Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?

[Capt. Factorial]

Also, they should have a rule that if you make the finals, you are capped at the worst lottery odds the following year should you miss the playoffs. No finals one year and first pick in the draft the next year nonsense.

I'm just shocked that nobody has ever come up with a draft-order assignment system that would fix intentional tanking and also completely solve this "David Robinson/Tyrese Haliburton Injury" problem.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

That’s not a bull reason. The Jazz were intentionally holding guys out last year to tank and they were penalized for it. This is not a strategy we should implore. Reduce minutes? Sure. Trade guys if the options presents itself? Sure. Intentially sit guys, naw I’m not down with that.

"load management". If it were me, I'd be making sure that Sabonis doesn't get further injured, so that he can be as healthy as possible for a trade

 

[sactowndog]

As of this morning, 2.5.

But we need to keep in mind that we have had the hardest strength-of-schedule in the NBA by far, and a very important cog in Keegan has been out. We're not going to spend nearly as much time playing 4-guard lineups once Keegs is back. And our schedule is going to lighten up considerably.

By a hand count (so maybe a flub or two) if we include the next four games (Keegan will probably miss these too)...
First 18 games we face 13 teams currently at least .600 (72% of games)
Last 64 games we face 21 teams currently at least .600 (33% of games)

We're going to start winning some games. This opening stretch of 18 games absolutely devastated us, and we're likely to come out of it 10 games under .500, but after that, we're going to start creeping back. I just want to make sure that y'all are ready for that to happen.

We faced

* Lakers no Doncic, Labron
* OKC no Williams, no Chet
* Golden State no Curry, no Green
* OKC Chet 10 min, no Williams
* Atl no Young
* SA Castle 4 min, no Wemby.

So it’s not like we got all of their best shots. But you are correct, we probably will start creeping back because teams like Memphis, Dallas and the Jazz are orders of magnitude smarter than us.

None of them want to be in 9-10-11 spots. Particularly in this draft.

 

[sactowndog]

Not sure if this was directed towards me but if so I wasn’t saying I want the team to go for the play in. I’m saying if the Kings are not finishing with a top 3 worst record then there’s not enough upside with the current system in finishing 5th vs finishing 10th to just tank for the 5th spot. In that case the Kings would have to have a worse record than the Wizards, Nets, Pacers, Pelicans and with this current roster I think it’s unlikely, so unless they dump Sabonis, LaVine and DeRozan the team isn’t likely to finish bottom 3.

If there’s deals to dump those 3 and the other vets and completely bottom out I’m all for it, I just don’t think it’s realistic. But if this is the roster that stays, we are not finishing bottom 3 so might as well go for the playin instead of tanking for the 5th spot.

Bottom 4 picks all get the same lottery odds.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

So it’s not like we got all of their best shots. But you are correct, we probably will start creeping back because teams like Memphis, Dallas, and the Jazz are orders of magnitude smarter than us.

I really don't know why you waste your time following the unquestioned dumbest franchise in professional sports.

 

[sactowndog]

If I was a player I’d be pissed if the team implored that strategy. If im ready to go, im not sitting out so the team can increase their odds of a higher draft pick to replace me with.

If I had to guess we are heading towards a 6-9 finish in the race to the bottom regardless what we do. Would be helpful if the Clips, Grizz and Mavs would pull their heads out of there ***.

Also, they should have a rule that if you make the finals, you are capped at the worst lottery odds the following year should you miss the playoffs. No finals one year and first pick in the draft the next year nonsense.

OKC has the Clippers and the Jazz’s first round if not top 8 pick. Atl has New Orleans first round pick.

Clippers and New Orleans will not be tanking as no one wants to give OKC yet another top 5 pick.

I really don't know why you waste your time following the unquestioned dumbest franchise in professional sports.

Because as a Sacramento resident what other Professional or FBS options does one have

 

[The_Jamal]

As of this morning, 2.5.

But we need to keep in mind that we have had the hardest strength-of-schedule in the NBA by far, and a very important cog in Keegan has been out. We're not going to spend nearly as much time playing 4-guard lineups once Keegs is back. And our schedule is going to lighten up considerably.

