Playoffs 2013 - East Semis: (1) Heat vs (5) Bulls
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Same here. On a side note, Nate Robinson is like an exact replica of Isaiah Thomas (or rather the other way around), with more NBA experience. Tough, feisty scorer who takes some bad shots and makes some unbelievable plays. Only difference is Thibs yells at him for his bad shots (and reportedly Nate yelled back 
) Pretty much like a mini-JR Smith. On defense he was a huge liability, and the Bulls had to go with Jimmy Butler on Deron Williams for most of the game after Robinson got torched. That resulted in a lot of mismatches on the perimeter, guys scrambling around to cover for messed up rotations, and it pretty much led to the Nets being able to climb back into the game. Had Johnson been healthy or Wallace a better perimeter shooter I think the Bulls would have lost. And mind you, this is the Bulls we're talking about - one of the best defensive teams in the league.
) Pretty much like a mini-JR Smith. On defense he was a huge liability, and the Bulls had to go with Jimmy Butler on Deron Williams for most of the game after Robinson got torched. That resulted in a lot of mismatches on the perimeter, guys scrambling around to cover for messed up rotations, and it pretty much led to the Nets being able to climb back into the game. Had Johnson been healthy or Wallace a better perimeter shooter I think the Bulls would have lost. And mind you, this is the Bulls we're talking about - one of the best defensive teams in the league.
I love watching the Bulls play. They kicked the *$$ of the more talented Nets, and now they have Miami down 0-1 with a depleted roster. Robinson is playing fantastic. He's a pressure breaker, which is something that just isn't talked about. Barea did the same thing against Miami when the Mavs won the championship. The little quick guys are give Miami fits. If you play against a pressure defense like Miami, you'd better have a pressure breaker; otherwise you have zero chance.
If the Bulls get Rose back next year, and they can get remotely healthy with the rest of their roster, they are going to be head and shoulders better than Miami.
As for the comparison of Nate and IT, IT is a better passer. And yes, Nate does show that the little ultra-quick man can be extremely valuable in the playoffs.
If the Bulls get Rose back next year, and they can get remotely healthy with the rest of their roster, they are going to be head and shoulders better than Miami.
As for the comparison of Nate and IT, IT is a better passer. And yes, Nate does show that the little ultra-quick man can be extremely valuable in the playoffs.
Here's the deal though. I've never thought that IT isn't valuable. It's just that you don't build a team around the guy or treat him as your 2nd or 3rd best offensive player. Nate Robinson has not improved or changed over the last few years and has still bounced around the league despite being valuable for both the Knicks and the Celtics. He's doing a fantastic job in this year's playoffs, but again, he's theoretically the 3rd PG behind Rose and Hinrich. Barea comes off the bench for the Wolves, and was not one of Dallas' main offensive options. Same with Boykins in the past. I think it's reasonable to conclude from this that such players are to be treated as offensive sparks off the bench, not going anything beyond a 6th man role. The reason why Robinson is being so successful is because Rose and Deng are out. Now he becomes the offense. And the Bulls get away with it because they do such a good job on the other end of the court that they don't need a super good flowing or reliable offense.
There can always be new precedent set, but I prefer to stick with what the majority of teams have done over the years.
There can always be new precedent set, but I prefer to stick with what the majority of teams have done over the years.
indeed. heat were rusty. they got embarrassed out there. my guess is that they'll recalibrate and run off four in a row. lebron's season has been too for-the-ages to come up short now. he'll flip the switch on a bulls team that probably doesn't have a whole lot left in the tank without rose, deng, and hinrich. i'd love to see the bulls continue to make him work for it, though. they might be able to snag another win in the series, likely at home. the heat wouldn't be happy about going six games against such a depleted team...
Would I "build the team around" IT? No. Would I keep him as a valuable piece? Absolutely. The Bulls didn't "get away with it" - they NEED Nate to win. If Nate weren't there, they'd be SOL and out of the playoffs by now. They didn't win despite him, they won because of him. Same with Dallas and Barea. No way in hell do they beat Miami without Barea. Look, you could take Kidd out of the Dallas-Miami series, I bet Dallas still wins. You take Barea out, they lose, no question in my mind. You take Hinrich out of the Chicago-Nets series and keep Nate in, Chicago wins. You take Nate out and Hinrich in, they lose. (And that's no knock on Hinrich, who I like). The point is, that the little quick guy can be very valuable in the arsenal and oftentimes more valuable than the bigger players who get the pub. Take it a step further: Who do you want to bring the ball up floor against Miami - IT or Tyreke? Sometimes the little guy is far better at some things than the bigger guy.
