2008 off-season moves

#1
http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080208/OPINION03/802080345

Just stirring up conversation. I just would like to see some kind of movement from the Monarchs just to break up what I consider a "deafening quietness" in the front offices of Arco to better this franchise. My perception is over the past three seasons we have lost quality players in Bueschler, Maiga-Ba, Walker (temporarily), Griffith (maybe, if not eventually) and now Haynie, but not bringing in quality players.

And if not Sacramento, where do you think Swin Cash best fits. My guess is that she ends up in Seattle for that #4 pick they just acquired and a maybe a couple of throw in players to make the salaries fit. She fits perfectly with the Storm. They need a third wheel to run with Jackson and Bird now that Lennox is gone.
 
#2
Just stirring up conversation. I just would like to see some kind of movement from the Monarchs just to break up what I consider a "deafening quietness" in the front offices of Arco to better this franchise. My perception is over the past three seasons we have lost quality players in Bueschler, Maiga-Ba, Walker (temporarily), Griffith (maybe, if not eventually) and now Haynie, but not bringing in quality players.
Glad I am not the only person who feels this way.
 
#3
I'm not quite sure what the deafening silence is, Whiz brought three players in last season which got mitigated by losing his starting power forward to a season ending injury - yet, we still were a playoff team. First and foremost, I would want him to get the players he doesn't have under contract signed and he can't do that until next week. I was told that he also plans to take full advantage of the salary cap flexibility he now has under the new CBA to his full advantage. A luxury he did not have last year which I suggest is a big part of the reason that Maiga-Ba walked, she and to some extent Buescher were cap casualties because he could not under the old cap afford to sign his young core AND pay veterans to play behind them long term.

Now...on to the question at hand. Cash does nothing for this roster. We likely are drafting a young post and have a bench opening for a guard. Cash is a 3 you *maybe* can get away with playing the 4. You are going to lock Powell up long term, and they play the same position and Cash is more expensive (no pun intended). Is she going to come off the bench? Who is more valuable to you in the starting lineup Cash or Brunson or Cash or Walker? To me Atkinson is a better fit for this roster the way it is constructed than Cash would be because they essentially are the same size and do the same things equally well if you consider their shooting percentages and propensity to turn the ball over. Atkinson (more so than Swin) is quick and athletic enough to play down at and/or guard the 2. Unless you could get Swin to agree to play less than 25 minutes and you still get the same production out of her, then you'd just be overpaying her for less production.

Seattle HAS to make the Cash deal - they lost a HUGE chunk of their scoring from last year with the loss of both Lennox and Marques on Expansion Wednesday. I don't think Cash makes up for that, and I also guess Agler doesn't think who would be available at the 4 spot does either. We need a back up point guard or a perimeter scoring combo guard and more post depth. I think Whiz has his eye on getting that and I'd hope it's not with Cash. LaToya Thomas would have floated my boat and may have floated Whiz' since he had said he tried to get her signed last year before LA nabbed her. But getting her might have been difficult given the fact that the players of value to Atlanta on our roster they were free to pick.
 
#4
I know Cash does not naturally fit. She is a "three", she will not play off of the bench. I understand all of that. I guess when I look around the landscape of the league, and I see what is going on in LA with Parker and the like, Phoenix is young and the defending champs, Detroit is making moves, Seattle is making moves, New York is young and coming, Chicago will get the LSU center is getting younger and coming, San Antonio beat us 4 times. And again I see Sacramento losing quality players and replacing them with not as quality:

Bueschler is now Adrian Williams
Maiga Ba is now Latangela Atkinson
Yo Griffith is a HUGE QUESTION MARK, whether she plays or not
Haynie is now........???????

Maybe it is early, maybe it is not. But doesn't it seem like our team is aging? Please do not "Message Board-whip" me Monarchs fans, but I am just inquiring.
 
#5
If that's your question, they absolutely it's early. He hasn't even gotten to the point he can start signing his own players yet.

Parker is not in LA yet, we beat San Antonio three times here, we have gotten younger and more athletic and are in the process of securing our young core, we have a flexible cap Whiz has said he plans to use to his full advantage, in the interview posted in this forum he had ALREADY said he's looking to get his team better with trades/free agent market and the draft, he is more acutely aware than any one of us what Yo's status is.

Not as quality? C'mon now, you expected to replace a 5/6 year player with a 2nd year player and have her play 8mpg and get the same production out of her as you did Maiga. I still contend however, if you look at what Atkinson did here and what her skill set is in year two of her career, she is more advanced and productive than Maiga was at the same point in her career. There's no way I can compare the two otherwise and Whiz wouldn't argue that he replaced an apple with an apple. Buescher got to rock star status because Brunson wouln't get there in 06 (Buescher faded in the 2nd half of 06, but that's immaterial I guess) - you got allstar production out of Brunson (piled on top of mulitple injuries she played through). You got Newton back and she brought you more offense than you had when you first had her here.

If we open camp and Whiz has made NO moves (not just "no move we would have rather he had made") let's talk about him sitting on his hands doing nothing. Right now it's too early to judge his moves when he actually has made none (along with 11 other teams). If we want to talk about needs and what we'd like to have, Cash isn't on that list for me.
 
#6
Ohhhhh

Let us not forget the Kim Smith Experience, Or the Brittany Wilkins Project. Or the Meg Bulger Debacle. Which netted us nothing.

