Brawl Articles from Indy and Detriot

[slugking50]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/1/196268-9541-092.html
=======================
Pacers battle fans in Detroit
Artest, Jackson charge into stands; game stopped with 45.9 left; Indiana wins

By Mark Montieth
mark.montieth@indystar.com
November 20, 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- An all-out brawl erupted Friday near the end of the Indiana Pacers' victory over Detroit, one that will likely result in long-term suspensions for some Pacers players.
Ron Artest and Stephen Jackson rushed into the stands to confront fans who were drenching the Pacers with beverages with 45.9 seconds left in their 97-82 victory over the Pistons.

About three hours following the startling finish, Auburn Hills police walked out of a television trailer with videotapes gathered from media outlets. Officers interviewed witnesses at the arena in suburban Detroit and planned to talk to the players involved.

"We'll put it all together, take it to the Oakland County Prosecutors Office and have them review it and they'll decide if there are any charges," Auburn Hills Deputy Chief Jim Mynsberge said. "I hope we can do it before Thanksgiving."

One of the half-dozen people treated for injuries at The Palace was taken to a hospital by ambulance and another sought treatment, police said.

"At this time, we don't have any indication of major injuries, Mynsberge said.

Artest did not appear to land punches, but Jackson did. Jermaine O'Neal later struck a fan after he was hit in the head by a chair as chaos reigned at the Palace.

Artest later punched a fan on the court who rushed at him and tried to land a blow.

Stunned Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, speaking with ESPN reporter Jim Gray in the hallway outside the team's locker room afterward, said, "I felt like I was fighting for my life out there."

Fan Mike Ryan, of Clarkston, Mich., speaking about Artest, said: "I have no idea what happened. All of a sudden he was on top of me, punching me, saying, 'Did you do it? Did you do it?' "

"I said, 'No, man, no.' Then he got off of me and moved on to the next guy."

Fred Jones, Eddie Gill and David Harrison were among the Pacers attempting to break up the fights.

Play was suspended while security personnel struggled to restore order, and both teams headed to the locker rooms. The Pacers were pelted with drinks and debris as they passed through the tunnel, and more confrontations erupted.

It was easily the worst incident in the 37-year history of the Pacers franchise.

"That was the ugliest thing I've ever seen in my life as a coach or player," the Pistons coach, Larry Brown, said.

The incident began when Artest gave a hard foul to Pistons center Ben Wallace.

Wallace then shoved Artest in the chest and had to be restrained by Pacers players and coaches from attacking Artest.

Artest responded by lying on the scorer's table with his hands behind his head, smiling while Wallace was restrained.

But when a fan lobbed a drink squarely on his chest, he jumped up, rushed into the stands and began throwing punches. Jackson joined the melee, and other Pacers rushed into the stands to attempt to break up the fights.

Pacers radio broadcaster Mark Boyle, who had attempted to tackle Artest as he hurtled off the scorer's table, had a cut over his right eye. One Pistons official was taken out of the arena in a wheelchair, and several courtside personnel were drenched with beverages.

Reporters were not allowed into the Pacers' locker room after the game, and NBA officials gave the team permission not to make players available to the media.

"The NBA is withholding comment until it can review the incident," NBA spokesman Tim Frank said.

Carlisle said: "It was an unfortunate incident -- that's about all I can say right now. I've never seen or been involved in anything quite like this.

The Pacers' plane landed about 1:30 a.m. today at Indianapolis International Airport. About two dozen fans showed up, several of them to support the players.

"This is awesome," said Bobby Large, 24, Greenwood. "This is the craziest thing I have seen in sports live in a long time."

This story will be updated.

Star reporters Sekou Smith and Tom Spalding and The Associated Press contributed to this report.

Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406.

 

[slugking50]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/5/196278-2615-179.html
=============================
Victory ended early by incident

By Mark Montieth and Sekou Smith
mark.montieth@indystar.com
November 20, 2004

AUBURN HILLS, Mich. -- Not that anyone will remember, but the Indiana Pacers defeated the defending NBA champions Friday.
Their 97-82 victory over Detroit at the Palace was suspended with 45.9 seconds left after a brawl between players and fans spilled into the stands and onto the court.

The Pacers (7-2) were putting the finishing touches on the victory when the melee erupted after Ron Artest gave a hard foul to prevent a layup from Pistons center Ben Wallace.

Wallace shoved Artest hard in the chest and was quickly restrained by Pacers players and coaches. As Artest lay on the scorer's table, one leg casually draped over his knee and his hands behind his head, a fan threw a drink that landed on Artest's chest.