By a hand count (so maybe a flub or two) if we include the next four games (Keegan will probably miss these too)...
First 18 games we face 13 teams currently at least .600 (72% of games)
Last 64 games we face 21 teams currently at least .600 (33% of games)

We're going to start winning some games. This opening stretch of 18 games absolutely devastated us, and we're likely to come out of it 10 games under .500, but after that, we're going to start creeping back. I just want to make sure that y'all are ready for that to happen.

Is that factored in with like Luka/Bron out, Jalen/Chet out, Jalen out, Young out, etc?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Because as a Sacramento resident what other Professional or FBS options does one have

Non-local teams?

 

[sactowndog]

Non-local teams?

Hard to attend those games

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Is that factored in with like Luka/Bron out, Jalen/Chet out, Jalen out, Young out, etc?

Strength of schedule I took directly from BB-ref, I doubt they correct for players sitting but I don't know the formula. Obviously teams over/under .600 as of today is based on their actual record, so long-term missing players are accounted for, but you could make an objection for only-missed-the-Kings games.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Hard to attend those games

Since when is attending games the only way to follow or support? I haven't attended a (men's) game since 2015.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm just shocked that nobody has ever come up with a draft-order assignment system that would fix intentional tanking and also completely solve this "David Robinson/Tyrese Haliburton Injury" problem.

I know one of the fixes people proposed was taking multi-year windows in assigning lotto odds. The bonus on that is teams that are on the upswing can play to win but still get a good pick to keep building, while teams that have a one year blip down due to an injury or whatever don't get stacked in a down year. Seems reasonable especially with the play-in system seeming permanent.

 

[carmichaeldave]

Dear lord... a media personality steeped in Kings basketball should not need ChatGPT to generate a rebuild plan.

Come on, a LITTLE credit.

I know what MY plan would be, I’ve been saying it very publicly for a while now.

The fun of the exercise was to see just how aligned (mostly) the computer was. There were some errors (overvaluing the amount of picks we’d get for example), but the philosophy was pretty spot on.

It also included a sample press conference from the GM and talking points to share with fans.

Just an exercise for what is surely going to be a long and arduous season. Not that serious.

 

[sactowndog]

Since when is attending games the only way to follow or support? I haven't attended a (men's) game since 2015.

Because if I am a fan of a team I want to see them live. This is not hard. I also believe in supporting the local team even as hard as Vivek makes that point.

 

[MizzouKing]

Quite literally, one of the only things, if not the only thing, that still gives me hope that this franchise will, one day, be able to right that ship is San Antonio (another small market) landing the number 1 pick to then go out and draft Tim Duncan. If a franchise like San Antonio can luck out, land the number 1 pick, and go out there and draft, arguably, the greatest PF to ever play the game, and then proceed to go on the best run that franchise has ever seen, I have hope that this franchise will, too, be greeted with that same stroke of luck.

Or in other words, the sun even shines on a DOG'S butt once in awhile.

I'm with ya! We are that butt, and we are long overdue.

 

[Spike]

I'm just shocked that nobody has ever come up with a draft-order assignment system that would fix intentional tanking and also completely solve this "David Robinson/Tyrese Haliburton Injury" problem.

I know the WBNA is weighted, but I'll defer to @Mr. S£im Citrus for the details. I think that would mitigate the problem somewhat.

 

[ESP47]

I agree with the points on AI but I also think we're being the fun police as it pertains to Dave.

 

[admira1]

I agree with the points on AI but I also think we're being the fun police as it pertains to Dave.

Problem is when a guy like him puts stuff like this out there, it gets picked up as "according to insider, this is what the Kings are doing!" - I've seen multiple "reports" based on his tweets about this. It's not all fun and innocence when it has real world impact. That said...it's also just basketball and maybe isn't actually that serious to police lol

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Mod Note: I've moved the majority of the AI discussion to a new thread in the Lounge (the posts directly relating to Dave's suggestions regarding a rebuild stay here). It won't be perfectly clean, because some posts are getting quoted in both threads, but it is what it is.

