Buddy Hield - bonanza or bust? Split from Nets game thread

[Kingster]

While I would like to avoid getting personal, I don't think it's just one little comment. It may not have been one you would have said, but clearly it was one that you liked. I can guarantee you it won't be the last from said poster.

I get the sentiment to want to see more - I am by no means saying Buddy is playing at the level he needs to be. But I also think it's ridiculous to single him out when the whole team is playing like garbage and others are equally making turnovers.

You are a model of understatement. If you're talking about me, I guarantee it's not going to be the last either because Buddy Hield has made more stupid plays this year in such a limited period of time that I can bluntly and frankly and sincerely say I've never in fifty years seen anything like it.
I know, you would say, "He's a little slow on learning the system." The guy has had one very good game this year, which he nearly blew for the team with a careless idiotic left one-handed pass that sailed to a spectator in the stands, and that's it. It's becoming a regular thing now that Buddy Hield will do something stupid, the camera pans to Walton, his mouth agape at what he just saw. There are no words. I can just imagine what Divac, one of the smarter players to ever play the game, thinks of Buddy Hield??? May the Lord above please give Walton the strength of mind and character to deal with Buddy Hield this year!

 

[BLNINJA #81]

Early in the game, he literally chased down a ball going out of bounds which was clearly off Brooklyn and would've been kings ball. He just looked at it and touched it as it fell out of bounds. I was in shock and speechless... some of the fans around me at the game were making comments like, "what a retard", "Buddy is a dummy yo", and "WTF, lol" etc. when that occurred...

When he was finally pulled in the 3rd, he had the nerve to complain. Not sure if any TV cameras caught it, but I was looking at the bench and thinking, he can't be serious right? I'd take myself out of the game if I played that dumb!

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Early in the game, he literally chased down a ball going out of bounds which was clearly off Brooklyn and would've been kings ball. He just looked at it and touched it as it fell out of bounds. I was in shock and speechless... some of the fans around me at the game were making comments like, "what a retard", "Buddy is a dummy yo", and "WTF, lol" etc. when that occurred...

When he was finally pulled in the 3rd, he had the nerve to complain. Not sure if any TV cameras caught it, but I was looking at the bench and thinking, he can't be serious right? I'd take myself out of the game if I played that dumb!

I think that play happened right after halftime. Still trying to figure out what he was thinking. If he thought someone on the Kings touched it, why wouldn’t he try to throw it back in? He literally jogged toward the ball after Temple tipped it and stepped out of bounds. And he proceeded to chuck the ball up for a delay of game. That might be #1 on Shaqtin the fool

 

[mac]

You are a model of understatement. If you're talking about me, I guarantee it's not going to be the last either because Buddy Hield has made more stupid plays this year in such a limited period of time that I can bluntly and frankly and sincerely say I've never in fifty years seen anything like it.
I know, you would say, "He's a little slow on learning the system." The guy has had one very good game this year, which he nearly blew for the team with a careless idiotic left one-handed pass that sailed to a spectator in the stands, and that's it. It's becoming a regular thing now that Buddy Hield will do something stupid, the camera pans to Walton, his mouth agape at what he just saw. There are no words. I can just imagine what Divac, one of the smarter players to ever play the game, thinks of Buddy Hield??? May the Lord above please give Walton the strength of mind and character to deal with Buddy Hield this year!

Well then you better hope Vlade trades him then since he's such a negative to you. Yup that's right, get rid of our leading scorer. Will be fun watching CoJo and Fox try and penetrate time after time while we rely on Dedmon and Barnes to brick 3s.

 

[cwebb2002]

I have to say, Buddy also makes some dumb boneheaded plays. I have never seen a borderline star make so many mistakes unnecessarily. Whenever he has the ball in traffic i feel he will cough it up. Whenever he goes to the rim i feel he will miss badly and even on the break, has significant difficulty making a contested layup or draw a foul. Has mostly to do with his bad handles. Now it is night and day compared to when he first came in the league but some of this should be ironed out by now.

 

[rosa u podne]

I think that play happened right after halftime. Still trying to figure out what he was thinking. If he thought someone on the Kings touched it, why wouldn’t he try to throw it back in? He literally jogged toward the ball after Temple tipped it and stepped out of bounds. And he proceeded to chuck the ball up for a delay of game. That might be #1 on Shaqtin the fool

He probably was not sure if Temple still plays for the Kings.