Artest rushed into the stands and was quickly joined by a few of his teammates as bedlam erupted.

All of the Pacers boarded the bus for the airport to catch the charter flight home. They play Orlando at Conseco Fieldhouse tonight. Their injury-riddled lineup is sure to be further depleted as the NBA announces suspensions.

Tom Wilson, president of Palace Sports and Entertainment, said he did not expect arrests to be made, but police officials said a decision will be made today.

"I think it's a terrible thing, a terrible thing for sports and a terrible thing for basketball," Wilson said. "And however upset you get as a player, and there may have been reasons to get that upset, you don't cross that line. That's something you don't do.

"We're sort of paid a whole lot of money to turn the other cheek."

None of the Pistons or Pacers players were available for comment after the game.

Artest got the Pacers off to a quick start, scoring 17 of his 24 points in the first quarter. Their lead peaked at 20 after a 15-2 run to start the second quarter, but they had to hold on for dear life before putting away the game in the final two minutes.

Detroit got within five points on two occasions in the fourth quarter and had two possessions to get closer. But Rasheed Wallace missed a jumper and Ben Wallace missed a point-blank shot after sliding around Austin Croshere in the low post.

The Pacers responded with a 9-0 run to take a 93-79 lead. Stephen Jackson's two free throws with 57.2 seconds left completed the scoring, setting up Artest's foul on Ben Wallace.

"There's no excuse for fans to act that way and there's no excuse for players to (respond)," Pistons coach Larry Brown said. "I was worried about our players' families and young kids. I've just never seen anything like that. I didn't know what to do, personally."

Pacers coach Rick Carlisle, reached on his cell phone as the team rode to the airport in Detroit, backed his players.

"It's unfortunate because we played a great game," he said. "I support my guys 100 percent. We're going to stick together on this. To go beyond that is not in anybody's interest."

The NBA's reaction to the unprecedented incident is difficult to predict, but it is certain to come down hard on those involved.

"I've never seen anything like this before; you broke new ground tonight," Wilson said. "You don't expect that and you certainly hope you never see it again.

"I would expect the consequences will be severe enough that you never will see it happen again."

Call Star reporter Mark Montieth at (317) 444-6406.

 

[slugking50]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/8/196274-4768-179.html
===================
Bob Kravitz
Unreal! This NBA altercation got completely out of control

It was, by any measure, one of the most disgraceful moments in the history of the NBA, and one of the worst, and most frightening, in the history of professional sports in America.
The beer will be mopped up and the debris will be swept away soon enough, but the echoes from Friday night's horrible scene at the end of the Pacers-Pistons game will sound for many weeks to come.

The question now is this: How will the NBA clean up this terrible mess? How does the league find fairness in a situation where nearly everybody acted wrongly and, in some cases, criminally?

Even without further review, we know these things will happen:

• Detroit's Ben Wallace, whose overreaction to Ron Artest's foul started the whole mess, will get suspended, probably for five games.

• Artest, who showed admirable restraint during the early moments of the fiasco, will be hit the hardest for retaliating and running into the stands to confront the fans. Even after he escaped the stands, he cold-cocked a Pistons fan who had come onto the floor. We're talking 10 games, minimum.

• Stephen Jackson, who came to Artest's aid and was clearly the most supportive and aggressive of Artest's teammates, also will be looking at five to 10 games.

And there will be more.

A lot more.

From the Pacers and Pistons, from the NBA and from lawyers representing some of the fans who were caught up in the maelstrom.

There were no arrests Friday night, but that doesn't mean there won't be arrests down the road. This one will not end for a long time.

"It's the ugliest thing I've seen as a coach or a player," Pistons coach Larry Brown said after an infamous night that turned into the Throwdown in Motown. (Oh, yeah, the Pacers won . . . like it matters).

How did American sports come to this?

How did a fairly routine NBA altercation turn into the kind of riot we more often associate with minor league hockey?

And where -- where -- was the security at The Palace of Auburn Hills when thugs disguised at fans tossed beer and cups at Artest?

Where were they when Pacers players, led by Artest and Jackson, charged into the stands and engaged those clowns in a barroom brawl?

Where were they when Pacers players and coaches were coming off the court -- the rest of the game was smartly canceled after the riot -- and fans threw even more cups and chairs on their heads, endangering livelihoods, endangering lives?

Before NBA commissioner David Stern does anything else, he has got to hold the Pistons' organization accountable for the way things got out of hand Friday night.