So now we have 1st round Draft pick, Nothing in the 2nd and what 3rd Rounders. Can you say camp fodder?

I am so with PR on this one. Everyone Else seems to be getting Better. And actively working to get better. We seem to be reverting back to YesterYear hoping for the Glory of years gone by. Without the personnel to do what we think we are suppose to do.

Okay so Whiz was cap locked. Had to Secure his core. Fine... That was done. He can now Lock up Nicole, Bekkah, Kara, for awhile. I can live with the fact that we had to lose Erin and Maiga in the process. That is just business.

Lets see what (3) 3rd picks can net us. Lets see what kind of manuvering can be done with that. Cause we are out of complimentary to trade with. But then again... It is still early.

We have a Flex cap. Great. We'll need it cause we have a lot of folks that are gonna want their money. And I doubt they are gonna take pay cuts. So You think we can sign a quality FA? Maybe Trudi Lacy will convice one of her GM friends to give us what we need.

I think we could have got some complimentary pieces that would have allowed us to just make a 1st round draft pick and be competitive. But that really didn't happen. I have my hopes for Tangie to keep improrving. I have my hopes that DeMya is in 05/06 form. I have my Hopes that Bekkah can stay healthy. I am not so optimistic that Yo is gonna come along and give is 13pts and 6rbs a night. Her minutes were suppose to be reduced last year. I think people are putting far more on her than she can deliver.

Oh and BTW who is gonna be our back up point guard? I mean Seattle has bemoaned the fact that they didn't have a back up for Sue Bird. Haynie may not have met with the satifaction of many in the Monarchs nation, but as far as back ups go, we could have done a hell of a lot worse. I guess this year we will find out.

I am hoping Whiz has something in the Hopper for that. Cause we certainly let Haynie walk for nothing. One of our best Trade pieces.

But I guess I will give Whiz the benefit of the doubt. I guess I have to. Lets see what he has in mind. I would really like to see some moves to Upgrade this team.

But Forgive me if I am not surprised IF we don't.

And I am not sure if Cash is the answer either.
 
#8
I have my hopes for Tangie to keep improrving. I have my hopes that DeMya is in 05/06 form. I have my Hopes that Bekkah can stay healthy. I am not so optimistic that Yo is gonna come along and give is 13pts and 6rbs a night. Her minutes were suppose to be reduced last year. I think people are putting far more on her than she can deliver.
I think the only things Monarch fans can bank on for sure this season is the "Superstardation" of one Rebekkah Brunson, the continual growth of Nicole Powell, and the stedy leadership and play of Kara Lawson. That is it!! Everything else is a hopin and a wishin:

Hope Yo can give the team some production
Hope DeMya can get back to pre-injury form
Wish Newton can find some offense
Hope Adrian Williams can handle the bulk of the starter minutes at the 5
Hope Ticha can handle the bulk of the minutes at the 1 at 32-33 years old
Hope the #10 pick can come in and contribute immediately, because the team can not afford to wait for growth
And lastly hope the team can get back to "MONARCHS DEFENSE"

That is a lot of hopes, and I think we need most of that to contend in the West.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#9
Why would Williams get the bulk of starter's minutes at center, even if Griffith can't go? Is Walker not expected to be ready when the season starts? Why wouldn't we start Brunson and Walker over Brunson and Williams, if Griffith can't go?

And another reason why I wished Whisneant had kept one or both of Buescher and Maïga-Ba; there may have been some salary concerns, but I'd bet we could have gotten a fine point guard prospect in trade for either one of them.
 
#10
Why would Williams get the bulk of starter's minutes at center, even if Griffith can't go? Is Walker not expected to be ready when the season starts? Why wouldn't we start Brunson and Walker over Brunson and Williams, if Griffith can't go?
Your right, I forgot about Walker. She has been out 54 out of 102 games the past three years. If for whatever reason Walker can't go, is Williams capable of holding down a bulk of the 4 or 5 minutes.
 
#11
He let Haynie "walk for nothing" because he HAD to, not because he wanted to, unless you wanted Robinson or somebody else to go instead, in which case, well, shoot, we'd STILL be letting a valuable piece go for nothing. And why are they valuable, because we play so damn deep into our bench? And why do we play so damn deep onto our bench, because our bench gets restocked with pieces.

And my goodness, are we still missing Meg Bulger? Seriously? A late 3rd round pick who was only going to be here because she wasn't going to take a roster spot last season? That's still a debacle that could have netted us something to talk about? We need to get over that. Whoever amongst all the players we hoped wanted should have kept never should have drafted, STILL would have been gone in the expansion draft you only had six slots to protect somebody we didn’t want to have to give up either.

And goodness sakes no, Williams is not here to replace anybody. Yolanda Griffith's replacement was drafted in 2004. I ran into DeMya at the place where I went Super Bowl Sunday and she was 3 days away from heading to Russia for her 2 month season “to get her game wind back.” Her knee's fine and she'll be back for camp in April or else she wouldn't have been cleared to play in Europe.

As fans I think we need to make up our minds about what we want and expect.
We’re talking about LA, Chicago, San Antonio, Phoenix – all teams that missed the damn playoffs at some point in the last five years, or just now came into existence. I kinda have been spoiled by the consecutive playoff run myself, but if we need to go back into lottery mode and pining away for a Parker or Fowles or a Paris, I guess that makes sense and can be equally as exciting as trying to be competitive for a playoff spot. If Whiz had only just sat on his butt and did more of nothing last season we could have missed the playoffs too and gotten into the conversation for Parker or another pick.

