These latest moves have me frustrated. In my opinion we are picking up players who are good enough to get us off the bottom, but not good enough to be competitive. Can anyone outline for me how these latest moves might lead to a team that can be competitive in the playoffs? I want to keep an open mind but find it more difficult lately. As a small market team I follow Morey's philosophy in gambling on high risk, high reward players to build a competitive team. We seem to be the opposite so far with our trades.
Striving for mediocrity?
- Thread starter spudfan
- Start date
Had Landry's deal been something along the lines of 1 year/$8 million or so then I could have understood the direction. It would have implied (in my mind at least) that the front office wasn't having luck with the free agents it had targeted (and/or trades it had tried to push for) and were getting to the cap floor by signing a rugged, veteran PF who can add some scoring off the bench but most importantly preserved the caproom they'd cleared out until next season when they could strive for a big second offseason.
Signing Landry just looks like overpaying for a bench big that doesn't really fit alongside Cousins while the SF spot, frontcourt defense, wing defense, and ballhandling/passing are still big holes in this team.
New regime or not, this seems very much like the same rudderless type of offseason we've experienced with Petrie the last couple summers.
To me there were three logical paths forward for D'Allesandro, Ranadive & co.
1. You bank on Tyreke+Cousins. Move Tyreke back to PG, start McLemore at SG, sign a SF (Iguodala was my preference) and start Thompson/Patterson & Cousins while trading everyone else for 3 & D type guys.
2. You let Tyreke go because you don't believe in his potential and build around Cousins. Trade for a shotblocking PF (either a veteran or draft pick to get Noguiera or Dieng), and defenders/shooters
3. You blow it up and start over. Look at what Ainge is doing now. The Celtics will get awful, but then they'll get good again likely the same way they did last time, by stockpiling lottery picks and then dealing them for veterans (Garnett, Ray Allen)
This indecisive, in between nonsense is just a treadmill of mediocrity. And it's made more frustrating by the early talk about being committed to defense while then trying to sign Calderon, trading Evans for Vasquez and then inking Landry.
I'm not encouraged.
Signing Landry just looks like overpaying for a bench big that doesn't really fit alongside Cousins while the SF spot, frontcourt defense, wing defense, and ballhandling/passing are still big holes in this team.
New regime or not, this seems very much like the same rudderless type of offseason we've experienced with Petrie the last couple summers.
To me there were three logical paths forward for D'Allesandro, Ranadive & co.
1. You bank on Tyreke+Cousins. Move Tyreke back to PG, start McLemore at SG, sign a SF (Iguodala was my preference) and start Thompson/Patterson & Cousins while trading everyone else for 3 & D type guys.
2. You let Tyreke go because you don't believe in his potential and build around Cousins. Trade for a shotblocking PF (either a veteran or draft pick to get Noguiera or Dieng), and defenders/shooters
3. You blow it up and start over. Look at what Ainge is doing now. The Celtics will get awful, but then they'll get good again likely the same way they did last time, by stockpiling lottery picks and then dealing them for veterans (Garnett, Ray Allen)
This indecisive, in between nonsense is just a treadmill of mediocrity. And it's made more frustrating by the early talk about being committed to defense while then trying to sign Calderon, trading Evans for Vasquez and then inking Landry.
I'm not encouraged.
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Yes PDA is stupid and is trying to destroy the team. He has nowhere near the NBA scouting acumen as the elite kingsfans.com critics. He's just making lateral moves to antagonize kingsfans.com He hopes for mediocrity, neither lottery picks nor playoffs and is doing everything he can to be the 14th best team in the league forevermore. His master plan is to destroy fan morale, tank the Arena deal, and have Vivek sell the team to Chris Hansen next year. He has broken up the Yankees, let a 15 pt 4 rebound guy slip through his fingers for $44M... oh my God what are we gonna do???? #mediocre #rudderless #internetcrybabyidiot
Nothing Petrie did in 19 years as the GM of the Kings made me as mad as what's happened here in the last few days. Even the Webber for flexible pieces deal made a kind of sense because Webber was injured. I still don't like the deal, but I can see why he did it. This is just a completely backwards way to build a team. We can't afford to pay top line talent but somehow we can afford to pile more mid-level deals for roleplayers onto the heaps of midlevel deals we already have filling up our cap. In two more years Hayes is gone, Thornton is gone, Outlaw is gone. That's if we couldn't trade them sooner. Petrie didn't leave us with a screwed up cap situation, he left us with a few bad contracts which mercifully end in just 2 years. So what does Pete do? He commits another 4 year midlevel deal to a middling talent while claiming we can't afford an actual talent for another $4 million a year? $4 million? That's half of what John Salmons makes. Amnesty him and you already get the difference in what we just committed to Landry and what Tyreke would have cost freed off our cap. Can't afford Tyreke? I called BS on this already, but he just proved it.