How much of a fine is enough?

The damage is done. The trick, now, is making sure this never happens again.

Clearly, Detroit needs more security and/or better security, and that's probably true for almost every sports venue in this country.

The foul that started it all was nothing flagrant, nothing terribly violent. Shoot, by Artest's standards, the late foul on Ben Wallace was a love tap. It was a foul, a garden-variety NBA foul at the end of a hard-fought game between the Pacers and Pistons, but nothing out of the ordinary.

The Pistons' center was guilty of a terrible overreaction, and he should get a serious fine and suspension. That said, he can't be blamed for what happened next.

As both teams stood around, posturing and taunting the way NBA players are wont to do, Artest reclined in an almost comical manner on that same table. On this occasion, he was showing great restraint, resisting any temptation to retaliate against Wallace or join the fray nearby.

He couldn't hold back, though, when debris and beer started flying into his face.

What Artest did next, going into the stands to confront the fan, was human nature. Who wouldn't do precisely the same thing?

At the same time, though, his actions cannot be condoned in any form or fashion. It doesn't matter how he was provoked. While we might understand what inspired Artest, we can't condone it, and the league won't let it pass.

It may seem unfair that this was started by Wallace and escalated by fans, yet the Pacers will be hit the hardest by the NBA. But, then, how can you argue? They went into the stands. End of story.

The fear now is what happens Dec. 25, Christmas Day, when these two teams meet again, this time in Indianapolis. Maybe, by that time, things will have settled down between the two organizations, but fans, even the highly civilized ones who fill up the fieldhouse, have very long memories.

This can't happen again.

Although, we know, somewhere, somehow, it will.

Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star. Call him at (317) 444-6643 or e-mail bob.kravitz@indystar.com .

 

[kingskings!]

Another article out of Detroit (I saw it spelled Det-riot someplace) which explains why the Pistons and their fans get off easy (my opinion only).

http://www.freep.com/sports/pistons/mrosey20e_20041120.htm

MICHAEL ROSENBERG: Malice at Palace

BY MICHAEL ROSENBERG
[font=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]FREE PRESS COLUMNIST[/font] November 20, 2004

JULIAN H. GONZALEZ/DFP The Indiana Pacers' Ron Artest stands back after punching and knocking down a fan in a wide-open melee that erupted Friday night near the end of the Pacers game with the Pistons. The game was called with 45.9 seconds left after the altercation erupted. The Pacers were awarded the win, 97-82.


Go away, Ron Artest. Go far, far away.

Last week, you were an amusing circus act.

For much of Friday night, you were the best player in the building.

And then you were something beyond Idiot and several miles past Nuts.

And now you need to disappear -- not for a week, not for a month, and not for any amount of time that can be defined in conventional basketball terms. We're not measuring this in games missed. It goes beyond that.

An intense regular-season game morphed into one of the ugliest nights in sports history Friday, and it's all because of Artest, the Pacers forward. Without him, there is no riot at the Pistons-Pacers game. Period.

Let's replay what happened: Artest committed a hard foul on Ben Wallace, which happens. Wallace retaliated with a shove to Artest's face, which was over the top, but it happens.

Artest went to lie down on the scorer's table like a sunbather and briefly grabbed a headset from the Pacers' broadcast team -- which doesn't happen, but wasn't a huge deal. As other players scuffled, a fan threw a water bottle at Artest's head.

That was stupid and irresponsible -- BUT IT HAPPENS. It shouldn't, but it does. And the expected level of decorum for players and coaches is higher than it is for fans.

Then Artest jumped up and ran into the stands with fists flying. He got there so fast, he almost knocked me over before I knew he was there.

Stupid me, I was watching the court.

Then Pacers Jermaine O'Neal, Eddie Gill and Stephen Jackson jumped into the stands. Pistons broadcaster Rick Mahorn, trying to play peacemaker, followed. It was hard to tell who was trying to break up fights and who was trying to start one. Fans screamed "I punched Artest!" Or, if they were on the receiving end, "He hit me! He hit me!"

The next thing you knew, Artest coldcocked somebody, and O'Neal was said to have done the same, and chairs flew at the Pacers.

And a lot of it was inexcusable. But none of it would have happened if Artest had done what athletes are trained to do forever: Ignore the fans.

You never, ever, EVER run into the stands. And if you dispute that, please tell me one time, just when, when a situation got better when a player bolted into the crowd.

As Palace president Tom Wilson said, "we're paid a lot of money" to maintain poise in that situation.