Yeah, well whatever. I saw this man completely overhaul this roster going into 2005 and there was even more of an uproar OMG he traded Tangela, OMG Ruthie’s been cut, OMG Edna’s gone, OMG we got nothing for the Anderson “debacle” OMG Buescher is a bunch of crap thrown in on the trade for a lottery bust Powell. The man only brought home a trophy that year. I think the man knows how to be bold and shrewd when he needs to be. And I sorta got the feeling he’d rather be in the Finals every year than missing the playoffs or not making it our of the first round. More than he gets credit for being or caring about. Again, if he hasn’t done anything to improve this roster (I’ve given my definition of “anything”) then sure, crack away. But to criticize him for losing somebody in expansion or not making trades when he still has yet to sign half his roster? C’mon….

Let me toss this question back to the room…..of these events, which ONE had the biggest impact on how the way the Monarchs’ season went last year.

1. Yolanda Griffith’s injury(ies) at the start of the season
2. DeMya Walker’s injury at the start of the season
3. Erin Buescher’s departure
4. Hamchetou Maiga-Ba’s departure
5. Rebekkah Brunson’s superstardation
6. Nicole Powell’s upsurge
7. Coaching change from Whisenant to Boucek
8. Return of Chelsea Newton
9. Kara Lawson’s midseason malaise
10. Trading Jessica Dickson (essentially not participating in the 07 draft)
11. Not getting Meg Bulger
12. Other, explain___________________

And consider in your choice, which one you foresaw having that same big impact before the season even started.
 
#12
how i'd rate 'em ... 1 & 2 ...

1. DeMya Walker’s injury at the start of the season - losing an allstar, starter, and leading scorer, is ALWAYS huge for a team ... my title hopes became very, very slim the day DeMya went down ...


2. Coaching change from Whisenant to Boucek - i think this will continue to be an issue this year ... it will still take the team some time to find out what their groove really is, and then they'll need to learn how to stay in it ...
 
#13
Okay WOW!!!!

MBF…
You are making this out to be somewhat of a personal attack on John Whisnant. And I think it is far from that.
Many of us feel that more could have been done to either retain some of our complimentary pieces, or bring in pieces comparable to the ones we lost.
Well I can’t speak for everyone but I know I do. Now you may disagree with my opinion. But I offered it as an opinion.

So let me begin to respond to your post with what had the biggest impact on last years season.

1. DeMya Walker’s injury at the start of the season
Biggest issue with last season.
2. Coaching change from Whisenant to Boucek
Even tho we were suppose to be using the “same” defense, I think we were being naïve to believe that a new coach would have the exact same defense. The bigger issue with this was having players come very late to camp, with a new offensive system. There was a lot of newness without a lot of time to adapt.
3. Rebekkah Brunson’s superstardation and Nicole Powell’s upsurge.
Yeah finally the Class of 04 grew up and started to assume their roles.
4. The rash of Mid to late season injuries to just about everyone.

Nicole with the Diana Taurasi Knee highs, Bekkah playing broken, Ticha and her hamstring, Yo and her (Pick your Injury).

5. Kara Lawson’s midseason malaise—Yeah she went into a funk.
6. Return of Chelsea Newton- not a whole lot of Impact in all truthfulness. But I am glad she is home.



However… The other things you mentioned had some indirect effects
1. Erin Buescher’s departure and Hamchetou Maiga-Ba’s departure
Complimentary pieces lost. We were probably gonna lose one of the two. But we lost both without getting much in return. Perhaps this was unavoidable. But I have on very good authority that Whiz never made an offer to Erin.

2. Trading Jessica Dickson (essentially not participating in the 07 draft).
An opportunity to get a complimentary piece that IMO was missed. I wanted Kristen Newlin out of Stanford. Why??? She was a prototypical White Line Post player. She had range and she was a solid defender. There had to be others out there tho. And they would have been upgrades to Brittany Wilkins. Instead we draft someone that we never really wanted, and couldn’t use. So yeah I have a beef with not participating in the 07 draft.

And there were players drafted after Dickson that managed to make final rosters. Kathrin Ress, and Sydney Spencer to name a few. Ya'll remember Sydney Spencer don’t you?
3. Not getting Meg Bulger…
Not getting her really wasn’t the point. We drafted someone that was injured, she couldn’t have helped us. And then she turned out to not even be eligible.
Did it kill us? No…
Did we miss out on some great find? Probably not. She was probably Camp Fodder. But we’ll never know if we missed out on a sleeper will we? We may have found an upgrade to the Brittany Wilkins experiment. And if we lost her in the expansion draft so what, at least we made use of the draft pick. As oppose to getting an additional camp fodder pick for this year.
But that draft did lead me to believe that the only move Whiz was truly interested in was getting Chelsea back. And none of the other picks were important.
I can understand why he wanted Chelsea back, but that mindset kinda annoys me.

Maybe there was other moves that could have been made to get her back. Hindsight is 20/20. So I won’t bother to second guess that. Besides the fact that the Draft went so loopy that a lot of folks fell further than expected.


