Go Back to Outscoring Other Teams
- Thread starter ppine
- Start date
Well that was the noise coming out of training camp, but as you say, the evidence was to the contrary. Having said that, you've got to give it time, everyone knows the Triangle is supposed to encourage ball movement and spacing and we have to be the worst team in the league in both them categories.
Smart in pre-season quote
In other words "ISO! ISO!" and the "space," well come on, we know that hasn't happened.
I just don't think this team is mentally mature enough, or savvy enough to run a strict system, you get the odd "play" which is usually someone curling off a screen for a brick, but generally it's one pass to a big, one pass to a guard then ISO. Smart isn't strict enough, if someone deviates from the system BENCH them. I don't care who it is, thats how people learn, if you want to stay on the court, we're running this system.
I can think of any "ISO" heavy teams recently apart from maybe the Hawks, or Miami pre Lebron with Wade, but at least they got the ball to the players who fit that system.
We've ISO'd out for JT, James Johnson basically everyone. It should be ISO Tyreke and get out of the way or get Cuz in the post/high post and get out the way. If thats what they're mentally read for then commit to it. Otherwise it just becomes a complete mess.
Smart in pre-season quote
In other words "ISO! ISO!" and the "space," well come on, we know that hasn't happened.
I just don't think this team is mentally mature enough, or savvy enough to run a strict system, you get the odd "play" which is usually someone curling off a screen for a brick, but generally it's one pass to a big, one pass to a guard then ISO. Smart isn't strict enough, if someone deviates from the system BENCH them. I don't care who it is, thats how people learn, if you want to stay on the court, we're running this system.
I can think of any "ISO" heavy teams recently apart from maybe the Hawks, or Miami pre Lebron with Wade, but at least they got the ball to the players who fit that system.
We've ISO'd out for JT, James Johnson basically everyone. It should be ISO Tyreke and get out of the way or get Cuz in the post/high post and get out the way. If thats what they're mentally read for then commit to it. Otherwise it just becomes a complete mess.
The thing is we saw some sort of halfcourt offense and set plays being run when Westphal was coach. Every game we'd have a good 3-4 plays where Cuz would find a cutting Beno/Tyreke. Just watch this video and look at the difference in spacing that we had back then.
Remember when we had Jermaine Taylor? We'd run this alley oop play for him to start every single game.
We'd see high-low action with Cuz and Dalembert. And back then Tyreke was finding guys for wide open 3s several times a game, but the defenses collapsed on him less back then. That was the season where things were looking real good towards the end - we solved our frontcourt mess and got a good backcourt mate for Tyreke in MT. Beno worked very well with Cuz and Evans too.
Then came the dreaded offseason together with the lockout. We didn't resign Dalembert, traded Beno away and acquired Salmons. Traded Omri too. Poof, there went our 3 point shooting. Reynolds said something in the Lakers game - that Salmons is a creative player, he needs to be allowed to be creative to be effective, that you can't just stick him in the corner and ask him to hit shots. Now to Reynolds credit, he got it absolutely right. The problem is, that's not what we needed. What we needed was a defender who would stay out of the way on offense, and just catch and shoot open 3s. Westphal for some reason, maybe due to the lack of training camp, decided to go with some "read and react" offensive system, and the guys were clueless going into the season. No one knew what their roles were anymore. And since then, we haven't had any halfcourt offense.
The point is: Evans and Cuz all showed that they could play in a slower halfcourt tempo. JT has come miles in terms of consistency and finishing around the rim since then. If they could run some sort of halfcourt offense then, there's no reason why they can't now. Also, the talent on the team has improved overall, at least on paper. Jeter/Darnell Jackson/Jon Brockman/Omri/Jermaine Taylor/Greene has been replaced by Brooks/Jimmer/TRob/Outlaw/Honeycutt. We may have lost some with Beno becoming Salmons and Dalembert becoming Hayes, but still ...
Edit: Dang, watching the highlights of Cuz passing I can't help but wonder if all Keith Smart did was mess up his development. Ask yourself honestly, which Cousins looks more impressive? The one running the offense, kicking it out of double teams you see there or the one who is always rumbling to the basket and throwing up funky shots that we see now? We never ever labelled Cuz a blackhole under Westphal, but nowadays he doesn't seem as willing a passer, especially in the first few games of the season.
Remember when we had Jermaine Taylor? We'd run this alley oop play for him to start every single game.
We'd see high-low action with Cuz and Dalembert. And back then Tyreke was finding guys for wide open 3s several times a game, but the defenses collapsed on him less back then. That was the season where things were looking real good towards the end - we solved our frontcourt mess and got a good backcourt mate for Tyreke in MT. Beno worked very well with Cuz and Evans too.
Then came the dreaded offseason together with the lockout. We didn't resign Dalembert, traded Beno away and acquired Salmons. Traded Omri too. Poof, there went our 3 point shooting. Reynolds said something in the Lakers game - that Salmons is a creative player, he needs to be allowed to be creative to be effective, that you can't just stick him in the corner and ask him to hit shots. Now to Reynolds credit, he got it absolutely right. The problem is, that's not what we needed. What we needed was a defender who would stay out of the way on offense, and just catch and shoot open 3s. Westphal for some reason, maybe due to the lack of training camp, decided to go with some "read and react" offensive system, and the guys were clueless going into the season. No one knew what their roles were anymore. And since then, we haven't had any halfcourt offense.
