Are the Kings entering a rebuild phase?
- Thread starter Tetsujin
- Start date
QWERTYLICIOUS
Starter
I sure as heck hope this is all the early signs of a proper rebuild, endorsed (finally) by Vivek himself. However, until I actually see a proper rebuild with my own two eyes, I don't trust Vivek enough to agree to it, so in terms of the poll, my answer right now will have to be "No", but I will gladly accept that alternate if Vivek ever ends up committing to it.
If we held onto Fox it would reset the timer for Vivek eventually seeing the need to blow it up. Like, let's say that Vivek is 100% solely responsible for Zach and is now being trashed nightly for it. The fans are not coming and those that do are mocking him in the arena. Every decision is second guessed.
That is only happening now because of the Fox trade.
so he is just going on vibes.
Padrino
All-Star
Hah. I generally don't trust Carmichael Dave with the ins and outs of how most NBA transactions function, but his "vibes" are technically correct, even if he's not quite aware of the details. The reason December is typically the month that in-season trading begins is that free agents who signed their contracts in the off-season become eligible for trade on December 15th. Most front offices prefer to wait until all other teams have all available assets on the table before dealing begins.
It's one of the reasons I've pegged the 25-game mark as a useful barometer for this season. It takes us to mid-December. After that time, you should know something about your roster and how you wish to proceed. If you want to begin offloading vets, that's the time to start making calls.
Oh I know we can't do much of anything until December but to me it also signals that he's about a month ahead of the skis here. All it takes is a win streak and Keegan coming back to change everything again. I just don't think Dave is much more than a fan with a loud voice these days.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
He has to be ahead of time on anything, if he wants to be able to imply "I told you so" or that he predicted or knew about it
Padrino
All-Star
While I don't disagree re: Dave's value as an "insider", I do think that any kind of win streak before mid-December is highly unlikely, especially since Keegan might not even be back on the court before mid-December. In the Kings' next 15 games, they face exactly 3 opponents who currently possess losing records. The vast majority of their opponents in that span are expected playoff teams. Before the season began, I predicted they'd go 7-18 across their first 25, and they're about on pace for that result.
Just to reach .400 once mid-December arrives, the Kings are going to have to seriously outperform expectations while likely without Keegan, and while likely with Domas nursing injuries. I'm hoping everyone involved can already see the writing on the wall.
Interesting. The way he's talking almost sounds like a script he got from somebody. Doesn't seem to be to "wishy-washy" about what he's saying.
This sort of makes me believe some of our guys had more value than initially reported this summer. But Vivek didn't want to sell. Perhaps now, after the horrid start, Perry's in his ear saying "Hey, we can get X,Y,Z for all these guys. Hey, there's THREE franchise-caliber talents at the top of the draft"
The real indicator that this isn't just noise is trading Domas. Can't JUST trade DDR and Monk and call that a rebuild. And as much as it might bum us all out, Keegan/Keon should be on the table too in a true rebuild.
Nique/Maxime would be the only 2 I wouldnt listen on, because of their rookie scale deals. Everyone else in a rebuild should be on the table.
This sort of makes me believe some of our guys had more value than initially reported this summer. But Vivek didn't want to sell. Perhaps now, after the horrid start, Perry's in his ear saying "Hey, we can get X,Y,Z for all these guys. Hey, there's THREE franchise-caliber talents at the top of the draft"
The real indicator that this isn't just noise is trading Domas. Can't JUST trade DDR and Monk and call that a rebuild. And as much as it might bum us all out, Keegan/Keon should be on the table too in a true rebuild.
Nique/Maxime would be the only 2 I wouldnt listen on, because of their rookie scale deals. Everyone else in a rebuild should be on the table.
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Jkbiker
Starter
Probably a reaction to news today that Mavs have fired Nico
He's one of my early favorites too.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
and the timing lines up with them walking off the court in the 3rd quarter. Could be that they went into the office and had a long talk and maybe decided to finally change course. One can only hope
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
I don't think it is likely either. I'm just saying that I am not yet convinced that Vivek is signed off on this yet. I do think that by January 1 it will be pretty damned clear there is no path forward to anyone, and Vivek will have had to sit through another dozen nights of getting booed by what few fans are in attendance and wonder how we got from a promising upstart in 2022 to absolutely hopeless three years later.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
I'll believe it will start when LaVine or Sabonis get traded.
