City of Sacramento directs Ahaheim to stop negotiations with Kings.
- Thread starter Hoovtrain
- Start date
Bottomline is there is no deal! What if it falls through and they have to come back? These deals fall apart at the last minute all the time. Also the NBA would not let an NBA team move if they did not have there debts paid off. There not going to let one of there teams owners leave a city high and dry. It just won't happen so they will pay that off and that letter from the city was uncalled for because the Maloofs have always paid there bills to the city of Sacramento.
The past couple of years all ive heard from the maloofs is how "this is a business". We need to protect our business. We will do what's best for our business. Well, the city has an OBLIGATION to us, the taxpayers, to make sure the maloofs do not back out of their obligations. I don't get kudos for making my mortgage on time every month. IT's WHATS EXPECTED OF ME! Id bet my underwater house that the bank has every I dotted and T crossed when it comes to its customers defaulting. Seems that some here think the city should just be hoping and trusting that the maloofs will pay their debt. Cmon people. That's just straight ignorant.
Whats ignorant is actually believing that Maloofs would be able to move unless they pay off their debt to Sacramento. For one, don't think Maloofs would do it, for 2 NBA would not allow them to do it unless the debt is settled and for 3, Anaheim would not want to get into those negotiations because there would be a real threat of leagal action from Sacramento. Not only that but why would Anaheim enter into negotiations with people that have screwed the town that they are leaving????
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
Whats ignorant is actually believing that Maloofs would be able to move unless they pay off their debt to Sacramento. For one, don't think Maloofs would do it, for 2 NBA would not allow them to do it unless the debt is settled and for 3, Anaheim would not want to get into those negotiations because there would be a real threat of leagal action from Sacramento. Not only that but why would Anaheim enter into negotiations with people that have screwed the town that they are leaving????
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
Maybe if some of you outsiders weren't just carrying water for the Maloofs and would take a few seconds to acknowledge that the Mayor who you are so critical of had nothing to do with Sacramento politics during the years that the city was primarily at fault for the deal not getting done and has spent almost all of his political capital over the past 2 years as mayor trying to broker a deal and even appeared remotely sympathetic to the citizens and long time residents of Sacramento people wouldn't be so critical of your opinions.
THIS outsider, just THIS one is disgusted with the City that represents the small minded people of a city very happy to be positioned half way between the Bay and Tahoe. They could give a crap if Sacramento and the whole darn area effected by what the City does suffers and will never be a "destination city/area." We just need good truck stops and gas stations on the freeway as people whiz by. I have nothing against KJ but quite obviously the City he chose to bestow his powers on doesn't care as much as he does.
KJ's political capital, as you call it, comes soley because he was an NBA basketball player. Now what is he good for?
KJ's political capital, as you call it, comes soley because he was an NBA basketball player. Now what is he good for?
There are a bazillion threads, so I am just updating here. Watching the city council meeting right now with the Taylor Icon update (caught only the tail end), the group is continuing forward, but now delayed. Final report will not be done until mid to late may (because of the lack of input from the Maloofs). They did determine an arena would fit in the city owned railyard parcel, they have a few mock ups of an arena and will get that to the builders within the next 3 weeks to factor in the construction costs.
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Whats ignorant is actually believing that Maloofs would be able to move unless they pay off their debt to Sacramento. For one, don't think Maloofs would do it, for 2 NBA would not allow them to do it unless the debt is settled and for 3, Anaheim would not want to get into those negotiations because there would be a real threat of leagal action from Sacramento. Not only that but why would Anaheim enter into negotiations with people that have screwed the town that they are leaving????
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
You guys are assuming these are every day joe blows off the street that have no idea about legal obligations. We are talking about multi-millionaire businessmen and a city that cannot afford to get a sued.
This letter was not about looking out for the interest of people of Sacramento, its a political tactic to present a hurdle in the process so that it side tracks the negotiations enough in a hope that the deal does not get done in time, and a political stunt by the politicians of Sacramento so that they are seen as looking after the interest of the taxpayers and come off a lot better in this.
Last resort sort of move that burns bridges and destoys any hope of Kings staying in Sacramento long term if the deal with Anaheim falls through.