The point is: Evans and Cuz all showed that they could play in a slower halfcourt tempo. JT has come miles in terms of consistency and finishing around the rim since then. If they could run some sort of halfcourt offense then, there's no reason why they can't now. Also, the talent on the team has improved overall, at least on paper. Jeter/Darnell Jackson/Jon Brockman/Omri/Jermaine Taylor/Greene has been replaced by Brooks/Jimmer/TRob/Outlaw/Honeycutt. We may have lost some with Beno becoming Salmons and Dalembert becoming Hayes, but still ...
Edit: Dang, watching the highlights of Cuz passing I can't help but wonder if all Keith Smart did was mess up his development. Ask yourself honestly, which Cousins looks more impressive? The one running the offense, kicking it out of double teams you see there or the one who is always rumbling to the basket and throwing up funky shots that we see now? We never ever labelled Cuz a blackhole under Westphal, but nowadays he doesn't seem as willing a passer, especially in the first few games of the season.
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I only watched the first couple of minutes of that vid but the big difference is off the ball movement and spacing, like you said. The first pass is always to cuz down low, or at the top of the key now we're using him way more away from the basket at the high post, which is where he sometimes over-dribbles into traffic. The lack of outside threats doesn't help either but he should recognise the problems a lot earlier than he does.
Westphal didn't really run any strict sets his mantra was always "be creative." But at least he recognised that cuz is most effective down low, and how to get him there early. It's just a simple down screen mainly in that video
The emphasis is also on him to score a lot more now and be "the man" so he puts up a lot more shots.
Westphal didn't really run any strict sets his mantra was always "be creative." But at least he recognised that cuz is most effective down low, and how to get him there early. It's just a simple down screen mainly in that video
The emphasis is also on him to score a lot more now and be "the man" so he puts up a lot more shots.
I have no idea, the IQ of this team is exceptionally low as well. Beno might not be as "talented" as an Evans or as quick as a Brooks but he's a much more intelligent player, he's constantly in motion like Tony Parker is and most of Cuz's passes in that video end up with Beno. Same goes for Dalembert, he's much more savvy than JT, knows where he wants to go and goes early, I really like JT but he's your classic blue collar type player not great at anything just good at everything, movement wise though i don't think he's very clever.
God i can't believe we had Pooh Jeter, ugh.
God i can't believe we had Pooh Jeter, ugh.
ehhh.. Since we are doing hypothetical lineups.... First of all your lineup does not have outside shooting at all. It would make it tough for Rubio, Evans and Cousins to score.
I would have done something more on the lines of
C - Hawes
PF - Cousins
SF - Barnes
SG - MT
PG - Rubio
Barnes and MT spread the floor for Hawes and Cousins who both can step out and hit open shots and pass the ball as well. We wouldn't be the best defensive team in the NBA but we probably wouldn't be the worst either.
I would have done something more on the lines of
C - Hawes
PF - Cousins
SF - Barnes
SG - MT
PG - Rubio
Barnes and MT spread the floor for Hawes and Cousins who both can step out and hit open shots and pass the ball as well. We wouldn't be the best defensive team in the NBA but we probably wouldn't be the worst either.
Smart had the Kings push the ball against the Lakers to help neutralize their size and age. It worked. I was impressed by the games Hayes and Thompson had against Gasol and Howard. They won the mental warfare part of the game. The expressions on Kobe's face in the 4th quarter were priceless.
Lets hope the Kings keep the same intensity and pace against Utah.
Lets hope the Kings keep the same intensity and pace against Utah.
Not exactly. What we did was reach in a whole lot, forcing a bunch of turnovers but also resulting in a billion fouls. The Lakers shot themselves in the foot from the FT line. It's great when we can create turnovers and go racing the other way, but that isn't going to work on a reliable basis unless your team consists of two NBA all-defense perimeter defenders. Chuck Hayes himself said that part of the "credit" goes to the Lakers for not getting Dwight the ball more inside. Believe it or not, the win was as much about the Lakers playing badly as it was about us playing well, and their bad play was not entirely caused by our defense.
Mac,
I agree that the Lakers played poorly. Part of the reason is that the Kings pushed the ball, and played aggressive defense. They managed to frustrate the Lakers which is part of the key to beating them. Basketball is a very emotional game, one of confidence. The Kings managed to be more confident than the Lakers, no easy feat. The Kings have nothing to lose against quality teams and play loose. Playing middle of the road teams they get tense at the end like last night.
In the midst of sarcasm and naysayers, I would submit that the Kings scored over 100 points in the last 3 games. They won two, and lost one because they got tentative and lost their offense in the 4 in Utah. They should have won all three. There may some validity to this thread. We shall see.
I agree that the Lakers played poorly. Part of the reason is that the Kings pushed the ball, and played aggressive defense. They managed to frustrate the Lakers which is part of the key to beating them. Basketball is a very emotional game, one of confidence. The Kings managed to be more confident than the Lakers, no easy feat. The Kings have nothing to lose against quality teams and play loose. Playing middle of the road teams they get tense at the end like last night.
In the midst of sarcasm and naysayers, I would submit that the Kings scored over 100 points in the last 3 games. They won two, and lost one because they got tentative and lost their offense in the 4 in Utah. They should have won all three. There may some validity to this thread. We shall see.
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