Sarcasm aside, I'm sure he thinks he's making good moves. Just as I'm sure David Kahn thought he was doing a great job.
Not everyone is great at their job. Especially when it's their first time in the big chair. Exactly what has D'Allesandro accomplished as to engender your unwavering support while calling anyone who questions his moves "internet crybaby idiots"?
And how is the Landry signing different from the Chuck Hayes deal? Or Shareef Abdur-Rahim? Giving significant money/caproom to a mediocre bench big. At least with SAR there was the notion that he might regain some of his old form, making him a good pick up. Landry is a find backup big. But how exactly is he part of the new direction of this franchise?
Not everyone is great at their job. Especially when it's their first time in the big chair. Exactly what has D'Allesandro accomplished as to engender your unwavering support while calling anyone who questions his moves "internet crybaby idiots"?
And how is the Landry signing different from the Chuck Hayes deal? Or Shareef Abdur-Rahim? Giving significant money/caproom to a mediocre bench big. At least with SAR there was the notion that he might regain some of his old form, making him a good pick up. Landry is a find backup big. But how exactly is he part of the new direction of this franchise?
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We for sure won't be drafting later than 12. If we do it goes to Clev. There are going to be a lot of really bad teams next year, if we stay about the same we will most likely fall to a lower pick than this year. Another year and Cousins should see continued improvement which is most likely good for a few more wins.
I'm trying to help you.
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
I'm trying to help you.
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
You can be patient and dissapointed in these moves. Moves that don't improve our teams glaring needs or maximize assets should be criticized. Frankly, the post maloof honeymoon thing is already getting old. If these moves were made by the old regime, there would be near universal negativity, because they aren't great moves. The only defense is that we need to wait and see because they have to have a plan, right?
Wrong. They may and everyone on this board hopes they do. But many times, front offices and owners don't which is how you get mediocre to bad teams. We have rookie front office people so there is nothing to base their performance on but what's happened this month. Which isn't good.
I'm trying to help you.
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
I'm trying to help you.
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
PDA does not believe Tyreke is an $11M talent/fit. Backed against the wall by Pelicans, he gets a tall pass first PG.
PDA thinks Landry is a value proposition and provides trade flexibility, very familiar with coach and his system... so he picks him up for ordinary big man money.
PDA draws the line for Iggy when he realizes the price is out of reach... pulls the plug on the deal realizing he's being played.
Some people who disagree on his Tyreke Evans assessment have gone completely over the cliff with hysteria at every move that does not land Lebron.
It is ludicrous. There is a massive negative hysteria that is plain unpleasant. My comment earlier in this thread is just a rehash of the insane vitriol laid at PDA's feet by children who just won't stop banging their spoon on the high chair.
I am just trying to help you see it
You don't see those of us questioning these moves insulting those who can't the issues we're creating, yet we easily could. But we're used to it. Criticize the Maloofs, you're a crybaby. Criticize Smart, crybaby. Criticize trading Beno/#7 for Salmons/Jimmer, crybaby. Criticize signing Hayes, crybaby. Criticize signing Brooks, crybaby. Criticize signing Outlaw, crybaby. Yet, how'd that all turn out?
By throwing out sarcasm and strawmen? I'm sorry, but if you're trying to help, that's not going to have the effect you intended.
See, this is a strawman. Nobody is arguing that we ought to land LeBron, or anything like him. We are looking, however, to get the best available players to fill out the needs in our roster given that we had a decently large and flexible amount of cap space. We are arguing against moves that appear to not make sense given the holes we know this team has. And we're doing it, for the most part, without calling you a #dumdumpoopyhead.
I've got this really great facial expression. It quietly says "You must understand that you're the one who is out of line here, right?" I'm giving it to you right now.
See, this is a strawman. Nobody is arguing that we ought to land LeBron, or anything like him. We are looking, however, to get the best available players to fill out the needs in our roster given that we had a decently large and flexible amount of cap space. We are arguing against moves that appear to not make sense given the holes we know this team has. And we're doing it, for the most part, without calling you a #dumdumpoopyhead.
