Bagley and Defense

Amit149 said:
I didn't use Gordon as a comp but as a way to show the emphasis on shooting for current youg PF's (like you said - Bagley is a far superior on the offensive end and I would say that Gordon has a clear advantage as a defender).

Griffin is somewhat similar, though a far superior passer and all-around player when drafted imo.
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Bagley was way ahead of Griffen during their freshman seasons. Blake had an amazing sophomore year. He didn't really show what kind of a passer he could be until the pros.
 
Amit149 said:
I didn't use Gordon as a comp but as a way to show the emphasis on shooting for current youg PF's (like you said - Bagley is a far superior on the offensive end and I would say that Gordon has a clear advantage as a defender).

Griffin is somewhat similar, though a far superior passer and all-around player when drafted imo.
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The problem Gordon has is he is a tweener. Everything about him says he should be a SF, but he can't guard 3s and doesn't have the handles for the position. As a PFb he doesn't really have much of a post game and isn't strong enough to guard the stronger 4s around the league. That leaves stretch 4 as his likely position, except he can't shoot.
 
Tetsujin said:
One thing that's ground my gears over the past couple fo days is how this is apparently a concern for Bagley but it wasn't a concern for Luka for some reason.
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Easier to cover up a G/F's crappy defense than a big's. Also with Luka, there was the thought that he was smart enough to eventually be a decent team defender down the line. Bagley hasn't shown any defensive instincts thus far.

Edit: Whoops, Gguod beat me to it!
 
Telemachus said:
The problem Gordon has is he is a tweener. Everything about him says he should be a SF, but he can't guard 3s and doesn't have the handles for the position. As a PFb he doesn't really have much of a post game and isn't strong enough to guard the stronger 4s around the league. That leaves stretch 4 as his likely position, except he can't shoot.
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There are no more 3/4 tweeners, they are combo forwards and in general very valuable. And I disagree with your evaluation completely. Imo he most certainly can guard threes very well. He can guard multiple positions and has potential to guard 1-5. Is not a lockdown guy but very solid defender. Would easily be the best wing defender on the Kings. He is not a pure sf offensively but can guard 3's well. Good versatile forward and valuable as a player type
 
Double-K said:
Came across this article from a while back. While it is overall a pretty nice read, there is one particular moment that is really interesting when the interviewer asked him point blank about his defense. His response:

"I don't know where that came from. Like I said, people take whatever they hear and run with it. That's been a thing all year. I'm not saying I'm a perfect defender. Everybody makes mistakes out there, especially being new (to college) and out there playing. You're not going to be perfect on defense. People see one thing and see that, take it, put it out there. A lot of people see it, read it, they start saying it, then it just trickles down to "Oh, he's just a bad defender." I think it's all BS, to be honest, if I'm being completely honest. I don't worry about it, though. Eventually people will see. That's all I'm working for, to show people my full package, everything I can bring to a team...
... If you go back [to before Duke] and look at everything, you can see that I love to block shots. That's when I was around the basket, back guy communicating. When I came into Duke it was a new situation where I had to learn different positions, and I challenged myself to learn those positions. It was my first time playing on the wings, learning how to jab at a guy coming in, getting back to the corner. It was a learning process for me. "
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It's a worrying quote, but it's pre draft. Everything pre-draft is bs. It's all sales tactics to push you up to the highest draft position possible. Everyone, their mom, and their third cousin is going to say they deserve to go #1. If he still says something like this now, then we have a problem. Then he becomes ignorant like WCS and it will impede his ability to improve or provide value to teams. Until then, it's all just big talk to land the job.
 
Gguod said:
There are no more 3/4 tweeners, they are combo forwards and in general very valuable. And I disagree with your evaluation completely. Imo he most certainly can guard threes very well. He can guard multiple positions and has potential to guard 1-5. Is not a lockdown guy but very solid defender. Would easily be the best wing defender on the Kings. He is not a pure sf offensively but can guard 3's well. Good versatile forward and valuable as a player type
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I caught that. Thx for humoring me. ;)
 
Amit149 said:
Outside the fact that I think that Doncic is currently a better defender for his position, he is a very vesatile player so you would have much more ways to handle is defensive shortcomings.

