[Game] 59/82: Kings @ Grizzlies 23 FEB 2026, 5pm PT/8pm ET

[ShastaKingsFan]

I’ll never understand the hate Keegan gets from Kings fans.

Again, criticism of a player not producing up to a minimal expectation in any area, is not hate.

Sabonis deserves criticism as well, for not improving his shooting, since it really hurt the team way back in their one playoff series

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I'll rip $50 to a charity of your choice right now if you quote me saying Keegan is prime Kawhi (when we obviously weren't joking during a game thread because he probably had an awesome play)

“Y’all” was a general statement… anyone that said slow down got ripped

 

[Joshyjosh31]

Again, criticism of a player not producing up to a minimal expectation in any area, is not hate.

Sabonis deserves criticism as well, for not improving his shooting, since it really hurt the team way back in their one playoff series

If you’re not glazing a player it’s hate lol

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Again, criticism of a player not producing up to a minimal expectation in any area, is not hate.

Which then begs the follow-up question, who gets to be the arbiter of what "minimal expectations" are?

I would argue that a player that is performing at a level consistent with other players in his salary range is, in fact, meeting "minimal expectations."

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

It's interesting how some will coddle the players, coaches, and organization as a whole. The Sacramento media tends to do this as well.

The whole situation is a lesson in poor mediocrity. At some point you might admit that the whole thing sucks and maybe not holding players accountable for something more than a C- grade is a big part of the problem

 

[Srzly]

Again, criticism of a player not producing up to a minimal expectation in any area, is not hate.

Sabonis deserves criticism as well, for not improving his shooting, since it really hurt the team way back in their one playoff series

Criticizing a player is one thing but I think there are people who wait for the first opportunity they can to criticize him and jump on it, while being very quiet about good performances or other parts of his game he excels at. Seems reasonable to using the term “hating” in that case.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

It's interesting how some will coddle the players, coaches, and organization as a whole. The Sacramento media tends to do this as well.

Should we even be surprised that someone who thinks that a player is underperforming his contract doesn't seem to believe that there's a difference between, "based on other players in his salary range, no he's not" and "coddling" him?

 

[SacTownKid]

So you don't want 47% chance at 5, but you DO want 47% chance at 5 OR 6? 2nd worst slot doesn't increase our chances at anything except falling a slot...

Less chance of 5 though. It's almost a 50 percent chance of getting 5 if you're 1st and tankathon is starting to freak me out haha. I swear 7 out 10 is pick 5 lol. If the Kings get 5, might as well just get 6. Doesn't look like much difference at those picks right now. In the end we all know some team will jump from 8 back anyway. It really depends though, I think if the young guys finally take the wheel and wins come that's the most positive thing. Now, DeMar and Westbrook carrying them? Yeah, nah. No point in that so who cares as long as it's top 2.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Less chance of 5 though. It's almost a 50 percent chance of getting 5 if you're 1st and tankathon is starting to freak me out haha. I swear 7 out 10 is pick 5 lol. If the Kings get 5, might as well just get 6. Doesn't look like much difference at those picks right now. In the end we all know some team will jump from 8 back anyway. It really depends though, I think if the young guys finally take the wheel and wins come that's the most positive thing. Now, DeMar and Westbrook carrying them? Yeah, nah. No point in that so who cares as long as it's top 2.

Would be nice just one time in recent memory, for the highest odds to pan out for the top 5 picks. Of course there are ulterior motives for why that doesn't happen

 

[Capt. Factorial]

Would be nice just one time in recent memory, for the highest odds to pan out for the top 5 picks. Of course there are ulterior motives for why that doesn't happen

The probability that all four lotto slots are filled with the top four teams in some order is only 2.2%. If we expand that to four of the top five teams in any order that goes up to 8.6%. We've only had seven lotteries using these odds, so it's not surprising it hasn't happened.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Criticizing a player is one thing but I think there are people who wait for the first opportunity they can to criticize him and jump on it, while being very quiet about good performances or other parts of his game he excels at. Seems reasonable to using the term “hating” in that case.

I think what it boils down to a lot of times, is that people don't like criticism of their favorites or players that they have invested a lot of hope into. We see it quite a bit with Sabonis for example, where in discussion... someone that doesn't think that he's a franchise cornerstone is then a hater. I actually like both Sabonis and Murray as players and good character culture guys, but will always voice criticism of what I see that holds them back from reaching their full potential

 

[KingsRUs]

Again, criticism of a player not producing up to a minimal expectation in any area, is not hate.

Sabonis deserves criticism as well, for not improving his shooting, since it really hurt the team way back in their one playoff series

I think the current state of Keegan leaves some to desire by certain fans for a couple reasons.

