[2016] The Finals

[KingMilz]

It wasn't hype: the west was down this year, relatively speaking, and the east has improved. But incrementally so; I think that you may have thought that the change was more stark than it actually was.

The East improved a ton regular season wise but teams like Toronto/Atlanta/Miami/Hornets/Celtics are not built for the playoffs at all, the Pistons and Pacers have potential but are not there yet. Where as in the West GSW/Spurs/OKC/Clippers are all 100% playoff built tough and even a team like Portland the way they played showed they are a very capable playoff team in particular if they add a shot blocker in the middle next year.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

What does that even mean? Atlanta got to the second round for the fourth time in five years. Toronto made it to the conference finals. I don't think that being "built for the playoffs" is a thing, at least, not in the way that I think that you mean it. You know who's not "built for the playoffs"? Orlando's not built for the playoffs. New York's not built for the playoffs. We're not built for the playoffs.

I mean, really, what did being "built for the playoffs" get for Oklahoma City, in the end, that not being "built for the playoffs" didn't get Toronto?

 

[whozit]

What does that even mean? Atlanta got to the second round for the fourth time in five years. Toronto made it to the conference finals. I don't think that being "built for the playoffs" is a thing, at least, not in the way that I think that you mean it. You know who's not "built for the playoffs"? Orlando's not built for the playoffs. New York's not built for the playoffs. We're not built for the playoffs.

I mean, really, what did being "built for the playoffs" get for Oklahoma City, in the end, that not being "built for the playoffs" didn't get Toronto?

Along your lines, I wonder what the win percentages are for Western Playoff teams when they played Eastern Playoff teams during the regular season. I suspect that head to head there is a lot more parity between the conferences in terms of playoff teams with Golden State being the outlier.

 

[Sac.1989]

mosgov was the cavs 2nd leading scorer in last years finals.

Its clear as day you need to go big and not compete with pace and smaller lineups, jacking up outside shots all day.

Revert to the half court. Steer the pace. Its homecourt cleveland so adjust and get a much needed win to keep this series alive.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Right? I mean, they probably can't beat Golden State going big, anyway, but they definitely can't beat Golden State going small, so they might as well go big, since they have the personnel for it, and take their chances.

 

[KingsFanGER]

mosgov was the cavs 2nd leading scorer in last years finals.

Its clear as day you need to go big and not compete with pace and smaller lineups, jacking up outside shots all day.

Revert to the half court. Steer the pace. Its homecourt cleveland so adjust and get a much needed win to keep this series alive.

Right? I mean, they probably can't beat Golden State going big, anyway, but they definitely can't beat Golden State going small, so they might as well go big, since they have the personnel for it, and take their chances.

Just saying, but Mozgov was so impressive, that Kerr decided to go all small in game 4 to 6 in 2015 basically ignoring the center position.
The key for the Thunder was, that their bigs were able to cover the perimeter and contain Steph and Klay in the pick&roll, while they also had the size advantage at every other position and were more athletic so they could win the long rebound game.
But most bigs aren't able to come up with those impressive chase down blocks like Ibaka versus the splash bros. Going big versus a Warriors team on top of their game will most likely fail. The lineup of Curry, Thompson, Iggy, Barnes and Green is called death lineup because they basically ran every team going big against them off the floor during 2 seasons.
They only run into serious trouble when their mobility is matched, because they are so used to outmanouver their opponent, that they literally have very few backup plans, when this fails.
I think the Cavs have better chances to do that by going smaller than bigger. Tristan Thompson literally gives the Cavs nothing besides some rebounding.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

You're wrong, though. The Cavaliers have a zero percent chance of beating the Warriors by going small. They have an insignificant, but still greater than zero, chance of beating them by going big. Cleveland can't threaten them by trying to "match their mobility," because their most "mobile" players, with the exception of LeBron James and Iman Shumpert, are also their worst defenders.

Cleveland's only chance is to go big, hope that Golden State has an off night, and get all the rebounds. They can't win any other way. You can't beat the Warriors unless you have athletic players with length, who can play both ends, and aren't stupid, and can play disciplined basketball. Basically, some kind of amalgamation of the Spurs, Hawks and Thunder.

 

[KingsFanGER]

You're wrong, though. The Cavaliers have a zero percent chance of beating the Warriors by going small. They have an insignificant, but still greater than zero, chance of beating them by going big. Cleveland can't threaten them by trying to "match their mobility," because their most "mobile" players, with the exception of LeBron James and Iman Shumpert, are also their worst defenders.

Cleveland's only chance is to go big, hope that Golden State has an off night, and get all the rebounds. They can't win any other way. You can't beat the Warriors unless you have athletic players with length, who can play both ends, and aren't stupid, and can play disciplined basketball. Basically, some kind of amalgamation of the Spurs, Hawks and Thunder.