"I don't know that there was a security failure," Wilson said.

Wrong. Somebody let Artest into the building.

That can't happen for a long time, and it won't. Expect the longest suspension in NBA history. And expect police charges, although none was filed Friday.

What Artest did has nothing to do with sports, nothing to do with the Pacers-Pistons rivalry and very little to do with the water bottle. He has teetered on the wall between sanity and insanity for a while, and Friday he fell on the wrong side. No, not fell. Jumped.

This is obviously a man in need of some serious help. Last week, when he asked coach Rick Carlisle for some time off to promote his CD, he was an amusing sideshow. There goes Ron-Ron again. Ha-ha.

And Friday, he played brilliantly. He was the reason the Pacers won, 97-82. Then he was the reason the game ended with 45.9 seconds left.

Over the loudspeakers, fans were asked to leave the Palace. Then, and only then, did the clock wind down from 45.9. It was way, way, way too late.

Finally, long after the game was officially over, the Pacers' team bus departed the parking lot.

It moved past the Pistons' cars, all of which were running, so that the Detroit players could make a quick exit. (None spoke to the media.)

Rain fell on the Palace parking lot. And as the bus wedged between a dozen or more police cars and a few ambulances, this much was clear: Ron Artest was in the wrong vehicle.

 

[kingskings!]

Light on the Pistons again in my opinion but interesting reading (I hope!).

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/chris_mannix/11/20/pacers.react/

A new low

Only solution for NBA is to get rid of the guy who's the problem

Posted: Saturday November 20, 2004 2:33AM; Updated: Saturday November 20, 2004 8:52PM


In 1977, Los Angeles power forward Kermit Washington landed a punch on Houston's Rudy Tomjanovich that fractured Tomjanovich's face and skull, causing spinal fluid to leak into his nose. Up until last night that incident was described by many NBA experts as single most serious event of that kind to ever happen in the sport. Unfortunately, thanks to the events of last night, history might now have a new low point.

First, let's look at the play that set things in motion. With the Pacers holding a commanding 15-point lead with less than a minute to go, Pistons center Ben Wallace took the ball to the basket for what clearly was nothing more than a garbage-time bucket. Even Wallace's initial defender, Stephen Jackson, recognized the insignificance of Wallace scoring and stepped back, preferring to give up the score in exchange for regaining possession.

But once again, Ron Artest interjected himself into a play that had no bearing on the outcome of the game, fouling Wallace from behind as he went up for the lay-up. I listened to ESPN analysts last night talk about how Artest's foul wasn't of the flagrant variety, but that's hardly the point. At no time during that possession did Artest make any kind of play on the basketball. What he did was purposefully shove Wallace in the back and take a swipe with his off hand at the back of his head.

I worked in the NBA for 10 years, and one of the players I feel like I know the best is Ben Wallace, so believe me when I tell you that there is not a more gentle giant playing the game. I can recall a number of times when Wallace was placed in a situation where he or a teammate was being attacked and he chose to help diffuse the situation rather than engage in a physical confrontation.

But just a week prior to Friday night's game, Wallace had just buried his oldest brother, 61-year old Sam Wallace, making it all the more likely his emotions were riding higher than usual. Wallace is no fool. He knew Artest's intention was not to prevent a basket, but to invoke a response. If you look closely as Wallace is advancing, Artest lowers his head as if anticipating the shot that Wallace delivered to his neck. He knew what he was doing, and he got the result he wanted.

Pushing and shoving is relatively commonplace in most NBA games. Even the alleged "fights" of recent years have been nothing more than one big shoving match (you remember Alonzo Mourning and Larry Johnson in the 1998 playoffs?). Rarely is the case when you will see a player actually throw a closed-fist punch at another player. At the end of the day, the NBA is like one big fraternity, a place where your bitter enemy one year could wind up as your teammate the next. What Wallace did to Artest was not a punch, no matter how many analysts describe it as one. It was a shove, a hard shove to be sure, but nothing even close to resembling a punch. If Wallace, whose nickname in NBA circles is "body," a reference to his chiseled frame, actually did throw a punch, then Ron Artest wouldn't have walked out of Auburn Hills, he would have been carried on a stretcher.

Most of what happened next is open to interpretation. There is no question in my mind that Artest's body language, lying on his back on the scorer's table with his arms behind his head, did nothing to calm Wallace, who was fighting off teammates trying to get to him. Stephen Jackson, who besides Wallace was probably the most animated, only provoked things by taking a fighter's stance and squaring off with Lindsey Hunter. By this time several Pacers and Pistons players not on the floor when the play happened, including Reggie Miller and Derrick Coleman, had wandered onto the court, an NBA no-no that by rule results in an automatic one-game suspension.