So Lets talk about the Expansion Draft and Haynie.
Since we don’t know who got protected, that is a hard thing to argue. The only thing we know for sure is Haynie didn’t get protected. The difference between letting Sho, or Chelsea, or Tangie go is Point Guards are a premium. She may not have been as good as Ticha, but PG’s are a valuable assets. If he wanted to unload her, he could have gotten Draft pick(s) and or player(s). Instead she leaves and we get absolutely NOTHING in return for her loss. And this question still hasn’t been addressed.
Who is gonna be our Back Up point Guard? I thought the plan was to draft a post. And since we don’t have a 2nd round draft pick it looks like if we get a PG it will be in the 3rd round and late in it at that. Do we really think that poorly of Haynie that a 3rd rounder should be able to replace her?


Our complimentary pieces have been totally depleted.

I think that is the brunt of the concerns. There are a lot of things up in the air. Yes DeMya was cleared to play, her knee is “healthy”, but at what level is she playing at? Bekkah is having a strong off-season, but Fro is suffering from Vertigo. Whatever the hell that is. Adrian just got married. Not sure what her off-season routine is gonna be. And Yo??? BIG QUESTION MARK. The only sure thing in the post is Bekkah. Lots of uncertainty there.
As for missing the play-offs for a shot at a Fowles/Paris/Parker type of player. There was no need for that. But as some of us have already expressed, making some moves to either move up in the draft, or get complimentary pieces last year could have relieved the pressure of getting a Homerun Draft pick in the first round this year. Which BTW will be kinda hard drafting at the #10. But we got lucky with the #10 pick in 2004 so you never know.

And finally as for the 2005 overhaul. Well yeah as I remembered it, he pretty much had to do something, he was kinda on the hot seat.
And No... I was not particularly thrilled about Tangie getting shipped off to Charlotte. I understood it, but I didn’t like it. I thought Nicole was going to be a help on the wing but I thought we gave up too much. Lacy was giving her away and Erin and O-Scott in the process. Did anyone know much about Erin? She was pretty much an unknown. I doubt Whiz knew much about her, (contrary to what was reported) and was probably planning on cutting her in Camp. I think he got Lucky with Erin.
As for the rest… Ruthie, Edna, Chantelle, there just weren’t enough roster spots for them. We all know that. Could Ruthie and Edna have been “Treated better"? Maybe. But I think we all understood why those moves were made and we clearly upgraded when they were let go. I don’t remember anyone referring to the Anderson trade as a debacle other than Selecting Kim Smith with one of the picks we got. At least we got a draft pick out of her, and she got to go somewhere and try to compete for PT.

I think everyone here gave credit to Whiz when Credit was due. He has not totally been shafted. Even when some of his mid season actions have been somewhat of a "distraction". I don’t think we as fans have been totally unreasonable.

I think we as fans have a right to question some of the decisions that have been made without seeming like ingrates. I know You feel very strong about this topic MBF, and I respect the fact that you do. We don’t share the same opinion on this. We won’t always agree, we don’t have to. That is the fun of posting on a message board. but we should always respect each others opinions. Even if we don't agree.

With that I will reserve my judgement about the off-season moves until we see exactly what Whiz does. Til then I guess we can discuss potential FA pick-ups and Draft possibilities.
 
#14
I'm not making it a personal attack on anybody. The point of this thread as I understood it is that our front office (in which John Whisenant works) has been silent (at deafining levels) this offseason (which only began 2 weeks ago in terms of the ability to make transactions) compared to what an expansion team and teams that otherwise had players to throw away did. If someone else is responsible for not doing much to improve this team, I'll be happy to mention their name in my posts as well if that will make people feel more comfortable. The concern raised by folks about the lack of player movement is not being done in the abstract, it is being directed at the team's general manager. Again, unless I'm mistaken, that's Whisenant. If it would make folks feel better, I'll speak abstractly about our front office. Not sure my point of view will change, but I'll go with it.


In my last post, I asked folks to pick one factor. I haven't seen one factor identified re: why our season didn't result in our returning to the Finals.

But let me look at some comments I see in your post Luv13 since you're pointing at mine. The purpose for drafting Meg Bulger last year was to have her rights for 2008's camp. She was never intended to be here in 07 because she never would have been healthy enough to play. She was rehabbing from an ACL for most of the season so that was not news to MFO and that's why she was available. Sorta like Lacey picking up Jia Perkins who was pregnant in 04 in the 3rd round. There's a reason why somebody who projects higher is available in the 3rd. Bulger will likely be a mid 2nd to 3rd pick this year, she has another injury right now which I suspect will drop her that low, healthy she might have been late first to mid 2nd. Now under either scenario, by drafting a player of Bulger's stature and draft projection in 2007's third round - our front office essentially got a freebie late first round/mid second round pick in 2008. Given the fact that our front office has no second round pick, that wasn't a bad strategy. She either would have been somebody we could have used as a back up 2/3 and somebody who can fill it up from the perimeter. Or she would have been another player who could have been attractive to one of the TWO expansion teams the league had told the existing teams to prepare for in 2008. The ONLY problem with that strategy was the league had erroneously listed her in the draft list distributed to the teams. Our front office has been compensated with another pick this year in the 3rd round. If one of our 3rds isn't used on a point guard out of college or internationally, I'd be surprised.

Re: the expansion draft. Who would you rather have lost? For all we know our front office may have left both of our point guards exposed and Atlanta chose the young one. Before the draft, everybody who offered up an list of protected and exposed had it down to Haynie or Scho (with or without protecting Ticha). But if I understand the argument correctly (or as I project it on to a question I have coming up) we'd rather have lost Haynie (or as it seems preferrably Scho) and a young core member to move up in the draft? Really?