Maybe, but a lineup of Irving, Smith, Shumpert/Jefferson, Lebron and Love would allow the Cavs to put Love closer to the basket while still having 4 guys that need to be guarded outside, making it harder for the Warriors to just clog the paint or to play off of one guy to double team constantly. And Love is a pretty good rebounder by himself. So not having Thompson at center doesn't hurt that much.
Play Mozgov and you limit Love to this inefficient spot up stretch guy and give the Warriors two targets for their pick&rolls, because both Mozgov and Love aren't mobile enough to contain those guards.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I believe Love is out tonight. That's what my gf texted.

But I'm on the side that you don't try to fight fire with fire with the Warriors. It's a trap and it hasn't worked well for anyone.

 

[KingsFanGER]

I believe Love is out tonight. That's what my gf texted.

But I'm on the side that you don't try to fight fire with fire with the Warriors. It's a trap and it hasn't worked well for anyone.

Well figuring out a way to beat a team that's pretty much dominating this league is no easy task. But the Spurs tried to play big versus the Warriors during the regular season and stood no chance even with a very decent big front court. The only game they managed to beat the Warriors and limit them to 79 points came, when Pop decided to play LMA at center and gave Diaw, who is mobile and versatile enough, major minutes.
So after two seasons we pretty much can say, that fighting fire with water doesn't work also.

If your Gf is right the debate is pretty pointless anyway. Lebron has to step up big time to have the slightest chance.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Why would the Cavs want to put Love closer to the basket? If they're trying to post up anybody, it might as well be LeBron.

 

[kingsboi]

Kyrie is back in Cleveland and all of a sudden he can play again

 

[LA King Fan II]

Curry looks hurt.

 

[VF21]

I don't know which warms my heart more - the dejected body language of the Warriors or the quiet gobsmacked expressions of their fans.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Would that I were capable of believing that Cleveland could actually do that three more times...

 

[VF21]

Would that I were capable of believing that Cleveland could actually do that three more times...

I am capable of believing I can believe that.

 

[KingsFanGER]

Jefferson as a starter, Shumpert with big minutes, 4 smalls 1 big all the time with the exception of a few minutes of Mozgov+Frye in the second quarter. Warriors couldn't outmanoeuvre the Cavs, couldn't find shots for Curry and Thompson, couldn't find the same open looks for Barnes and Green that were there the previous 2 games and couldn't exploit the switches on pick&rolls like they are used to. Predictable result at this point - the Warriors can't establish a rythm, can't use their running game and early offense like they are used to and are forced into the halfcourt. Barnes was very good, but even Barnes scored almost all of his points by using the quickness missmatch versus Frye.

Now can the Cavs repeat that?

Obviously Lue has to make a decision regarding Love and Tristan Thompson. He can't play both for huge amounts of time. Does he go with the quicker, more energetic Thompson or with the overall way more skilled player in Love. Love as a backup center and offensive leader of the second unit sounds tempting, but at the same time adding even more offensive firepower to the main lineup is still something to think about.
But the more serious problem is, that Lue has to play his wings and guards for major minutes to be able to play that small and quick. The Cavs just aren't as deep as the Warriors and at some point their stars and high profile role players may get too exhausted, to bring this kind of defensive energy.

 

[Gilles]

Warriors were just completely out of sync, effort and mental presence: multiple messed up plays, Cavs 4-to-1 fast break and Klay missing 2 FTs early on. Replacing Kevin Love with Jefferson really helped on D though, and Cavs' overall defensive effort was clearly up. It will be a close game today, but I'm still betting on Warriors pulling this off and finishing the series in 5.

 

[KingMilz]

So the Cavs went to Kyrie-Ball which lead to many #1 picks and sub 30 win seasons in the biggest game of there playoffs with the expected outcome.

 

[VF21]

I don't know which is better, the league decision or the whining by the Warriors fans...

SI NBA ‏@si_nba 4h4 hours ago
Draymond Green has been suspended for Game 5 of the NBA Finals. http://on.si.com/1sAG09H

 

[Telemachus]

I don't know which is better, the league decision or the whining by the Warriors fans...

SI NBA ‏@si_nba 4h4 hours ago
Draymond Green has been suspended for Game 5 of the NBA Finals. http://on.si.com/1sAG09H

All I can say is it's about time. Don't get me wrong, I want GS to win, but Cousins would have been suspended at least 2 or 3 times this post season if he had done the same things.

 

[VF21]

All I can say is it's about time. Don't get me wrong, I want GS to win, but Cousins would have been suspended at least 2 or 3 times this post season if he had done the same things.

Suspended? Had Cousins done ANY of what Green has gotten away with, he would have been removed from the court in handcuffs...