Any time you have a blowout situation, which it was at that point in the game, fans begin to get antsy and look for other ways to entertain themselves, which is why I was hardly surprised when Artest was nailed with the cup filled with beer. Here are Detroit fans watching their team get smacked around by their most bitter rival and were seeing their best player being antagonized by the resident NBA bad boy. It's like if Bill Laimbeer clothes-lined Larry Bird and then walked up to the concession stand to buy a hot dog. You expect something to happen. Players have had things thrown at them before, in every sport, but it's like Pistons CEO Tom Wilson says, "no one goes down on the floor, and no one leaves the floor."

I'm sure Artest saw who threw the beer at him -- he went directly after one fan in particular. But when you do something as stupid as running into the stands, you not only put yourself at risk, you put the rest of your teammates at risk as well. While Artest was being restrained by security, Fred Jones was getting pounded in the back of the head by a man twice his size. Jackson went in right after Artest and started swinging wildly at a fan who doused Artest with his beer. And in what might have been the most vicious moment of all, Jermaine O'Neal, responding to a fan walking onto the court and confronting Artest, charged toward the fan and landed a punch that hit the man squarely in the jaw. That shot alone should earn O'Neal a 15-game suspension. It's the old mob mentality: When a fight breaks out, it's survival of the fittest.

It will be interesting to see how the NBA responds to this. Wallace should get five games because it was his blow that incited the melee. Jackson should get seven or eight because he was one of the fight's biggest instigators and was one of the first to go into the stands. O'Neal should get double digits because it was his punch that seemed to connect with the most force and it landed on a fan who at the time was not involved directly in any altercation.

But Artest should be thrown out of the league. How many chances can you give a guy who blatantly doesn't care about the consequences? Time after time we have seen this man suffer meltdowns both on and off the court. Throw him out. He doesn't want to be there anyway. Earlier this season Artest hinted to reporters that if the Pacers won the championship this season, he'd retire. Let the NBA help him out the door. You think his teammates enjoy spending countless hours defending him not only on the court, but to the media as well? Let him go work on his music label. What's the NBA waiting for? Artest to kill someone? After last night does anyone out there not think something like that is out of the realm of possibility?

It's not the players for whom the NBA should feel sorry. It's not the angry fans, either, whose behavior was both disgusting and completely inexcusable. Who the NBA should feel sorry for is the father in the crowd huddled over his daughter, desperately trying to prevent her from being hit by the debris falling from the crowd. Those are the fans the NBA is targeting in its media campaigns, and they are part of the constituency the NBA continues to lose.

 

[ReinadelosReys]

Interesting perspective from the former player Steve Kerr:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=sk-brawl&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Crossing the line
by Steve Kerr, Yahoo! Sports
November 20, 2004


Until the cup was thrown, it was business as usual in Auburn Hills.

An intense, physical basketball game; a hard foul by Ron Artest – in retaliation for a hard Ben Wallace foul a minute earlier; an angry response from Wallace; a pushing match, followed by the usual grabbing, holding and yelling as coaches and officials attempted to gain control of the situation. NBA fans have witnessed scenes like this a thousand times before.

It should have stopped there, and it would have – if a stupid fan hadn't thrown a cup at Artest, hitting him in the face.

Players are forced to endure verbal taunting all the time in sports. I once warmed up for a game at Arizona State University while two inebriated fans taunted me about the death of my father. I've had teammates endure all kinds of ugly insults, threats and barbs.

But there has always been an uneasy understanding between these idiotic fans and players, that a so-called line wouldn't be crossed. Verbal assaults, ugly as they may be, were to be tolerated.Any physical acts however were off limits.

So when Artest was hit in the face by the cup, all bets were off. The line had been crossed, and Artest's response was understandable, if regrettable.

Imagine what any of us would do if a person showed up to our workplace, taunted us and then threw a beer in our face? How many of us would show any restraint at all?

Yes, Artest snapped, and he faces a major suspension from the NBA. So do Stephen Jackson and Jermaine O'Neal, who threw multiple punches at fans. Ben Wallace will be penalized for initiating the altercation. David Stern has to send a message to NBA players that under no circumstances will they be allowed to enter the stands to confront taunting fans, evenin ugly environments like the one in Detroit on Friday night. I expect suspensions of up to 15 games for each of the three Pacers involved.