But hey what would I know, it "appauling" that a foreigner should comment on these things
And hey, if all we get is another season, at least we get to see our youngins one more year before they get taken away. Hell, maybe they give us one more playoff series.
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It's not so much that the opinion of outsiders are worthless, but that they are worthless when those people have demonstrated a very limited knowledge of the local politics in play. Everyone who is still supporting the Maloof's seem to have a common opinion that Sacramentans are small minded, knuckle-dragging, mouth-breathing buffoons.
I keep hearing the same thing: "It's the city's responsibility to make an arena." This line of thinking has been repeated so often that people accept it as fact.
Why?
Why should a MULTI-BILLION dollar corporation like the NBA reap all of the money from a building if they are unwilling to put forth the risk of getting such a large project off the ground? Beggars can't be choosers. If the Maloofs and the NBA want a downtown state-of-the-art arena with the ability to profit from all of the events, then they should fund it. However, if they can't afford it, then the city should be able to share in the profits if they are going to invest in such an expensive project. If you are going to hold the opinion of a typical big-business blow-hard, then you have to understand that the sentiment works both ways. If the business wants to reap all of the rewards, it has to be willing to put forth all of the risk. And if the Maloof's are unwilling to do that, then they should be more willing to compromise with the city than they have been.
I think this is a key detail that most people bashing the city council are missing. And this is the kind of thinking that allows the NBA to get away with their actions. They force cities to prostitute themselves for the "luxury" of hosting an NBA franchise. AND CITIES DO IT! And when the well runs dry, the pick up shop and move on to another city. Pillage/Plunder/Repeat.
I'm sorry, but if the NBA can't support itself with ticket sales/merchandise/concessions/parking/corporate sponsorships/etc, then they have an internal problem that needs to be addressed, because asking cities to just front them millions of dollars should never be a key component of their business model. Just think about how many BILLIONS of dollars have essentially been given to the NBA by taxpayers in the forms of arenas. What other business could possibly get away with that?
I keep hearing the same thing: "It's the city's responsibility to make an arena." This line of thinking has been repeated so often that people accept it as fact.
Why?
Why should a MULTI-BILLION dollar corporation like the NBA reap all of the money from a building if they are unwilling to put forth the risk of getting such a large project off the ground? Beggars can't be choosers. If the Maloofs and the NBA want a downtown state-of-the-art arena with the ability to profit from all of the events, then they should fund it. However, if they can't afford it, then the city should be able to share in the profits if they are going to invest in such an expensive project. If you are going to hold the opinion of a typical big-business blow-hard, then you have to understand that the sentiment works both ways. If the business wants to reap all of the rewards, it has to be willing to put forth all of the risk. And if the Maloof's are unwilling to do that, then they should be more willing to compromise with the city than they have been.
I think this is a key detail that most people bashing the city council are missing. And this is the kind of thinking that allows the NBA to get away with their actions. They force cities to prostitute themselves for the "luxury" of hosting an NBA franchise. AND CITIES DO IT! And when the well runs dry, the pick up shop and move on to another city. Pillage/Plunder/Repeat.
I'm sorry, but if the NBA can't support itself with ticket sales/merchandise/concessions/parking/corporate sponsorships/etc, then they have an internal problem that needs to be addressed, because asking cities to just front them millions of dollars should never be a key component of their business model. Just think about how many BILLIONS of dollars have essentially been given to the NBA by taxpayers in the forms of arenas. What other business could possibly get away with that?
Just a general comment...
With everything that's going on and the gamut of emotions being felt, it seems more than ridiculous to waste time worrying about whether or not someone actually lives in Sacramento to determine whether or not his/her comment has merit. What's ignorant is worrying about which fire hydrant to use while you watch your house burn down.
With everything that's going on and the gamut of emotions being felt, it seems more than ridiculous to waste time worrying about whether or not someone actually lives in Sacramento to determine whether or not his/her comment has merit. What's ignorant is worrying about which fire hydrant to use while you watch your house burn down.
I'm not trying to dismiss arguments from people outside of Sacramento (I haven't lived in Sac for quite some time, myself). Sorry if it came across that way.