I've got this really great facial expression. It quietly says "You must understand that you're the one who is out of line here, right?" I'm giving it to you right now.
Hmm, so maybe I'm not a PDA basher at all, just a fan of the Kings who disagrees with his first two personnel decisions and is grading him on the same scale as everyone else rather than granting him a free pass to do whatever he wants free of criticism until he "learns the job"? Both of these moves have implications which will last for the next 4 years at minimum, and probably long after that. As for the other part... all of the internet is at your fingertips.
Last season: The Kings were so lacking in post scoring at the 2nd unit that they dumped the ball to Chuck Hayes, yes Hayes, and had him work in the post.
Coming season: Instead of Hayes, we have Landry doing the scoring. Yes, much better.
Last season: The Kings' backup PG was... no one!
This season: IT will evolve into a fantastic spark plug off the bench, a role that we all know he's tailored for.
Last season: The Kings is one of the worst passing team in the NBA.
This season: One of the top assist man in the league is now here and the ball hogs look to be on their way out.
Last season: No one could play PnR with Cousins. IT was mildly effective in it but still.
This season: Greivis Vasquez, for all his flaws, Vasquez can play PnR in his sleep.
Last season: Too many shoot-first guards. Have to look hard to find a guard who isn't a ball dominant guy.
Coming season: The log jam seems to be slowly but surely being cleared out, Reke replaced by two guys who isn't as ball dominant as he is. Need to wait and see what they do with Jimmer/Thorton.
Last season: The Kings are a team with too many ball hogs. They are guard dominated and shoot it but cannot defend, rebound, or pass.
This season: The Kings are a more balanced team. Defending and rebounding are the remaining question marks, but Malone is known as a coach who can turn a bad defensive team into a good one by turning poor defenders into good defenders. So we'll see if he can work his magic here.
So yes, things have improved. There are still some holes here of course, but I think we are slowly moving out of mediocrity. This rebuilt is not going to be finished in one summer.
Coming season: Instead of Hayes, we have Landry doing the scoring. Yes, much better.
Last season: The Kings' backup PG was... no one!
This season: IT will evolve into a fantastic spark plug off the bench, a role that we all know he's tailored for.
Last season: The Kings is one of the worst passing team in the NBA.
This season: One of the top assist man in the league is now here and the ball hogs look to be on their way out.
Last season: No one could play PnR with Cousins. IT was mildly effective in it but still.
This season: Greivis Vasquez, for all his flaws, Vasquez can play PnR in his sleep.
Last season: Too many shoot-first guards. Have to look hard to find a guard who isn't a ball dominant guy.
Coming season: The log jam seems to be slowly but surely being cleared out, Reke replaced by two guys who isn't as ball dominant as he is. Need to wait and see what they do with Jimmer/Thorton.
Last season: The Kings are a team with too many ball hogs. They are guard dominated and shoot it but cannot defend, rebound, or pass.
This season: The Kings are a more balanced team. Defending and rebounding are the remaining question marks, but Malone is known as a coach who can turn a bad defensive team into a good one by turning poor defenders into good defenders. So we'll see if he can work his magic here.
So yes, things have improved. There are still some holes here of course, but I think we are slowly moving out of mediocrity. This rebuilt is not going to be finished in one summer.
i appreciate your perspective and acumen. it's representative of the kind of urgency (read: not impatience) that i think is requisite for this team to turn around the direction of the franchise, before DMC gets the itch to move on. i'm not up for another half-decade of losing basketball, and i'm quite sure demarcus isn't, either...
I'll try and provide a constructive point of view on why I'm satisfied with whats happened so far.
This team was a complete mess the last few years. Horrible defensive team, no offensive structure, bad ball and player movement, and pieces that just didnt fit together. Was Evans the main guy or was it Cousins? Did we really have a true PG on the team, or score first guys that we were forced to play there? There was no defensive presence down low outside of the occasional DMC charge drawn, and we have a lot of poor contracts that are around for another 2 years.