That said, I hope that each and every fan involved with the fight will be prosecuted to the full extent of the law. The fans provoked the fight, not the players. They deserve major punishment. Law enforcement officials have plenty of footage that will implicate dozens of fans guilty of instigating the brawl.

Perhaps the most disturbing shot was seeing dozens of fans showering Pacer players and coaches with popcorn, beer, cups – anything they could get their hands on as the team exited the floor. The mob mentality at that point was incredibly ugly.

Alcohol almost certainly played a role in this brawl, so I expect the league to enact rules that prohibit its sale, perhaps in the second half of games. But the bottom line is that civil behavior must prevail next time this sort of thing becomes a possibility. Fans and players alike must show restraint, even as emotions run high and the intensity of a big game boils over.

Fans cannot under any circumstances throw anything on the floor. And players, in turn, can't respond. I expect that both the NBA and Auburn Hills police will come down hard on the participants to make sure an ugly incident like this doesn't happen again.

 

[Gargamel]

Ron's the man!

 

[Since93]

The MICHAEL ROSENBERG article is as dumb as what their fans've done last night.

Very scary fans and organization!!! Man I really detest that ballclub right now!!! I will cheer for every opponent they play from now on!!!

Maybe not the Lakers...

 

[peja16]

--

 

[doone]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=1927880

NBA should throw book at Artest
Saturday, November 20, 2004
By Jim Caple
ESPN.com

Go ahead, Ron. Take a good, long time off. You earned it.

Last week Ron Artest asked for a month off to rest up from a grueling schedule that included producing a rap album, providing the most outrageous basketball quote of the year that was not spoken by Kobe Bryant or Shaquille O'Neal: "I've been doing a little bit too much music, just needed the rest. I've still got my album coming out Nov. 23. After the album comes out I'm going to make sure all of my time is focused on winning a championship.''


Artest received a two-game suspension instead and he deserves another far, far longer suspension for his behavior Friday night when he charged into the stands after fans and later punched one on the court. Teammates Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson likewise slugged fans.


The whole melee began when Detroit's Ben Wallace gave Artest a hard, two-handed shove in the chest and face after being fouled with 45.9 seconds left in the game. That started a scuffle between the two teams that ended with referees calling an end to the game. Everything seemed to be calming down when someone threw a full cup on Artest, who was inexplicably lying on the scorer's table, and that's when everything went to hell. Artest and Jackson went into the stands swinging for fans and fans spilled onto the court trolling for lawsuits.


Why everyone should get so upset, especially about an NBA game in mid-November, is unclear. Evidently, Detroit fans are going through withdrawal because of the NHL lockout. The only thing they didn't throw at the Pacers was an octopus.


How ugly was this fight? So ugly that Rick Mahorn and Rasheed Wallace were the peacemakers.


Now, let's be clear. The fans in Detroit are equally at fault here. They crossed the line further than if they had Pittsburgh Steelers blocking for them. They inflamed a situation that was about to end peacefully. What we can see them doing is bad enough; what we can't hear them shouting at the players can only be imagined.


Without question, the fans deserve severe punishment. But other than taking away their season tickets and banning them from games, there isn't much the NBA can do about those morons. Their punishment must be handed out by the justice system, which should not only charge each one involved with assault but also reject any possible lawsuit directed at a player's checkbook.


The NBA, however, does have jurisdiction over its players and should throw the book at the three Pacers who fought with fans.


Artest went charging into the stands, looking wildly for the fan who threw the cup. It isn't clear whether he knew who actually did it, but he did shove down one fan he suspected. Then Jackson came up and drilled another fan who threw another beer at Artest.


After that settled down and security and teammates separated everyone, two fans came strutting onto the court toward Artest, essentially asking to be clobbered. Artest obliged them, as did an unidentified assistant coach and O'Neal, who all threw some very violent punches.


While the fans clearly asked for it, that in no way gives the players permission to give it to them. The players must be mature enough to let security and police officers handle such situations, if only to protect their bank accounts. Fan behavior can be ugly. It always gets much, much uglier when players respond.


As NBA commissioner David Stern said when announcing the indefinite suspensions, "This demonstrates why our players must not enter the stands, whatever the provocation or poisonous behavior of people attending the games."


We've had a distressing number of such incidents recently -- the father-son morons attacking a first base coach in Chicago, Frank Francisco tossing a chair in Oakland -- and the only way to end it is to get tough. Prosecute the fans and suspend the players without pay long enough that they have to take notice.