1. Original expectations which may or may not be in line with reality, but the guy carried “borderline all star” expectations that would save the original beam team for awhile. Not sure you should expect that from every 4th pick but..

2. If your good at one side and subpar on the other side, in this like literal one step forward - one step back?

3. Contract. We can talk about the importance of defensive wings, and they are important to some level, but if Keegan isn’t going to play O at which point could you just get a KZ Okpala facsimile and tell him to defend from the g league and get 70% of that production?

I think it’s fair to ask Keegan to generally efficient, so the O is standing in place while we can enjoy his defense

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I think what it boils down to a lot of times, is that people don't like criticism of their favorites or players that they have invested a lot of hope into. We see it quite a bit with Sabonis for example, where in discussion... someone that doesn't think that he's a franchise cornerstone is then a hater. I actually like both Sabonis and Murray as players and good character culture guys, but will always voice criticism of what I see that holds them back from reaching their full potential

That's hyperbolic like a mother****er. I don't think that Murray is a franchise player. I also don't think that he's underperforming his contract... There's steps in-between. The reason why I am inclined to believe that you are a hater is that you don't appear to make allowances for the steps in-between.

 

[KingsRUs]

I think the current state of Keegan leaves some to desire by certain fans for a couple reasons.

1. Original expectations which may or may not be in line with reality, but the guy carried “borderline all star” expectations that would save the original beam team for awhile. Not sure you should expect that from every 4th pick but..

2. If your good at one side and subpar on the other side, in this like literal one step forward - one step back?

3. Contract. We can talk about the importance of defensive wings, and they are important to some level, but if Keegan isn’t going to play O at which point could you just get a KZ Okpala facsimile and tell him to defend from the g league and get 70% of that production?

I think it’s fair to ask Keegan to generally efficient, so the O is standing in place while we can enjoy his defense

And for the record, I think he will eventually get there, to being solid on O with his defense, like parts of last year, but a little consternation for me in the meantime

 

[KingsRUs]

I think the current state of Keegan leaves some to desire by certain fans for a couple reasons.

1. Original expectations which may or may not be in line with reality, but the guy carried “borderline all star” expectations that would save the original beam team for awhile. Not sure you should expect that from every 4th pick but..

2. If your good at one side and subpar on the other side, in this like literal one step forward - one step back?

3. Contract. We can talk about the importance of defensive wings, and they are important to some level, but if Keegan isn’t going to play O at which point could you just get a KZ Okpala facsimile and tell him to defend from the g league and get 70% of that production?

I think it’s fair to ask Keegan to generally efficient, so the O is standing in place while we can enjoy his defense

And we can think it’s a tough ask for him to bust his balls on D, and produce on O, but some of the defensive wings like Trey Murphy/Dyson Daniels who are getting paid like this are managing it

 

[ESP47]

I think the Keegan criticisms are warranted. He's pretty much just an average player that has regressed overall each year and is about to get paid like a well above average player. He just flat out needs to be better on offense. His TS% is down with our G League level players. Even Russ has a better TS% than he has. It's definitely concerning for a guy who was an offensive stud in college.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

And we can think it’s a tough ask for him to bust his balls on D, and produce on O, but some of the defensive wings like Trey Murphy/Dyson Daniels who are getting paid like this are managing it

and keeping in mind a complete player, a starter for a good playoff team, is able to have consistent impact on both sides of the ball. Murray was projected to be a two way player and was known to be more of an offensive player when drafted. So to improve a lot on defense and rebounding is great, but at the cost of losing offensive impact is tough. This team is always going to struggle with him as one of the lead players, if he does not find a way to be a more consistent scorer

 

[gunks]

Keegan on a team with good players and a competent coach is going to be all defense, and probably look decent on offense as well.

Here he's having to cover for EVERYBODY on defense, and the offense is just Deebo and Russ taking turns dribbling the air out of the ball while everyone else watches and daydreams (including Christie).

He may never be the 20ppg "Bigger Klay" we thought he'd be after his rookie season, but he can absolutely start for a team with its **** together that has championship aspirations.

 

[Srzly]

and keeping in mind a complete player, a starter for a good playoff team, is able to have consistent impact on both sides of the ball. Murray was projected to be a two way player and was known to be more of an offensive player when drafted. So to improve a lot on defense and rebounding is great, but at the cost of losing offensive impact is tough. This team is always going to struggle with him as one of the lead players, if he does not find a way to be a more consistent scorer

Playoff level teams have actual offenses being run. The only guys that score consistently are iso players, which Keegan is not.

When he was on a playoff level team he looked pretty good offensively, no?

 

[iowamcnabb]

Criticizing a player is one thing but I think there are people who wait for the first opportunity they can to criticize him and jump on it, while being very quiet about good performances or other parts of his game he excels at. Seems reasonable to using the term “hating” in that case.