Once started, it's reasonable to expect it to take 3-4 years, minimum 2 years. If we're unlucky 6 years.
Once started, it's reasonable to expect it to take 3-4 years, minimum 2 years. If we're unlucky 6 years.
6 years is unlucky?
The last one took 16 years and earned us a single first-round exit from the playoffs. Just so we know where are when we ask for a rebuild.
Insomniacal Fan
Starter
We've discussed before how we delineate rebuilds as being somewhat arbitrary; I think every GM we've had has had a chance to radically transform the team (except maybe Pete, who would have had to trade Cousins in order to significantly alter the team's fate.)
I know it's not universally believed here, but at the very least there's really good evidence Vlade intentionally kicked off a rebuild by finally trading Cousins.
I think the timer starts when we start removing major pieces
But when did we actually rebuild in all of that? Arguably you could say we tried to tank the year we drafted Reke and then Cousins. Team pretty much went all in then with some lousy results. And tried again when we traded Cousins, and by all means we were in position to have a team as stacked as OKC if we had drafted correctly but instead we blew all the picks.
Realistically without landing a generational talent I think 5 years is a realistic goal, where the team bottoms out over 2 years, you trade all your assets for picks, and by year 3 you are trying to win and committed to only playing guys and figuring out their future, and selling those you don't want to keep before they are worthless. Blazers right now would be in year 4 of this.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
The Kings have rebuilt before, but got antsy after 2 seasons and tried to skip steps. DEVELOPMENT is the only thing that matters now. A rebuild without development means NOTHING.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Hey if he brought the luck to land AJ, Peterson, or Boozer bring him on, lol.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Maybe not though. The Kings I would imagine would defacto be building with Keegan as kind of the big money guy. We still don't really know what he is. But Clifford, Carter, Keon, Keegan, etc. are all older and won't need 3 years to develop. If the Kings can get a transcendent star in one of the next two drafts, and the top 3 in this one might be day 1 impact guys, this might be a quick turnaround. At the very least Clifford, Carter, Keegan, etc. if used right and are made to actually LOOK GOOD. Then you have a crop of trade assets. That's how it's done.
Felt like the whole time for me. Fanbase was rooting for Lins the whole way, just looking for the next draft pick. I don't buy CD's view of "never actually did a rebuild" - of course we did. We did it for 16 years. Lotto pick after lotto pick after lotto pick. It just never worked, because there's no guarantee it will. Great, sell everything off and start all over again, again. Maybe G1C will host its fifth-ever playoff game before it gets torn down. Maybe it won't.
This kind of makes it sound like you think that it only counts as an attempted rebuild if it works?
macadocious
Starter
That's different than trading for future assets. We traded picks for cap space during the Vlade rebuild, then used it on Koufos, Rondo and Belinelli. Then we did terrible in the actual drafts themselves, and, if you recall, even though we got Fox, we missed out on Tatum because of that swap. If we are able to turn any combo of Lavine, Derozen, Schoeder into a single first round pick + a young player or two, that would be a win.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
There is certainly a guarantee it almost always won't however and the Kings have written the book on this. To the extent they got shut out in the predraft workout circuit for a few years. Nik rocks? Good, then let him build value through playing. Jimmer, same thing. TRob. Bagley. If they aren't all that, build them up and trade them at a high, not from the little box the Kings placed them in from the start.
The Kings rebuilt but it was always a half ***ed trying to play both sides to some degree rebuild with a coach not wanting to soil their record with L's. The Kings never truly had the patience to develop almost anyone unless they were a home run. That said they even nearly F'd Fox' development up. It's only gotten worse over the last few seasons. They've been trading picks like they were the Webber Kings and really could use the salary or space. No, you do that when you are contending. If not? Development better darn well be at least half the picture being created. The Thunder weren't just a tank team. They were a team that actually gave reps to the players they drafted or traded for. Jalen Williams, SGA, Dort. Then a little swing the right way brings them Chet.
Christie is the exact type of coach for a rebuild, cheap and a rah rah guy. Not a make sense of the chicken **** type of coach. Once Fox was traded, let alone for 50 cents on the dollar a smart team rebuilds. The Kings still weren't a contender so lateral moves were just plain stupid to begin with. Petrie lateralling out of the Webber team made some sort of sense since the starting point was so much higher. This team outside of one surprise year has been in the exact spot a team doesn't want to be in for more than a year at most.
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