The NBA is already dealing with falling popularity and a perception that it has lost control of its players. To rescue its image, it has to come down hard -- the minimum suspensions should be 20 games. And Artest, whose record demonstrates a profound lack of control, should face a season-long suspension.


If Artest wants to record an album, fine. But the NBA can't tolerate him fighting everyone as if he's in the audience of the Vibe magazine awards.


Jim Caple is a senior writer for ESPN.com.

 

[Bricklayer]

How ugly was this fight? So ugly that Rick Mahorn and Rasheed Wallace were the peacemakers.

Ho-hum article, but that was a great line.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

If Artest wants to record an album, fine. But the NBA can't tolerate him fighting everyone as if he's in the audience of the Vibe magazine awards.

Jim Caple sounds a bit racist there...

 

[Bricklayer]

Jim Caple sounds a bit racist there...

No, actually he was referring to a brawl that broke out at those awards held a few days ago where Dr. Dre got punched in the face and a fan got stabbed.

No doubt chosen for hip hop relevance, but let's be honest here. Violence is part of that culture, and so is Ron Artest. Thinking the sad odds are that this significantly ups the sales of his album.

 

[BLNINJA #81]

No, actually he was referring to a brawl that broke out at those awards held a few days ago where Dr. Dre got punched in the face and a fan got stabbed.

No doubt chosen for hip hop relevance, but let's be honest here. Violence is part of that culture, and so is Ron Artest. Thinking the sad odds are that this significantly ups the sales of his album.

I guess you're right. And about those sales... makes the upcoming lawsuit look a little less burdensome

 

[doone]

Ho-hum article, but that was a great line.

I agree. Awesome line. I laughed when I read it for the first time.

 

[slugking50]

Suspensions greeted locally with outrage, suspicion

http://www.indystar.com/articles/6/196585-6686-179.html

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Suspensions greeted locally with outrage, suspicion

By Jeff Rabjohns
jeff.rabjohns@indystar.com
November 21, 2004
Ryan Carrell of Carmel will be at Conseco Fieldhouse Tuesday night for the Pacers' game against Boston.

He'll have with him a petition he'd like Pacers fans to sign before sending it to NBA commissioner David Stern.

Carrell wants to pass a message to Stern: You messed up.

Carrell, who owns a Pacers 10-game mini-season package, feels Stern's punishment of Ron Artest, Jermaine O'Neal and Stephen Jackson is excessive.

He's not alone.

A number of Pacers fans expressed outrage at Stern's decision to suspend without pay Artest for the rest of the season, Jackson for 30 games and O'Neal for 25 games following Friday's melee in Detroit. Fan reaction ranged from outright anger to conspiracy theories that Stern has a personal vendetta against Artest and doesn't want a small-market team like the Pacers to reach the NBA Finals.

In his petition Carrell wrote: "By suspending players in the manner that you have suspended them as well as failing to make an initial statement about the fans involved in this fight, the ramifications facing the Detroit franchise and the alcohol that was the true initiator in this melee, the league has lost complete control and given so-called fans across the country the precedent to hereby physically effect NBA games.

"A fan who does not like a player or a specific team can affect that team and player for possibly the entire season and/or playoffs by enticing that player to react as any human being reacts when being physically assaulted."

Friday's fight in the stands started with a Pistons patron threw a beverage on Artest, after he was attacked by Pistons center Ben Wallace following a foul. Artest and Jackson went into the stands and threw punches, and the fight later resumed on the playing floor when fans came onto the court to confront Artest and O'Neal.

"I really don't blame Artest for doing what he did," said Donny Harper of Indianapolis. "I am 31 years old and I have a 10-year-old daughter, and I can honestly say I would have done the same thing that he did. As for the fans that came on the floor and got hit, they shouldn't have been on the floor in the first place so they should have nothing to say."

Mike Egner of Indianapolis, who describes himself as a die-hard Pacers fan, blasted Stern.

"These suspension that are coming down are absolutely preposterous," he said. "The play before Ben Wallace was fouled by Artest, Ron Artest was fouled by Ben Wallace and there was no call.

"I think the commissioner should be fired for the decision, and I think the fans of Detroit were not civilized in the reaction in what transpired on the floor."

Said Orville Henry of Indianapolis: "I think that it's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard of. They've never suspended baseball players, football players or hockey players for the whole season. This is just terrible. It practically puts our team out of business."

Said Vernon Snodgrass of Indianapolis: "It's ridiculous. I think they're forgetting that Artest was assaulted last year when he was hit in the head with a quarter in Detroit.