Unless Bagley will drastically change the way he plays he is limited to the 4-5 positions.
He hasn't shown any rim-protection skills which really limits the possibility to play him as a C and in the modern NBA, unless he develop his shooting and passing, he will be problematic as a PF.

If he was viewed as purely a forward I think people would be less worried about his defense but his shooting is suspect (he has a good chance to become a decent shooter - he shoot a good % last year on a very limited # of attempts, but his poor FT% is worrisome).
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I mean 66% is almost 70%. Hes 19 and I can easily see him being at least 75% from the free throw line down the road
 
Gguod said:
There are no more 3/4 tweeners, they are combo forwards and in general very valuable. And I disagree with your evaluation completely. Imo he most certainly can guard threes very well. He can guard multiple positions and has potential to guard 1-5. Is not a lockdown guy but very solid defender. Would easily be the best wing defender on the Kings. He is not a pure sf offensively but can guard 3's well. Good versatile forward and valuable as a player type
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I respectively disagree. To be a combo forward you have to be able to play both positions effectively. I don't think Gordon is all that effective at either. He is all about potential because of his athleticism, but has yet to give more than a taste for short periods of time. He just finished his 4th season, meaning we have about reached the point where you stop talking about potential.
 
Telemachus said:
I respectively disagree. To be a combo forward you have to be able to play both positions effectively. I don't think Gordon is all that effective at either. He is all about potential because of his athleticism, but has yet to give more than a taste for short periods of time. He just finished his 4th season, meaning we have about reached the point where you stop talking about potential.
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Until/unless Fox develops his outside shot, shooting from the wings is at a premium for the Kings and that's not Gordon's strength. He's not a SF on offense. At this point that's well established.

And he's likely getting near max money in this market. As far as Magic free agents go I'd rather sign Hezonja for $8-$10 million/year for two years with a team option for a third than be the team that overpays for Gordon.
 
EIM86 said:
I mean 66% is almost 70%. Hes 19 and I can easily see him being at least 75% from the free throw line down the road
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It was 62% if I remember correctly

funkykingston said:
Until/unless Fox develops his outside shot, shooting from the wings is at a premium for the Kings and that's not Gordon's strength. He's not a SF on offense. At this point that's well established.
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Yeah Magic tried him at 3 with two traditional bigs and it failed. He needs to play the 4 wherever he signs
 
funkykingston said:
Until/unless Fox develops his outside shot, shooting from the wings is at a premium for the Kings and that's not Gordon's strength. He's not a SF on offense. At this point that's well established.

And he's likely getting near max money in this market. As far as Magic free agents go I'd rather sign Hezonja for $8-$10 million/year for two years with a team option for a third than be the team that overpays for Gordon.
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How about Justin Jackson put on 20 lbs of muscle and knock down his shots? That could help solve a problem
 
An improved Justin Jackson would of course help However I doubt he ever develops a reliable 3 point shot He strikes me as a reliable sf off the bench who will carve out a useful role. If the Kings are serious about winning they must do better
 
Bagley's experience at Duke guarding wings on the periphery is going to be a great help for him in coming into the NBA. If he didn't have that experience at Duke and was just relegated to playing inside (like Carter) he would need another year of development to start to get used to guarding out at the 3 point line. Thanks, Coach K. You saved us a year in the growing process!
 
In the NBA, a player's position is largely determined by which position he can defend.
The league places emphasis on team defense. Offenses are potent now and the rules favor the offense.
The bar for the Kings defense is not that high yet, so Bagley will fit right in.
The rook wants to be here and plays with a lot of passion. He will figure out defense because he is a man "who got skills."
 
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