However, it's just the repeated thinking of "the city should fund the arena" type of arguments that irk me. Those blanket statements are made often, and it's my suspicion that people making those comments never really sat down and thought about why they feel that the public should fund a building that will be used as a vehicle for private profits. Personally, I think the city should take a "what's in it for me" approach. It's not your typical re-pave roads/trash pick-up type of issue, where its something that needs to be done for the city to continue to function. So if the city doesn't get a return on the investment, then why should they be obligated to put forth the risk? I think the NBA is getting away with fleecing the national public one city at a time. And I don't really understand why people are encouraging this. If you can remove yourself from the emotions of being a fan and step back and observe the situation, I think people would be offended by what's going on.
However, it's just the repeated thinking of "the city should fund the arena" type of arguments that irk me. Those blanket statements are made often, and it's my suspicion that people making those comments never really sat down and thought about why they feel that the public should fund a building that will be used as a vehicle for private profits. Personally, I think the city should take a "what's in it for me" approach. It's not your typical re-pave roads/trash pick-up type of issue, where its something that needs to be done for the city to continue to function. So if the city doesn't get a return on the investment, then why should they be obligated to put forth the risk? I think the NBA is getting away with fleecing the national public one city at a time. And I don't really understand why people are encouraging this. If you can remove yourself from the emotions of being a fan and step back and observe the situation, I think people would be offended by what's going on.
Turn on your TV and look at the number of fans at the game tonight.
If we "forced" the Maloofs to keep the Kings here, that's how all 41 games will look next year. That will force the NBA to contract the team.
Let 'em go. That wouldn't be a basketball season. It would be miserable.
All that money they have set aside to spend on free agents this summer? Won't spend a dime of it. They'll get way below the league minimum and force the NBA to sue them to get back up.
If we "forced" the Maloofs to keep the Kings here, that's how all 41 games will look next year. That will force the NBA to contract the team.
Let 'em go. That wouldn't be a basketball season. It would be miserable.
All that money they have set aside to spend on free agents this summer? Won't spend a dime of it. They'll get way below the league minimum and force the NBA to sue them to get back up.
Then delete the damn posts.. Including mine. I don't like reading it as much as I don't like writing a comeback. There are certain people who are looking to get a rise out of Sacramentans that are upset over the move. Whether it's their intentions or not it's pretty blatant and just pisses people off more. You don't have to agree with us but calling us "Small minded locals who don't understand the situation" when we are the ones having to live it while they read about it half a world away just irritates the hell out of me.
Then you having others in OC who are REAL bad at hiding their enthusiasm about getting the Kings. When it's a done deal and the Kings fans from Sac are gone then say how happy you are. Don't rub it in our face, or put up some false front that you want to team to stay here while pumping your fists in the background.
Then you having others in OC who are REAL bad at hiding their enthusiasm about getting the Kings. When it's a done deal and the Kings fans from Sac are gone then say how happy you are. Don't rub it in our face, or put up some false front that you want to team to stay here while pumping your fists in the background.
Then quit acting like anyone who lives outside Sac doesn't have a valid opinion on the subject. You act like you're a better fan, or more of a fan, or that Sac is the only city to have ever had a team move. Don't be so quick to discount the experiences of others.
As for me, since your response was directed at what I said, I'm not trying to get a reaction out of anyone. I've taken the time in countless posts to type very well thought out responses, which highlight all the reasons I feel the way I do. But attacking peoples opinions, and the validity of their opinion, just because they don't live in Sac is rediculous. Has nothing to do with the facts. It might hurt locals more if they move, but it doesn't change the facts of this situation whatsoever.
As for me, since your response was directed at what I said, I'm not trying to get a reaction out of anyone. I've taken the time in countless posts to type very well thought out responses, which highlight all the reasons I feel the way I do. But attacking peoples opinions, and the validity of their opinion, just because they don't live in Sac is rediculous. Has nothing to do with the facts. It might hurt locals more if they move, but it doesn't change the facts of this situation whatsoever.
Bullcrap. There aren't that many fans there because it's pretty much being accepted by a lot of people that this team isn't going to be around much longer. I know I'm most likely not going to be going to any more games. The "death of 1,000 cuts" is painful enough without actually being close enough to watch the death throes.
