[Game] 64/82: Knickerbockers @ Kings, 10 MAR 2025, 7:30p PT/10:30p ET
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
- Start date
Team already lost when they started Monk. Monk is best off the bench because he doesn't play D. His inability to defend pick n roll put too much pressure on the team and as a result someone is going to be wide open for shots. Better to start Ellis. The fact that DeRozen and Lavine don't play D also make it that much more important to start Ellis.
Doug’s record is pretty well correlated to having an injury which forces him to play Ellis. Our starters fit horribly and that’s on Monte.
he has done a great job of steering us into that 9/10 seed where we likely miss the playoffs and lose our draft pick. Monte excels at killing excitement and hope.
he has done a great job of steering us into that 9/10 seed where we likely miss the playoffs and lose our draft pick. Monte excels at killing excitement and hope.
Frustrating game. Not that this was the sole reason we lost today, but we definitely still have roster imbalances we need to address during the offseason. I’m still not liking this trio of Monk, LaVine, and DeRozan.
I actually think a trade centered around Malik Monk for Cam Johnson (might need a 3rd team to take Monk and send assets to BKN) would help balance us out a lot. We’d then elevate Ellis to the starting lineup and convince DeRozan to come off the bench in favor of Johnson. With a resigned LaRavia, that leaves us with…
PG - Ellis (30) / Carter (18)
SG - Lavine (34) / Carter (6) / DeRozan (8)
SF - Johnson (26) / DeRozan (22)
PF - Murray (30) / LaRavia (14) / Johnson (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)
LaVine = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Ellis = 30 min
Johnson = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Carter = 24 min
LaRavia = 14 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
We’re probably lacking some playmaking in the starting lineup by starting Ellis at PG, but perhaps we make up for that up by having 5 excellent 3PT shooters on the floor. Not to mention we’d be bigger/longer and better defensively by swapping Monk for Ellis and DeRozan for Johnson.
We’d still have DeRozan to lead the bench unit as our super 6th man and keep our offense afloat when our starters are resting, and we’d free up more minutes for Carter to step up, develop, and carve out a nice role.
I’ll also say that this starting lineup could give Murray some opportunity to step into a bigger offensive role since Ellis and Johnson don’t nearly have the usage that Monk and DeRozan do.
Lastly, we could also still look to resign Lyles to give us some deep bench depth and give us a PF/C type player to use in certain matchups since guys like Johnson, Murray, and LaRavia are more SF/PFs.
I actually think a trade centered around Malik Monk for Cam Johnson (might need a 3rd team to take Monk and send assets to BKN) would help balance us out a lot. We’d then elevate Ellis to the starting lineup and convince DeRozan to come off the bench in favor of Johnson. With a resigned LaRavia, that leaves us with…
PG - Ellis (30) / Carter (18)
SG - Lavine (34) / Carter (6) / DeRozan (8)
SF - Johnson (26) / DeRozan (22)
PF - Murray (30) / LaRavia (14) / Johnson (4)
C - Sabonis (34) / Valanciunas (14)
LaVine = 34 min
Sabonis = 34 min
Ellis = 30 min
Johnson = 30 min
Murray = 30 min
DeRozan = 30 min
Carter = 24 min
LaRavia = 14 min
Valanciunas = 14 min
We’re probably lacking some playmaking in the starting lineup by starting Ellis at PG, but perhaps we make up for that up by having 5 excellent 3PT shooters on the floor. Not to mention we’d be bigger/longer and better defensively by swapping Monk for Ellis and DeRozan for Johnson.
We’d still have DeRozan to lead the bench unit as our super 6th man and keep our offense afloat when our starters are resting, and we’d free up more minutes for Carter to step up, develop, and carve out a nice role.
I’ll also say that this starting lineup could give Murray some opportunity to step into a bigger offensive role since Ellis and Johnson don’t nearly have the usage that Monk and DeRozan do.