As you can see, lots of questions that need answers, and they arent going to be solved in 8 days. But if you look closely you can see the long term vision. They new regime quickly identified they needed to build the team around Cousins. In order to do that they wanted better passing and shooting to space the floor. Step 1, draft McLemore. Step 2, bring back Evans at 7-9 mil/year, once they saw that wasnt happening they moved on because they didnt see him fitting well enough with a Cousins centered offense to pay 11 mil. Step 3 was start putting together a team that "fits" better, apparently their choice was to bring in Calderon (46% 3pt last year and a good passer) and Iggy (team guy, good passer and defender at the SF). Neither guy wanted to come here, not that big of a surprise, their both older and want to win now. So they went with their backup plan and acquired Vazquez, a 6'6" pass first PG who's gotten better every year of his career. Is he the long term solution at PG? Perhaps not, but this team needs to get better in small steps by constructing a team that fits better so they can eventually attract bigger names. Next they bring in Landry, is he perfect to start next to Cousins? No, but he's perfect to eventually be a key member of the 2nd unit, my guess is he only sees 5-10 minutes on the floor with Cousins but still ends up playing 25 mpg leading the bench unit with IT.
Not every problem is going to be solved immediately. And not every move right now is going to address immediate needs. Things were so shi**y here that its going to take a lot of maneuvering before things are complete. These are just the first steps. I'm sure there will be another move to pick up a new SF and probably move one of our existing bigs. I'm beginning to doubt Salmons gets amnestied just because his expiring contract is such an asset, especially nearer to the trade deadline. I just have a problem with people being so upset at what are only the first steps in the process. Rome wasnt built in a day.
And finally let me address the theme that "if they want to be a defensive team why did they let their best defender go?" Well, having that good defender on your team last year did nothing for the team D, and looking the Warriors defensive numbers last year during the regular season the were 4th in opponents FG%, 7th in opponent 3pt%, 1st in defensive rebound rate, without Bogut hurt for most of the year and with a bunch of guys you would consider sub par individual defenders. While I'm sure they would love great individual defenders, I think it will much more important for Malone to get them to play better and smarter TEAM D, which he is capable of doing.
So my thoughts are just, calm down a second, think of the bigger picture a year or 2 down the road, and get ready to see McLemore and McCallum throw down some crazy dunks in the summer league.
This team was a complete mess the last few years. Horrible defensive team, no offensive structure, bad ball and player movement, and pieces that just didnt fit together. Was Evans the main guy or was it Cousins? Did we really have a true PG on the team, or score first guys that we were forced to play there? There was no defensive presence down low outside of the occasional DMC charge drawn, and we have a lot of poor contracts that are around for another 2 years.
As you can see, lots of questions that need answers, and they arent going to be solved in 8 days. But if you look closely you can see the long term vision. They new regime quickly identified they needed to build the team around Cousins. In order to do that they wanted better passing and shooting to space the floor. Step 1, draft McLemore. Step 2, bring back Evans at 7-9 mil/year, once they saw that wasnt happening they moved on because they didnt see him fitting well enough with a Cousins centered offense to pay 11 mil. Step 3 was start putting together a team that "fits" better, apparently their choice was to bring in Calderon (46% 3pt last year and a good passer) and Iggy (team guy, good passer and defender at the SF). Neither guy wanted to come here, not that big of a surprise, their both older and want to win now. So they went with their backup plan and acquired Vazquez, a 6'6" pass first PG who's gotten better every year of his career. Is he the long term solution at PG? Perhaps not, but this team needs to get better in small steps by constructing a team that fits better so they can eventually attract bigger names. Next they bring in Landry, is he perfect to start next to Cousins? No, but he's perfect to eventually be a key member of the 2nd unit, my guess is he only sees 5-10 minutes on the floor with Cousins but still ends up playing 25 mpg leading the bench unit with IT.
Not every problem is going to be solved immediately. And not every move right now is going to address immediate needs. Things were so shi**y here that its going to take a lot of maneuvering before things are complete. These are just the first steps. I'm sure there will be another move to pick up a new SF and probably move one of our existing bigs. I'm beginning to doubt Salmons gets amnestied just because his expiring contract is such an asset, especially nearer to the trade deadline. I just have a problem with people being so upset at what are only the first steps in the process. Rome wasnt built in a day.
And finally let me address the theme that "if they want to be a defensive team why did they let their best defender go?" Well, having that good defender on your team last year did nothing for the team D, and looking the Warriors defensive numbers last year during the regular season the were 4th in opponents FG%, 7th in opponent 3pt%, 1st in defensive rebound rate, without Bogut hurt for most of the year and with a bunch of guys you would consider sub par individual defenders. While I'm sure they would love great individual defenders, I think it will much more important for Malone to get them to play better and smarter TEAM D, which he is capable of doing.
So my thoughts are just, calm down a second, think of the bigger picture a year or 2 down the road, and get ready to see McLemore and McCallum throw down some crazy dunks in the summer league.
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