If you want a home run, put it out there. Let's stop speaking in the abstract. Who are you going to give Seattle to get their 4th away from them? Detroit is (purportedly) giving them a disgruntled Swin Cash - a starter, an allstar, an Olympian and former lottery pick. Our comparable option would be Brunson or Powell. You want to make that deal to move up? Let's take a further step back tho and consider what it would have taken to get the 4th away from Atlanta. Seattle sent Izi Castro-Marques. Again, another big scorer, I believe she was starting for them too. She's also an Olympian. Again, that seems to suggest that it would have taken somebody comparable from our roster to get that pick from Atlanta. Who at that level were you willing to give up, because Atlanta dealt AFTER already taking a player from Seattle's exposed list - Betty Lennox (who also wasn't returning to that team with Agler coming in). So Seattle lost two starters for the 4th overall pick in this draft, and will replace that with Swin Cash. They must have a lot more faith in the other complementary pieces on their bench than I seem to, but it ain't my team, I don't like Seattle so I could give a crap what they do. But as it relates to us, given that they already took Haynie, who else would you have been willing to give up to get the #4?

But put a deal on the table with comparable players to what Seattle and Detroit have to offer and were in a position to HAVE to deal and so we can get to discussing that instead of what our front office is or isn't doing two weeks after the CBA has dried.

I also don't think the variables that have been mentioned throughout this thread are lost on this front office or its GM. I'm pretty sure decisions are being made or will be made based on what they know about the status of players likely to be returning here. Since the front office has either been working out with DeMya, monitoring her rehabilitation and work to get ready to return that they have an idea of what shape she's in. Same with Yo. Same with everybody. I don't have access to a crystal ball to know how all these variables will play out, about the only thing I am pretty certain of is that Brunson is more than likely going to serve a suspension of some length to start the season. Anything else relating to her or anybody else is up to the fates and I'm pretty sure the front office is factoring everything.

Let's have a deeper conversation in this thread about specifics...

Here's a list of players believed to be free agents, only the front offices will know for sure who is available because some of these folks may have been cored.

Here's another question for the room....

Give me a list of players we could bring in or trade for, who you are willing to give up to get them or a higher pick and build a roster for us to talk about. The genesis of this thread was bringing Cash in. Since we have talked that out and decided she doesn't fit, let's discuss folks and picks that would and who we are willing to part with to get them and who are we trying to replace with the player at the pick we want to get and is that player better than who we currently have starting or being in the high minute end of our rotation which I would say is spots 1-7 of our roster.
 
Last edited:
#15
Give me a list of players we could bring in or trade for, who you are willing to give up to get them or a higher pick and build a roster for us to talk about. The genesis of this thread was bringing Cash in. Since we have talked that out and decided she doesn't fit, let's discuss folks and picks that would and who we are willing to part with to get them and who are we trying to replace with the player at the pick we want to get and is that player better than who we currently have starting or being in the high minute end of our rotation which I would say is spots 1-7 of our roster.

What I have just quoted is really what this whole discussion is about IMO. All of this energy we have been expending comes down to this.
WE DON'T have ANY parts to move at this point.
We need just about everything we have. We can't make a play for Wiggins, or any other HomeRun draft pick. I never felt like a homerun pick was necessary. And if you reread my Post you will see that.

And that was my problem with the moves that have been made over the past 2 years. That is why it was so important to find those complimentary pieces last year, considering the fact that we didn't have a 2nd round pick. That's why it was important to either a)retain Maiga or Erin, or b)find a piece that was comparable. So we would have parts. And if we had to lose them, we could have made a deal like the one that Seattle made.

Now if your contention is that he tried and it just didn't work out. Then fine I will buy that.

I think Tangie can be a good young piece. She is certainly athletic and has an upside.
Williams is not a White Line Post Player, and needs to be upgraded. I thought she would be able to contribute more. But she did give us something and that can't be overlooked.
I think Fro could be helpful. She has nice skill sets and she has the top of the key jumper that we love you set our post players up for.
Kim Smith---:rolleyes: can't help us need to move her.

Second... I really must have misunderstood your question about the list of reasons. Because the question you asked was "Let me toss this question back to the room…..of these events, which ONE had the biggest impact on how the way the Monarchs’ season went last year."
Not Why we weren't back in the Finals.
To me that is a simple answer.
We were not the same team we were in 06. We certainly were not an improved team. SASS was significantly improved, and IMHO a better team than we were. Yes we beat SASS, on experience, but we were overmatched. And it was only a matter of time before it caught up to us. We never had an answer for Phoenix. And I am not sure which one of the things mentioned might have changed that. We would have definitely been a better team with a Healthy DeMya. Not sure if we would have been better than SASS. And I am not sure we could have matched up with Phoenix. They were just a bad match up for us.
I may be wrong but that is My opinion.

And I didn't say that MBF was attacking anyone. I said my opinion (or anyone else’s) that felt more could be done was NOT I repeat NOT a Personal Attack on Whiz. And your post seem to imply that it was. That people weren't appreciating what Whiz has done. And that is not entirely true. And while we are on this subject...
To be quite honest, I was totally lost in your last post.
No one is trying to call you out. Although you seem to be trying to call me out. And why? Because I disagree with some of the Moves Whiz made? Because I think more could have been done?
It is My opinion. I am not calling for his head. And even if I was Why is this becoming so personal. If someone says anything that is not completely reverent of Whiz you go reaching for the nearest LightSaber. These are not rights truths and absolutes. They are opinions. Why can't we just agree to disagree, and respect each others opinion. We all really want the same thing, the best Monarchs Team we can assemble. So maybe we should focus on that and stop making a martyr out of a man who is quite capable of defending himself.