 

[sactowndog]

He probably was not sure if Temple still plays for the Kings.

The funny thing is after atypical Buddy boneheaded play they always cut to Walton who looks like he is going to have an aneurism.

 

[Folsomkingsfan]

I have to say, Buddy also makes some dumb boneheaded plays. I have never seen a borderline star make so many mistakes unnecessarily. Whenever he has the ball in traffic i feel he will cough it up. Whenever he goes to the rim i feel he will miss badly and even on the break, has significant difficulty making a contested layup or draw a foul. Has mostly to do with his bad handles. Now it is night and day compared to when he first came in the league but some of this should be ironed out by now.

It's the reason why I think Buddy should be our 6th man. He is not well rounded enough to offset the amount of mistakes he makes. Anytime he has the ball for more than a few seconds it always seems to result in a poor possession. It seems like the team is fully committed to him being a starter, but bringing in a 3 & D 2 shooting guard and bringing Buddy off the bench would be ideal.

 

[Kingster]

Well then you better hope Vlade trades him then since he's such a negative to you. Yup that's right, get rid of our leading scorer. Will be fun watching CoJo and Fox try and penetrate time after time while we rely on Dedmon and Barnes to brick 3s.

I listened to the same stuff last year and the year before about the great WCS: He's so fast; he can defend on the perimeter; oh, you're going to be so unhappy when he's gone; we should pay him $15-$20 M a year; he's perfect with Fox; he's misunderstood; let's not do anything to harm the core, we have a good thing going; who could we get that could possibly be better?; you're going to be sorry when he's gone, you're being too hard on him, he's really not the lazy player that you think he is.... Lo and behold, we have Mr. Holmes. Oh, I pine terribly for WCS.

We're only 14 games into the season, so I'm not even thinking of trade scenarios at this point. Maybe Walton can come up with the concoction that will fire Hield's brain synapses. Maybe his role is severely limited to limit his risk exposure to the team. The insertion of Bagley could help by demanding double teams and leaving Hield wide open with nothing to do but shoot. But if this trend continues through December? You bet I'll be thinking about it. Why? Because it will be clear to Walton and Divac that absent taking the "limitless pill" Hield isn't going to fit into their long term plans. If Divac and Walton want to build a team that succeeds in the playoffs, where we know that mistakes are magnified, how could they not wonder if they can succeed with Hield on the floor? The key point with Hield: most of his turnovers have been "unforced." They are caused by him and him alone. It's an old maxim: Good teams don't beat themselves. So then, how exactly does Buddy Hield fit into that picture?

P.S. All that said, there is another discussion entirely about his defense. How could the Kings possibly survive without his defense?

 

[mac]

I listened to the same stuff last year and the year before about the great WCS: He's so fast; he can defend on the perimeter; oh, you're going to be so unhappy when he's gone; we should pay him $15-$20 M a year; he's perfect with Fox; he's misunderstood; let's not do anything to harm the core, we have a good thing going; who could we get that could possibly be better?; you're going to be sorry when he's gone, you're being too hard on him, he's really not the lazy player that you think he is.... Lo and behold, we have Mr. Holmes. Oh, I pine terribly for WCS.

We're only 14 games into the season, so I'm not even thinking of trade scenarios at this point. Maybe Walton can come up with the concoction that will fire Hield's brain synapses. Maybe his role is severely limited to limit his risk exposure to the team. The insertion of Bagley could help by demanding double teams and leaving Hield wide open with nothing to do but shoot. But if this trend continues through December? You bet I'll be thinking about it. Why? Because it will be clear to Walton and Divac that absent taking the "limitless pill" Hield isn't going to fit into their long term plans. If Divac and Walton want to build a team that succeeds in the playoffs, where we know that mistakes are magnified, how could they not wonder if they can succeed with Hield on the floor? The key point with Hield: most of his turnovers have been "unforced." They are caused by him and him alone. It's an old maxim: Good teams don't beat themselves. So then, how exactly does Buddy Hield fit into that picture?

P.S. All that said, there is another discussion entirely about his defense. How could the Kings possibly survive without his defense?

