Yeah, as in, stop talking about "tarring and feathering/gas chambers/et. al." But, I agree, we should stop talking about this, too.
Bagley refused to come into game
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
Livinthedream
All-Star
I just listened to a segment on the CD show. They spent that time talking about how if Bagley was half the player we thought he'd be, there would be no roster imbalance.
Bottom line, Kings fans NEED Bagley to play. Because when there isn't Bagley to kick around anymore, fans will have to come to terms with the fact that this is a team of average players, with a below average coach, with a below average owner who has hired 3 rookie GMs in a row.
Being able to pin losses on Bagley is the one thing keeping some fans from admitting there is no hope and no solid reason for being a fan of this organization.
Last edited:
I’d like to see what this roster would do with a good head coach…..there is a difference between a Walton and a Michael Malone. Monte needs to find that guy.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Absolutely
I don't think anybody has pinned a loss on Bagley this season. He hasn't even played. We do pin being as bad as we are on Bagley not only not living up to being a #2 pick, but barely being available or serviceable. Vlade takes a lot of criticism for that too in case you hadn't noticed.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Well that depends whether you think or not saying we're bad cos our draft pick sucks is "faulting" the player or faulting the situation. Do you disagree that if Bagley was a lot more like Kevin Durant and a lot less like Derrick Williams that we'd probably have made the playoffs by now?
Livinthedream
All-Star
I agree. If Fox were more like Chris Paul, Kings would have made the playoffs. If Walton were more like Rick Adelman, Kings would have made the playoffs. Pointing out that the team would be better x player were a future hall of famer really is not in dispute.
Blaming any player for not being that guy is kinda ridiculous though. Moreso for a mouth piece show host to do it on the radio is kinda over the top. Having the discussion on this forum is fine. I just disagree that it serves any purpose other than to point out that a portion of the fan base wishes the Kings didn't draft Bagley.
So do you think a player shares no blame when they don't live up to expectations? By that logic no player should be criticized ever. You don't think that if Bagley were a starting calibre 4 instead of a near G-leaguer that we wouldn't have a much balanced roster, that we wouldn't need to be starting Moe Harkless or Metu?
It's not like CD just brought Bagley up for the sake of bringing him up. They talked about the roster as a whole having issues. They talked about getting Ben Simmons, about how the core of Haliburton/fox/buddy/Barnes/Holmes doesn't fit. But you only keyed in because someone said something bad about Bagley. Like I said, it's your choice that you choose to interpret it as criticism of the player rather than of the situation. And please don't equate this to random wishing that some G-leaguer would be a hall of fame player. CD said if Bagley played up to half as good as everyone hoped he'd be. #2 pick who literally said he wanted to win MVP his rookie season should at least be serviceable.
Livinthedream
All-Star
CD has taken on the role of Grant as the guy who tries to run people out of town. He's been working on this since draft day.
And no, I don't think a player is responsible for living up to a fan or any other person's expectations. I just don't. No doubt player's want to be the best player they can be. They own their own failure.
As far as criticizing Bagley, who cares at this point what Bagley does or doesn't do. That ship has sailed.
This is a very evolved way to consume sports-as-entertainment. If I were you, though, I wouldn't expect a lot of company, on that island.
So what is a player responsible for?
And sure, the dude's dad and agent routinely make statements about getting him out, Bagley says as much on a podcast himself, and refuses to check into a game when asked, but a radio host is the one responsible for running him out of town. Your chain of accountability is the pinnacle of logic.
Livinthedream
All-Star
Yes. At this point I'm just speaking what's on my mind. Coming to terms with the fact that my fanatic days are just about done.
Livinthedream
All-Star
I said the host has been trying to run him out of town since day one. Not once did I place any responsibility on what Marvin has chosen to do on CD. CD is just not objective when it comes to Marvin.
To repeat my previous post, a player is responsible for himself. He is not responsible for your expectations. That's common sense. Fans don't rule by common sense though. It's by emotion. Take the emotion out of the Bagley situation and you realize he is not relevant to anything going on with the Kings right now. If the Kings organization hasn't been able to find a role for him, trade him, or replace him in the draft or free agency in the past 4 years, well that's on the Kings. Not Bagley.
I've said in the past that they should have traded or released him or whatever they needed to do. The counter argument is always that he has no trade value. Right. No trade value, no value on the court, can't G-league him. All you can do is wait to see if you can package him as filler in a bigger trade. His value is set.
Focus on the players and guys who were brought in to win games. Monte himself chose to go guard heavy. He wasn't backed into a corner by Bagley and his dad. The roster imbalance is on the GM, not the player. Criticizing Bagley for roster imbalance is like criticizing Davion for roster imbalance for being too short to play PF after Monte basically said he could.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He wouldn't be trying to move on from him, if he wasn't a bust, after the best lottery luck in franchise history. Yes he is a bust in that draft at that pick.
I forget who it was that posted this, but it was a great point along the lines of....."the best thing this franchise has done in the last 15 years, was trading Thomas Robinson as soon as they knew he wasn't going to cut it". Most of us knew they should have done the same with Bagley, when he still had some value. Some of us had a strong feeling as soon as the pick was announced
As someone who considers themselves a third-party observer, I don't disagree with this. But, it seems to me that @Livinthedream's argument is, at least partially, why is it that Kings management choosing not to do this with Bagley look like it's being framed as being Bagley's fault, and not management's?
Livinthedream
All-Star
Ha! That was me who posted that.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
Was a great post that I agree with. They should have done the same with Bagley. It's nothing personal against Marvin. If he had been picked further down in that draft, say at #5, that team and fanbase would be having similar conversations
Livinthedream
All-Star
The minute the team had no use for him, they needed to do everything they could to move on.
Remember when we has that guy?
SLAB
Hall of Famer
dude’s also had his own little personal seat away from everyone on the baseline in the past. I’m not even bashing him, it’s just another strange thing in the story that is Marvin Bagels.
But why? That's simply not what you do with players. You don't just move them for the sake of moving them. There are tons of journeymen in the NBA. The thing is, nobody denies Marvin's talent. That's the only reason why we've hung on to him as long as we have, because there's always the question of IF he can 1) stay healthy, 2) put it together. The only difference is that he's now in the last year of his contract. If you had a good deal for him, sure move him. But when you can barely get a late pick for him why move him for the sake of moving him?
Had Bagley not gotten injured again last season, I think things would have panned out very differently.
I still don't understand why you think anybody is criticizing Bagley for roster imbalance. I believe CD's actual words were something along the lines of "if Marvin was half the player we thought he would be, the Kings would be in the playoffs". It's a very weird thing to hear a statement like that and interpret it as blaming Marvin for roster imbalance. And in any case, it doesn't make sense to pick and isolate one statement out of so many hours worth of conversation and discussion. It's one thing if a person only talks about Bagley and claims everything else is fine. If the person says the roster is flawed, we need to move multiple pieces, while also lamenting that Bagley isn't as good as we'd hoped then how can you in good faith claim that they are pinning everything on Bagley?
As far as responsibility goes - does your logic apply to coaches and FO as well? So I guess you can't wish to fire Luke cos he's only accountable and responsible for himself against his own expectations? I mean, I might not agree with Slim's "evolved" way of consuming sports, but if you're saying that basically fans shouldn't have any expectations of anybody then fair enough, but you can't only apply that to players and not the rest of the organization. And if you were truly a pure "consumer" of sports with a strong belief that there should be no fan opinion I frankly don't think you'd be spending time on a sports message board.
Similar threads
- Yahoo Sports
- Personnel moves
