard Javaris Crittenton and former first-round choice Kwame Brown, generally regarded as a draft bust, as well as two future first-round selections.

“The L.A. move is great for L.A.,” Popovich said. “What they were thinking in Memphis is beyond comprehension.”

Speculation abounds that Memphis owner Michael Heisley pushed the move to cut salary in anticipation of selling the team.

“There should be a trade committee that can scratch all trades that make no sense,” Popovich said, tongue planted firmly in cheek.
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http://www.mysanantonio.com/sports/...tories/MYSA020908_SpursNotes.en.a3d3fe36.html

The tongue in cheek portion was a significant omission in the SI article. :)
 
So says the Bill Belichick of basketball. If this is the case the Spurs should be investigated for tanking to land Tim Duncan. Charles Barkley even said so. He played against them that season and knew they "weren't giving it their all" and publicly called them out for "tanking". Barkley may be a loud mouth fool but I doubt he's a liar. In fact, he keeps it very real, even when he trashes my Laker team.

Robert Horry tries to hurt and possibly injure the opposing teams star pg, where were his morals then? What about when the Lakers traded away Shaq for Odom, Butler, and Grant? Almost everyone in the league at the time thought it was majorly lopsided. His comment "thank god they broke up the Soviet Union" or something to that effect just shows how happy he was that the Lakers made that trade. Where were his morals when the Lakers traded away Caron Butler for Kwame Brown? That really didn't make sense to anyone. Baron Davis was basically given away for free? How come nobody crying foul? The Minne/Boston trade? Spurs traded away Scola for nothing. Should they be investigated?

First off, player contracts are property, and it is a business. Deals are made all the time that are about business and have nothing to do with basketball, or skill, or value as a player. The Spurs have done this themselves, so to act as if there is something fishy about Pau to the Lakers is just plain hypocritical.

Gasol was whining and sulking- so they traded him. They did not find a deal of comparable player value, but they do not have to. All they have to do is make a deal that abides by the CBA and they did. They got for him the biggest expiring deal they could to clear as much salary as possible. That is their right to do this for business purposes. The Lakers made a reasonable offer for what the goal of the Grizzlies was- to get rid of the financial obligation. Pau is so soft and wimpy and of no value- like people claim on here- then why any claim that there is something amiss with regards to this trade.

And I don't care if West consults for Memphis or not-- you do not think that teams that have relationships are more likely to deal with each other- that GM's who know each other and are on more friendly terms are more likely to work out deals than those that can not stand each other. You think talks between GM's who played together are coincidences? You don't think it benefits bewteen guys like RC, Sam, and Kevin?

Teams are just mad because they did not get in on the action. They look and think- Wow, we could have had Pau. But Memphis is under no obligation to advertise to the entire NBA what they are doing or what their asking price is? They can take back whatever they want from whomever they want, as long as it abides by the rules. It looks kind of stupid for a team to gripe who traded the contract of a retiring Danny Ferry to get 2 players about uneven deals.
 
Freakout said:
Lets also not forget his Spurs purposely tanking which netted them Duncan.
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Many people also believe the lottery is rigged. So there you go. I've read that the coin flips before the lottery were corrupt (if the winner was LA, esp). I've heard that the envelope draw in the initial lottery was rigged to ensure Ewing went to NY instead of Indy. I've heard that Orlando getting their only ball in the drum (1993) chosen was corrupt (ultimately paired Shaq with Penny). I've heard that Duncan going to SA instead of the pathetic Nuggets was suspect. I've heard that something is amiss when the worst team in the league rarely gets the top overall pick these days.

People love conspiracies. Some even think the moon landing was one.
 
May I call you PGB, PauGasolsbeard?

Most sports allow the Commissioner to take action when something happens that is not in the interests of the particular sport. Certainly, as a business move, teams can do what is legal. Is it good for the league though that the Griz emasculate themselves and get nothing in return? I don't think so.

Griz don't have to advertise the availability of any player they want to unload but why wouldn't they? Don't they want the best deal? It is bad business NOT to get the best deal and to get such, you need to shop around. I will bet the Kings could have put together a nice deal if given the opportunity. Heck, Artest could be part of it just for starters and by all the collective wisdom of the people on this forum, he will opt out of his contract this summer. Throw in SAR and you have a deal.

I seldom if ever look for conspiracies. Take my word for it that if a conspiracy is brought up on this forum and it is of interest to me, I try to downplay it. In this case I think there is a conspiracy. Laugh as you might, I along with the rest of the world outside of LA believe something stunk back in 2002.

So, in my mind, I have cried foul on something that has occurred in the NBA TWICE! Both times they operated to the benefit of the Lakers.

Finally, I'm not even a Lakers hater. This may seem shocking to hear from a Kings fan but I don't begrudge them their successes. Except twice. This is just an opinion and I can prove nothing. That is something I will freely admit. It just stinks. Take off your Lakers' glasses for a moment and look at the deal. Weren't you thrilled when the trade happened? Didn't it make you think the Lakers could win another championship? This was incredibly one sided and all the convoluted discussion of expirings and such will not convince me that something stinks and whatever it is, it is not good for the rest of the NBA.

And, welcome. That was a great note.
 
Gargamel said:
Many people also believe the lottery is rigged. So there you go. I've read that the coin flips before the lottery were corrupt (if the winner was LA, esp). I've heard that the envelope draw in the initial lottery was rigged to ensure Ewing went to NY instead of Indy. I've heard that Orlando getting their only ball in the drum (1993) chosen was corrupt (ultimately paired Shaq with Penny). I've heard that Duncan going to SA instead of the pathetic Nuggets was suspect. I've heard that something is amiss when the worst team in the league rarely gets the top overall pick these days.