Back to the team...
For the most part... We see pieces leaving, they really aren't being replaced with Comparable pieces. I would be happy if we would simply upgraded the Comp pieces. If we could pull off a homerun draft, great. I would be happy with a Double. Hell I would be happy with a Base on Balls draft.

And finally, I think it is moot to have the discussion about who should have been protected. Cause we don't know who was. I will say that Haynie had significant trade value, and we could have got Comp pieces for her.

But I am not so bent out of shape about losing her. I am concerned about who will be the back up point guard. I mean I know Chelsea is valuable to Whiz, but would she have been picked up by ATL? Who knows? Whiz wasn't gonna chance that. But we had 2 other players who played that position. And in the long run Sho will probably be a better all around player. So my question... who is out there to replace Haynie, with the PG picking so slim?
I think that is a fair question.

I feel that we should shop the FA market. We should have the cap space now to do that. Cash is off the table. I don't think PR ever really though she was on the table. Just wanted to begin the discussion, and Cash was the best place to start.

As far as moving up, My hope at this point is to unload some pieces and see if we can get into the 2nd round. I am not convinced that we can use our remaining pieces to get a FA. But we could try. Maybe a Smith/Frolich combo or Williams/Smith for an up grade on the wing or Big. Haven't taken a hard look yet.

Maybe we should start a new thread discussing draft and FA options.

Cause at this point this is becoming redundant. What is done is done. I hope to see alot of activity, and some upgrades. Ala the moves in 05. Doesn't have to be Blockbuster trades, but moves would be nice.

I say again I will reserve my judgement and wait til moves are made before I become unsettled.
 
#16
For Informational Purposes...

I thought I would make the discussion a little bit easier for those actually looking. BTW this is an unofficial list and will be subject to update.

Code:
Name Pos. '07 Team

Chantelle Anderson C San Antonio
Alana Beard G Washington
Rebekkah Brunson F Sacramento
Shameka Christon F New York
Stacey Dales G Chicago
Vanessa Hayden C Minnesota
Cheryl Ford F Detroit
Ebony Hoffman F Indiana
Amber Jacobs G Minnesota
Jia Perkins G Chicago
Plenette Pierson F Detroit
Nicole Powell G/F Sacramento
Nicole Ohlde F/C Minnesota
Ashley Robinson C Seattle
Nakia Sanford F/C Washington
KB Sharp G Indiana
Christi Thomas F Los Angeles
Lindsay Whalen G Connecticut


Unrestricted Free Agents
Code:Name Pos. '07 Team

Svetlana Abrosimova F Minnesota
Sue Bird G Seattle
Janell Burse C Seattle
Swin Cash F Detroit
Tamika Catchings F Indiana
Helen Darling G San Antonio
Anna DeForge G Indiana
Katie Douglas G/F Connecticut
Margo Dydek C Connecticut
Marie Ferdinand-Harris G San Antonio
Yolanda Griffith C Sacramento
Vickie Johnson G San Antonio
Betty Lennox G Seattle
Chasity Melvin C Chicago
Delisha Milton F Washington
Deanna Nolan G Detroit
Wendy Palmer F Seattle
Ticha Penicheiro G Sacramento
Ruth Riley C San Antonio
Nykesha Sales G Connecticut
Katie Smith G Detroit
Tammy Sutton-Brown F/C Indiana
DeMya Walker F Sacramento
Tamika Whitmore F Indiana
 
#17
This thread has not become redundant if we take the discussion where it seemed to have started. As I posted previously, I responded to what I thought the discussion was. If I have misinterpreted who or what we in this thread are concerned about that's my bad. Again, if our front office is not who is being silent about making moves, my bad again. My reason for talking about our front office is precisely because there is an point of view being made that it didn't do enough last year to make this team competitive. I don't necessarily agree and thought that's what I said. If I think a line of argument being made is specious I'm going to say so and offer a counter argument. Other than my opinions I have no personal stake in what happens with John Whisenant or this team for that matter, despite what others may believe. I have no need to pull out a light saber and didn't think I did.

I didn't ask for why we weren't in the finals, I asked for "one" factor that had the most influence on how the season went. The substance of the argument here seemed to be that the Monarchs' competitiveness last year and/or this year can be summed up in one factor. If we lagged behind the new class of the West and whoever else...because we made no moves? That would be one factor. Of the answers to the question to the room, the fewest factors I saw was two.

I'm not sure I could say or will ever say, the moves "just didn't pan out" because I think a multitude of factors happened in 2007 to make this team less effective than it had been in the past and I think new people were being asked to play bigger roles (not the least of which a rookie head coach). I didn't walk into 2007 with the idea that a ticket to the Finals was our divine providence but I did think we should have been competitive for a playoff spot. That we were with barely one healthy post player, a coaching change, a system change, personnel change...etc. I look to Los Angeles who had Leslie removed from their lineup add a McWilliams-Franklin but still was reduced to a lottery team. We play much of the season with perhaps a team with a mix of posts that perhaps had by mid season 1.5 healthy lower legs between them and we made the playoffs.