And a classless bunch of lowlifes they are. It's easy for them to come on here and play the "objective" card, they have no emotional investment in the team's location. I'd bet 10 to 1 most of them are Laker fans in disguise. If the mods have to exercise their control fetish, I wish they'd do it on these outside *****.
Boy, you are way off the mark on this one. So you don't think the Maloofs will default, eh? So I guess we should just all go home then because you said so.
The reality is that for one, the Maloofs would save tens of millions by not paying back the loan. For two, the NBA doesn't give a crap about this sort of thing and usually just let the court decides on money issue (ie. Don Nelson vs. Mark Cuban and Elgin Baylor vs. Donald Sterlings). For three, why wouldn't Samueli do business with a bunch of backstabbing SOBs? He just wants an NBA team he could care less who that is.
The fact of the matter is that multi-millionaires default on loans all the time. It's all about dollar and cents. Have you heard of a guy named Donald Trump? He defaulted on a $640 millions (not a typo) loan three years ago. Do you know what Trump would call a default of a $77 million loan? Tuesday.
The lawsuit is a last resort thing, but it's also a smart move. It pains me to say it, but the Kings are gone. Nothing short of a miracle happening on lunar eclipse will save this team. It's time for Plan B, which is to get the Maloofs to pay back the loan in full, and the challenge is that they are not legally obligated to to so.
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I really don't care if people are from Sacramento or not. The point of my post was to state that the idea that it is the city's responsibility to fund an arena that will be used for a private business to make profits is insane. This is why I think people in Sacramento should have more say, because it is their money on the line. I have yet to see one rational reason why the city should be burdened with making a half billion dollar arena for a private business that could pick up and leave town whenever something better comes along.
I'm not dismissing your opinion as a basketball fan, I just think that when the arguments shifts over into another realm of debate, pure basketball knowledge begins to have less merit.
That's where my "if you don't understand the local politics" argument comes into play. The situation has become less about basketball and more about politics and legal matters. I seem to recall you explicitly stating that it is the city's responsibility to build an arena. That's a very bold statement, and it always seems to go unchallenged. I sincerely would like to see solid, factual reasons why a city should have to shoulder that cost. If you have reasons, or can point me to studies that demonstrate why it would be in the city's best interest to do so, I would love to hear it. I promise I won't shoot it down if the reasons stand on their own merit.
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Yep, these are the ones that really cheese me off, those talking out of both sides of their mouths and lining up their deposit money for season tickets at the Anaheim Center.
There's one more group you didn't mention and those are those Maloof ball-washers that have a double standard vs. the city of Sacramento.
Maloofs can treat this as a business deal, Sacramento has to treat this as "family".
Maloofs can move at any time, Sacramento isn't a business partner in any of this.
Mafoofs can publicly flirt with Anaheim and cause attendance to dip lower than ever but that's totally within reason. Sacramento can't fight back because it might hurt the Maloofs feelings.
It's not so much a local vs. non-local issue as much as it is that there is an ever growing group that feels like throwing this in the face of Sacramentans and those that care that the team remains there. There are some who made it clear long ago that they will follow the team wherever that have stayed above the fray and those folks are totally cool. It's those that take some sadistic pleasure in the hurt that this is causing the rest of us that can fill in the blank.
There's one more group you didn't mention and those are those Maloof ball-washers that have a double standard vs. the city of Sacramento.
Maloofs can treat this as a business deal, Sacramento has to treat this as "family".
Maloofs can move at any time, Sacramento isn't a business partner in any of this.
Mafoofs can publicly flirt with Anaheim and cause attendance to dip lower than ever but that's totally within reason. Sacramento can't fight back because it might hurt the Maloofs feelings.
It's not so much a local vs. non-local issue as much as it is that there is an ever growing group that feels like throwing this in the face of Sacramentans and those that care that the team remains there. There are some who made it clear long ago that they will follow the team wherever that have stayed above the fray and those folks are totally cool. It's those that take some sadistic pleasure in the hurt that this is causing the rest of us that can fill in the blank.