And back to the who to build the team around issue, the feeling seems to be that it's got to be Cousins and Tyreke, because, well, that's all we've got, and they are stars, or so that's what we tell ourselves over and over. That remains to be seen. Just because you desperately want somebody to build the team around doesn't mean that they are in fact guys who you should build your team around. It's going to be very interesting to see who in fact the new ownership group builds around. We'll see how it plays out. You may be certain that Tyreke and Cousins are the cornerstones of the franchise. I'm not. I bet at least one of them is gone over the next couple of years.
And back to the who to build the team around issue, the feeling seems to be that it's got to be Cousins and Tyreke, because, well, that's all we've got, and they are stars, or so that's what we tell ourselves over and over. That remains to be seen. Just because you desperately want somebody to build the team around doesn't mean that they are in fact guys who you should build your team around. It's going to be very interesting to see who in fact the new ownership group builds around. We'll see how it plays out. You may be certain that Tyreke and Cousins are the cornerstones of the franchise. I'm not. I bet at least one of them is gone over the next couple of years.
I've done this before and I'm not trying to make a big deal about it, but I always find it so interesting how overblown Barea's performance was during that series. He sucked in the first 4 games of a 6 game series. He got hot the last two and was a factor in those wins but people talk about him like he was out of this world. The reality is that his performance is exactly why you don't make a guy like IT a focus of a team. When he can get hot and play change of pace minutes, he can absolutely contribute to wins. But you rely on him consistently as one of your top 1-2 players and you will consistently lose.
What I meant by "they get away with it" is that they have been able to pull out wins because of their defense which has made up for an offense that isn't necessarily the best. To be honest I don't disagree with most of what you have said - IT/Nate are valuable pieces to have. But you find certain times to use them, and based on the history of the NBA such times don't come around very often. Sometimes the little guy is far better at some things than the bigger guy, yet 95% or more of championships are won without these little guys. Sdballer seems to have summed it up nicely: "When he can get hot and play change of pace minutes, he can absolutely contribute to wins. But you rely on him consistently as one of your top 1-2 players and you will consistently lose."
Point is, with Cousins, Tyreke and MT on the team IT should not be getting 15 shots a game. Even if you disagree that Tyreke or Cousins are stars it's fine, just replace them with the stars that should be in their place (but understand where those who believe they are our stars are coming from). Nor should we treat IT as a long-term solution at PG if we want to win a championship. Keeping him around as a valuable change of pace guy or even one of our main guys off the bench is perfectly fine.
Point is, with Cousins, Tyreke and MT on the team IT should not be getting 15 shots a game. Even if you disagree that Tyreke or Cousins are stars it's fine, just replace them with the stars that should be in their place (but understand where those who believe they are our stars are coming from). Nor should we treat IT as a long-term solution at PG if we want to win a championship. Keeping him around as a valuable change of pace guy or even one of our main guys off the bench is perfectly fine.
i'm not convinced that there are very many fans at kf.com who actually believe demarcus cousins and tyreke evans to be active stars. most are banking on the potential of these two players to become stars, particularly given significantly improved franchise conditions. it has always struck me as disingenuous to characterize supporters of cousins and evans as people who believe cousins and evans to be the kings "star" talents, as if we're somehow jumping the gun. personally, i believe they are the kings' top two individual talents, who should be recognized as the highest developmental priorities on the team, and who may very well become all-star level talents in the coming seasons...
Yes. I remember being so excited after Game 1 of that series, watching AI step over Lue and silence that LA crowd. What a letdown. I can see the Heat doing the same thing to this Bulls team, certainly. However, I do believe this Bulls team matches up way better with Miami than Philly did that year with the Lakers.
Hopefully, Chicago can get a tad healthier game by game and defend their home court. But if Miami "turns it on," it's definitely over.
Hopefully, Chicago can get a tad healthier game by game and defend their home court. But if Miami "turns it on," it's definitely over.
Totally wrong. I don't know what you were watching but it wasn't Barea. If you recall correctly, you'll remember that Miami actually had to change up their D because Barea was ripping them so badly. Anytime you have to compensate for a pg and alter your defense significanty, you've done your job as pg because you open that many more opportunities for your teamates. The guy that sucked in that series was Kidd. He should have been charged admission for being a spectator in that series. He hung around the periphery, passed a few balls on the periphery and that was about it. Barea, on the other hand, was constantly penetrating the Miami D.