Frohlich has no trade value, and I'm not even sure she's under contract here. I can't imagine we signed her mid-season to a multi-year contract. She was out of the league when we picked her up. She is not IMO a priority of the front office compared to the 5 players he does need to sign. She might be a camp invite.

Smith probably will be/needs to be moved. Her role had been to be the back up wing in the post Chelsea Newton era (her actual role I believe was to be in Chicago if Cowens would have done the deal that our front office tried to offer up to have them not take Newton in the first place). Once our front office acquired Atkinson the writing was on the wall for her. If our front office does not somehow draft a point guard who will get minutes (I can see a scenario where that could happen if we don't get a 2nd round pick) I think our front office might be comfortable with a Ticha/Kara combo splitting the Ticha/Kristin minutes with Newton, Atkinson and Robinson picking up extra minutes and a "break glass in case of emergency" point dressing in street clothes for 34 games.

I don't think the front office needs to get a second rounder, cool if they do, but not a priority. We have a first round pick and a roster spot to play with. If our front office signs a free agent, we have better than a 2nd round pick left. If our front office nets a deal for somebody judged better than what we a college player, we have somebody who is going to get minutes - reducing our need for a second rounder to dress in street clothes. And if our front office is back to using that criteria, it may not make any big
moves until it gets Powell and Brunson signed (or at the very least an agreement in principle of what it is going to take to get them signed) and/or closer to the draft.


We don't need to start another thread for FA/Draft discussions, that would likely make our 3rd or 4th thread discussing the same topic. This discussion started a few months ago in another thread. I'll toss in the post that started that thread : the interview with the head of the front office, so we can add what he sees the general game plan for this offseason and the future building plans beyond 2008 and match that to what the front office actually does.

Mods: Can we have a title change for this thread to something having to do with offseason moves? This thread and the previous thread this next quote is from can probably actually be merged as well.
 
Last edited:
#18
Whisenant Interview - Thread Replay

Rewind...

Q&A With Sacramento Monarchs GM John Whisenant
Nobody Beats the Whiz!
Posted Dec 11 2007 11:08PM







Winning isn't easy in the WNBA. But John Whisenant is making it look that way in Sacramento.
After a long and storied career coaching in the college ranks, "Whiz" became the Sacramento Monarchs' assistant general manager in 2003. Midway through the 2003 season, he was also named the team's head coach. With Whiz at the helm, the Monarchs celebrated four straight winning seasons and playoff berths, and they won the WNBA title in 2005.

Whisenant gave up his coaching duties prior to the 2007 season, but he remains the team's general manager and works closely with new coach Jenny Boucek.

Whisenant spoke recently with WNBA.com about the 2007 season in Sacramento, why his squad's success is such an anomaly in the WNBA and what the Monarchs are cooking up this offseason.


Q. How do you feel the 2007 season went for the Monarchs? Where do you feel you succeeded or didn't quite live up to expectations as an organization?

A. "I thought we had a really good year. We became one of only a handful of WNBA teams to make the playoffs for the fifth straight season. Jenny was the coach of the All-Star team, so at the All-Star break, you'd have to say we were playing pretty well. We had a really good first half, but losing DeMya Walker to her knee injury hurt us a lot. She was a key player for us. Especially with Yo(landa Griffith) aging a bit and playing slightly reduced minutes, losing DeMya was a big blow. But all in all, I think we had a good year. We reached the playoffs, we had a chance to get out of the first round and I was happy with the year as a whole.
"But on the other hand, we'd been to the Finals in back-to-back years, so there was some disappointment. But I think that change in the second half was largely due to DeMya not being around."


Q. Are there improvements that you feel the team needs to make, either by bringing in some different players or in an on-the-court, tactical way?

A. "We're always looking for ways to improve our personnel. But the one negative thing about making the playoffs for five consecutive years is that we haven't been in the Draft Lottery. And the team that did win it this year, Phoenix, had three lottery picks in its starting lineup. Having -- and then doing well with -- those early picks is the best way to build and improve in this league. But despite not having those lottery picks, we've continued to make the playoffs. That's not how the system is supposed to work! So we're constantly fighting that cycle.
"And again this year, we'll be picking 10th and we hope to find a useful player. Sometimes it's difficult to find what you really need when you're not picking near the top. And we have Yolanda, who has been a mainstay with the Monarchs, getting up there in age -- so we're always looking for more post depth. We also know that DeMya's knee injury is a hard thing to recover from. She's doing great and we hope for the best, but it's not something we can count on 100 percent. So we're looking for that kind of depth.
"We're also always looking for shooters. You don't find shooters like Kara Lawson or Nicole Powell every day of the week, but we'd like to improve at the offensive end. We feel like Rebekkah Brunson is going to be a serious force in the league and that she's going to continue to come into her own. So we just have to fill in the holes.
"And I'll spend most of the winter watching the college players, and as soon as the CBA is settled, I'm sure I'll do a lot of talking to the other GM's around the league on possible maneuvers."


Q. Do you see any issues on the court that you feel need to be addressed this offseason?

A. "Of course, there are always things you'd like to improve, moves you'd like to make, but you don't often see teams in this league just giving away good players without wanting good players in return. So it's not as simple as it might sound. The players that most people want in trades from the Monarchs are the players that we want to keep.
"That's why the draft is so important. Look at what Detroit did: they finished last one year, got a couple of great draft picks and those players made a great impact on the team and they went on to win a couple of titles. The trade to get Katie Smith also played a big part in that, but their team was built largely by the draft. Now you look at Phoenix, you look at San Antonio… those teams have succeeded because of the draft. And the Silver Stars didn't even use their pick this year, but they traded it for Becky Hammon. That's making good use of that pick.
"So if you win consistently in this league like we have in Sacramento, it's hard to build up collateral to make the trades that help you take that next step up. So we have to find some late bloomers, we have to find players we think will develop into good players. Rebekkah Brunson is a perfect example: we got her with the 10th pick in 2004 and I think she'll be one of the premier players in this league for the next couple of years. Knock on wood."