Lastly, we could also still look to resign Lyles to give us some deep bench depth and give us a PF/C type player to use in certain matchups since guys like Johnson, Murray, and LaRavia are more SF/PFs.
Having Monk and DeRosan coming off the bench would be devastating to opponents. Their combined firepower and Monk's energy puts a tremendous amount of pressure in a second unit vs. second unit situation. Their defensive weakness would not be so glaring against bench players. If one or both player show hot, then extend their minutes.
Such a modification would leave shooters LaVine and Murray to be the primary offensive scorers, with Ellis, LaRavia Sabonis capable contributing shooters as well. The improved defensive balance is obvious if these five are the starters. Scoring is there, defense is there.
Too often the team appears to stand and watch when DeRosan has the ball. His game is to shoot first and pass when desperate. There is no doubt that he is accomplished at scoring, his stats reflect that. However, it is not team ball and is not leading to consistent winning. He brought that game with him to the Kings and is not about to change at this point in his career. His skills would be more appreciated if surrounded by lesser accomplished bench players and perhaps closing games. DeRosan helps himself at the expense of the rest of the starters.
Monk has tried mightily to become a point guard, give him credit for that. But he is primarily a shooter and offensive dynamo at times. He is a great guy to have on the team for multiple reasons. Inserted in a starting line up with multiple shooters is suppressing his talents. It has negatively affected his shooting since his main role as point guard should be to distribute. Taking a shot when other options may be available is a distraction that has not served him well. As (nearly) 6th man of the year, the team had an extended glimpse of how he can best be a major contributor.
Such an experiment fails for many reasons not related to logic. It CAN be done but, so far, nobody with the ability to attempt it has come forward to give it a try.
Such a modification would leave shooters LaVine and Murray to be the primary offensive scorers, with Ellis, LaRavia Sabonis capable contributing shooters as well. The improved defensive balance is obvious if these five are the starters. Scoring is there, defense is there.
Too often the team appears to stand and watch when DeRosan has the ball. His game is to shoot first and pass when desperate. There is no doubt that he is accomplished at scoring, his stats reflect that. However, it is not team ball and is not leading to consistent winning. He brought that game with him to the Kings and is not about to change at this point in his career. His skills would be more appreciated if surrounded by lesser accomplished bench players and perhaps closing games. DeRosan helps himself at the expense of the rest of the starters.
Monk has tried mightily to become a point guard, give him credit for that. But he is primarily a shooter and offensive dynamo at times. He is a great guy to have on the team for multiple reasons. Inserted in a starting line up with multiple shooters is suppressing his talents. It has negatively affected his shooting since his main role as point guard should be to distribute. Taking a shot when other options may be available is a distraction that has not served him well. As (nearly) 6th man of the year, the team had an extended glimpse of how he can best be a major contributor.
Such an experiment fails for many reasons not related to logic. It CAN be done but, so far, nobody with the ability to attempt it has come forward to give it a try.
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In my opinion, coach Christie has a big dilemma to make. Do you put winning over players ego? Or do you honor ego over winning for the sake of chemistry? If he desire winning, I feel that Malik need to come off the bench (which is the sole reason why he's been doing it for years for lack of defense). Trust me, defense win games!!! When Malik and Sabonis were out, the Kings play great D and were constantly giving plenty of opportunities to scores. But we can't afford to exchange baskets by not playing D, that's not the best way to win games. What if you have an off game? It's over, right? But defense always give you a chance. With the way the team is structured, they need a couple great defenders in the starting lineups to help out the team defense or it's going to be a long night. That's why Jonas and Keon actually make the team better defensively than Sabonis and Malik. We have enough scoring with Lavine, DeRozen and Keegan.
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If kings was smart they would gladly trade him for a PF and balance the roster while he still has some value left. Next year of course. This year I'm happy to have him.
Now if Monk and Rozen wouldn't shoot so dam much id be a happy man. Lavine and Murray should be taking the most shots, followed by Rozen then monk.