Why don't you break down his defense this season for us if there's so many examples of it being bad or are you just relying on the stereotype? Oh it must be that play where he let Harris cut easily to the basket for a layup and got quickly yanked. Oh wait, didn't CoJo make the same exact mistake? Joseph must be a terrible defender.

The data by and large backs up Hield. That was not the same for WCS - the two situations are not comparable at all and the fact that Vlade has very much shown his willingness to pay Buddy should tell you something.

 

[sactowndog]

Why don't you break down his defense this season for us if there's so many examples of it being bad or are you just relying on the stereotype? Oh it must be that play where he let Harris cut easily to the basket for a layup and got quickly yanked. Oh wait, didn't CoJo make the same exact mistake? Joseph must be a terrible defender.

The data by and large backs up Hield. That was not the same for WCS - the two situations are not comparable at all and the fact that Vlade has very much shown his willingness to pay Buddy should tell you something.

Well to be honest the Data isn’t looking exceptional for Buddy either. His contract includes incentives for the areas we are discussing. The measures are agreed to by Buddy and the team so they can’t be horrible measures. These were deemed reachable but currently Buddy is a ways away.

Defensive rating: Contract incentive less than 110.5. Current rating 113.1. Only Fox and Bagley rate lower.

Turnovers per game: Average fewer than 2 turnovers a game. Current turnovers 2.9. Only Fox is higher.

 

[VF21]

Well to be honest the Data isn’t looking exceptional for Buddy either. His contract includes incentives for the areas we are discussing. The measures are agreed to by Buddy and the team so they can’t be horrible measures. These were deemed reachable but currently Buddy is a ways away.

Defensive rating: Contract incentive less than 110.5. Current rating 113.1. Only Fox and Bagley rate lower.

Turnovers per game: Average fewer than 2 turnovers a game. Current turnovers 2.9. Only Fox is higher.

Oh, good points. I'm not sure everybody remembers those incentives. Is it wrong for me to wonder if this is exactly what Vlade was thinking about when they negotiated?

 

[Kingz19]

Buddy is off to a poor start this year with exception to that Boston game. Bad decision making is unfortunately part of the package that will be masked enough once this team gets healthy but if Buddy is shooting the three at a Buddy clip then hes earning his keep. For the majority of last season he hovered around 48 percent from three until his last quarter of the season slump brought him down to 43. Right now he is at 37 and he’s handling the ball more to frustrating results. Things aren’t going great for him but he’ll get better through shooting the ball a lot better and Walton figuring out how to mask Buddy Blunders as much as possible.

 

[sactowndog]

Buddy is off to a poor start this year with exception to that Boston game. Bad decision making is unfortunately part of the package that will be masked enough once this team gets healthy but if Buddy is shooting the three at a Buddy clip then hes earning his keep. For the majority of last season he hovered around 48 percent from three until his last quarter of the season slump brought him down to 43. Right now he is at 37 and he’s handling the ball more to frustrating results. Things aren’t going great for him but he’ll get better through shooting the ball a lot better and Walton figuring out how to mask Buddy Blunders as much as possible.

Yep Buddy is a weapon when in a position for catch and shoot 3’s. But he plays better with high IQ players that can get him the ball. Bagley, Dedmon, Barnes aren’t those players.

 

[Sac.Kings]

We need a bona fide scorer and leader on the team. Buddy isn’t it but he’s shooting and playing like he is and not doing a very good job. He’s worse in every major category this year compared to last. Fox is a very reluctant scorer and poor shooter and I’ve faded quite a bit on him being the leader that this team needs. He just seems to not want to be “the guy.”
So that leaves Bagley. He can most certainly be the leading scorer that this needs and I suspect in time he will be. But he’s no leader either he’s just an offensive machine. A great #2 in time.
At this point, I think we need to consider trading Buddy and/or promote Bogi to full time starter. He does more things out there for us and the one thing that Hield beats him at (shooting) isn’t that much of a difference. Bogi will come cheaper and is a jack of all trades. It allows Fox to have another ball handler with him at all times. Buddy is a great guy and an even better teammate, but it’s clear he’s too limited and the more touches you give him the worse the results. We don’t have a Lebron that can usually overcome such stupidity from a full time starter (aka Smith) so we need to either trade him or relegate him to the bench.

 

[dude12]

Without Fox and Bagley and Hield, he got their best defenders and others doubled or shaded heavily to him. yeah, he makes some mistakes but he shoots the crap out of the ball. I suppose someone has to take the brunt of the fan’s ire, I guess.