Q. Are there other players currently on your roster who you feel will step up and make a bigger contribution in 2008?

A. "Scholanda Robinson is a player we got from LSU who's a great athlete. We really like Chelsea Newton, who we got back from Chicago for a draft pick. "Of course we hope Nicole Powell and Becky Brunson continue to develop. They're players who have grown up with us, and they're available soon to go out as restricted free agents. And I don't intend to let them go anywhere. We really think they'll get even better and become the best 3-4 forward combo in the league.
"And Kara Lawson is like our coach on the floor. She can play the point, she's a great shooter and we expect her to continue to get better, too.
"And everyone thinks she's old, but Ticha Penicheiro is as hard as a rock. She's just 32 and even though she's getting to the point where age might be a factor, I haven't seen any change in her game. She may never be a great shooter, but her ability to handle the ball and run the offense should continue to help us for a few more years."


Q. Defense has been your team's calling card for the last couple of seasons. Is the fact that the Mercury -- a run-and-gun sort of team -- won the title going to change your team's style at all?

A. "They're an impressive team. But do you know whose playoff scoring record they broke? It was ours. And before Paul Westhead's teams led the nation in scoring in college, it was my teams at New Mexico.
"My point is that yes, my teams here won with defense, but we're still capable of scoring 100 points a game. Playing good defense creates havoc and easy scoring opportunities. That's the key. Sure, we need more offense, but I still think that defensively-sound teams are usually going to win.
"Our defense has been disruptive since I've been in Sacramento, but that definitely doesn't preclude us from playing good offense. It's not like we're sitting around, holding the ball and slowing down the game."


Q. Finally, what are your goals for 2008? Are you focused on getting back to the WNBA Finals?

A. "Yeah, always. But first, we want to do well enough to make the playoffs and come in on a positive note. In 2005 and 2006, we played our best basketball in the second half of the season and came into the postseason a hot team. This year, we hit a rough patch and went only 7-7 after the All-Star break. And that's not good going into the playoffs.
"We hope DeMya will be able to come back and play for us, we think Brunson is really going to take that next step in her game and we hope Yo comes back for another season. We've reduced her minutes over the last few years, and if we continue to do that, I can see her sticking around for a little while longer. Her toughness and attitude are so valuable to this team.
"We hope we can find a nice player in our draft spot… someone who can come in and contribute. And this is supposed to be a deep draft, at least at the top. How deep does it go? We'll see, but there are probably at least a half-dozen players who can make rosters and play right off the bat. We hope someone like that drops to us."
 
#19
An update on DeMya

DeMya Smiles in Face of Doubt
written by: Andrew Nicholson
Sacramento Monarchs.com
February 13, 2008

Just five games into the 2007 WNBA season, Monarchs starting power forward DeMya Walker sustained a torn patellar tendon in her right knee. The injury had many pundits saying she would never return to the court or ever be the player she once was. Walker heard the doubters and kept a list. Now seven months later and a month after being cleared to play basketball again, she is ready to prove those naysayers wrong and inspire young women, just as she did when she made it into the WNBA. (more)
 
#20
And if not Sacramento, where do you think Swin Cash best fits. My guess is that she ends up in Seattle for that #4 pick they just acquired and a maybe a couple of throw in players to make the salaries fit. She fits perfectly with the Storm. They need a third wheel to run with Jackson and Bird now that Lennox is gone.
I guess my speculation was right. DANG I should be a General Manager:D

http://www.freep.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080216/SPORTS04/802160365/1052/SPORTS03
 
#21
Happy Player Movement Opening Day!

February 19th is the first day for signing free agents and making trades: The first news of player movement has been announced....

Katie Douglas is traded from Connecticut to Indiana (her home state) for Tamika Whitmore and the infamous PTNL (more)

Minnesota Lynx sign the newly unnneeded in Indiana Anna DeForge (more)
 
#24
Right now teams can core up to two players, but that changes next year.

This new deal on coring, which will go into effect in 2009, cuts the number of core players a team is allowed to one per season. And the most a player can ever be "cored" is five times.
Source
 
#28
Mbeka to Houston does not phase me at all. Houston is not going any where and she is old.

Ferdinand to Los Angeles does concern me. With Parker officially declaring for the draft (http://sports.espn.go.com/ncw/news/story?id=3256583), and the addition of Marie, the Sparks will be strong, deep and a playoff contender. therefore one team that made the playoffs in '07 will not in '08. The Monarchs along with Seattle are on that bubble.
 
#30
You know I would accept somebody getting signed and Drafting well at this point.

The whole arguement defending the lack of moves over the years was that We needed the room to sign our players.

Hell we haven't even signed our own RFA's. I mean INDY made sure their FA wasn't going anywhere. WTF!!! Sign somebody. At least justify why we lost what we lost and get Nicole and Bekkah under contract. ASAP. These FA's are flying off the market.

Damn the Coyness...
DO SOMETHING!!!!