Now if Monk and Rozen wouldn't shoot so dam much id be a happy man. Lavine and Murray should be taking the most shots, followed by Rozen then monk.
so in the last month and some change, the Kings have only beaten two Playoff teams, the Wolves on February 3rd and the Rockets on March 1st. The rest of the wins are against sub par and lottery teams. The Kings are what they are at this point and have been all season long with Brown too. In the off season, hopefully Monte makes some necessary changes rather than giving this group of players another run with Christie, should he get an extension.
The LaVine trade will go down as one of the worst in Kings history
* you blocked your highest net rating player from his best position and your lottery pick that was so talented you had to draft yet another point guard.
* you used up available cap space you needed to sign a wing
* you made sure you were good enough to lose your draft pick but bad enough to miss the play-offs (quite a feat)
* you made the team much older
* you lost the confidence of your two best players and the good players who can get out of town will.
* you blocked your highest net rating player from his best position and your lottery pick that was so talented you had to draft yet another point guard.
* you used up available cap space you needed to sign a wing
* you made sure you were good enough to lose your draft pick but bad enough to miss the play-offs (quite a feat)
* you made the team much older
* you lost the confidence of your two best players and the good players who can get out of town will.
We we never gonna tank so that pick talk is nonsense and even if we traded fox for straight picks only we still lose our pick with all the bad teams.
Derozan doesn’t fit so next year ellis should be starting when Derozan is traded so we didn’t block ellis. Unless we trade DD for a bigger wing and Ellis still comes off the bench
Derozan doesn’t fit so next year ellis should be starting when Derozan is traded so we didn’t block ellis. Unless we trade DD for a bigger wing and Ellis still comes off the bench
Vinny, I agree with your opinions 99.9% of the time. The DeRosan issue just happens to be a point of divergence.
There is no doubt that DeRosan has game. That game could fit on any team and it would not change one iota. As a scorer, he will get his points regardless of the offensive scheme, player construct, or need. And that is where he detracts from the Kings.
The Kings have plenty of players with offensive talent (some of those with defensive skills as well). Being ball-dominate, DeRosan deprives those teammates from contributing their offensive production. When he gets the ball, the players pause and wait for the inevitable shot or move to rebounding position. Only under extreme pressure is he willing to give up the ball. LaVine, Murray, and even Monk could easily handle the offensive load of the starters.
DeRosan would be most useful with other bench players in the game when a strong offensive player can carry the load. Since that is not a likely scenario, it would be best for him to move on and be dealt for a player that fills team needs while he still has trade value.
DeRosan's offense production, while impressive, is offset by a lack of defensive expertise. Some forum member more skilled than me likely has the precise data on this issue. But by appearances, his point production is given back by half on the defensive end.
The only way to test these opinions is for DeRosan to sit out games due to injury or illness and evaluate the results. Of course, that circumstance is not a goal so we are only able to speculate.
There is no doubt that DeRosan has game. That game could fit on any team and it would not change one iota. As a scorer, he will get his points regardless of the offensive scheme, player construct, or need. And that is where he detracts from the Kings.
The Kings have plenty of players with offensive talent (some of those with defensive skills as well). Being ball-dominate, DeRosan deprives those teammates from contributing their offensive production. When he gets the ball, the players pause and wait for the inevitable shot or move to rebounding position. Only under extreme pressure is he willing to give up the ball. LaVine, Murray, and even Monk could easily handle the offensive load of the starters.
DeRosan would be most useful with other bench players in the game when a strong offensive player can carry the load. Since that is not a likely scenario, it would be best for him to move on and be dealt for a player that fills team needs while he still has trade value.
DeRosan's offense production, while impressive, is offset by a lack of defensive expertise. Some forum member more skilled than me likely has the precise data on this issue. But by appearances, his point production is given back by half on the defensive end.
The only way to test these opinions is for DeRosan to sit out games due to injury or illness and evaluate the results. Of course, that circumstance is not a goal so we are only able to speculate.