People love conspiracies. Some even think the moon landing was one.
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These are good examples of the kinds of conspiracies that I absolutely disagree with.
 
Glenn said:
Griz don't have to advertise the availability of any player they want to unload but why wouldn't they? Don't they want the best deal? It is bad business NOT to get the best deal and to get such, you need to shop around. I will bet the Kings could have put together a nice deal if given the opportunity. Heck, Artest could be part of it just for starters and by all the collective wisdom of the people on this forum, he will opt out of his contract this summer. Throw in SAR and you have a deal.
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How far over the L Tax threshold would the Kings have been if that trade was made? Heisley said the Bulls didn't want to pay it, so how do we know Sac would have? Would Sac re-sign Bibby to a large extension if they got Pau (that would add to the final bill).
 
Gargamel said:
How far over the L Tax threshold would the Kings have been if that trade was made? Heisley said the Bulls didn't want to pay it, so how do we know Sac would have? Would Sac re-sign Bibby to a large extension if they got Pau (that would add to the final bill).
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The Kings are under the luxury tax unlike the Lakers. If we assume that the value of the traded players is close to equal as the salary cap rules require, they would have remained under the salary cap.

My point had more to do with whether the deal was offered to the Kings and whether it made good sense for the Griz to let everyone know Gasol was available and let everyone have a shot at making an offer. It is up to the Kings to decide whether they want to pay any luxury tax.

For instance as the Kings stand now, does it make sense for them to tell the other 29 teams that Artest is available or just a choice few? I doubt if Bibby will be around too much longer. His play has been less than inspiring. He can't shoot like he used to and with that skill on the wane, he doesn't offer much. We have two young pgs on the team if you don't count Douby.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest, how happy are you that the Lakers made this trade?
 
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Glenn said:
The Kings are under the luxury tax unlike the Lakers. If we assume that the value of the traded players is close to equal as the salary cap rules require, they would have remained under the salary cap.

My point had more to do with whether the deal was offered to the Kings and whether it made good sense for the Griz to let everyone know Gasol was available and let everyone have a shot at making an offer. It is up to the Kings to decide whether they want to pay any luxury tax.

For instance as the Kings stand now, does it make sense for them to tell the other 29 teams that Artest is available or just a choice few? I doubt if Bibby will be around too much longer. His play has been less than inspiring. He can't shoot like he used to and with that skill on the wane, he doesn't offer much. We have two young pgs on the team if you don't count Douby.

On a scale of 1 to 10 with 10 being the highest, how happy are you that the Lakers made this trade?
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We don't have definitive proof of this either way, but I'd be pretty surprised if LA and CHI were the only two who knew Pau was on the block. GMs call around, after all... It's their job. If they didn't, then they all dropped the ball and that's on them.

I'm just using the Kings hypothetical to estimate if they could've indeed beat a 9 mill ExC (for an owner who is about to bolt). If the Loofs wanted to deal for Pau, it would be to build around him. Now, the question is, what do they do it with? Do they re-sign Bibby at a hefty pricetag? How much is Kevin Martin going to demand? How much in exp contracts does Sac send back? (I'm not sure about any of these questions, but they are the type of stuff that teams have to consider. Not every deal can be made equally. If background concerns weren't an issue then Chicago would have Pau right now.)

Re: Artest, everyone has to know he's up for sale to the highest bidder. That's his perpetual status. He's been that way since the Palace Brawl.

On a scale of 1-10? --273. But when you talk about happiness, I wasn't too thrilled when Atlanta sent Sheed to Detroit for nothing after years of him killing us at PF up in Portland. I'm sure Dallas isn't too thrilled about the Baron trade in retrospect. To them, he was more like the Red Baron once they were leveled that humiliating defeat.
 
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273 because it's unbelievably good, right? :)

Martin has signed a 5 year extension for $55 mil and this probably will put us a million over the luxury tax for one year.
 
Vlade4GM said:
Not saying Popovich is wrong about how lop sided it is, but geez have a little dignity; does he really want to be known as the whiner? I guess he already is known as that though since he's always the first guy to complain to the league office about every single little thing. He would've done the same thing for Gasol if the opportunity arose.
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When has he whined before? He's not as bad as Dallas...
 
I don't think Pop was actually suggesting such a committee should exist. I do think he was putting an exclamation point after taking up the gauntlet Memphis's GM threw down and saying not only do I think it was stupid, THIS is how stupid I think it was.

Fairly unprecedented actually -- guys never say that about other guys. Makes any future Memphis/Spurs deal unlikely. And damn, after that Gasol deal I would think the last thing you would want to do is burn your bridges into Mempis -- might be able to get yourself Rudy Gay for Mateen Cleaves and a half eaten Hershey's bar.
 
Bricklayer said:
I don't think Pop was actually suggesting such a committee should exist. I do think he was putting an exclamation point after taking up the gauntlet Memphis's GM threw down and saying not only do I think it was stupid, THIS is how stupid I think it was.

Fairly unprecedented actually -- guys never say that about other guys. Makes any future Memphis/Spurs deal unlikely. And damn, after that Gasol deal I would think the last thing you would want to do is burn your bridges into Mempis -- might be able to get yourself Rudy Gay for Mateen Cleaves and a half eaten Hershey's bar.
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Pop can forget about Kwame now.

NOTE: I've merged the last few comments in this thread into the ongoing Lakers discussion thread as they've drifted into more general Lakers discussion. - VF21
 
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