 

[Kingster]

Why don't you break down his defense this season for us if there's so many examples of it being bad or are you just relying on the stereotype? Oh it must be that play where he let Harris cut easily to the basket for a layup and got quickly yanked. Oh wait, didn't CoJo make the same exact mistake? Joseph must be a terrible defender.

The data by and large backs up Hield. That was not the same for WCS - the two situations are not comparable at all and the fact that Vlade has very much shown his willingness to pay Buddy should tell you something.

Oh I've seen a ton that he hasn't done on the defensive side of the ball. Christie has pointed them out on occasion, but he's been nice sometimes by not naming Buddy in the criticism (even though it's there for the viewers to see). But I'm not spending the time on that now, other than to say that opposing teams obviously know Buddy's defensive limitations. In the next few games just watch the proportion of times teams attack Buddy as compared to other Kings' players on the floor. They know the weak link.

And please don't use Corey Joseph and Hield in the same sentence when you're talking about defense. That's like talking about Hield's and Joseph's shooting prowess in the same sentence.

 

[kb02]

A common criticism of US soccer players is that they lack in-game, tactical acumen. It's a European way of saying US soccer players have low soccer IQ. They get lost in space, lose their shape, fails to recognize what the other team is trying to do them, fails to make the right runs...

Buddy lacks in-game, hoops tactical acumen. His wiring is one gear and one speed, which is to score and go 100% all the time. His brain farts, careless turnovers, fouling at the wrong time, shooting prayer threes when the game calls for slowing the game down and winding the clock down are examples of this. For these reasons, he is better suited as a 6th man. I just don't think you can ever fix wiring. He's our JR Smith. For better and worse.

 

[Iced Espresso]

We call him Buddy Fingers at my house. A remarkable shot or two, followed by a what the heck?

Well that's what you get with Buddy.

 

[Sactown ExPat]

A common criticism of US soccer players is that they lack in-game, tactical acumen. It's a European way of saying US soccer players have low soccer IQ. They get lost in space, lose their shape, fails to recognize what the other team is trying to do them, fails to make the right runs...

Buddy lacks in-game, hoops tactical acumen. His wiring is one gear and one speed, which is to score and go 100% all the time. His brain farts, careless turnovers, fouling at the wrong time, shooting prayer threes when the game calls for slowing the game down and winding the clock down are examples of this. For these reasons, he is better suited as a 6th man. I just don't think you can ever fix wiring. He's our JR Smith. For better and worse.

This is a beautiful statement, and an analogy I have often pondered myself. I think the root issue is the same, a severe lack of unstructured play (street ball) with high level players for the US soccer player and a young Buddy growing up on the islands. By the time he got to Wichita, his formative years were behind him and he was being over-coached. His work ethic is unmatched, but it's all about skill development. I bet he's got a wicked handle in drills...but put nine other NBA caliber athletes around him and he's a turnover machine.

Street ball, to me, is where one learns that "feel" for the game. It's where failure is punished by peer ridicule and time off the court/field, and not by a short lecture from coach or a boring film room dissection. It's where quick diagnosis of new opponents and teammates is mandatory, or else you lose. It's where, if you make a terrible one-handed pass on game point and cost your team the W (and two hours watching from the sideline) then you are going to have four of your friends in your ear about what a stupid play you just made. A coach can't just plug you back in cause he likes your work ethic and needs your spacing on the floor. Even now, when we hear about Buddy's work ethic it's about how many shots he puts up every day, or him playing 1-on-1. One-on-1 is fine, but there is unlimited space...it doesn't reinforce team offense or team defense in an unstructured way. The sad thing is, we have Rico Hines on staff--Buddy should be camped out at UCLA every summer playing in those runs. We should see him in every IG video that comes out of Rico's camp. Buddy's been around down there a little bit, but that's what he really needs, IMO.

 

[ppine]

Patience Grasshoppers.
He is one of the best shooters in NBA history.

 

[NME]

Patience Grasshoppers.
He is one of the best shooters in NBA history.

Hopefully, he figures it out before he gets his AARP card.