Link

 

[BuddyBuckets]

Tanking teams - Pacers, Wizards, Kings, Brooklyn, Dallas, Memphis, Charlotte, Jazz.
The plus side for us is that LAC and New Orleans have no reason to tank with no draft picks. They may be awful enough it won't matter, but LAC should get it together.

Saw someone the other day saying Flagg in this draft wouldn't go top 5. No disrespect to Flagg, but this draft is that good. If that's the case, this team absolutely needs to find a way in the top 5.

Looking at mock's its all a bunch of big forwards, and tall point guards. If Sac does this right, it doesn't need to be a 5 year tank, we can get it done in 2-3.

 

[ESP47]

Tanking teams - Pacers, Wizards, Kings, Brooklyn, Dallas, Memphis, Charlotte, Jazz.
The plus side for us is that LAC and New Orleans have no reason to tank with no draft picks. They may be awful enough it won't matter, but LAC should get it together.

Saw someone the other day saying Flagg in this draft wouldn't go top 5. No disrespect to Flagg, but this draft is that good. If that's the case, this team absolutely needs to find a way in the top 5.

Looking at mock's its all a bunch of big forwards, and tall point guards. If Sac does this right, it doesn't need to be a 5 year tank, we can get it done in 2-3.

I think you're right here and an outright tank is going to be what it takes but I don't see Sac ever committing to an outright tank so they'll more than likely be right on the outside looking in on the franchise players.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Because if I am a fan of a team I want to see them live. This is not hard.

That's understandable but not really what I asked. If I were still in the rooting-for-teams business, I would want to see the team I supported live, but I wouldn't refuse to support them if I couldn't. I've been to more Kings games in Atlanta (4) than I have in Sacramento (0); hell, I've been to more Kings games in Chicago (1). Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who rooted for the Kings from 1989 to 2017 and not only is not from Sacramento but, outside of four months of A-School in San Diego and eight months stationed in Bremerton before the USS Carl Vinson relocated to the east coast for a refit, has never been within 500 miles of California.

I also believe in supporting the local team even as hard as Vivek makes that point.

I'm a Squid who was raised by Squid parents. I didn't have the same home address for five years in a row until I was thirty, so I can't really relate to the concept of 'roots', or having an attachment to my 'hometown', as I don't consider myself to have a 'hometown.' Regionalism has never factored into my affiliation with sports (and tribalism only barely), so when people say stuff like they can't root for a team because they're not from there, it doesn't compute to me. Besides, if I were supposed to form my sports allegiances based on where I was born (South Carolina), I wouldn't have a team to root for, anyway.

Based on where I live now, I should be a Hawks fan, by that reasoning. For who? For what?

 

[hrdboild]

I agree with the points on AI but I also think we're being the fun police as it pertains to Dave.

I was just trying to give him some context for the reaction. As I wrote previously, I fully support and appreciate his campaign to get this team's front office and owner to accept reality and sell off the vets.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

I think you're right here and an outright tank is going to be what it takes but I don't see Sac ever committing to an outright tank so they'll more than likely be right on the outside looking in on the franchise players.

Ya I'm really hoping this year is out of Vivek's control. Between now and Christmas we have
Thunder
Grizz (2x)
Nuggets
Wolves
Suns
Jazz
Rockets (2x)
Heat
Pacers
Blazers (2x)
Pistons

9 easy losers, and 5 could be winners. I assume we beat the Pacers, but the most important ones to me are the Grizzlies & Jazz games. In a perfect world we do no better than 1-2 in those 3.
2-12 is realistic before christmas which puts us at 5-23.

By then we are approaching trade season, etc.. And we may be far enough in a hole that even winning some games we shouldn't wont matter.

 

[sactowndog]

Tanking teams - Pacers, Wizards, Kings, Brooklyn, Dallas, Memphis, Charlotte, Jazz.
The plus side for us is that LAC and New Orleans have no reason to tank with no draft picks. They may be awful enough it won't matter, but LAC should get it together.