It’s glass half full versus half empty fandom. Just like in real life, some prefer to lead with negativity while others tend to be more positive (sometimes to a fault). For a forum like this one it’s good to have a mix of both mentalities as it keeps it more honest and interesting. The negative ONLY types can kick rocks though. Luckily we have no regulars that fit that description ( although a few get close haha)

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Playoff level teams have actual offenses being run. The only guys that score consistently are iso players, which Keegan is not.

When he was on a playoff level team he looked pretty good offensively, no?

He had a good shooting year in his first season, when he was a 5th option and just able to hang out and wait for a pass to get him open. If he is not able to expand his offensive game with the ball, then he needs to at least get back to a high % 3&D wing shooter

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

And we can think it’s a tough ask for him to bust his balls on D, and produce on O, but some of the defensive wings like Trey Murphy/Dyson Daniels who are getting paid like this are managing it

Like I said yesterday, there's, like, five players in Murray's salary range who are more productive than he is; Murphy happens to be one of the five. Saying that he's not doing as well as a borderline All-Star is not a particularly compelling argument that Murray is underperforming... I'm not sure I'm prepared to buy your conclusion that Dyson Daniels is more productive on offense than Murray is, though?

I think the Keegan criticisms are warranted. He's pretty much just an average player that has regressed overall each year...

But he hasn't regressed "overall," which is part of the point. Murray has regressed as a shooter, and no place else. He has either improved or, at worse, stagnated in every other aspect of his game.

and is about to get paid like a well above average player...

No, he isn't, which is the other part of the point. Technically, he hasn't even started getting paid under his new contract yet. When he starts getting paid under his new contract, he'll be making $24M a year. This isn't the nineties: in 2026, 24M isn't MVP-caliber wing money. It isn't All-NBA-caliber wing money. It isn't perennial All-Star-caliber wing money. It isn't even "well above average" wing money. In the "modern" NBA, that's the going rate for a regular-degular starting-caliber multi-positional NBA wing, which Keegan Murray is.

I think that most reasonable people will agree that Murray has a lot of room to improve, particularly on the offensive end, and literally nobody on this message board has said that Kings Fans should be satisfied with where Murray is at right now. But, if he doesn't get any better, he's getting paid what the market says a player of his caliber should be getting paid, and the fact that he's not overperforming his contract, like Murphy is, doesn't make that untrue.

 

[ESP47]

Like I said yesterday, there's, like, five players in Murray's salary range who are more productive than he is; Murphy happens to be one of the five. Saying that he's not doing as well as a borderline All-Star is not a particularly compelling argument that Murray is underperforming... I'm not sure I'm prepared to buy your conclusion that Dyson Daniels is more productive on offense than Murray is, though?


But he hasn't regressed "overall," which is part of the point. Murray has regressed as a shooter, and no place else. He has either improved or, at worse, stagnated in every other aspect of his game.


No, he isn't, which is the other part of the point. Technically, he hasn't even started getting paid under his new contract yet. When he starts getting paid under his new contract, he'll be making $24M a year. This isn't the nineties: in 2026, 24M isn't MVP-caliber wing money. It isn't All-NBA-caliber wing money. It isn't perennial All-Star-caliber wing money. It isn't even "well above average" wing money. In the "modern" NBA, that's the going rate for a regular-degular starting-caliber multi-positional NBA wing, which Keegan Murray is.

I think that most reasonable people will agree that Murray has a lot of room to improve, particularly on the offensive end, and literally nobody on this message board has said that Kings Fans should be satisfied with where Murray is at right now. But, if he doesn't get any better, he's getting paid what the market says a player of his caliber should be getting paid, and the fact that he's not overperforming his contract, like Murphy is, doesn't make that untrue.

He absolutely has regressed overall and the metrics show it.

I said "he's about to get paid", which means he isn't getting paid big dollars yet.

It just depends on how you define well above average. I don't think you need to be an all star or all NBA to be well above average. Those players are normally elite. Payton Pritchard has been well above average the last couple years and he's neither. Keegan is about to start making nearly Derrick White level money without even sniffing the same type of impact.

Keegan is currently sitting at a -.3 VORP and .009 WS/48. That is really bad. Go ahead and justify spending $25+ mil per year on that if you'd like but I can guarantee you that the franchise is sweating it right now. They're probably holding on to the same hope we all are in that he's just been banged up this year and is playing on a crappy team full of ball hog veterans but he's been slowly declining overall for a while now. Yes his defense has gotten really good but his offense has dropped off worse than his defense has improved.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

If Keegan shot 25% from three his rookie season and 38% the last three years would people in here call him a non- shooter based on his one bad season