"How many times do you have to be assaulted and nothing happens. He has the right to defend himself. He did act unprofessionally, but to be suspended for the rest of the year is ridiculous. And Jermaine for 25 games? The guy he hit was on the court."

Brian Gaddie, 36, of Indianapolis, said the type of fan behavior exhibited by Pistons fans who threw beer and trash -- and even a chair -- at Pacers players has him fearful of taking his niece to an NBA game.

"There are fans who think that because they buy a ticket and they're tired from working all day, they can come to an NBA game and let it all out, say whatever they want," Gaddie said.

"I don't understand why these fans can't be policed better."

Call Star reporter Jeff Rabjohns at (317) 444-6183.
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Some fans I tell ya......
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[slugking50]

http://www.indystar.com/articles/3/196509-9233-092.html

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Bob kravitz
Kravitz: Stern strikes a blow for decency
CHICAGO -- It's fair.

And it's just.

It's the sentence NBA commissioner David Stern was morally compelled to hand down Sunday if he wanted to salvage the dignity of his league and his game.

How could he have been expected to show leniency here? He simply could not. He had to send a message. He had to make it clear that no matter how badly a player is provoked, he can never, ever, go into the stands. Anything less, and he risked having his league reduced to a circus sideshow.

Ron Artest deserved the full-season suspension, and should be grateful he wasn't kicked out of the game for life.

Stephen Jackson got what he deserved. As did Jermaine O'Neal. As did Detroit's Ben Wallace. As did everybody else whose actions stained themselves, their organizations and the entire sport.

At some point, it's hoped that Stern will also determine the Detroit Pistons' institutional culpability in this incident, and consider whatever fine might be appropriate. That, Stern said Sunday, will come in time.

In the short term, though, he knew he had to act quickly and decisively. This was arguably the ugliest moment in the history of American professional sports. And there was no time to waste.

"I've seen somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 to 25,000 games," Stern said during an early-evening media conference. "This is the worst one I've ever seen in the NBA. Period."

Clearly, this destroys almost any hope of the Pacers winning an NBA championship, a sad realization given the talent the team has collected. This looks like Reggie Miller's final season, and it's unlikely his team will give him a final shot at a ring. The fans also get jilted, because they paid big money for tickets and will now be left with a team that bears no resemblance to the real Pacers.

But something far more important than one team's season was at stake here. Stern had to strike a blow for civility and basic decency. He had to re-draw the line that's supposed to exist between athletes and fans. It wasn't just his own sport that was on the line; it was all sports, which continue to be marked by escalating violence.

Human nature being what it is, people now will quibble over the specifics of the penalties, scream that Ben Wallace started it and the fans got out of hand.

Here is what we can't forget. They went into the stand. What Artest and his teammates did was patently unforgivable. We may understand their reaction on a very human level; who wouldn't confront some clod who douses them with a beer? But dealing with abuse is an unfortunate part of the job.

At some level, the Pacers have themselves to blame, because they're the ones who continued to keep Artest rather than trade him. They knew he was a time bomb. They knew his peculiar brand of madness might undermine his team. But they knew he could play, and they stayed the course, no matter how many times he ran afoul of the rules.

This is not a time for Donnie Walsh and Larry Bird to be looking at Stern. This is a time for them to be looking in the mirror.

As for Artest himself, the time has come for him to use this opportunity not to promote his music, but to get himself well. The press pass does not entitle us to reach conclusions about another man's physical or mental health, but the body of evidence has grown to the point where it's apparent his problems go beyond simple immaturity and eccentricity.

A normal person does not do the things he's been doing for years.

A normal person does not recline on the scorer's table during an altercation, engaging in what one colleague called "passive provocation."

Of course Stern took his history into account with this verdict. How could he fail to take his past into full account?

The last thing Artest needs now is for people to turn him into some kind of martyr, telling him he was done wrong by the powers-that-be. What he needs now is for people to tell him he does, in fact, need some kind of help.

He's not just a talented basketball player, but he is, by all accounts, a good-hearted person. These days do not have to be wasted. These days could, in fact, prove to be his salvation.

Ultimately, though, this wasn't about Artest or any of the individuals who got caught up in Friday's melee. It was about having the courage to do what was right for fans and players and the game itself.

"We cannot allow our sport to be debased," Stern said.

It's harsh.

But it's fair.

And it's just.

Bob Kravitz is a columnist for The Indianapolis Star. Call him at (317) 444-6643 or e-mail bob.kravitz@indystar.com

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