Saw someone the other day saying Flagg in this draft wouldn't go top 5. No disrespect to Flagg, but this draft is that good. If that's the case, this team absolutely needs to find a way in the top 5.

Looking at mock's its all a bunch of big forwards, and tall point guards. If Sac does this right, it doesn't need to be a 5 year tank, we can get it done in 2-3.

In ESPN’s mock draft
2. DYBANTSA SF
3. BOOZER PF
4. AMENT PF
5. WILSON PF

Kings at 6 draft Brown a 6’ 5” guard

If we ever want to balance this guard heavy roster we need to be top 5 or be willing to reach.

 

[sactowndog]

That's understandable but not really what I asked. If I were still in the rooting-for-teams business, I would want to see the team I supported live, but I wouldn't refuse to support them if I couldn't. I've been to more Kings games in Atlanta (4) than I have in Sacramento (0); hell, I've been to more Kings games in Chicago (1). Keep in mind that you're talking to someone who rooted for the Kings from 1989 to 2017 and not only is not from Sacramento but, outside of four months of A-School in San Diego and eight months stationed in Bremerton before the USS Carl Vinson relocated to the east coast for a refit, has never been within 500 miles of California.


I'm a Squid who was raised by Squid parents. I didn't have the same home address for five years in a row until I was thirty, so I can't really relate to the concept of 'roots', or having an attachment to my 'hometown', as I don't consider myself to have a 'hometown.' Regionalism has never factored into my affiliation with sports (and tribalism only barely), so when people say stuff like they can't root for a team because they're not from there, it doesn't compute to me. Besides, if I were supposed to form my sports allegiances based on where I was born (South Carolina), I wouldn't have a team to root for, anyway.

Based on where I live now, I should be a Hawks fan, by that reasoning. For who? For what?

Given how they are playing a better question is why aren’t you a Hawks fan? Or Georgia Tech Football. So many options

In my case I grew up in LA and was a Dodger, Rams and Lakers fan.

I changed to being a Clipper fan with the Manning draft pick because I could get season tickets. When the Rams moved to St Louis I stopped following them.

Upon moving up here I stopped being a Dodger fan. Never really could be a Giant/49er fan but switched my allegiance from the Clippers to the Kings and bought season tickets.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

In ESPN’s mock draft
2. DYBANTSA SF
3. BOOZER PF
4. AMENT PF
5. WILSON PF

Kings at 6 draft Brown a 6’ 5” guard

If we ever want to balance this guard heavy roster we need to be top 5 or be willing to reach.

Stay away from ament slow not explosive can’t finish at the rim also we don’t have a lead guard or wing creator

 

[sactowndog]

Stay away from ament slow not explosive can’t finish at the rim also we don’t have a lead guard or wing creator

We literally are playing 2 guards at forward currently. This team has to get some real forwards.

 

[BuddyBuckets]

In ESPN’s mock draft
2. DYBANTSA SF
3. BOOZER PF
4. AMENT PF
5. WILSON PF

Kings at 6 draft Brown a 6’ 5” guard

If we ever want to balance this guard heavy roster we need to be top 5 or be willing to reach.

Sadly, I think we still need a point guard at some point. I'd love one of those forwards in the top 5. But realistically, Schroder, Russ, LaVine, Demar should be completely ignored when drafting.

If you count Keon, Nique, Carter, Keegan, Maxime as "long term" guys.
You still need starting 1, 4 and 5. Backup 4, and backup 2-3 type.

 

[gunks]

BPA all day.

My ideal 2026/27 roster:
PG: ???/Carter
SG: Keon/???
SF: Keegan/???
PF: ???/???
C: ???/???*

I don't have Nique up there because we haven't seen enough of him at the NBA level to really put him in a position yet, but theoretically he can play 1-3.

If we tear it down we need talent at all positions. Fit won't be relevant.


* I'd entertain keeping Domas if he's down to be our vet during the rebuild and nobody offers anything good for him.