PS
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/...nate-robinson-bulls-vs-heat-2013-nba-playoffs
And speaking of changing the game, it looks like LBJ might be guarding Robinson if this article is correct. Yeah, Robinson sucks so much you have to put the best player in the world on him. You don't have LBJ guarding Robinson unless you are really worried about the effect of Robinson. Personally, I'd love to see it. Put LBJ about 25-30 feet from the basketet guarding Robinson and the rest of the Bulls will be oh so happy. And from what I've seen of Robinson, he'll be happy too. I hope the Heat do this. It would be very entertaining.
PS
http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/...nate-robinson-bulls-vs-heat-2013-nba-playoffs
And speaking of changing the game, it looks like LBJ might be guarding Robinson if this article is correct. Yeah, Robinson sucks so much you have to put the best player in the world on him. You don't have LBJ guarding Robinson unless you are really worried about the effect of Robinson. Personally, I'd love to see it. Put LBJ about 25-30 feet from the basketet guarding Robinson and the rest of the Bulls will be oh so happy. And from what I've seen of Robinson, he'll be happy too. I hope the Heat do this. It would be very entertaining.
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I never understand when someone argues about facts that can easily be proved with just a couple minutes of research. Here is Barea's performance in that series:
Game 1: 18 minutes, 1-8 shooting (0-0 3s), 2 pts, 0 ast, -6 +/-
Game 2: 14 minutes, 2-7 shooting (0-3 3s), 5 pts, 1 ast, -11 +/- (worst on team)
Game 3: 19 minutes, 2-8 shooting (1-5 3s), 6 pts, 1 ast, 4 to's, +3 +/-
Game 4: 21 minutes, 3-9 shooting (0-2 3s), 8 pts, 4 ast, -7 +/- (worst on team)
Game 5: 25 minutes, 6-11 shooting (4-5 3s), 17 pts, 5 ast, +4 +/- (only single digit of starters)
Game 6: 29 minutes, 7-12 shooting (1-3 3s), 15 pts, 5 ast, -7 +/-
Again, he had nice shooting games the last 2 of the series but people forget how much he sucked the first 4 games while at the same time overblowing his impact the last 2.
Game 1: 18 minutes, 1-8 shooting (0-0 3s), 2 pts, 0 ast, -6 +/-
Game 2: 14 minutes, 2-7 shooting (0-3 3s), 5 pts, 1 ast, -11 +/- (worst on team)
Game 3: 19 minutes, 2-8 shooting (1-5 3s), 6 pts, 1 ast, 4 to's, +3 +/-
Game 4: 21 minutes, 3-9 shooting (0-2 3s), 8 pts, 4 ast, -7 +/- (worst on team)
Game 5: 25 minutes, 6-11 shooting (4-5 3s), 17 pts, 5 ast, +4 +/- (only single digit of starters)
Game 6: 29 minutes, 7-12 shooting (1-3 3s), 15 pts, 5 ast, -7 +/-
Again, he had nice shooting games the last 2 of the series but people forget how much he sucked the first 4 games while at the same time overblowing his impact the last 2.
Lol ... you put LBJ on Nate Robinson because he's the only offense the Bulls have at the moment. If Nate Robinson is so great how come he's a 3rd string PG on the Bulls? How come the Knicks never made the playoffs with him? How come he's in such high demand that his salary is barely over a million? How come the Thunder waived him? How come he had such limited minutes in the playoffs with the Celtics? How come the Celtics were willing to trade him despite him being such a great performer for them? Remember, he helped them win game 6 of the ECF! Superstar!
The guy plays well for ONE playoff series and a couple other games where he has the green light on offense and you ignore the "impact" that he's had on all his other teams thus far and anoint him as some sort of championship superstar. That is a complete joke.
The guy plays well for ONE playoff series and a couple other games where he has the green light on offense and you ignore the "impact" that he's had on all his other teams thus far and anoint him as some sort of championship superstar. That is a complete joke.
Well ... I don't doubt that. But I have no issue with it because to be honest I am similarly aggressively pursuing this argument because of the obvious comparison to a certain diminutive kings tweener guard
for the record, i like nate robinson just fine. he's a useful role player who has the ability to step up off the bench or in the absence of superior talents. but he's never been a front line player, nor will he ever be a front line player. isaiah thomas' career trajectory will likely take a similar journeyman's path, though i'd be happy if he simply remained a king in a wholly suitable 6th man role...
Thank you, Nazr Mohammed.
the Bulls had been doing well to have avoided such a game thus far, but at some point it had to happen. the talent discrepancy is too large with all the injury trouble the Bulls are facing and even if healthy, the Heat would likely have beat them anyway. nice of you to have made this somewhat of an interesting series, Bulls. now get home and get healthy to attack next year again, please.