 

[KingsFanGER]

I think most of the suspensions and T's against Dmc are pure BS and a prove how soft the NBA has become.
Same goes for this suspension, no matter if it's Green this time and I hate the whole narrative of his passionate playstyle while our aggressive leader gets treated like a villain.
Let the guys play! The game needs a little bit of hostility to be interesting. Watching poster boys like Curry or Durant go down with a smile is boring.
Of course unsportsmanslike behaviour that could potentially hurt the opposing player should be punished.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

He's a recidivist nut-puncher; he's lucky that all he got was suspended.

I enjoy imagining what Team Dime might have done to Draymond Green if he had been around when Bibby was still in the league.

 

[Sac.Kings]

He's a recidivist nut-puncher; he's lucky that all he got was suspended.

I enjoy imagining what Team Dime might have done to Draymond Green if he had been around when Bibby was still in the league.

Green is a punk that takes advantage of his position of being an importance piece on the league's favorite team and does things that don't belong on the basketball court, to say the least. If this were the playoffs 10-15 years ago, had he done then what he is doing now, he would have received many a uppercut to his face. Let's pretend he hit Ben or Rasheed Wallace in the nuts like that even once, let alone 2-3 games in a row... I am not sure what would have happened, but it wouldn't be pretty. Someone would have been on the ground counting stars.

That's what I miss about the NBA today. Where are the guts? Where is the toughness? When you have a guy drill 3 threes in a row, what happened to knocking him on his *** next trip down to throw him off of his rhythm? When you have a guy repeatedly punching your teammates in the nuts, why not get him back? He isn't getting dinged for it, so go swinging like you're Barry Bonds on steroids. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth I say!

Green should have been suspended the first time he hit someone in the nuts. And the second time. Instead, he's been throwing his limbs left and right like a rag doll and could have seriously injured someone, all because the league is afraid to touch the darling (and money-making) Warriors. The NBA has repeatedly sent messages that they do, in fact, favor other teams more than others. It has gotten pathetic to watch.

Another random thing that really irritates me is that Green pushes opposing bigs in the back ALL the time in other to get boards. He also hacks players A TON. I don't know how he gets away with it.

 

[kingsboi]

Green is a punk that takes advantage of his position of being an importance piece on the league's favorite team and does things that don't belong on the basketball court, to say the least. If this were the playoffs 10-15 years ago, had he done then what he is doing now, he would have received many a uppercut to his face. Let's pretend he hit Ben or Rasheed Wallace in the nuts like that even once, let alone 2-3 games in a row... I am not sure what would have happened, but it wouldn't be pretty. Someone would have been on the ground counting stars.

That's what I miss about the NBA today. Where are the guts? Where is the toughness? When you have a guy drill 3 threes in a row, what happened to knocking him on his *** next trip down to throw him off of his rhythm? When you have a guy repeatedly punching your teammates in the nuts, why not get him back? He isn't getting dinged for it, so go swinging like you're Barry Bonds on steroids. Eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth I say!

Green should have been suspended the first time he hit someone in the nuts. And the second time. Instead, he's been throwing his limbs left and right like a rag doll and could have seriously injured someone, all because the league is afraid to touch the darling (and money-making) Warriors. The NBA has repeatedly sent messages that they do, in fact, favor other teams more than others. It has gotten pathetic to watch.

Another random thing that really irritates me is that Green pushes opposing bigs in the back ALL the time in other to get boards. He also hacks players A TON. I don't know how he gets away with it.

It disappeared when refs got to dictate how the game was played. You knock someone on their behind now and they will review that for a flagrant foul, which in return will your hurt your team and having that player become ejected possibly. When more teams start becoming a in your face type of team, then and only then IMO will the league become less soft, until then...all I see is sheep trying to emulate something they cannot

 

[Prog]

Instead, he's been throwing his limbs left and right like a rag doll and could have seriously injured someone, all because the league is afraid to touch the darling (and money-making) Warriors.

This is the perfect nickname for Green. I like it!

 

[New Era]

Personally, I think the Green's suspension is ridiculous and I'm starting to lose a little faith in Adam Silver and his gang. LeBron instigated all of that and I think the league suspended him because the Cavs are down 3-1 and this helps increase the chance that the Cavs extend the series. Green should have been suspended when he kicked Adams in the groin but, of course, they didn't suspend him back then because the Warriors were down in the series. If they want to hold the players accountable and get this stuff out of the game then they need to be consistent on it.

The NBA hasn't done itself any favors in these NBA Finals. I think Adam Silver is going to take a lot of heat for this and rightfully so.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

^It's hard not to be cynical about it but it's long overdue.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

I don't think it's hard to not be cynical at all; you punch somebody in the balls, you should be suspended. The fact that he wasn't suspended before on a dumb technicality doesn't make this suspension "ridiculous."