 

[kb02]

This is a beautiful statement, and an analogy I have often pondered myself. I think the root issue is the same, a severe lack of unstructured play (street ball) with high level players for the US soccer player and a young Buddy growing up on the islands. By the time he got to Wichita, his formative years were behind him and he was being over-coached. His work ethic is unmatched, but it's all about skill development. I bet he's got a wicked handle in drills...but put nine other NBA caliber athletes around him and he's a turnover machine.

Street ball, to me, is where one learns that "feel" for the game. It's where failure is punished by peer ridicule and time off the court/field, and not by a short lecture from coach or a boring film room dissection. It's where quick diagnosis of new opponents and teammates is mandatory, or else you lose. It's where, if you make a terrible one-handed pass on game point and cost your team the W (and two hours watching from the sideline) then you are going to have four of your friends in your ear about what a stupid play you just made. A coach can't just plug you back in cause he likes your work ethic and needs your spacing on the floor. Even now, when we hear about Buddy's work ethic it's about how many shots he puts up every day, or him playing 1-on-1. One-on-1 is fine, but there is unlimited space...it doesn't reinforce team offense or team defense in an unstructured way. The sad thing is, we have Rico Hines on staff--Buddy should be camped out at UCLA every summer playing in those runs. We should see him in every IG video that comes out of Rico's camp. Buddy's been around down there a little bit, but that's what he really needs, IMO.

Agree wholeheartedly.

 

[cwebb2002]

It's the reason why I think Buddy should be our 6th man. He is not well rounded enough to offset the amount of mistakes he makes. Anytime he has the ball for more than a few seconds it always seems to result in a poor possession. It seems like the team is fully committed to him being a starter, but bringing in a 3 & D 2 shooting guard and bringing Buddy off the bench would be ideal.

I actually dont want him to come off the bench. He is the perfect guy next to fox and next to bogi. Plus bringing bogi off the bench brings balance to the team (he could eventually be the ultimate 6th man if he allows it) and ensures things dont fall apart offensively without fox. With fox, bjeli amd barnes there is enough fall handling on the startinf group. I just dont want the coaches to put the ball in buddy's hands to make plays or take the ball out of bounds. Scheme to protect his weaknesses. And he needs to work to address these weaknesses. He will never make that leap unless he does. That is why he didnt get the max.

 

[macadocious]

You guys are hilarious. His stats are almost identical to last year, except his shooting % is down a bit and turnovers are up some while being the absolute focal point of every team.

Dors he make some bone head plays? Sure, but those will decrease when Fox/Bagley are back.

 

[SacTownKid]

You guys are hilarious. His stats are almost identical to last year, except his shooting % is down a bit and turnovers are up some while being the absolute focal point of every team.

Dors he make some bone head plays? Sure, but those will decrease when Fox/Bagley are back.

That's the thing, you can see how much teams respect Buddy if you watch the opposing defense. They know he's the player that can get hot and bury a team. A lot of the looks Bogdan, Harrison, and Bjelica are getting are largely due to the attention the opposing defense is paying to Buddy. He's not always handling the pressure well but there are ways the coaching staff can make it easier on him and the team if they show him the way. Assuming he listens of course. They need more short middle pick and rolls for him. Get him around the free throw line on pick and roll and let him watch a few easy ones go in. The Kings are running too much extended pick and roll at the 3 point line where the idea is to shoot off the screen. Those are tough shots to make. They need to spread out and find spot shooters instead of just looking for long curl plays.

 

[mac]

That's the thing, you can see how much teams respect Buddy if you watch the opposing defense. They know he's the player that can get hot and bury a team. A lot of the looks Bogdan, Harrison, and Bjelica are getting are largely due to the attention the opposing defense is paying to Buddy. He's not always handling the pressure well but there are ways the coaching staff can make it easier on him and the team if they show him the way. Assuming he listens of course. They need more short middle pick and rolls for him. Get him around the free throw line on pick and roll and let him watch a few easy ones go in. The Kings are running too much extended pick and roll at the 3 point line where the idea is to shoot off the screen. Those are tough shots to make. They need to spread out and find spot shooters instead of just looking for long curl plays.

Yeah without Fox and basically any other offensive focal point it's hard to conceive any way in which Buddy can just get open for set shots easily. Defenses sure as hell aren't collapsing on CoJo, and Barnes is not one to draw a double team either. I fully expect things will get better for Buddy from an efficiency standpoint once Fox and Bagley return